Xanax to Valium crossover plan needed- finally got script

[[Ki...]]

!!!!!oh my God last night it all went to hell. Please tell me it comes together. The xanax wore off after 2 hours. Or less than that. I thought maybe taking valium in split doses might help because I saw other people doing that so I figured it was close enough to 12 hours I would try that. It did help a little. I took my 2 am dose and my 6 am dose but its like taking nothing. Im hoping it just means i have built up to where I can take a more normal instead of a microscopic dose but even my huge .5 dose at bedtime was GONE at 1 am. I dont know what to do. Im praying once the valium gets higher this will get better but right now this is as bad as at the beginning. Please tell me that this isnt a bad sign. It sounds like it is

[[...]]

!!!!!oh my God last night it all went to hell. Please tell me it comes together. The xanax wore off after 2 hours. Or less than that. I thought maybe taking valium in split doses might help because I saw other people doing that so I figured it was close enough to 12 hours I would try that. It did help a little. I took my 2 am dose and my 6 am dose but its like taking nothing. Im hoping it just means i have built up to where I can take a more normal instead of a microscopic dose but even my huge .5 dose at bedtime was GONE at 1 am. I dont know what to do. Im praying once the valium gets higher this will get better but right now this is as bad as at the beginning. Please tell me that this isnt a bad sign. It sounds like it is

 

Can you spell out exactly what your dosing was like yesterday?

[[Ki...]]

6 am .03x

Noon 1 mg valium

6pm .03x

A little late

Since I missed my noon dose I added it to my bedtime dose so .03 plus . 45 x

Woke up shaking just freaked took 1 mg valium

2 am .03x

6 am .03 x

I know now I will have to remove more x because I took 2 doses of v

It just scares the shell out of me that the x is only lasting like 2 hours no matter what the dose is now. I'm going to stay home and get this right today. This is horrible.

Oh and .1 mg ambien

[[Ki...]]

I'm really sorry I'm such a mess. I really appreciate all yall u are doing for me. I am going to stay home and get this right and pray this is just one of those things.....

[[...]]

6 am .03x

Noon 1 mg valium

6pm .03x

A little late

Since I missed my noon dose I added it to my bedtime dose so .03 plus . 45 x

Woke up shaking just freaked took 1 mg valium

2 am .03x

6 am .03 x

I know now I will have to remove more x because I took 2 doses of v

It just scares the shell out of me that the x is only lasting like 2 hours no matter what the dose is now. I'm going to stay home and get this right today. This is horrible.

 

I'd forget about the extra V.  It's okay if you just did it once and you seem to need it.

 

It looks like you took .6mg X and 2mg V.  What about the ambien?  And I thought your bedtime dose was above .5mg X?

 

.6mg X plus 2mg V is equivalent to 14mg V.  That is enough of a dose (actually .5mg higher than your dose), but the V swap percent is 15% of your original dose...kind of high, but the V will build over time.  This is about what Ashton suggests for swapping and she suggests 1-2 weeks before moving on to the next swap.

[[Ki...]]

I put the ambien in it was 1 mg.

I think I had a cortisol attack....Damn

My scale is not a Gemini it's a smartweigh I bet it's not good enough. It has tare and weights..I thought it was the right kind but it's not.

My nighttime dose had been higher but it was wearing off and that's when I made the 2 or 3 am dose, so to not increase...My daily total was to stay at .6125, and it had to be redistributed...a week before it was .625 but I got rid of some ambien. It seemed to be ok there and since xanax had no lag time I thought that was a good starting point.

I hope that made sense. I had no original dose to go by at first because I took stuff as needed

[[Ki...]]

Moos plan looks very doable and I understand the conversion thing now, and the crossover. Once I feel comfortable with a good starting point- and this may be it, I may have had a hormone or cortisol issue- but the xanax wearing off so fast was a major concern. If its something thats going to slim down as I get more valium in my system, I will just deal with it best I can and not drive. I knew it wouldnt be easy but I had hoped to keep working....

[[Ki...]]

Im printing that schedule out, buying a daily pill holder, cutting in advance and adhering to this schedule and setting alarms. Maybe that will prevent my dosage screw ups now. I would like to just dose valium once a day if that works the same- just less cutting, so all I need to do is add those numbers together and take it at night correct? Is that right? Or since my xanax wears off so wuick now is it better to divide it up until I get it built up enough? Its already wearing off.

[[Ki...]]

X needs to be dosed on its schedule and V on its own schedule.  So whatever X you did not replace gets dosed as usual.

 

You need to decide on definite doses and times and stick with them.  I am having trouble following what you are doing.  We went through all this a day or two ago.

 

I really think you should replace the ambien first.

 

I got down to .1 on that. Not sure when is a good time to just get rid of it. Any time is fine with me. I really thought I was adhering to it aside from my 2 screw ups but now I see I got the .625 and .6125 messed up giving me 2 sets of numbers. And now, I get to add in a 5 mg valium pill. So to get 1 mg I took the weight and multiplied by .20 to get one fifth of it. Did I get that right? It would be a first...

[[...]]

Alright here we goooo 

 

I've tried my best to take the doses and make the schedule.

 

Dose 4 and 5 ( evening and 2 am) will now be combined.

 

Kittybean's schedule on Xanax is now, currently

 

Dose 1  0.03125

 

Dose 2. 0.03125

 

Dose 3.  0.03125

 

Dose 4( now combined with dose 5) 0.5625

 

 

This is the pm I sent and I hope Sg or Builder or another math wizard will take a look and make sure I got the math right.

I triple checked.

Just sharing on the board for safety

 

I think maybe it can be adjusted to make the numbers more round. But I got a message from Kittybean that she now gets it, how it works:

 

 

 

COPY OF PM

 

 

 

So, now what we do.. We take half off of your dose of Xanax and replace it with Valium

 

So, instead of taking 0.03125 in the morning , for example..

That is 0.625 mgr of Valium.

 

But we cross gradually. So, ideally you'd take half of your Xanax dose in week one.

And then replace that other half with Valium equivalent.

 

So Xanax 0.01562 ( half of 0.3125)

PLUS

0.3125 Valium ( half of 0.625)

 

That is for week one .

You do this for a week.

 

Then week two, you do the same for your next dose.

 

Week three , do the some from your next dose.

 

And week four, next dose. But dose four is different, since it's more .

 

Your evening dose , dose numbers 4 and 5 , are going to be combined.

So that will be

0.53125 Xanax plus 0.03125 Xanax is 0.5625 total now for your evening dose.

 

0.5625 Xanax is equal to 11.25 mgr Valium.

 

So, for that dose it's different than the othe three:

You now take half of each too. Just like you did for the other doses.

 

This will come down to

0.28125 Xanax and replace the other half by Valium equivalent, which is 5.625 mgr .

 

Now...at this point you are halfway there. All your dose have been half crossed over and you should have enough build up in your system to cover all your inter dose by now.

 

Now the second stage of the plan is to cross over all the other halves of your doses.

 

So, what you're doing now...

 

Here is where you'll be at week 5 :

 

Dose 1 : you were taking 0.01562 Xanax and 0.3125 Valium

 

You now drop the Xanax for that dose and take 0.625 Valium ONLY.

You have now crossed over that dose completely. No more Xanax for dose 1.

 

A week later you do the some for dose 2 : all Valium 0.625

 

A week later you do the same for dose 3 : all Valium 0.625

 

The last week, week 8, you cross over dose 4

Instead of taking 0.28125 Xanax and 5.625 Valium.... You drop the Xanax and take the 11.25 mgr Valium only. No more Xanax.

 

You are now cross over properly and you can start tapering well.

 

Now, I'll go ahead and post this schedule on the thread so that someone can verify my math.

 

 

It seems quite hassle for how, but it's just for a few weeks. After that it's all Valium and it will be MUCh easier.

 

 

Do you get this so far?

 

The principle is :

You replace half on your dose of Xanax with the equivalent of Valium.

Then take that dose for a week.

 

Then do the same for you next dose,

And the next

And the next,

 

Now you've got all your doses half crossed over.

 

Then you replace the other halves, with week intervals , the sense way and drop the Xanax."

 

The idea here is good, but I have bolded two exchanges I see a problem with.  If KBB's dose is equivalent to 13.5mg V, which I think is about right, then 5.625mg V is 42% of her dose (if I'm reading this right).  I think making two exchanges this big will be hard.  The smaller they are the easier it will be.  Ashton is usually around 17%.  I'd go even smaller than that, if possible...why not make it easier.  I like to keep them below 5%.

[[...]]

X needs to be dosed on its schedule and V on its own schedule.  So whatever X you did not replace gets dosed as usual.

 

You need to decide on definite doses and times and stick with them.  I am having trouble following what you are doing.  We went through all this a day or two ago.

 

I really think you should replace the ambien first.

 

I got down to .1 on that. Not sure when is a good time to just get rid of it. Any time is fine with me. I really thought I was adhering to it aside from my 2 screw ups but now I see I got the .625 and .6125 messed up giving me 2 sets of numbers. And now, I get to add in a 5 mg valium pill. So to get 1 mg I took the weight and multiplied by .20 to get one fifth of it. Did I get that right? It would be a first...

 

You need to replace the ambien with V.  And that should be done first.  What was your ambien dose?

[[Ki...]]

Ah. Ok, I see. I follow the crossover stuff now and this helps to see it in print- I just still have trouble with the specific numbers. Thank you!

Ambien dose was 1 mg last night.  Could one of my issues be taking my ambien dose down from 2.5 back in Dec- maybe thats a little bit of the problem... Not to mention the ambien pill is so tiny Im sure the weight is off. Crumbs dont register and I bet they count ...

[[Ki...]]

Since Im not sleeping much anyway I guess now is a good time to throw out the ambien. Im going to be safe and say ambien was 1.5 even though its a little less-  Stupid scale. Taking A out of it will make it easier! SG had posted earlier in this thread to replace with the valium so I will do that tonight.

My pill weight for the 5 mg V is 130 so to get 1 mg Im just dividing by 5 and getting .026 in weight. Part of my confusion is weight to mg...  I will add in the valium conversion for the ambien tonight and get rid of that stuff. I am going with 1.5 as the ambien dose- I see where I got confused, 1 mg and the weight conversion. As usual- my bad. Stupid mistake.

[[Mo...]]

I'm reading all the math and posts and I can't really make anything of it right now

( woken up super duper shaky and dizzy).

I'll take a look when I can use my brain again .

Sorry about that.

I hope thing.s calm down today for you Kittybean...

[[Ki...]]

Yall were right I was messing up my numbers with the ambien by mixing up weights and dose. Its 1.5 g- dose, not weight. I think I have done this a few times. Poor SG pointed it out too and I did it again. Damn.

I hope things go better for you too Moo.

[[...]]

Ah. Ok, I see. I follow the crossover stuff now and this helps to see it in print- I just still have trouble with the specific numbers. Thank you!

Ambien dose was 1 mg last night.  Could one of my issues be taking my ambien dose down from 2.5 back in Dec- maybe thats a little bit of the problem... Not to mention the ambien pill is so tiny Im sure the weight is off. Crumbs dont register and I bet they count ...

 

Yes!!  Reducing ambien from 2.5mg to 1.5mg when your dose was 13.5mg V is a 4% cut.  That's part of the problem.

 

Since Im not sleeping much anyway I guess now is a good time to throw out the ambien. Im going to be safe and say ambien was 1.5 even though its a little less-  Stupid scale. Taking A out of it will make it easier! SG had posted earlier in this thread to replace with the valium so I will do that tonight.

My pill weight for the 5 mg V is 130 so to get 1 mg Im just dividing by 5 and getting .026 in weight. Part of my confusion is weight to mg...  I will add in the valium conversion for the ambien tonight and get rid of that stuff. I am going with 1.5 as the ambien dose- I see where I got confused, 1 mg and the weight conversion. As usual- my bad. Stupid mistake.

 

I wouldn't do that.  You are not ready to swap in more V yet since you just got started on the first swap.  It needs time to build up.

[[Mo...]]

Ah. Ok, I see. I follow the crossover stuff now and this helps to see it in print- I just still have trouble with the specific numbers. Thank you!

Ambien dose was 1 mg last night.  Could one of my issues be taking my ambien dose down from 2.5 back in Dec- maybe thats a little bit of the problem... Not to mention the ambien pill is so tiny Im sure the weight is off. Crumbs dont register and I bet they count ...

 

Yes!!  Reducing ambien from 2.5mg to 1.5mg when your dose was 13.5mg V is a 4% cut.  That's part of the problem.

 

Since Im not sleeping much anyway I guess now is a good time to throw out the ambien. Im going to be safe and say ambien was 1.5 even though its a little less-  Stupid scale. Taking A out of it will make it easier! SG had posted earlier in this thread to replace with the valium so I will do that tonight.

My pill weight for the 5 mg V is 130 so to get 1 mg Im just dividing by 5 and getting .026 in weight. Part of my confusion is weight to mg...  I will add in the valium conversion for the ambien tonight and get rid of that stuff. I am going with 1.5 as the ambien dose- I see where I got confused, 1 mg and the weight conversion. As usual- my bad. Stupid mistake.

 

I wouldn't do that.  You are not ready to swap in more V yet since you just got started on the first swap.  It needs time to build up.

 

I agree with that, Kittybean.  It really does need more time to build up. I know you want to do this and that you may see that others ( including myself) have done a more rapid cross over. But I don't recommend it if you can avoid it.

I also doubled my dose during cross over due to talking WAY WAy too quick before that and thus got more Valium in my system in one hit than you will. We can't compare .

 

[[Ki...]]

Thank you all so much. I have never had to ask for help before- Im always the one who does the helping so if I seem like Im a little lost, thats why. I will give this a shot and see if I can do tonight without a mistake. Little steps.

[[Mo...]]

Thank you all so much. I have never had to ask for help before- Im always the one who does the helping so if I seem like Im a little lost, thats why. I will give this a shot and see if I can do tonight without a mistake. Little steps.

 

I used to be the same way.

It's okay to get help. We all need it. It's not weak, it's healthy .

 

Maybe you need a bit of TLC, too , this time around ...

[[Ki...]]

Everyone around this household is needy! But its ok, I do have a good support group. For that I am grateful. And for all the help Im getting here. Yesterday and start of today I had everything measured out and sitting there so no miscalculations, no lapses in time. Last night I licked the ambien tablet and put it back in its little pill holder so I might have got some of the coating off but nothing inside the pill. I took a benadryl and a calms forte ( homeopathic kids sleep stuff) and I probably got 4 hours of sleep which was most welcome. Im going to try to go to the store today.

Thank you all again for your help getting this started!

[[Mo...]]

Everyone around this household is needy! But its ok, I do have a good support group. For that I am grateful. And for all the help Im getting here. Yesterday and start of today I had everything measured out and sitting there so no miscalculations, no lapses in time. Last night I licked the ambien tablet and put it back in its little pill holder so I might have got some of the coating off but nothing inside the pill. I took a benadryl and a calms forte ( homeopathic kids sleep stuff) and I probably got 4 hours of sleep which was most welcome. Im going to try to go to the store today.

Thank you all again for your help getting this started!

 

I'm not sure if I saiD this before so forgive me if I repeat myself...

If you above trouble  sleeping you could also alternate your Benadryl with Unisom sleep tabs.

The 25 mgr tabs, with doxylamine. Half does the trick for most.

I've used it throughout my taper, it's a non habit forming , over the counter sleep aid. Antihistamine.

 

Glad you got a bit of sleep. That makes a difference.

[[Ki...]]

I got some unisom too, thank you for that!

I also got my 2 mg valium pills. The way the doc wrote the script out looks weird- like shes trying to taper me off in 2 months! I will call Monday and let the nurse know I would like to do a gradual slow taper and hope shes ok with extending it. Maybe by cutting off the ambien she will know Im not trying to " get more drugs". I hope so. If not, just in case, I have 120 .5 xanaxes hoarded and another refill for 60. Maybe in the worst case if she tries to get me off the valium too fast I can taper more slowly off the xanax and use the valium as a IDWD crutch. I really hope she goes for extending the valium but I guess its best to have a reserve plan. Im ok today- not a window but not a wave either, and this is only on 1 mg valium. I hope she listens to reason....

[[Mo...]]

I got some unisom too, thank you for that!

I also got my 2 mg valium pills. The way the doc wrote the script out looks weird- like shes trying to taper me off in 2 months! I will call Monday and let the nurse know I would like to do a gradual slow taper and hope shes ok with extending it. Maybe by cutting off the ambien she will know Im not trying to " get more drugs". I hope so. If not, just in case, I have 120 .5 xanaxes hoarded and another refill for 60. Maybe in the worst case if she tries to get me off the valium too fast I can taper more slowly off the xanax and use the valium as a IDWD crutch. I really hope she goes for extending the valium but I guess its best to have a reserve plan. Im ok today- not a window but not a wave either, and this is only on 1 mg valium. I hope she listens to reason....

 

It's not unusual to get a script for a month, Kittybean.

She even wrote a refill on it. That's a good sign.

Just because you only got 60 pills, or whatever amount, I forgot...doesn't mean she is only giving you that and then nothing. I had to follow up each month, too. They just refill the script after this one. At least that's the idea.

And it might be best to just make an appointment if possible and sit down with you doctor to make sure you are on the same page. So you can breathe and at least know and not worry about that on top. Stress isn't a good thing during a taper

Bring her you plan, maybe.

 

When your doc sees you got this all worked out and you stick to the plan and explain why...that your inter dose on Xanax is horrific and you switched to value due to the longer half life and make the taper smoother, because you have done your research and that's how people successfully can taper off...

 

Tell her maybe that you're absolutely set on getting the drugs out of you but that you need to do so on your own tempo, because the withdrawal effects are too much otherwise for your sensitive system.

 

Maybe say that you'll be more than happy to check in with her regularly and being your plan and where you're at, it helps for them to see you're going down in dose.

 

That you're not a drug seeker, that nobody has trouble prescribing you these mess so that it shouldn't make a difference to prescribe them further but just to taper off of them slowly. That that is the only reason you need them for w while longer.

 

I'd really try my best to be composed and let her know that you know what you're doing. That may be hard when they don't get it.

 

If only for you to be reassured,I'd sit down eith the doc and make sure she is going to prescribe you all the way down.

If not, I strongly urge you to find a new doctor after you cross over. Not all docs support crossing over so that at least she is helping with, with giving you Valium now.

 

IMO it's not a good idea to have to go back on Xanax and use Valium as a crutch. Successful taper hang on consistency and you'll only confuse your system further.

 

If your doctor isn't on board for the longer haul, I'd go find me a different one.

 

That's just my two cents on it all.

 

[[Ki...]]

I hope she just misunderstood me when I said I wanted to get off the xanax- she probably thought I was in a hurry to get off it. I will make an appointment and talk to her. The refill is only on the 2 mg pills, it looks like she wanted me on 10 mg for one month, 6 mg for two weeks then 4 mg for two weeks then refill. So she would have to change the script up anyway because it would read to go back up so Im sure she will work with me. Lord knows the xanax is a much uglier drug. I just got it just in case. Plus it was only $4.00 and I can save the rest for when I can have a bourbon again and flush the stuff down the toilet.

How long do I wait before bumping up a little on the valium? Im all for going up slow, maybe it wont make me as dog tired if I go up slowly...

Thank you so much Moo!!!

[[...]]

I hope she just misunderstood me when I said I wanted to get off the xanax- she probably thought I was in a hurry to get off it. I will make an appointment and talk to her. The refill is only on the 2 mg pills, it looks like she wanted me on 10 mg for one month, 6 mg for two weeks then 4 mg for two weeks then refill. So she would have to change the script up anyway because it would read to go back up so Im sure she will work with me. Lord knows the xanax is a much uglier drug. I just got it just in case. Plus it was only $4.00 and I can save the rest for when I can have a bourbon again and flush the stuff down the toilet.

How long do I wait before bumping up a little on the valium? Im all for going up slow, maybe it wont make me as dog tired if I go up slowly...

Thank you so much Moo!!!

 

How do you feel?  How has it gone so far?