Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[ga...]]

To be assured of uniformity and consistency, its best NOT to cut tablets to convert to liquid.

 

Use whole tablets, and then add the appropriate amounts of solvent (vodka or propylene glycol) and water.

 

You need 2ml of solvent for each mg of benzo.  Then you can add 8 parts water for a .1mg per ml solution, or 98 parts water for a .01mg per ml solution.

 

Agreed! You would not get a good result. Best to get the smallest tablet you can get and dissolve the whole thing.

[[ga...]]

The good news is my Homeopath says the odd feelings I'm having is the remedy causing die-off etc.

So that gives me some hope and understanding.

 

Infoshare.

Are you taking homeopathic remedies during your taper? I was on a lyme Protocol and had to stop it until I got off the benzo. Trying to detox from Lyme was to much with an already stressed out system from withdrawal.

 

Were you diagnosed with Lyme pre benzo use?

Yes. The Lyme Dx cam shortly after the benzo start, sadly.

Yes your'e right. I probably did stop when I was actually tapering. I tapered the bulk of it in 2013...15.

But  a good reminder. I would love to find a way/reason why I have trouble with liquid taper efforts.

Have you noticed improvements in your Lyme?

 

And Gardie I'm glad you have a good system that'w working for you. I need one soon. Hopefully I'll stabilize more. So many stressors this year and just recently.

But I'll get it.

Infoshare.

 

I find that's it's best to hold when I have a lot of stress. I hold through the holidays (Thanksgiving through New Years) every year. It's a busy time even without the anniversaries of tragic events I have all through those months. I hold. I try to keep my expectations low. I get through them.

 

Even when I'm holding, I'm stabilizing, and each day I'm one day closer to freedom. Each day we are all one day closer to freedom.

 

Gardie

[[in...]]

It's so all of September and into October I tried several times with the full 2 milligram tablet of Valium in  vodka water solution per builder math and it  Would hit me pretty hard after a few days.

Info share

[[ga...]]

It's so all of September and into October I tried several times with the full 2 milligram tablet of Valium in  vodka water solution per builder math and it  Would hit me pretty hard after a few days.

Info share

 

 

Dry cutting and dissolving doesn't seem like a good mix to me at all. Ashton-style cut and hold seems better. I don't know enough about dry micro-tapering to comment on it. Any other thoughts, anybody?

[[in...]]

What do I tell my dr. if I feel like I'm having anxiety at my regular 4mg total daily dose? It may be 'auto withdrawal' I fear.

Any ideas how to deal with this. I have late stage Lyme. Do I just need valium to function? Or would I feel better if I could cut?

 

Infoshare.

[[ga...]]

Infoshar, This is a difficult situation. I'm not sure I understand your situation well enough to give advice for you specifically. I will speak generally. Many things can make a taper difficult. If you finished tapering one drug and started another too soon. If you changed your dosing a lot. If you have an illness. If you have a lot of stress and little support or a psychiatric condition such as PTSD so that your cortisol levels are high. If you tapered too quickly and never stabilized from that.

 

In my situation, I was tolerant of my medication when I started my taper, so that was not a good thing. I then started to taper much too quickly. Things got even worse. Then my prescriber had me switching my sleep med every few days. I went to a new doctor who told me, "The brain likes predictability. Take the same dose of each medication the same way every day until you stabilize." I did. It took nearly a year. That is called a long hold. There is a long hold support group on Benzo Buddies. It was a great help to me. Now I am tapering again. I plan to do a short hold soon because I feel I'm getting unstable. I don't think rushing is a good idea unless a person is having a severe adverse reaction to a drug (like an allergy). These are my general thoughts. I think if you ask on the Withdrawal Support forum you may get more ideas.

 

As for what to tell your doctor, that depends on what you want from you doctor and how much you trust him. The most important thing people seem to need from their doctor is a script for a benzo. As long as you have your script, you have choices. Whatever you choose to say, make sure you don't lose your prescription.

 

Gardie

[[in...]]

Thanks Guardi yes I've been on 4 mg for over a year and wondering if that's a withdrawal though since it's under 5 mg but I did try the liquid microtape are several times in September like I said and they failed I didn't tape or anything it was an equivalent dose I my intention was to stabilize on the dose for a  2 weeks.  But withdrawal symptoms hit me regardless  Info share

[[ga...]]

Thanks Guardi yes I've been on 4 mg for over a year and wondering if that's a withdrawal though since it's under 5 mg but I did try the liquid microtape are several times in September like I said and they failed I didn't tape or anything it was an equivalent dose I my intention was to stabilize on the dose for a  2 weeks.  But withdrawal symptoms hit me regardless  Info share

 

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe you can't tolerate liquid at all or maybe you would eventually adjust to it. I wish I knew the answer.

 

Gardie

[[Ma...]]

Infoshar, This is a difficult situation. I'm not sure I understand your situation well enough to give advice for you specifically. I will speak generally. Many things can make a taper difficult. If you finished tapering one drug and started another too soon. If you changed your dosing a lot. If you have an illness. If you have a lot of stress and little support or a psychiatric condition such as PTSD so that your cortisol levels are high. If you tapered too quickly and never stabilized from that.

 

In my situation, I was tolerant of my medication when I started my taper, so that was not a good thing. I then started to taper much too quickly. Things got even worse. Then my prescriber had me switching my sleep med every few days. I went to a new doctor who told me, "The brain likes predictability. Take the same dose of each medication the same way every day until you stabilize." I did. It took nearly a year. That is called a long hold. There is a long hold support group on Benzo Buddies. It was a great help to me. Now I am tapering again. I plan to do a short hold soon because I feel I'm getting unstable. I don't think rushing is a good idea unless a person is having a severe adverse reaction to a drug (like an allergy). These are my general thoughts. I think if you ask on the Withdrawal Support forum you may get more ideas.

 

As for what to tell your doctor, that depends on what you want from you doctor and how much you trust him. The most important thing people seem to need from their doctor is a script for a benzo. As long as you have your script, you have choices. Whatever you choose to say, make sure you don't lose your prescription.

 

Gardie

 

Great advice Gardie

[[Ca...]]

Thanks Guardi yes I've been on 4 mg for over a year and wondering if that's a withdrawal though since it's under 5 mg but I did try the liquid microtape are several times in September like I said and they failed I didn't tape or anything it was an equivalent dose I my intention was to stabilize on the dose for a  2 weeks.  But withdrawal symptoms hit me regardless  Info share

Hi Info,

I cant realy add much to what Gard points out...

But I was wondering why you dont think it is wd because its under 5mg..??

 

I also had some unspecified problems with liquid, But I feel it possibly could have been the time I did it, or the speed that I changed..  (I was also low dose and holding)

More to the point, I know several people that went back and tried again with great success...

Maybe its worth considering (with caution), at some point down the track, Idk..??

 

Best wishes..

[[in...]]

Thanks Guardi yes I've been on 4 mg for over a year and wondering if that's a withdrawal though since it's under 5 mg but I did try the liquid microtape are several times in September like I said and they failed I didn't tape or anything it was an equivalent dose I my intention was to stabilize on the dose for a  2 weeks.  But withdrawal symptoms hit me regardless  Info share

Hi Info,

I cant realy add much to what Gard points out...

But I was wondering why you dont think it is wd because its under 5mg..??

 

I also had some unspecified problems with liquid, But I feel it possibly could have been the time I did it, or the speed that I changed..  (I was also low dose and holding)

More to the point, I know several people that went back and tried again with great success...

Maybe its worth considering (with caution), at some point down the track, Idk..??

 

Best wishes..

 

Hi Cantfly,

 

Everything was racing thru my head as my anxiety was tilt level and like a big depression. All possiblilities were on the table. Especially if I read something by someone else somewhere. I re started fish oil and it immediately started to soothe my cns, brain. Had been off it for 2 years. Yes you may be right, try try again. I really would love it to work. But Sep efforts seemed rough and really triggered up this depression---felt like a devastating trap, plus my housing situation is crappy and has been extremely stresssful year. But my health/energy/anxiety/non functioning/lyme disease has just put me under, had been slowly getting worse. By chance my neighbor mentioned fish oil for himself. I thought it couldn't hurt so I pulled it out of cupboard and tried some. It has really help stabilize me. Grateful!

 

So maybe in a bit I can try again. Or I'll have to learn Bob's DDMT method, more cumbersome. But I need a nice slow MT. I want to avoid the ongoing or returning symptoms I see over on withdrawal group. Where symptoms come back or linger for such long time. This stuff is such poison.

Thanks for asking.

Infoshare.

[[Ca...]]

Thanks Guardi yes I've been on 4 mg for over a year and wondering if that's a withdrawal though since it's under 5 mg but I did try the liquid microtape are several times in September like I said and they failed I didn't tape or anything it was an equivalent dose I my intention was to stabilize on the dose for a  2 weeks.  But withdrawal symptoms hit me regardless  Info share

Hi Info,

I cant realy add much to what Gard points out...

But I was wondering why you dont think it is wd because its under 5mg..??

 

I also had some unspecified problems with liquid, But I feel it possibly could have been the time I did it, or the speed that I changed..  (I was also low dose and holding)

More to the point, I know several people that went back and tried again with great success...

Maybe its worth considering (with caution), at some point down the track, Idk..??

 

Best wishes..

 

Hi Cantfly,

 

Everything was racing thru my head as my anxiety was tilt level and like a big depression. All possiblilities were on the table. Especially if I read something by someone else somewhere. I re started fish oil and it immediately started to soothe my cns, brain. Had been off it for 2 years. Yes you may be right, try try again. I really would love it to work. But Sep efforts seemed rough and really triggered up this depression---felt like a devastating trap, plus my housing situation is crappy and has been extremely stresssful year. But my health/energy/anxiety/non functioning/lyme disease has just put me under, had been slowly getting worse. By chance my neighbor mentioned fish oil for himself. I thought it couldn't hurt so I pulled it out of cupboard and tried some. It has really help stabilize me. Grateful!

 

So maybe in a bit I can try again. Or I'll have to learn Bob's DDMT method, more cumbersome. But I need a nice slow MT. I want to avoid the ongoing or returning symptoms I see over on withdrawal group. Where symptoms come back or linger for such long time. This stuff is such poison.

Thanks for asking.

Infoshare.

Yes, Wait till you feel the time is right to try the changes, -if thats what you decide..

I hope you find that stability, from which to slowly continue, soon... It sounds like your CNS has had a fair bit to contend with... I think a lot of us can find a taper speed that helps ease things quite a bit when we step off med.. -It just takes time and patience, -and prob a splash of luck...!!

Interesting about the fish oil... Can I ask if you would say you had a low body fat index..? I have been pondering the lipid aspect a bit...

I hope it continues to help...

 

Best wishes..

 

 

[[Bo...]]

Am I having an interdose withdrawal? I feel awful. 2mg valium x2 daily. It's not doing much. Is this withdrawal or tolerance, been 10 years since ativan, then valium in 2013. Or is it depression from valium and stressors?

 

Trying to hang on. Don't know what to do. Notice that my pdoc is leaving. I see her Mon. Everything is stress to me. I have late stage lyme.

 

Do I go higher on valium, or try yet again to taper the last 4mg? Will I feel better cutting it? Or worse? Should I go to hospital?

I don't know what's going on. Please pray.

 

Thanks in advance.

Infoshare.

 

Have you consider taking the two pills in one dose? I was also splitting my dose of 3.5mgs a day. 2mgs  first dose and 1.5mg some hours later. Since starting the dry taper method that bob helped me on, I take just one dose at around 4-5pm for the past week now and for some reason I feel much better. Yes I still have withdrawals but they are well tolerated as oppose to taking it twice a day. I guess my brain is being tricked thinkin its getting more valium cause i dose all at once. 4mgs is a very small dose so i really do not see the need to takin twice a day considering V has a long half life.

 

anyways good luck

 

[[in...]]

Yes, Wait till you feel the time is right to try the changes, -if thats what you decide..

I hope you find that stability, from which to slowly continue, soon... It sounds like your CNS has had a fair bit to contend with... I think a lot of us can find a taper speed that helps ease things quite a bit when we step off med.. -It just takes time and patience, -and prob a splash of luck...!!

Interesting about the fish oil... Can I ask if you would say you had a low body fat index..? I have been pondering the lipid aspect a bit...

I hope it continues to help...

 

Best wishes..

 

Cantfly, I wouldn't say I have a low body fat index. I workout, but I'm not super lean. I don't think that would make much difference for fish oil effects on brain IMO.

Still wake early and that bothers me a lot. Feeling anxious or ruminating while laying in bed......

Peace.

Infoshare

[[in...]]

Am I having an interdose withdrawal? I feel awful. 2mg valium x2 daily. It's not doing much. Is this withdrawal or tolerance, been 10 years since ativan, then valium in 2013. Or is it depression from valium and stressors?

 

Trying to hang on. Don't know what to do. Notice that my pdoc is leaving. I see her Mon. Everything is stress to me. I have late stage lyme.

 

Do I go higher on valium, or try yet again to taper the last 4mg? Will I feel better cutting it? Or worse? Should I go to hospital?

I don't know what's going on. Please pray.

 

Thanks in advance.

Infoshare.

 

Have you consider taking the two pills in one dose? I was also splitting my dose of 3.5mgs a day. 2mgs  first dose and 1.5mg some hours later. Since starting the dry taper method that bob helped me on, I take just one dose at around 4-5pm for the past week now and for some reason I feel much better. Yes I still have withdrawals but they are well tolerated as oppose to taking it twice a day. I guess my brain is being tricked thinkin its getting more valium cause i dose all at once. 4mgs is a very small dose so i really do not see the need to takin twice a day considering V has a long half life.

 

anyways good luck

Possibly. IDK. Perhaps I should try it. I take it at 2pm and 2am roughly.

1 bed time dose?

Infoshare.

[[Bo...]]

Am I having an interdose withdrawal? I feel awful. 2mg valium x2 daily. It's not doing much. Is this withdrawal or tolerance, been 10 years since ativan, then valium in 2013. Or is it depression from valium and stressors?

 

Trying to hang on. Don't know what to do. Notice that my pdoc is leaving. I see her Mon. Everything is stress to me. I have late stage lyme.

 

Do I go higher on valium, or try yet again to taper the last 4mg? Will I feel better cutting it? Or worse? Should I go to hospital?

I don't know what's going on. Please pray.

 

Thanks in advance.

Infoshare.

 

Have you consider taking the two pills in one dose? I was also splitting my dose of 3.5mgs a day. 2mgs  first dose and 1.5mg some hours later. Since starting the dry taper method that bob helped me on, I take just one dose at around 4-5pm for the past week now and for some reason I feel much better. Yes I still have withdrawals but they are well tolerated as oppose to taking it twice a day. I guess my brain is being tricked thinkin its getting more valium cause i dose all at once. 4mgs is a very small dose so i really do not see the need to takin twice a day cosidering V has a long half life.

 

anyways good luck

Possibly. IDK. Perhaps I should try it. I take it at 2pm and 2am roughly.

1 bed time dose?

Infoshare.

 

Seems like a big gap till your second dose. Try dosing around 4pm and see how that works. I never taper evening doses. Only when I was taking xanax like 3 times a day...

I also work out during the day so my endorpins are pretty high, so I dont need to take anything till late afternoon, but we all different.

[[in...]]

A big gap between doses yes but it would be an even bigger Gap with just doing one dose?

Infoshare

[[Pe...]]

Seems like a big gap till your second dose. Try dosing around 4pm and see how that works. I never taper evening doses. Only when I was taking xanax like 3 times a day...

I also work out during the day so my endorpins are pretty high, so I dont need to take anything till late afternoon, but we all different.

 

Hi Boricu,

 

I'm curious about why you don't taper evening dose? I've not seen anything in this thread regarding dose times. Can it make a difference with WD symptoms such as sleep?

I'm doing Bob's method too.

 

Peace

[[in...]]

Wouldn't if affect the bed dose and sleeping? If I took both tablets at 4pm? And this is my maintenance dose longstanding now.

I'm not actively tapering again yet. I feel so sick. Depressed.

 

Is this tolerance? If so what do I do about it? Do I have to withdraw?

 

I'm so on edge now and not sleeping well, don't know what to do. would be great if it would help.

 

infoshare.

[[ga...]]

Wouldn't if affect the bed dose and sleeping? If I took both tablets at 4pm? And this is my maintenance dose longstanding now.

I'm not actively tapering again yet. I feel so sick. Depressed.

 

Is this tolerance? If so what do I do about it? Do I have to withdraw?

 

I'm so on edge now and not sleeping well, don't know what to do. would be great if it would help.

 

infoshare.

 

I'm not sure I have any great advice. Some people dose V only once/day, but not sure if making that switch would be helpful or destabilizing. If sleep is a big issue, maybe you could ask about this on the insomnia thread. Lack of sleep can make a taper really hard. Some people, such as myself, resort to taking other medications for sleep, as the lesser of two evils.

[[Pe...]]

Wouldn't if affect the bed dose and sleeping? If I took both tablets at 4pm? And this is my maintenance dose longstanding now.

I'm not actively tapering again yet. I feel so sick. Depressed.

 

Is this tolerance? If so what do I do about it? Do I have to withdraw?

 

I'm so on edge now and not sleeping well, don't know what to do. would be great if it would help.

 

infoshare.

 

I'm not sure I have any great advice. Some people dose V only once/day, but not sure if making that switch would be helpful or destabilizing. If sleep is a big issue, maybe you could ask about this on the insomnia thread. Lack of sleep can make a taper really hard. Some people, such as myself, resort to taking other medications for sleep, as the lesser of two evils.

 

Gardie I take my dose around 7:30 pm and noticed that my heart palpitations start right before bed sometimes. Two nights ago I could not fall asleep. I don't always have this but lately, yes. I'm curious if it's because I'm getting lower in dose.

 

Peace

[[...]]

Hi Gard- I noticed you're at 5 mg!  Congrats!  I just hit 5mg also- yesterday!  It is a huge milestone to be at 1 capsule.  Here's a toast to our milestone moment.

 

I have to say the daily microtaper is what allowed me to get down this far. I am very sensitive to this drug and I don't think I could have done it any other way. I see a lot of talk in dosing. I dose once at 9pm. But I'm on Librium which is longer duration of action than V and much longer than K.

 

Peace everyone!

[[ga...]]

Wouldn't if affect the bed dose and sleeping? If I took both tablets at 4pm? And this is my maintenance dose longstanding now.

I'm not actively tapering again yet. I feel so sick. Depressed.

 

Is this tolerance? If so what do I do about it? Do I have to withdraw?

 

I'm so on edge now and not sleeping well, don't know what to do. would be great if it would help.

 

infoshare.

 

I'm not sure I have any great advice. Some people dose V only once/day, but not sure if making that switch would be helpful or destabilizing. If sleep is a big issue, maybe you could ask about this on the insomnia thread. Lack of sleep can make a taper really hard. Some people, such as myself, resort to taking other medications for sleep, as the lesser of two evils.

 

Gardi I take my dose around 7:30 pm and noticed that my heart palpitations start right before bed sometimes. Two nights ago I could not fall asleep. I don't always have this but lately, yes. I'm curious if it's because I'm getting lower in dose.

 

Peace

 

Sorry, Peace, I have no idea. You might want to look for the Klonopin support group.

[[ga...]]

Hi Gard- I noticed you're at 5 mg!  Congrats!  I just hit 5mg also- yesterday!  It is a huge milestone to be at 1 capsule.  Here's a toast to our milestone moment.

 

I have to say the daily microtaper is what allowed me to get down this far. I am very sensitive to this drug and I don't think I could have done it any other way. I see a lot of talk in dosing. I dose once at 9pm. But I'm on Librium which is longer duration of action than V and much longer than K.

 

Peace everyone!

 

Hi, libr! Wow, you're right there with me!     

 

I've been thinking of switching to once/day, but not sure I want to rock the boat. I'm also holding through the holidays right now, so you are going to leave me in the dust.

Gardie

[[Pe...]]

Wouldn't if affect the bed dose and sleeping? If I took both tablets at 4pm? And this is my maintenance dose longstanding now.

I'm not actively tapering again yet. I feel so sick. Depressed.

 

Is this tolerance? If so what do I do about it? Do I have to withdraw?

 

I'm so on edge now and not sleeping well, don't know what to do. would be great if it would help.

 

infoshare.

 

I'm not sure I have any great advice. Some people dose V only once/day, but not sure if making that switch would be helpful or destabilizing. If sleep is a big issue, maybe you could ask about this on the insomnia thread. Lack of sleep can make a taper really hard. Some people, such as myself, resort to taking other medications for sleep, as the lesser of two evils.

 

Gardi I take my dose around 7:30 pm and noticed that my heart palpitations start right before bed sometimes. Two nights ago I could not fall asleep. I don't always have this but lately, yes. I'm curious if it's because I'm getting lower in dose.

 

Peace

 

Sorry, Peace, I have no idea. You might want to look for the Klonopin support group.

Thanks Gardie!

Not sure where to find that thread. There are too many treads to navigate through. If you can tell me which one on main page that would be great.