Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread

[[la...]]

well Jerry I think its a good move just realize that you may not beable to cut as fast when you get to the lower doses. so just take it slow and steady

[[Sh...]]

thoughts?

 

THX

 

Having a hard time...could use a few words

 

took my first dose of Valium 2.5 mg in exchange for one of my 5x a day .27 lorazepam at 7pm last night. Very sedating.

 

took my 11 pm dose of LZP

 

woke up at 3:30am in i/d withdrawal pretty heavy with shaking in chest and jaw area. took another 2.5 mg dose of valium and fell asleep an hour later

 

up at 7 am for my Lzp dose and even worse sxs i/d withdrawal....feels almost acute

 

should it happen this quick?....wow

 

any ideas now are really appreciated

[[pe...]]

How do you get such low dosages of ativan?

[[Sh...]]

knife and a scale pete27

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wondering if i should be feeling so many withdrawals the first day of crossing over one dose of .27 mg for 2.5 mg of valium?

 

not sure where to look for info right now...having a hard time

[Guest [Mo...]]

Did you cross over a whole dose at one? Or half Ativan, half Valium.?

[[Sh...]]

I think i am currently taking around .24 mg 5 x a day ( the scale weight is .027 )

 

Last night i substituted one Lorazepam dose for a 2.5 dose of Valium.

 

Very sedating and it helped until my 11pm dose of Lorazepam. I could still feel the w/d below the surface for the Lorazepam even while on my first Valium dose.

 

I fell asleep with the 11PM Lorazepam dose under my tongue.

 

Around 3:30AM i was dreaming of shaking in w/d and woke up in pretty bad w/d. Usuallly in the last 3 weeks i have been sleeping for 7-8 hours each night and wake up with a touch of i/d w/d.....but not last night...whew

 

So instead of taking my 7AM dose of Lorazepam.... i took another 2.5 mg of valium after 1 hour of suffering @ 4:30 AM.

It did calm me a bit and i was able to go back to sleep until 7AM sharp and i woke up again in heavy shakes and w/d

 

7AM Lorazepam dose helped a bit and just took my 11AM lorazepam dose ( both .27 by weight) but i am still shaking and have lots of pain all over my body and other sxs

 

Am i being bit by the Lorazepam cut from last night this quick?

 

My Dr. wanted me to exchange two doses of LZP for Valium yesterday (the 3PM and 7PM doses for 5 mg of Valium )  i figured i would go slower as many have said the slower the better.

 

I gotta tell you i am concerned if i am getting hit this hard this fast of going through 3 -4 weeks of this.

 

I know everyone is different but i could sure use some ideas of if this gets easier as i go in the c/o or harder

 

Thanks!

[Guest [Mo...]]

I think i am currently taking around .24 mg 5 x a day ( the scale weight is .027 )

 

Last night i substituted one Lorazepam dose for a 2.5 dose of Valium.

 

Very sedating and it helped until my 11pm dose of Lorazepam. I could still feel the w/d below the surface for the Lorazepam even while on my first Valium dose.

 

I fell asleep with the 11PM Lorazepam dose under my tongue.

 

Around 3:30AM i was dreaming of shaking in w/d and woke up in pretty bad w/d. Usuallly in the last 3 weeks i have been sleeping for 7-8 hours each night and wake up with a touch of i/d w/d.....but not last night...whew

 

So instead of taking my 7AM dose of Lorazepam.... i took another 2.5 mg of valium after 1 hour of suffering @ 4:30 AM.

It did calm me a bit and i was able to go back to sleep until 7AM sharp and i woke up again in heavy shakes and w/d

 

7AM Lorazepam dose helped a bit and just took my 11AM lorazepam dose ( both .27 by weight) but i am still shaking and have lots of pain all over my body and other sxs

 

Am i being bit by the Lorazepam cut from last night this quick?

 

My Dr. wanted me to exchange two doses of LZP for Valium yesterday (the 3PM and 7PM doses for 5 mg of Valium )  i figured i would go slower as many have said the slower the better.

 

I gotta tell you i am concerned if i am getting hit this hard this fast of going through 3 -4 weeks of this.

 

I know everyone is different but i could sure use some ideas of if this gets easier as i go in the c/o or harder

 

Thanks!

 

I did get hit pretty bad the first couple of days on Valium, due to dropping the Ativan.

You know, the Valium hasn't build up in your system by FAR. It's only been a day...

Mostly it will take around 3-4 weeks for it to have fully built up.

Which does NOT mean it's not doing something for you at THIS moment, however.

 

Yep, try to imagine you just dropped one of your doses of Ativan! You would feel that today, indeed, right?

And since the V is not completely in your system yet ( or enough to cover your withdrawal symptoms) I believe this is an acute kind of Wd feeling from the Ativan.

I went through the same thing...

It's easier said than done. And a week sounds like FOREVER and you think you can't tolerate much more... But you can. A day, an hour, a Minute at a time ... We have been there. It's very hard.

But you will come out better soon, okay? It doesn't stay like this forever....

 

As you start replacing more doses, you will notice.

Going slow is not a bad thing. You won't have enough ( again) v build up to cover your Ativan Wd symptoms, and you don't want to suffer more...

I'm sorry it's so rough right now.

 

When are you going to replace your next dose?

 

Maybe an idea would be to take your v 3x a day after a while. Combing two of your doses into one.

And then take your largest dose at your most symptomatic time of day.

Mine were the mornings, always around 4 am. I took my largest dose then. But that's when you're a bit further down the road, IMO.

 

Moo

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Thanks Mom of one !

 

I got to be honest...i don't know what i am going to do right now...can't think...getting that panic feeling and lots of pain in left shoulder

 

Yeah i get that it will take 3-4 weeks to build up in my system...i just didnt think i would get hit so hard right away...wow

 

Will it stay this way the whole three weeks? Maybe i would just be best sticking with Ativan and down dosing

 

Sure is confusing in this state to know what to do and when relief will come...if any.

 

I have a 3PM Ativan dose and then the 7 PM is the exchange dose of 2.5 mg of Valium for .24 Ativan.

Even though it was very sedative i still liked how it made me feel over Ativan. Ativan just doesn't seem to work anymore but i gotta take it not to freak out.

 

So to answer your question i was going to keep doing this for 3 days and then take another 2.5 mg in exchange for me 3PM dose...but now i am worried as it may be too soon to dump another dose of Ativan....but i need more Valium in system to take down the Ativan....what a catch 22 here.

 

But i guess i will keep the middle of the night updose of 2.5 mg of Valium if i am woken up again in w/d

 

Then when all doses are exchanged i will start to take the Valium in bigger doses less often. Thanks for the advice on taking it at the worst time for sxs. Usually a little in the AM upon waking and then some at night.

 

This is the first timme i have felt pain like this though....another chapter in Benzo life i guess

 

Thanks MOO!

[Guest [Mo...]]

Thanks Mom of one !

 

I got to be honest...i don't know what i am going to do right now...can't think...getting that panic feeling and lots of pain in left shoulder

 

Yeah i get that it will take 3-4 weeks to build up in my system...i just didnt think i would get hit so hard right away...wow

 

Will it stay this way the whole three weeks? Maybe i would just be best sticking with Ativan and down dosing

 

Sure is confusing in this state to know what to do and when relief will come...if any.

 

I have a 3PM Ativan dose and then the 7 PM is the exchange dose of 2.5 mg of Valium for .24 Ativan.

Even though it was very sedative i still liked how it made me feel over Ativan. Ativan just doesn't seem to work anymore but i gotta take it not to freak out.

 

So to answer your question i was going to keep doing this for 3 days and then take another 2.5 mg in exchange for me 3PM dose...but now i am worried as it may be too soon to dump another dose of Ativan....but i need more Valium in system to take down the Ativan....what a catch 22 here.

 

But i guess i will keep the middle of the night updose of 2.5 mg of Valium if i am woken up again in w/d

 

Then when all doses are exchanged i will start to take the Valium in bigger doses less often. Thanks for the advice on taking it at the worst time for sxs. Usually a little in the AM upon waking and then some at night.

 

This is the first timme i have felt pain like this though....another chapter in Benzo life i guess

 

Thanks MOO!

 

I hope more people chime in here, but it would replace a second dose in three days as well.

To get more V into yiur body.

Another solution would be to updose a little bit on this dose. Taking 3 mgr Instaed of 2.5

What goes up, must come down however....

I did that. I had to. I started from an acute interdose position when crossing over.

 

No, it won't stay like that for three weeks, as your liver will start accumulating the Valium and store it there for you nicely

I can't say how it will go for you,mbut this is what happened for me and many here.

 

I know it's the old " try to distract and relax" adagio but it works. It really does.

I used to find guided meditations on YouTube. I needed a voice with it, so I could focus on that and after a couple of times it helped.

Maybe try some of those?

 

I like these

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUVKqY_qqM&sns=em

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxXAYKgcPE&sns=em

 

But there are many.

 

Hang In there,  okay? It won't be this acute and horrible forever.

I could have NEVER done the Ativan taper. Just could not get below 0.75

And wondered each day, when feeling so miserable and panicked, if I made the wrong choice.

Looking back, it was the best I could have done.

 

Moo

[[Sh...]]

Thanks so much MOO!

 

Looks like ill try a movie... and an Advil for the pain 

[[Sh...]]

 

MOO

 

Took a liquid gel Advil ( 200mg) and a baby asprin ( 81 mg ) and it helped a bit but was still bad...finally i gave in and took 1 mg Valium and it smoothed me out nicely....weird

 

Relieved for a bit

 

I planned my crossover for 12 mg Valium but if i have to go up to 15 mg to get a smoother c/o....so be it

[Guest [Mo...]]

 

MOO

 

Took a liquid gel Advil ( 200mg) and a baby asprin ( 81 mg ) and it helped a bit but was still bad...finally i gave in and took 1 mg Valium and it smoothed me out nicely....weird

 

Relieved for a bit

 

I planned my crossover for 12 mg Valium but if i have to go up to 15 mg to get a smoother c/o....so be it

 

You could always try to just take a little bit more and not be too drastic?

It's easy to up dose but not so easy to get off...

I also updosed to 15 mgr because they was noooo way. I was in too acute Wd when I crossed.

If you can remotely tolerate it, stick it out for a bit more?

 

Maybe take the 3 in the morning? And 3 for the next dose to be crossed and then wait a bit?

I hope more people chime in on this...

 

Glad you felt a bit better. I take Advil too for my muscle cramps sometimes. 400 mgr ones.

 

Did you take the 1 mgr outside of your regular dose? I would be careful with that and really stick to a plan.

I do take my dose earlier of later when I wake up early of when I forget a dose. Yep...I actually forget it sometimes. That's how it smoothed out.

 

Moo

 

[[Sh...]]

MOO

 

yeah i took the 1 mg of V out of turn today and the 2.5 mg at 3:30AM is an updose so i am up 3.5 today.

 

i took my 7 PM exchange dose 2 hours ago and it didn't work like last night...  i am in heavy withdrawal now...starting to sweat

 

not sure i can do this c/o. i have taken 6 mg of V to adjust for the loss of .24 of Ativan and it is still not enough?

 

Something is wrong here

 

yeah you are one of the only ones responding...thanks!  maybe i pissed some one off or something

 

 

[Guest [Mo...]]

Nah, I think this thread is not visited much. Most people post on the Valium support thread. You can discuss your ross over there as well. Its where all us Valium folks hang out. 

 

Yes, you can do this! Taking more and more Valium is not going to help you right now, IMO.

It needs time to build up. It won't provide instant relief. Please don't fall for that, or you will be stuck with way too much. That is my advice.

 

You really need to stick to the cross over plan... It's very important to be consistent or you will not reach a place to taper from. Up and down in doses will bite you in the behind.

 

Would you like me to copy our conversation to the Valium support thread? You will get much more response there.

 

You didn't piss anyone off. I'm very sure of that. Most are just along with their taper I think.

We are all here to help. You will see.

Moo

[Guest [Mo...]]

Btw here is the link to the Valium support thread

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=96753.0

[[Sh...]]

Thanks MOO

 

I have to watch it too because i have high BP and heart stuff so i can't let myself go through too much stress

 

I have posted several times on other threads. I did have one guy PM me a few times and he was very helpful.

 

I will stick with the plan as best as i can

 

i really appreciate all of your support MOO !

 

PS I think i need to take a 5 mg pill at one time instead of 2.5. Weird how it sedated me yesterday and today i didn't even notice it

[Guest [Mo...]]

Thanks MOO

 

I have to watch it too because i have high BP and heart stuff so i can't let myself go through too much stress

 

I have posted several times on other threads. I did have one guy PM me a few times and he was very helpful.

 

I will stick with the plan as best as i can

 

i really appreciate all of your support MOO !

 

PS I think i need to take a 5 mg pill at one time instead of 2.5. Weird how it sedated me yesterday and today i didn't even notice it

 

Yeah, it can be off and on, but eventually it will smooth out.

 

Like I said: a larger dose doesn't mean you get instant relief from it. Please be careful with updosing during this very early stage....

I did take more for my evening dose while crossing over. Not for the others though.

I don't regret it,mbecause it is what helped me, but it still do have to taper it all....

Just a warning: it doesn't mean it will give you relief sooner. It really takes TIME, time, time.

Please try to stick it out for a bit if you can... Then you can always up dose later...

My two cents.

 

 

[[al...]]

ARGHH, I could cry!! Just spent about an hour kind of going into a bit of detail re: my failed c/o attempt a while ago...me/computers/gah!!!! So, I'll just try to quickly re-cap, sigh. I've been looking forward to kind of picking your brain, 'Moo,' what with the stuff you've learned through your hard fought battle (enjoyed you inspiring-wow-blog).

 

After crashing at almost exactly the start of week/stage 4 of the Ashton c/o, I up dosed to 4 mg after experiencing what felt like totally out of the blue rotten neuropathic back pain (my main s/x, since tapering). After a week, I dropped to 3.5, and this week to 3.0...much like after my not-so-great titration taper fail, except a bit less time at each dose.

 

Grrr! back is still not real happy, but hoping it'll settle down soon; want to be stable for another c/o, which will ideally go a LOT better. I do think I learned some helpful things i.e. should have listened to body/brain during week 3, when after first 2 easy stages, had some hints of s/x.

 

Valium should have built up a fair amount-I'm thinking-after 3 weeks...but I didn't feel sedated at all. I'm small, but pretty hyper, so my metabolism revs high (think hummingbird?). I guess the main thing my 'crash' may be telling me is to slooooow down next time.

 

I've read quite a few folks have found Ashton too fast for them; I'm in this for the long haul, and would far rather take more time, and 'succeed.' I had been nervous about the whole Valium thing, but the first 2 weeks were so easy...I sort of thought I should stick to the chart.

 

Obviously, that didn't work, so here I am-back to the drawing board. I'm really grateful you are steering this thread, and hopehopehope you will have some impressions/feedback on how to improve my c/o (a LOT!) next time. It would be great if you could let me know if you feel my 'analysis' of what went wrong makes sense, or ??

 

I've heard a bit about up dosing the Valium (as opposed to Ashton's chart) at times; not sure if I understand that, exactly. I do get that if you go higher, you have more to taper.  I also understand that we all have different biochemistry etc., and it's not an exact science re: Ashton chart amounts to c/o.

 

I'm just demoralized about my c/o splat!, and afraid that I won't get it right...again. Which is why I'm here, asking what you think. Any comments/advice you might have will be appreciated a ton. Thanks for your time, and all you do on BB...

[[sn...]]

Hi,

 

I was wondering if anyone switched from Ativan or any other benzo and experienced depression from Valium and had to go back to their old benzo?  If you stuck with the valium, did the depression get worse?

 

 

Thanks,

God bless you,

Deborah

[[...]]

I'll chime in while we wait for Moo. Depression is a common symptom of Valium ,however, you have to weigh the benefits of an easier taper. I think any benzo is going to produce depr. as u taper. I've heard it gets better as u go lower.

[[sn...]]

Thanks I appreciate it very much!  I'm severely depressed and just concerned. 

 

Bless you,

Deborah

[[or...]]

snow I crossed from Ativan and was not depressed by Valium. I was a little sedated at first but not depressed. Some say it makes them feel that way, but I was one of the ones who didn't get that s/x. So it doesn't affect everyone like that. I highly recommend a cross to Valium. Ativan's interdose w/d was too much for me.

 

Best to you,

 

Okatz

[[sn...]]

Thank you so much I appreciate you sharing with me your experience with your crossover from Ativan to Valium. 

 

God bless you and yours,

Deborah

[[Je...]]

Katz can you compare how Valium hits you to how something like Xanax does?  I've said this before,

Xanax hits kinda hard, but leaves in a hurry.  I'm assuming Valium is much smoother and probably not as initially sedating as that slug of Xanax...I'd hope it leaves you feeling more level...

 

 

 

snow I crossed from Ativan and was not depressed by Valium. I was a little sedated at first but not depressed. Some say it makes them feel that way, but I was one of the ones who didn't get that s/x. So it doesn't affect everyone like that. I highly recommend a cross to Valium. Ativan's interdose w/d was too much for me.

 

Best to you,

 

Okatz