Cross-Over to Valium Support Thread

[[ov...]]

Mom:  When you say you cut the V by hand.  Do you mean with a knife, razor, or your fingernail.  I couldn't get it to break in half.  When I was on K it would break right down the middle almost perfect and no crumbling.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

[[or...]]

I have 2 mg tablets (Teva) and they do not break evenly at all. Nor do they "split" evenly in a pill splitter. I use a razor blade. Works much better. Just a thought . . .

 

Okatz

[[ro...]]

I have Teva also. 2mg tabs. Use a razor too.

[Guest [Mo...]]

Mom:  When you say you cut the V by hand.  Do you mean with a knife, razor, or your fingernail.  I couldn't get it to break in half.  When I was on K it would break right down the middle almost perfect and no crumbling.

 

xo OC  :smitten:

 

Just between the thumb and index fingers, like you would break a cookie in half.

My 5 mgr are scored and they break more evenly this way than by pill splitter for some reason. Then they crumble...

[[ov...]]

Thanks folks, I will try the razor this time.  I have my pills in containers for the week so when I do my next taper, next week I will try using the razor.  I didn't have this problem with K, they just broke in half with my fingers like Mom said.

 

Have a super day!

xo OC  :smitten:

[[ro...]]

Ok, not good ths morning again. No sleep. In middle of c/o to Valium. Dizzy, shakey, could cry and open a dam with tears,Could the valium not be areeing with me? This may be common, but feel like I'm going crazy. It's Easter and that makes me feel worse. Should see family. Want to cry. I apologize again . Tried deep breathing, feel so tired, but shakey. Please help.  rose

[[mr...]]

Ok, not good ths morning again. No sleep. In middle of c/o to Valium. Dizzy, shakey, could cry and open a dam with tears,Could the valium not be areeing with me? This may be common, but feel like I'm going crazy. It's Easter and that makes me feel worse. Should see family. Want to cry. I apologize again . Tried deep breathing, feel so tired, but shakey. Please help.  rose

Rose,

Just like with mom of one, timeforachange and others, you have to wait at least a week for the valium to build up and start calming you down.

When crossing over and we suffer acute sx's we always want to blame the valium when it is acute sx's from our other benzo due to being in tolerance.

Are you completely c/o yet?

Are u at the right equivalent valium dose?

[[ro...]]

meo, half and half....equiv. dosing.  I feel so tired meo. So shakey, want to feel stable soon. What if I stay in ativan w/ds.... How can this c/o help me? CAn't hardly fuction this morning....Thank you  friend for replying this morning.

[[mr...]]

meo, half and half....equiv. dosing.  I feel so tired meo. So shakey, want to feel stable soon. What if I stay in ativan w/ds.... How can this c/o help me? CAn't hardly fuction this morning....Thank you  friend for replying this morning.

Rose,

When are your worst sx's?

[[ro...]]

Morning.

[[Kg...]]

Rosegal I think what you are going through happened to me - as I went down on the klonopin and did the c/o to Valium I felt all of the symptoms of withdrawal  - and the valium didn't seem to help much.  But I knew I couldn't get off the klonopin so I just suffered through it. My mornings were also the worst and every night I felt better.  Valium takes time to get in your system - it still does not work as 'well' for me as the klonopin did when it worked (for me it stopped working) and I had awful nausea and GI symptoms plus anxiety all day - and felt tired.  People on these boards helped me by saying 1. give it time to work 2.  recommending ginger for the nausea and 3.  just get through each day one day at a time.  I am still trying to do this and I haven't even begun my taper and still don't feel great but much better than when I started.

[Guest [Mo...]]

meo, half and half....equiv. dosing.  I feel so tired meo. So shakey, want to feel stable soon. What if I stay in ativan w/ds.... How can this c/o help me? CAn't hardly fuction this morning....Thank you  friend for replying this morning.

 

rose, you will not stay in Ativan Wd.

Once your Valium levels go up, they will cover you.

This is a rough patch for many, the point you're at now.

 

I agree on the ginger. Just boil some fresh ginger in water and drink it like tea. Works wonders for GI problems.

Hang in there..you're almost there!

[[ro...]]

Moo, Kgirl....will try ginger tea. I have some ginger. Mostly tired and tearful.. Sorry again, this feels childish, just feel bad all the way around. Im afraid Moo that the ativan w/ds are going to be awful...and Im on a new med....I thought  this would be better. Seems like now I have to be in a w/d than another one...Im a mess.....

[Guest [Mo...]]

Moo, Kgirl....will try ginger tea. I have some ginger. Mostly tired and tearful.. Sorry again, this feels childish, just feel bad all the way around. Im afraid Moo that the ativan w/ds are going to be awful...and Im on a new med....I thought  this would be better. Seems like now I have to be in a w/d than another one...Im a mess.....

 

Crying is okay Rose. It releases toxins . It's not childish at all. At ALL!

Don't think the Wd from Ativan would be worse. The v will take care of it,mbut you have not enough build up from it. You keep adding every day and soon going on more V.

The sedation and depressed feeling might not be resolved right away but the Wd will,IMO.

Yes, feeling like a mess. Take it easy. Don't do anything you can't deal with right now.

 

[[la...]]

Rose, all I will add is "what they said". I am week 3 of c/o and the sedation has simmered way down. I drink chamomile tea because my GI problems are not nausea but PAIN. So Ginger doesn't help with that but chamomile is a natural anti spasmodic so it helps with my pain

 

Remember the reason why you are doing all of this...so there will be a day that you will have a GREAT testimony . But there is no Testimony without the test.

 

Love to all of you on our Saviors Day of resurrection!!!!

[[Kg...]]

It is so nice to have all of us here helping each other - I truly don't know what I'd do without the support of everyone here.  Rosegal you now get to join our club that none of us wanted to be in - but we will all help each other and do this together.  Some days will good, others awful but we will survive this!!!

[Guest [Mo...]]

It is so nice to have all of us here helping each other - I truly don't know what I'd do without the support of everyone here.  Rosegal you now get to join our club that none of us wanted to be in - but we will all help each other and do this together.  Some days will good, others awful but we will survive this!!!

 

For sure!

We're all in this together and we are on our way. Imagine the thousands of people out ther who don't know what's wrong with them. Hope they find their way here soon and wishing you all a better day.

One step at a time.

[Guest [in...]]

thought this would be a good read for those crossing over. its from benzo.org.uk

 

ALL BENZODIAZEPINES ARE NON-SELECTIVE

 

Professor C Heather Ashton, DM, FRCP

April 2001

 

It is often suggested that the chemical makeup of diazepam [Valium] does not address many of the receptor sites the newer medications (eg alprazolam [Xanax], clonazepam [Klonopin]) have an effect on.

 

All the benzodiazepines are non-selective and act on all types of GABA/benzodiazepine receptors. Valium acts on exactly the same receptors as Klonopin etc.

 

The GABA-A receptor subtype alpha2 is responsible for anti-anxiety effects and amnesia, GABA-A alpha1 subtype for sedation, and both alpha1 and alpha2 as well as alpha5 subtypes for the anticonvulsant effects. All the benzodiazepines act on all of these. Zopiclone and zolpidem are meant to be more selective, acting mainly on alpha1 subtype, though this is only relative.

 

Therefore there is no reason for not substituting Valium in Klonopin, Xanax and Ativan withdrawal. I have done it successfully in many patients. The only reasons for people getting "a type of withdrawal" while still on medication are if the correct equivalent dose has not been given, or if the substitution has been carried out abruptly instead of stepwise.

 

Klonopin, Ativan and Xanax are all much more potent than Valium (equivalents given in Manual). Xanax and Ativan are relatively rapidly eliminated. Klonopin has a half life of 18 to 50 hours compared to Valium's 200 hours, so Klonopin cannot be called long-acting. The suggestion that "Klonopin is the only long-acting benzo that is able to cover Klonopin receptors" is nonsense. There are no such things as just Klonopin receptors, as explained above.

 

"The classical benzodiazepines act indiscriminately on all diazepam-sensitive GABA-A receptors", according to Rudolph, Crestani & Möhler in an article entitled "GABA receptor subtypes: dissecting their pharmacological functions", Trends in Pharmacological Sciences, 22: 188-193, 2001. References 28-32 in this article support this point. Hans Möhler is a highly respected biochemist who first described the benzodiazepine receptor.

 

The main reason that benzodiazepines have somewhat different structures is not so much that they act on different receptors (they don't) but so that the drug companies can call them different drugs. They remain chemically benzodiazepines (a chemical name). Although they may differ in binding affinity for the receptors, potency, elimination time, etc., they all act on all subclasses of benzodiazepine receptors.

 

 

Further Note on Klonopin vs Valium: April 15, 2002. It is well known that Klonopin is a good anticonvulsant. In fact its only indication for use in the UK is for epilepsy. The fact that it has a higher affinity for GABA-A receptor sites than diazepam simply means that it is more potent, but potency is mainly a matter of equivalent dosages. Binding of clonazepam to receptors that do not bind to other benzodiazepines and action on sodium channel conductors are relevant to anticonvulsant effects, not tranquillising effects. The fact that clonazepam has sedative and anxiolytic actions and typical adverse effects of benzodiazepines including ataxia, irritability, depression and tolerance shows that there is little overall difference.

 

Since clonazepam has a relatively short half life, from 18 to 50 hours, I don't think it would be any easier to come off it using 1/64th mg capsules. I think you still need a long-acting benzodiazepine such as diazepam. I would also reiterate that I have known people make the clonazepam to diazepam substitution and final withdrawal without difficulty.

 

 

 

The Ashton Manual · Professor Ashton's Main Page

[[la...]]

thanks Ingrid that was very good to know. I am now positive I am past crazy and am now entering full blown insanity. thus the name Lainey the insaney

 

[[ro...]]

Thank you all, just alone, husband out. Son not visiting. Feel like a sad zombie. Thanks ingrid about the article. I hope this works dear...   rose

[[Ra...]]

rosegal, I'm sorry to hear you are in such a bad mental state.  I think we are in the same boat, I too am very depressed today.  I pray for us both to be better 

[[ro...]]

Rabbit, sorry for this depression also , for all who suffer with it. It is the worst thing for me. Thanks hon for prayers. Thanks so much for coming by.    rose

[[or...]]

rose I think you will feel better once you get all the way over to valium. I know I did. Ativan was a nasty drug for me and as soon as my c/o was complete I felt lots better. A little sedated from the valium, but, hey, it was so much better than the i/d w/ds I was having on Ativan. I know you will feel better soon.

 

Sending good thoughts your way,

 

Okatz

[[ov...]]

Rose and Rabbit:  So sorry for your depression, I have it too.  V is known for this.  Hard not to be depressed when one has so many w/d s/xs.

Happy Easter

xo OC  :smitten:

[[li...]]

hi all 

 

my pdoc has just agreed to allow me to do a c/o to valium if I want, have a month to decide what to do (have to say I was shocked, had given up on the idea)

 

I just made a recent cut on my lorazepam, now at .25mg day .25mg night.... I have to say that I am going through some terrible w/d s/x on this one (cut .125mg) so I am glad that I have a month will most likely hold.....

 

Any experience/suggestions appreciated, if I understand correctly I would be subbing 5mg V for the .5 lorazepam am very nervous about making this decision..

 

Lightbright