Heart Palps Support Group

[[Ha...]]

I'm now 15 months off any benzos or meds... I just got hit with an heart palp episode.  I don't understand this far out why I'm still having them.i take my attenolol as needed. I hope that they will end. Anyone 15 months off or further still having this??

[[Wo...]]

I'm now 15 months off any benzos or meds... I just got hit with an heart palp episode.  I don't understand this far out why I'm still having them.i take my attenolol as needed. I hope that they will end. Anyone 15 months off or further still having this??

 

Happy I'm sorry you're still struggling with these things. I'm only 8 months out, but I can tell I'll have these forever. It's just the way my heart beats now. The good thing is I'm used to them and they don't worry me anymore. They just feel like hiccups kinda. I'm way more worried about my BP. I hope you feel better soon.

[[Ha...]]

Awe thank you. I am so sick of them. I wish I would get used to them... I cant. Once they hit then anxiety follows. Thanks for replying to me..

[[Ra...]]

@Mosart What's your dosage on the Propanolol? How does it help you?

[[mo...]]

@Mosart What's your dosage on the Propanolol? How does it help you?

 

Hi Razekiel,

 

Beta blockers are an older drug and they work in a fairly straightforward manner, BUT the different types of beta blockers and what they do in the body, especially the brain, neuroendocrine system and heart, is more complicated.

 

I have 10mg immediate release tablets of propanolol that are scored to be cut in half. I take anywhere from 1/2 to a whole pill one or two times a day when needed. This is a VERY low dosage, but I am very sensitive to beta blockers, which caused me (before benzo w/d!) to have very low blood pressure, so it is plenty for me. Since starting benzo w/d, I have experienced my first ever episodes of high blood pressure, which tend to be very erratic — I can wake up with a BP of 90/50 and an hour later after standing up to make breakfast and do the dishes, I'm suddenly at 150/90 and then walking up a flight of stairs I'm at 170/110. In addition, since starting benzo w/d I have had sinus tachycardia (normal sinus rhythm in that it is NOT Arrhythmia or palpitations) with a resting pulse rate of around 110 and up to 130 when standing up and walking. Since I already have a congenital heart defect, (and I'm older) my docs are not happy with these numbers — plus SOME types of arrhythmia and palpitations are more likely to be induced by higher heart rates. Also, I have a rare seizure migraine disorder (how I got on benzos in the first place) and benzo w/d can exacerbate this condition.

 

So I use propanolol in the following circumstances: 1.) If I wake up and my resting heart rate is really high, I take a pill and it seems to help me quite a bit by slightly lowering my heart rate (down to around 80-90 resting so at least it is under 100 bpm) and by making me feel less "shaky", which is something that happens to me when my heart rate is that high — I am assuming both the higher HR and the "shaky" feeling is due to disregulation of the autonomic nervous system and an increase in cortisol and adrenalin since that is what it "feels" like to me. I might take another pill later in the day if I'm still having trouble. 2.) If my BP is over 140/80 I will take a pill to try and help lower my BP, but (especially at this low dose) I think it is less effective for lowering my BP. 3.) If I get a migraine or feel the sxs of a seizure coming on, I will take one, and sometimes 2, pills. Propanolol is often used a migraine preventative (in higher doses), but I don't want to take it every day and luckily I have found that, when combined with the other meds I take now at the onset of a seizure migraine, it seems to help make them go away faster.

 

Propanolol at higher doses in SOME patients with particular types of arrhythmias is effective in controlling or lessening the arrhythmia and can help control some types of tachycardia (fast heart rate). Some cases of palpitations, in particular those caused by high levels of adrenalin and adrenalin type compounds in the body, respond well to beta blockers because the med blocks the body and heart's "reaction" to the adrenalin. In other patients beta blockers can cause bradycardia (slow heart rate) and can actually exacerbate other types of palpitations because some types of palpitations are actually MORE likely to occur when the heart rate is slower. So, as I mentioned above, it's actions in the body can be quite complex — and perplexing!

 

Beta blockers in lower doses (like I take) are also frequently used for patients with POTS (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome — when they stand up they get low BP and a high heart rate) and in patients with "chronic fatigue" syndrome. While in higher doses it is an effective BP lower drug, in smaller doses when taken regularly, (not just "as needed") it appears (from studies I have read) that it may affect the autonomic nervous system in a way that "stabilizes" it as the beta receptors are being blocked from various neuroendocrines. This may, or may not, be helpful during benzo w/d, depending on your sxs and a myriad of other factors.

 

Beta blockers have also been used "successfully" for specific kinds of anxiety and phobias — like public speaking — and for generalized anxiety, although it is not considered very effective for generalized anxiety disorder.

 

For SOME people, a beta blocker seems to be helpful in combating several benzo w/d sxs including tachycardia, headaches, shakiness, adrenalin surges and for some, that "anxious" or "fearful" feeling as well as "stabilizing" the autonomic nervous system, however for others there is no effect or they feel worse on beta blockers. And, beta blockers have side effects — tiredness, dizziness, drowsiness, slow heart beat, low blood pressure, palpitations, poor sleep quality, arrhythmia and more. Also, when taken every day, the body builds up tolerance so at some point when you decide to quit taking it REGULARLY, it needs to be tapered. Having tapered off a daily beta blocker (metaproplol, which does NOT cross the blood brain barrier) I can say it was NOTHING compared to benzo w/d...I just slowly cut my dose and didn't feel much except a slightly elevated heart rate now and then and a little more sensitive to adrenalin, but people on high doses of beta blockers have reported they find them uncomfortable to taper from. That is why I take it only PRN now — maybe 3 - 5 pills a week.

 

From the studies I have read, some people feel better on the beta blockers that do NOT cross the blood brain barrier, while others seem to need the ones that DO cross the blood brain barrier. There are studies on beta blockers and benzo w/d and it is a "recognized assist therapy", but I have never seen anything about whether it impedes healing of the GABA receptors (doubtful, since beta blockers work on beta receptors in the brain and the rest of the body, but with benzos who knows?!) or whether it enhances or impedes healing/regulation of the neuroendocrine system (possible, but could go either way — helps or hurts or doesn't make a difference, again who knows?).

 

So there is more than you ever wanted to know about beta blockers... Before taking them I would check carefully with my doctor and think about what you want to achieve by taking them and consider the pros and cons. I am really glad to have them as I think, given my already existing health issues, I would not have been able to do this taper as far and as "fast" as I have (she says, 5 months later with 3 months still to go!) without the extra "assistance" I get from them.

 

Regards,

 

Mo

[[Ra...]]

Thanks for the info, Mosart. 

 

My Psych gave them to me for anxiety and BP to help with my taper.  I started taking them this weekend 1/2 at a time.  They seem to have helped some, however some new symptoms are starting to pop up and I don't know if it's from the taper or from the Prop.  Last couple of nights I've been waking up in the middle of the night with adrenal surges, feeling weak etc.  I haven't done that in years.  So I don't know what to attribute it to..

[[mo...]]

Thanks for the info, Mosart. 

 

My Psych gave them to me for anxiety and BP to help with my taper.  I started taking them this weekend 1/2 at a time.  They seem to have helped some, however some new symptoms are starting to pop up and I don't know if it's from the taper or from the Prop.  Last couple of nights I've been waking up in the middle of the night with adrenal surges, feeling weak etc.  I haven't done that in years.  So I don't know what to attribute it to..

 

You're welcome!

 

I have never heard of someone getting an adrenalin rush from taking beta blockers (quite the opposite usually!) unless they are tapering off a large dose, however, some people react "paradoxically" to benzos, so I suppose anything is possible...and as it is your body, you will know best, but of course while in the benzo vortex it is hard to really KNOW what is going on sometimes!

 

Also, while immediate release beta blockers will work quite quickly in your body (but also are depleted relatively quickly so you have dose several times a day to maintain a "steady state"), if you are taking sustained release (SR) or extended release (ER) tablets, then they should "cover you" for 12-24 hours, depending on what your dosing schedule is. I am not even sure if the 10mg tablets come in SR or ER? But, if you are taking immediate release, then it might be the timing...? i.e, if you take it at a certain time before bed, then when it wears off as you sleep, maybe it is conceivable you might get the adrenalin surge, which, incidentally seems to be VERY common (and tend to come at about that exact time you experienced yours!) in benzo w/d.

 

Additionally, for the population with POTS or patients looking to "stabilize" their autonomic nervous systems, it appears from the studies that it takes at least 2-3 weeks of regular use (at LOW dose) to really "kick in", which is in contrast to immediate release beta blockers taken occasionally for specific panic or phobia issues (like before public speaking) or for an isolated adrenalin rush or a random anxiety/panic attack.

 

Wish I had the answer for you — or better yet a magic wand — I would just wave it over everyone here on BB who needs it and, voila, it would be over, but unfortunately it just doesn't work that way. If it were me I would either be in a total panic about ever taking another beta blocker pill (because I am so sensitive to meds) or I would try it for a few more days and see how I feel. Since everyone is so different and benzos mess things up in our bodies so much, it just really makes it hard. But, I find that being open to trying things and accessing information is helpful because I eventually stumble onto something that does help — or I have simply kept myself occupied while getting through it.

 

There are various different beta blockers that are similar, yet different (like the benzos) so while prop is the one usually used during benzo w/d, there are other beta blocker options out there and it is possible that if prop doesn't work for you, another one might...

 

Regards,

 

Mo

[[Ra...]]

Not quite sure which type I'm taking to be honest.  They're the small pinkish round ones, 10mg that have the score mark down the middle.  The pharmacist said that they usually work for around 6 hours, so I'm guessing they are SR.  I haven't tried taking one at night yet, but I may if the symptoms keep up. 

 

A long time ago, before I started taking Clonazapan, I took Toporol.  Was taking that for a while, then they switched me to the Benzo.  I think I tolerated the Toporol better.  Don't remember.  This one isn't so bad.

[[mo...]]

Not quite sure which type I'm taking to be honest.  They're the small pinkish round ones, 10mg that have the score mark down the middle.  The pharmacist said that they usually work for around 6 hours, so I'm guessing they are SR.  I haven't tried taking one at night yet, but I may if the symptoms keep up. 

 

A long time ago, before I started taking Clonazapan, I took Toporol.  Was taking that for a while, then they switched me to the Benzo.  I think I tolerated the Toporol better.  Don't remember.  This one isn't so bad.

 

I took Toprol (Metaproplol) for years for a congenital heart defect that causes arrhythmia and tolerated it pretty well — definitely I could take higher doses of Topral than with propanolol, but for some reason the propanolol seems better for me during the benzo w/d. While I always been told it is less likely to cross the blood brain barrier (or crosses in smaller amounts) than propanolol, I think it is believed to potentially cross that barrier. If you did better on Toprol maybe that would be something to try? There are also several newer beta blockers, such as Corgard, a drug that many in the cardiac arrhythmia group I am part of seem to particularly like, although I am not sure how it would be for benzo w/d, but my thoughts are WHATEVER works for the individual and leads to getting OFF the benzos, is the "right stuff"!

 

Hope you are feeling better soon,

 

Mo

[[Ra...]]

Yeah, I think my body is getting used to it.  Like the Toporol there was a period where my body felt like it was fighting it?  Hard to explain.  But I think I'm doing fairly well on it now.  Thanks again, Mosart!

 

[[me...]]

Not quite sure which type I'm taking to be honest.  They're the small pinkish round ones, 10mg that have the score mark down the middle.  The pharmacist said that they usually work for around 6 hours, so I'm guessing they are SR.  I haven't tried taking one at night yet, but I may if the symptoms keep up. 

 

A long time ago, before I started taking Clonazapan, I took Toporol.  Was taking that for a while, then they switched me to the Benzo.  I think I tolerated the Toporol better.  Don't remember.  This one isn't so bad.

 

I took Toprol (Metaproplol) for years for a congenital heart defect that causes arrhythmia and tolerated it pretty well — definitely I could take higher doses of Topral than with propanolol, but for some reason the propanolol seems better for me during the benzo w/d. While I always been told it is less likely to cross the blood brain barrier (or crosses in smaller amounts) than propanolol, I think it is believed to potentially cross that barrier. If you did better on Toprol maybe that would be something to try? There are also several newer beta blockers, such as Corgard, a drug that many in the cardiac arrhythmia group I am part of seem to particularly like, although I am not sure how it would be for benzo w/d, but my thoughts are WHATEVER works for the individual and leads to getting OFF the benzos, is the "right stuff"!

 

Hope you are feeling better soon,

 

Mo

 

Beta Blockers cause diabetes after long term use. I just got it after 15 years use. No one mentioned it prior (or that it was physically additive, more big pharma sins)

 

I have a question, have you ever been able to withdraw from Beta blockers?

 

I want to NOW but I know it's gonna be dangerous.

[[Wo...]]

Mentor, did you start beta blockers for high BP, or palps, or both? I'm just curious because I have both, and probably have to go on some form of medication and I want to get educated before I take anything. Thanks.

[[me...]]

Started for hypertension. The tachycardia events started a few weeks after I started taking them. Obviously the best remedy was to take more.

 

It would have to be sever condition to get me to take these monsters with what I now know.

 

Pals is pretty broad, can you be more specifics?

[[Wo...]]

Yeah, thanks for the reply. I've had PAC/PVCs every day since about Dec. 2013, when I got below .5mg of Klonopin. I usually have hundreds of them. Since the docs have assured me they are benign, I have refused medication for them. Now that I consistently have high blood pressure though, I probably can't avoid medication, because as we all know high blood pressure is a serious medical concern and shouldn't be messed with.

[[me...]]

Yeah, thanks for the reply. I've had PAC/PVCs every day since about Dec. 2013, when I got below .5mg of Klonopin. I usually have hundreds of them. Since the docs have assured me they are benign, I have refused medication for them. Now that I consistently have high blood pressure though, I probably can't avoid medication, because as we all know high blood pressure is a serious medical concern and shouldn't be messed with.

 

 

You might want to read the latest on Beta Blockers. They are no longer recommended as a first line med for hypertension. (we are over a decade behind Europe in making this reevaluation)

 

Believe me, I know all about blood pressure spikes. I have literally set records. Maybe a simple water pill while tapering and for the first few months after? Talk to your doctor obviously but also take charge, use him as a consultant. 

 

and yeah, my heart did everything imaginable. Twice they (ER docs) were convinced I was having a heart attack and were befuddled when the blood tests came back ok.

 

Like I said, work it out with your doctor but I would not take a beta blocker for PVC's. and yes, I have had as many as every second beat a PVC for sustained periods. When you get into sustained tachycardia at over 200 bpm, they you realize how pedestrian even hundreds of PVC's a day are.

[[Wo...]]

Thanks mentor. It sounds like you've been through a lot. I hope you're feeling better.

 

I'm definitely going to look at other options besides beta blockers. I'm not really worried about the palps anymore, just the blood pressure.

 

Also, I tapered a long time ago. I'm actually in my 9th month off, just to clear any confusion.

 

Thanks again.

[[Ha...]]

I figured d my heart palps are gone for weeks then boom at 15 MO the still hitting me. I try to say it was something I ate or drank or bla bla... I do take a beta blocker when I can't slow my heart rate down, for me I cannot take them daily, they make me worse and Bo goes to low.... as per dr dr as needed, however I had 60 pills I have used 6 in a year.... guess that's not to bad..  I never take em daily.. mentor are ur palps gone? I'm 15 months the off thought they would be gone.... I had ekg, stress test, Holter for 2 Months, ultrasound all last year my heart is fine... go figure

 

[[me...]]

mentor are ur palps gone? I'm 15 months the off thought they would be gone.... I had ekg, stress test, Holter for 2 Months, ultrasound all last year my heart is fine... go figure

 

At 15 months off I was still being rushed to the hospital and being converted. Took a good 5 years to resolve about 90%. At 6 years, which I just passed, I'd call it 95% resolved.  I still never leave home without a cooler of ice water to shock the vagus in case.

 

It happens about every two months only at this point (the tachycardia) the PVC's are still daily.

 

 

[[Ha...]]

Mentor good to hear this honestly. .... what a pain to deal with. Just when I think they are gone they come back. Msg, hot spicy foods really piss  it off too... thanks for responding, do u ever use a beta blocker?

[[me...]]

Mentor good to hear this honestly. .... what a pain to deal with. Just when I think they are gone they come back. Msg, hot spicy foods really piss  it off too... thanks for responding, do u ever use a beta blocker?

 

Unfortunately, yes.

 

I have been on these things for 15 years. I was down to 12.5 mg a day but went up to 50 mg a day after being converted in the ER for the second time.

 

I would never have started with them if I knew what I know now.

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ha...]]

Just learned a new technique called a mudra!!! Next round I'm gonna try it. Have any of u heard about this and or tried it??? Google it, seems to good to be true..

[[Ha...]]

So last night I was woke up at 12 am heart going 120bpm... It took a hour for a whole attenolol to kick in, I was up all night freaking out, is this really normal?

[[no...]]

Hi all, I'm still rather be  here.. this heart stuff is making me crazy.. I'm not sure  what Palps vs pacs vs pvcs etc all mean ... pre benzo I would get a little flutter followed by a hard pound and they did some tests and said it was all good... so I lived with it a couple time a day and  it was no big deal.. now at nine  month  off three day ago I started getting this feeling like my heart stops.. not just in my chest, which by the way feels sore, but also when feeling my pulse it is beat beat beat then nothing when I feel this then back to beating.. what does  that sound like?

Last year when they were trying to figure out what was wrong with me I had all the tests including ultrasounds and some kind of bubble test and I have been assured my heart is fine .. but frankly this is the toughest thing to deal with.. it makes me  upset and tearful which I am sure makes  it happen more. Anybody there who can tell me this sounds normal?

Nomne

[[Wo...]]

Hi nomne. It's always best to see a cardiologist who can run all the tests. There's no way for any of us to know what that is. If I had to guess it sounds like the pause after a PAC/PVC. Mine does that all the time. Thousands of times a day sometimes. There extremely common in withdrawal, and even non benzo people. My cardio doc just told me the other day everyone will get them at some point in their life. A lot of people don't notice them. Unfortunately we're predisposed to getting them more. Also with the anxiety of WD we're more focused on our bodies. They are harmless though. Just annoying as hell. It's taken me a year to not worry about them, and they still get the best of me sometimes. Try to relax as best you can. You'll have less of them.  I hope you feel better soon. Get checked out!

 

They have a great thing now called a 30 day event monitor. You wear it and it sends the ecg to a center that is monitoring 24/7. They send it to your doc. It's very reassuring.

[[Wo...]]

So last night I was woke up at 12 am heart going 120bpm... It took a hour for a whole attenolol to kick in, I was up all night freaking out, is this really normal?

 

Happy, unfortunately I think this is all normal for benzo wd. Which isn't normal 

 

I'm still here suffering with you though! I hope you get some relief. Try not to worry.