~~The Bedridden Club~~

[[gr...]]

I hate the lethargy maybe more then the depression. It shouldnt be hard to take a shower. The lethargy is a symptom of the depression. Im a bum also.

 

Yes straw hair that falls out.

[[pr...]]

Hi buddies in suffering!

 

I dont know if I belong in this group.

I have been bedridden from the beginning although I dont know if my situation is like yours.

I can drive to the supermarket, do the laundry, cooking, washing the dishes but after that I feel exhausted and I have physical as well as psychological symptoms.

My muscle and/or bones will hurt, I would feel weak, depressed, mood swings, no motivation, all the goodies.

I used to be very organised and I was never a lazy person but now I fear doing simple chores because I know that I will feel bad afterwards.

I cant exercise because of the same reason, even walking is to much for me.

So, is this the normal bedridden, because I did not see other buddies like me, I am desperate and fear that Ill never recover and will spend my life as a potato couch. :'(

I dont have a problem before the activity, I feel up to eat and get caught up in that activity, the problem arises after the activity.

So I have the energy to go out, or have a workout and feel great doing it but after some hours my body will react and I will be burnt out.

 

hey verona,

 

i am a bit like you. i am mostly couch bound (where i also sleep at night) all day long. if i go out, it's just for 45 minutes to an hour for groceries or errands then it's back to resting. i get up at night and come on here but then mostly i am chair bound trying to distract with the show i record. if i didn't have the "How I met Your Mother" show that i record every night i would go out of my mind. they keep me company. otherwise, i don't really like watching TV. only good movies and there aren't any on. except "Her" is on tonight so i'm going to watch it again. it was really good with Joaquin Phoenix. i still can't sit at the piano and work on my music and sing like i wish i was doing 24/7 and walking is still very hard for me although most days i try to go out for just a 10 min walk because i lay and sit all day and night.

[[lo...]]

Hi Verona

 

I manage on 5-10 min slots of housework because I live alone so house is not getting dirty. I do the bare minimum - a little hoovering, a little dusting, no ironing except the duvet cover. I am in nightie 95% of the time. Unable to stand and cook so put something in the oven and microwave veggies. Eat lots of fresh fruit. No junk food.

 

Order shopping online.

 

Hair not been cut for 12 months and more.  :'( Unable to leave house.

 

Not lethargic or tired, just feel physically ill. I have the desire to do things.

 

I believe it will all gradually improve and I do not worry or feel guilty about it. It will come right.

 

Hugs

 

LF  .

 

 

[[Ve...]]

Hi guys!

How are you doing?

 

Yesterday was a bad day, stayed on the couch all the time, feeling depressed, did not wash the dishes, did not cook, ate whatever i found in the fridge.

Today I vacuum cleaned the whole house, I want to mop in the kitchen and livingroom, want to wash the dishes and take a bath.

I already started on the wrong foot, I vacuumed all the house with no breaks, now obviously Im tired.

 

Groovejuice, I too hate the lethargy and lack of motivation more than the depression, the depression comes and goes but the lack of motivation and lethargy are almost always present. :'(

 

Pretty, I watched How I met your mother, I need to watch comedy shows to distract myself, I dont have the patience to watch movies though, I watch documentaries too.

These series are very helpful, especially when I feel depressed they help me smile and feel a bit better.

I need to start walking again, like you say, even for 10 min.

 

Lookingforward, its so nice that you dont eat junk food, I stay away from junk food as well.

Actually I try having a clean diet, dont manage all the time because cooking meals from scratch is strenuous, but Im happy with the way I eat most of the times.

 

Hugs!

[[Na...]]

Hi guys!

How are you doing?

 

Yesterday was a bad day, stayed on the couch all the time, feeling depressed, did not wash the dishes, did not cook, ate whatever i found in the fridge.

Today I vacuum cleaned the whole house, I want to mop in the kitchen and livingroom, want to wash the dishes and take a bath.

I already started on the wrong foot, I vacuumed all the house with no breaks, now obviously Im tired.

 

Groovejuice, I too hate the lethargy and lack of motivation more than the depression, the depression comes and goes but the lack of motivation and lethargy are almost always present. :'(

 

Pretty, I watched How I met your mother, I need to watch comedy shows to distract myself, I dont have the patience to watch movies though, I watch documentaries too.

These series are very helpful, especially when I feel depressed they help me smile and feel a bit better.

I need to start walking again, like you say, even for 10 min.

 

Lookingforward, its so nice that you dont eat junk food, I stay away from junk food as well.

Actually I try having a clean diet, dont manage all the time because cooking meals from scratch is strenuous, but Im happy with the way I eat most of the times.

 

Hugs!

 

Hi Verona,

 

I think feeling depressed, unmotivated, lethargic are part of the HPA-Adrenal dysfunction most of us are dealing with. I believe these are clues that the body gives us in order to allow it to heal better and faster, as long as we respect them.

I think these symptoms act as a safety valve and are most likely there temporarily.

 

It seems that cortisol secretion or over secretion (during stress, excess physical activity, and more) is what sets us back from recovering our vitality fully. I think healing seems to require significant patience and immense amounts of rest in order to allow total healing to occur.

 

There seems to be a pattern from what I have noticed by reading a lot of people's observations here, that many setbacks take place in people that engage in strenuous exercise/physical activity and or are going through intense periods of stress in life. I think both of these situations involve cortisol oversecretion. I think avoiding strenuous exercise  is probably easier to do in most cases, but avoiding stress in life is probably much harder. Be that as it may, I think it is the reaction to stressful situations that can help us stay more calm and likely continue to move steadily toward healing.

 

It seems like meditation may give the ability to keep one's distance emotionally from stressful events as they occur. I think one learns to not over react when stress does arrive if they engage in meditation regularly. I think it can also help to learn to pace oneself with activities, take frequent brakes to rest etc. I think it is all in how the mind perceives the moment and how able it is to dissociate from all these factors that may harm us, no matter how tempting they may seem in the moment.

 

I have read that one gains strength in adrenal fatigue / dysfunction, by "resting into" their improvements. In other words by resisting the temptation to do more as they feel better shortly after the improvement has been noticed. This probably varies in duration from person to person, but if one sees improvement in physical stamina, it is probably best to stay on the same activity / stress levels if possible for another 1-2 weeks in order to seal the improvement in a more permanent way. I can't quote you any studies on this, it is just my gut feeling

 

I hope all of us will continue to heal and achieve full recovery soon

 

[[Ve...]]

Hi Naturalhealing!

Thank you for your kind response.

This is exactly what I believe the cause of wd is, the HPA axis dysfunction and my opinion is that whoever had problems with the HPA before the benzos will have an even more difficult wd and probably become protracted, this is my case.

I read a lot about this subject and it all points to the hpa, not just benzo related, even thyroid function or immune system are connected with the hpa.

I had a traumatic childhood, so I suspect my HPA was malfunctioning from then, over the time when I had severe stress I would feel worse, thats how I ended up on the benzos because after a stressful event I did not manage to sleep anymore.

Of course the benzo messed things up even more so now Im here really fearing that Ill never recover.

Some weeks ago we were robbed and that was a huge stress for me, it still is, I can not call it quite PTSD but I am afraid that the thieves will come back and will break in while Im alone.

After that experience my health declined even more.

 

I am mostly bed ridden now, have no motivation, no interest, nothing.

 

I just started taking a supplement (stress care from himalaya) that its supposed to help with stress.

I am taking multiple glandular but am planning on buying hypothalamus glandular, people with adrenal fatigue use adrenal glandular but the adrenals are not malfunctioning per se, its almost always because of the hpa, and thats why I want a hypothalamus glandular, its pricey but I have a lot of faith in natural healing.

 

I follow a traditional diet (Weston A Price), eat as organic as possible, buy raw milk, make my own yogurt, make my own bone broth with real free range roosters (they are form a farmer and are really free) , eat sourdough bread, take turmeric, fermented cod liver oil from Green Pasture, take blackstrap molasses for the minerals and b vitamins, take organic raw coconut oil, use only coconut and real olive oil, use organic apple cider vinegar, drink freshly squeezed juices, orange juice or carrot+apple juice, buy real raw honey, I used bentonite clay, dont use regular deodorant anymore because of the aluminium, I made a lot of changes and I try to go back to basics, to have a traditional lifestyle the way grandma had.

Most importantly I never ever take pills again, not even pain killers, herbs are my healers now.

But still, no improvement in my health.

 

I am interested in what you are doing in this quest for health, I can imagine you resort to natural remedies since your nick is natural healing, and Im always interested in natural remedies

 

[[lo...]]

Hi Verona

 

I am sorry to hear you were robbed. That is so unfair at this time, at any time.

 

I have had 7 good days in a row. This is my first real breakthrough in 13 months. GOOD means no pain or discomfort or very little. My functioning has improved a tiny bit. The heaviness in my brain is still the same but every time it lifts a little my physical functioning improves.  It will just take time for this to resolve also. Slept 7 hours last night.

 

I have made no attempt to read about HPA axis dysfunction etc. I can't concentrate. I have done nothing to help my recovery with regard to diet. I just try to be positive, laugh a lot, distract and wait!!

 

I spent 10 years chasing a cure for IBS and tried everything.  I had to retire early because of it. After I retired I visited a chiropractor who cured me in 6 weeks.  My spine had been pressing on nerves leading to the gut. Kind of put me off trying to get to the bottom of things.  :'(

 

I hope everyone will get a window real soon.

 

Hugs

 

LF 

 

 

 

 

[[Na...]]

Hi Naturalhealing!

Thank you for your kind response.

This is exactly what I believe the cause of wd is, the HPA axis dysfunction and my opinion is that whoever had problems with the HPA before the benzos will have an even more difficult wd and probably become protracted, this is my case.

I read a lot about this subject and it all points to the hpa, not just benzo related, even thyroid function or immune system are connected with the hpa.

I had a traumatic childhood, so I suspect my HPA was malfunctioning from then, over the time when I had severe stress I would feel worse, thats how I ended up on the benzos because after a stressful event I did not manage to sleep anymore.

Of course the benzo messed things up even more so now Im here really fearing that Ill never recover.

Some weeks ago we were robbed and that was a huge stress for me, it still is, I can not call it quite PTSD but I am afraid that the thieves will come back and will break in while Im alone.

After that experience my health declined even more.

 

I am mostly bed ridden now, have no motivation, no interest, nothing.

 

I just started taking a supplement (stress care from himalaya) that its supposed to help with stress.

I am taking multiple glandular but am planning on buying hypothalamus glandular, people with adrenal fatigue use adrenal glandular but the adrenals are not malfunctioning per se, its almost always because of the hpa, and thats why I want a hypothalamus glandular, its pricey but I have a lot of faith in natural healing.

 

I follow a traditional diet (Weston A Price), eat as organic as possible, buy raw milk, make my own yogurt, make my own bone broth with real free range roosters (they are form a farmer and are really free) , eat sourdough bread, take turmeric, fermented cod liver oil from Green Pasture, take blackstrap molasses for the minerals and b vitamins, take organic raw coconut oil, use only coconut and real olive oil, use organic apple cider vinegar, drink freshly squeezed juices, orange juice or carrot+apple juice, buy real raw honey, I used bentonite clay, dont use regular deodorant anymore because of the aluminium, I made a lot of changes and I try to go back to basics, to have a traditional lifestyle the way grandma had.

Most importantly I never ever take pills again, not even pain killers, herbs are my healers now.

But still, no improvement in my health.

 

I am interested in what you are doing in this quest for health, I can imagine you resort to natural remedies since your nick is natural healing, and Im always interested in natural remedies

 

Verona,

 

I am sorry you had to deal with a home invasion and being robbed. Certainly this was very stressful and set you back as you said. Your cortisol levels probably sky rocketed, and as a result your HPA took a hit again.

 

By the way, cortisol is a positive allosteric GABA A receptor agonist. So are benzodiazepines, many herbs including curcumin, and many B vitamins, magnesium and other minerals. GABAergic neurons comprise 100 % of the hypothalamus part of the HPA. I am attaching a link to a research article that explains how HPA is regulated by steroid hormones and vice versa. This is the most important article that I believe helped me understand better what is needed to heal from all this fatigue, and low energy dysfunction.

 

This is the full article :

 

  http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fncel.2012.00004/full

 

Basically the "take home" messages in my opinion are:

  1 normalize your cortisol levels (adjust physical activity or do just the right amount, (trial and error), and stay on the same activity level for weeks even if you feel that you can do more. If you change it, do it by a bit at a time and evaluate. Same principle as weaning yourself of benzos. Do not make a change / cut, till you are stable first on a certain dosage. Same applies with activity.

2 do not take any external hormones. That confuses the HPA and it cannot up regulate/normalize. All glandulars have from trace to significant amount of hormones in them. Glandular hormone content varies a lot even from one bottle to another. I have felt much better since quitting adrenal cortex after 2 months. It is important to wean off the glandulars because if you don't, you may go through withdrawal again and get kindled. This most likely applies to any GABAergic pill, medicine, or supplement.

I found raw milk destabilizing. It has a lot of progesterone in it, especially if the cow is pregnant, or where she is on her cycle. That will down regulate the HPA by stimulating it. You will feel better for a while, but you will go through withdrawal again once you stop it. I know this sounds nuts but it happened to me. I stopped raw milk and within 3-4 days I got hot flashes, palpitations, insomnia and anxiety. Moreover, and unfortunately, all hormone containing foods and supplements raise cancer risk.

 

3 avoid most herbs and supplements as many do have HPA activity. This includes, calcium, magnesium, B complex vitamins, and a lot more.

 

4 meditation and relaxation techniques will reduce your circulating cortisol and thus up regulate your HPA axis. Try to do a few sessions per day, and the longer they last the better.

 

5 Avoid all pharmaceutical drugs like the devil, unless it is a life or death situation and no other choice is possible. Avoid fluroquinolone antibiotics for ever. They can cause permanent damage to the brain and nerves. Most doctors are "asleep on the wheel" on this issue. Avoid steroid creams and any form of prescribed hormones.

 

5 Avoid blood sugar fluctuations like the plague. The reason is your cortisol levels will spike. Another name for cortisol is : glucocorticoid homone. The reason is it regulates your blood sugar. Too low or too high blood sugar will get your cortisol to spike in order to normalize it, and as a result your HPA will down regulate again. Effectively what this means is avoid all sugary drinks and foods, fruits, fruit juices and anything that will spike your sugar. Whole grain in moderation can be ok. Some people can have more or less depending on how they feel. Avoiding wheat is usually better. Reason is most wheat nowadays is highly hybridized and most people are intolerant of it. If you can find heirloom type of wheat from 50-60 years ago that's much better, but if you have already been sensitized even that will not work. How do you know you are sensitized? You have to do a gliadin stool test. If your levels are above normal that's it.

 

I would caution you with Weston Price diet. Please take a look at this article if you want to know why

 

http://www.drlwilson.com/ARTICLES/PRICE.htm

 

Really the final message is : less is better in my experience when it comes external pills or remedies. I think many of us have been hammering our HPA for years and benzos were just the final straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

 

Supplement wise, I am only taking digestive enzymes (betaine Hcl with pepsin), but once my protein digestion is better I plan on weaning off promptly. Also I take a couple of omega-3 capsules on and off, and once my cholesterol looks a little better I will stop all together.

Another way to get omega 3 is to eat some sardines a few times a week, and when I do I don't take the supplement.

Also I take some selenium ( food source) for cancer prevention as i had a recent scare with some lymph nodes.

 

Sorry for the lengthy response, it is just that I wanted to be thorough in giving you as much information as I know. We've got to hang in there tough and be in a supportive environment as much as possible and things will get much better

 

Warm regards to all.

 

NH

[[Ve...]]

Hi LF, Im glad you're feeling better!

I hope you will maintain the improvements!

The IBS experience was a dramatic one, glad the chiropractor helped.

 

NH, I know dr Wilsons work, have his book on healing the adrenals, I dont agree with his diet recommendations though, Ive read several of his articles besides the book and do not agree with the diet hes proposing.

 

I think Weston A Price was a genius and he does not actually recommend a specific diet, there lies the ingenuity, following a wap diet is not following a fad diet but eating traditionally according to where one was born, the available foods according to geography and culture.

Some time ago people just used to eat foods according to availability, season, culture, etc, now we need doctors telling us that that specific food is bad and that specific food should be avoidod and I dont agree with that, I think people were much wiser than what we are today and knew intuitively what to eat in order to be healthy.

 

The work of WAP is the 1st one that made me stop and rethink the nutrition dogma, I stopped following advice from nutritionists that demonize certain foods (paleo, raw vegan diets, etc) and started thinking what my grandparents ate, what were they avoiding, how were they preparing their food and how healthy were they.

I dont know how it was in the Usa, but back in europe I can tell you that people were very healthy, no cancer, no eyesight problems, no fractures, no thyroid problems, no heart problems and so on, all these changed when industrialized food entered the scene, just how WAP says it would be, so thats why I know the work of Price is good because I was big enough, when industrialized food entered our diets, to remember what society used to eat prior, their health level and the food they ate.

 

Prior to the incident with the robbery I had just started taking the fermented cod liver oil and I must say that I felt great, even better than before benzos, I was optimistic that a change is possible, unfortunately it was not long lived but even in the most dramatic days after the robbery I was still somehow protected by all my supplements as things could have been way worse.

 

Ive thought about these natural supplements messing with my healing so I stopped taking them on several occasions and the result was that I felt even worse, I dont just randomly take whatever sounds good but take them on a trial and error base, for instance I can not take ashwagandha, it makes me feel sick, I can not drink chamomile and lemon balm tea as it will keep me up.

 

I do not get cold anymore, I am pretty healthy except the hpa, people are getting the cold/flu around me but I never do and I guess for supplements it is very important to pay attention to feedback, I feel worse without my diet regimen.

 

I dont know how to deal with the psychological stress, I do pray and try to meditate but its not enough.

My main problems are psychological ones and that is normal considering that we are much more sensitive because of the hpa and its a vicious cycle, psychological stress affects the hpa and in turn the hpa affects how we handle stress.

 

 

I agree 100% with avoiding medicines and I stay away from big pharma, really, the last pill I took (an ibuprofen) was years ago and though I had some health problems over the course of these years I never resorted to pills.

 

Hugs to all

[[ba...]]

Hi Naturalhealing!

Thank you for your kind response.

This is exactly what I believe the cause of wd is, the HPA axis dysfunction and my opinion is that whoever had problems with the HPA before the benzos will have an even more difficult wd and probably become protracted, this is my case.

I read a lot about this subject and it all points to the hpa, not just benzo related, even thyroid function or immune system are connected with the hpa.

I had a traumatic childhood, so I suspect my HPA was malfunctioning from then, over the time when I had severe stress I would feel worse, thats how I ended up on the benzos because after a stressful event I did not manage to sleep anymore.

Of course the benzo messed things up even more so now Im here really fearing that Ill never recover.

Some weeks ago we were robbed and that was a huge stress for me, it still is, I can not call it quite PTSD but I am afraid that the thieves will come back and will break in while Im alone.

After that experience my health declined even more.

 

I am mostly bed ridden now, have no motivation, no interest, nothing.

 

I just started taking a supplement (stress care from himalaya) that its supposed to help with stress.

I am taking multiple glandular but am planning on buying hypothalamus glandular, people with adrenal fatigue use adrenal glandular but the adrenals are not malfunctioning per se, its almost always because of the hpa, and thats why I want a hypothalamus glandular, its pricey but I have a lot of faith in natural healing.

 

I follow a traditional diet (Weston A Price), eat as organic as possible, buy raw milk, make my own yogurt, make my own bone broth with real free range roosters (they are form a farmer and are really free) , eat sourdough bread, take turmeric, fermented cod liver oil from Green Pasture, take blackstrap molasses for the minerals and b vitamins, take organic raw coconut oil, use only coconut and real olive oil, use organic apple cider vinegar, drink freshly squeezed juices, orange juice or carrot+apple juice, buy real raw honey, I used bentonite clay, dont use regular deodorant anymore because of the aluminium, I made a lot of changes and I try to go back to basics, to have a traditional lifestyle the way grandma had.

Most importantly I never ever take pills again, not even pain killers, herbs are my healers now.

But still, no improvement in my health.

 

I am interested in what you are doing in this quest for health, I can imagine you resort to natural remedies since your nick is natural healing, and Im always interested in natural remedies

 

I'm sorry Verona.  What a terrible thing to have gone through. 

 

I still take a multivitamin every few days or so, but I HATE sticking any kind of pill in my mouth now.  How am I to trust what unknown inert fillers constitute a vitamin pill these days?  Where is the manufactures country of origin?  Who is responsible for testing and regulating supplements in the U.S.?  Is it the FDA? 

[[...]]

bump

i hate my bed , i feel like I'm married to my bed...... :ticked off:

:idiot: :crazy: :tickedoff:

[[Na...]]

Hi LF, Im glad you're feeling better!

I hope you will maintain the improvements!

The IBS experience was a dramatic one, glad the chiropractor helped.

 

NH, I know dr Wilsons work, have his book on healing the adrenals, I dont agree with his diet recommendations though, Ive read several of his articles besides the book and do not agree with the diet hes proposing.

 

I think Weston A Price was a genius and he does not actually recommend a specific diet, there lies the ingenuity, following a wap diet is not following a fad diet but eating traditionally according to where one was born, the available foods according to geography and culture.

Some time ago people just used to eat foods according to availability, season, culture, etc, now we need doctors telling us that that specific food is bad and that specific food should be avoidod and I dont agree with that, I think people were much wiser than what we are today and knew intuitively what to eat in order to be healthy.

 

The work of WAP is the 1st one that made me stop and rethink the nutrition dogma, I stopped following advice from nutritionists that demonize certain foods (paleo, raw vegan diets, etc) and started thinking what my grandparents ate, what were they avoiding, how were they preparing their food and how healthy were they.

I dont know how it was in the Usa, but back in europe I can tell you that people were very healthy, no cancer, no eyesight problems, no fractures, no thyroid problems, no heart problems and so on, all these changed when industrialized food entered the scene, just how WAP says it would be, so thats why I know the work of Price is good because I was big enough, when industrialized food entered our diets, to remember what society used to eat prior, their health level and the food they ate.

 

Prior to the incident with the robbery I had just started taking the fermented cod liver oil and I must say that I felt great, even better than before benzos, I was optimistic that a change is possible, unfortunately it was not long lived but even in the most dramatic days after the robbery I was still somehow protected by all my supplements as things could have been way worse.

 

Ive thought about these natural supplements messing with my healing so I stopped taking them on several occasions and the result was that I felt even worse, I dont just randomly take whatever sounds good but take them on a trial and error base, for instance I can not take ashwagandha, it makes me feel sick, I can not drink chamomile and lemon balm tea as it will keep me up.

 

I do not get cold anymore, I am pretty healthy except the hpa, people are getting the cold/flu around me but I never do and I guess for supplements it is very important to pay attention to feedback, I feel worse without my diet regimen.

 

I dont know how to deal with the psychological stress, I do pray and try to meditate but its not enough.

My main problems are psychological ones and that is normal considering that we are much more sensitive because of the hpa and its a vicious cycle, psychological stress affects the hpa and in turn the hpa affects how we handle stress.

 

 

I agree 100% with avoiding medicines and I stay away from big pharma, really, the last pill I took (an ibuprofen) was years ago and though I had some health problems over the course of these years I never resorted to pills.

 

Hugs to all

 

Hi Verona,

 

I think you are talking about Dr James Wilson. I have a lot of reservations about his treatment approach as well. The article I referenced was from Dr Larry Wilson.

 

I do agree that ancestral nutrition is probably the best way to go. Going back to our roots is usually best way to eat.

 

Regards,

 

NH

 

 

 

 

[[pr...]]

Hi LF, Im glad you're feeling better!

I hope you will maintain the improvements!

The IBS experience was a dramatic one, glad the chiropractor helped.

 

NH, I know dr Wilsons work, have his book on healing the adrenals, I dont agree with his diet recommendations though, Ive read several of his articles besides the book and do not agree with the diet hes proposing.

 

I think Weston A Price was a genius and he does not actually recommend a specific diet, there lies the ingenuity, following a wap diet is not following a fad diet but eating traditionally according to where one was born, the available foods according to geography and culture.

Some time ago people just used to eat foods according to availability, season, culture, etc, now we need doctors telling us that that specific food is bad and that specific food should be avoidod and I dont agree with that, I think people were much wiser than what we are today and knew intuitively what to eat in order to be healthy.

 

The work of WAP is the 1st one that made me stop and rethink the nutrition dogma, I stopped following advice from nutritionists that demonize certain foods (paleo, raw vegan diets, etc) and started thinking what my grandparents ate, what were they avoiding, how were they preparing their food and how healthy were they.

I dont know how it was in the Usa, but back in europe I can tell you that people were very healthy, no cancer, no eyesight problems, no fractures, no thyroid problems, no heart problems and so on, all these changed when industrialized food entered the scene, just how WAP says it would be, so thats why I know the work of Price is good because I was big enough, when industrialized food entered our diets, to remember what society used to eat prior, their health level and the food they ate.

 

Prior to the incident with the robbery I had just started taking the fermented cod liver oil and I must say that I felt great, even better than before benzos, I was optimistic that a change is possible, unfortunately it was not long lived but even in the most dramatic days after the robbery I was still somehow protected by all my supplements as things could have been way worse.

 

Ive thought about these natural supplements messing with my healing so I stopped taking them on several occasions and the result was that I felt even worse, I dont just randomly take whatever sounds good but take them on a trial and error base, for instance I can not take ashwagandha, it makes me feel sick, I can not drink chamomile and lemon balm tea as it will keep me up.

 

I do not get cold anymore, I am pretty healthy except the hpa, people are getting the cold/flu around me but I never do and I guess for supplements it is very important to pay attention to feedback, I feel worse without my diet regimen.

 

I dont know how to deal with the psychological stress, I do pray and try to meditate but its not enough.

My main problems are psychological ones and that is normal considering that we are much more sensitive because of the hpa and its a vicious cycle, psychological stress affects the hpa and in turn the hpa affects how we handle stress.

 

 

I agree 100% with avoiding medicines and I stay away from big pharma, really, the last pill I took (an ibuprofen) was years ago and though I had some health problems over the course of these years I never resorted to pills.

 

Hugs to all

 

Hi Verona,

 

I think you are talking about Dr James Wilson. I have a lot of reservations about his treatment approach as well. The article I referenced was from Dr Larry Wilson.

 

I do agree that ancestral nutrition is probably the best way to go. Going back to our roots is usually best way to eat.

 

Regards,

 

NH

 

NH,

 

i've read almost all of Lawrence Wilson, MD's website. and boy, most of the things he recommends to do and eat or not eat is really tough to do all of that. especially all he says about the sex hormones and how to stop having so much sex hormones be released. what are your thoughts about being so strict and how the hell is anyone supposed to do all of that?

 

pretty

[[Na...]]

Pretty,

 

I think his dietary advice is most likely very beneficial. Most of us have depleted bodies at this point with digestion issues weight issues, fatigue etc.

 

I think one can apply as much as possible to their life as best they can.

 

I disagree with many of his supplement recommendations though as he does not take into account Benzo withdrawal in my opinion.

 

The advantage L Wilson has over others is that he continuously updates his program. What worked 5, 10, 20, or 100 years ago is not likely going to work in this rapidly changing schizophrenic era

 

If I was not going through benzo withdrawal and could take any supplement without fear of having setbacks, I would definitely follow his program 100 %

 

Just my opinion.

[[Ve...]]

I am feeling very tired today, I have pain in the kidney area and in the knee area.

What brought this on? The cooking I did yesterday.

Ok, I want to take it slow, but even cooking is very tiring for me, what can I do?

 

I realise that I must rest, rest, rest, but what can I do about the cooking and dish washing?

And yesterday my husband helped me, he cleaned some veggies and washed the dishes and still it was too much for me.

 

We have a woodburner for heat and making fire is tiring as well but theres no way I can escape that because we have no other source of heating.

Im afraid I wont be able to heal since I have to do some minor activities that are and feel extremely tiring for me.

[[Na...]]

I am feeling very tired today, I have pain in the kidney area and in the knee area.

What brought this on? The cooking I did yesterday.

Ok, I want to take it slow, but even cooking is very tiring for me, what can I do?

 

I realise that I must rest, rest, rest, but what can I do about the cooking and dish washing?

And yesterday my husband helped me, he cleaned some veggies and washed the dishes and still it was too much for me.

 

We have a woodburner for heat and making fire is tiring as well but theres no way I can escape that because we have no other source of heating.

Im afraid I wont be able to heal since I have to do some minor activities that are and feel extremely tiring for me.

 

Hi Verona,

 

I can understand what you are going through. I have been through similar experiences too.

 

Can you break the activity down into 5 minutes on 15 minutes off?

 

Is it possible to get any help with cooking and other chores from other people?

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Hope this is a short lived set back.

 

Warm regards,

NH

[[Ve...]]

I am feeling very tired today, I have pain in the kidney area and in the knee area.

What brought this on? The cooking I did yesterday.

Ok, I want to take it slow, but even cooking is very tiring for me, what can I do?

 

I realise that I must rest, rest, rest, but what can I do about the cooking and dish washing?

And yesterday my husband helped me, he cleaned some veggies and washed the dishes and still it was too much for me.

 

We have a woodburner for heat and making fire is tiring as well but theres no way I can escape that because we have no other source of heating.

Im afraid I wont be able to heal since I have to do some minor activities that are and feel extremely tiring for me.

 

Hi Verona,

 

I can understand what you are going through. I have been through similar experiences too.

 

Can you break the activity down into 5 minutes on 15 minutes off?

 

Is it possible to get any help with cooking and other chores from other people?

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Hope this is a short lived set back.

 

Warm regards,

NH

 

NH, thank you for your response!

It has helped a lot, I was afraid that there was something wrong with me, that only I experience these symptoms, off course Im not glad that you felt the same way, but I was freaking out that only I have had these symptoms from all the forum.

 

How are you now?

Are you managing a moderate active lifestyle?

 

I keep on reading that everything must be put on hold with an emphasis on rest but its so frustrating, thats not a life, its torture.

 

I will try to break down the activity but also this is difficult as the wd brought me also a very nice OCD and if I start doing something then I cant stop..obviously I need to make a lot of changes.

 

Today I was in such pain that even breathing was hard, i was forcing myself to breath deeply or my breathing would be superficial and I know that superficial breathing is stressing for the body.

[[Na...]]

I am feeling very tired today, I have pain in the kidney area and in the knee area.

What brought this on? The cooking I did yesterday.

Ok, I want to take it slow, but even cooking is very tiring for me, what can I do?

 

I realise that I must rest, rest, rest, but what can I do about the cooking and dish washing?

And yesterday my husband helped me, he cleaned some veggies and washed the dishes and still it was too much for me.

 

We have a woodburner for heat and making fire is tiring as well but theres no way I can escape that because we have no other source of heating.

Im afraid I wont be able to heal since I have to do some minor activities that are and feel extremely tiring for me.

 

Hi Verona,

 

I can understand what you are going through. I have been through similar experiences too.

 

Can you break the activity down into 5 minutes on 15 minutes off?

 

Is it possible to get any help with cooking and other chores from other people?

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Hope this is a short lived set back.

 

Warm regards,

NH

 

NH, thank you for your response!

It has helped a lot, I was afraid that there was something wrong with me, that only I experience these symptoms, off course Im not glad that you felt the same way, but I was freaking out that only I have had these symptoms from all the forum.

 

How are you now?

Are you managing a moderate active lifestyle?

 

I keep on reading that everything must be put on hold with an emphasis on rest but its so frustrating, thats not a life, its torture.

 

I will try to break down the activity but also this is difficult as the wd brought me also a very nice OCD and if I start doing something then I cant stop..obviously I need to make a lot of changes.

 

Today I was in such pain that even breathing was hard, i was forcing myself to breath deeply or my breathing would be superficial and I know that superficial breathing is stressing for the body.

 

Hi Verona,

 

You can also try sitting down while you cook close to the stove or otherwise if that is possible.

 

In any event, I am doing better yes, but I am not "pushing he envelope" too much.

I am 23 months out. I made the mistake of going back to work not fully better 6 months post benzo cessation, and I lasted for about a year. My job required a lot of talking and standing repeatedly throughout the day, as well as staying on my feet occasionally for extended time. Plus there is a certain degree of stress in dealing with the customers. I was also taking adrenal cortex, and drinking i glass of raw milk which was a great temporary boost, but it all came down crashing after about a year of extra physical and job related stress. It all translates to increased cortisol levels and HPA axis down regulation, plus the supplements. I loved my job having been there for many years, but I just could not continue the same approach and expect to get better. Something had to change.

 

I am about 4 months out now from quitting my job and I feel better. My biggest gain came after stopping the glandular and the magnesium.  My sleep varies from 6-9 hrs per night unless I have a splitting migraine.  The twitches and the skin burning are gradually going away. The biggest problem is being dizzy, hypotensive, and having low activity tolerance. But these are slowly improving too. I can go to the grocery store and spend about 15 minutes walking around, then back to the car and home. I could probably do more but I am really taking my time as best as I can to allow the gains to "stick". If I have not been through too much physically or emotionally on a certain day I may go out for a walk for about 7-8 minutes usually around 8 or 9 pm.

 

I think it is really important to stay patient and optimistic. Also one has to get out of the body's way and let it heal. That's why I stopped most supplements that I was on. It seems to be working.

 

As far as getting the mind in a better mode and beat OCD, may I suggest some breathing meditation? Here is a link that describes how to do it. I think it is time well spent.

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/breathmed.html

 

I think and hope we will all heal as long as we are able to make those changes that will allow the body to do it's job, and avoid any major negative surprises in our health. It is not easy to do this many times simply because we may not know what to do or are reluctant to do it. I think Dr Ashton's manual pretty much covers the majority of what we need to do in order to heal. It is a process though and I think it is important to improvise when errors or successes come up.

 

Best regards,

 

NH

[[Ve...]]

Im sorry you had to quit your job but am happy that you managed to take this time off in order to take care of yourself.

I can imagine there are people who cant afford to quit, though I cant imagine how anyone could work under these circumstances.

 

I'll print your reply to remind me that I have to set some limits, having chaotic activity obviously did not help, even created more problems.

 

It is tough because I have to drive my husband to work, he does not drive, there is no bus and his job is approximately 8-9 miles away.

Driving him to work is tiring for me, thats why he sleeps in his office, he has a big office (2 rooms, in one of the rooms he has 2 big couches) but then when hes missing I am constantly stressed that the burglars will enter the house and I cant go to sleep till theres light outside, I feel trapped because no alternative works for me.

 

I deal also with a great deal of stress, last year I moved here from another country and have not adapted yet, miss my country, my hometown, my house, dont speak the language so cant communicate with the locals and this adds tremendous psychological stress to me.

i feel Im in a dead end with no chances of recovery because theres no recovery with this amount of psychological stress.

I am very lonely and theres no one here to help us, when we were robbed I painfully got it how lonely we are here and that we cant call anybody for help, we have to deal with things by ourselves and thats another psychological stress to know you have no one to turn to in time of crisis.

 

I am so frustrated, I am sure theres a way out and know the steps needed to recover but worry I wont get there with the life Im living at the moment.

[[Na...]]

Verona,

 

Yes It sounds like you are in a difficult situation.

 

You need to be in a supportive environment in order to heal as quickly as possible.

 

I absolutely hated quitting my job. In fact I fought "tooth and nail" to stay employed for a year. Dragging myself out of the house every morning, and taking a bunch of pills in order to try to get through the day. Some docs offered or suggested that I should increase the Adrenal Cortex, or do other types of unproven (in my opinion) therapies if I wanted to keep my job. Deep down inside I knew these approaches do not address the fundamental causes of the problem.

 

HPA axis dysfunction and its many other names ( nervous breakdown, neurasthenia, chronic fatigue, and more) have been around for thousands of years. Once I had a reasonable understanding of how to approach this, I had to bite the bullet and make the difficult decision to make room for healing.

 

I think more or less you are facing a similar decision. You may need to go back home for a while in order to give your body a chance to heal in a supportive / stress free environment. Getting away from stress and resting continuously is the only sure way out of this mess that I know.

 

i wish you all the best in this, but you sound very lucid and fully aware of your situation, which is a big plus.

 

Best regards,

 

NH

 

 

[[Ve...]]

NH, is there maybe a chance you can get your old job back after you get better?

 

You've read my mind, I was actually thinking of going home in the spring and to go with my mother in my grandparents house in the countryside where I would just rest and my mother would take care of the cooking and cleaning.

 

What other pills were you taking in the year you were working?

I know that adrenal glandular is not guaranteed to work on everybody, I did not try it because Im afraid I will have a bad reaction to it like I had to ashwagandha.

The stress free supp I tried the other day did not work, I knew it was risky cause it has aswagandha among other herbs, so that supp is gone now.

I decided that I will continue only with fermented cod liver oil (massive improvement after starting it, and after all these years feeling for the 1st time optimistic about future, unfortunately run out of it, have to reorder) , turmeric (sometimes i can actually feel its antidepressant effect in my brain), black strapmolasses for the minerals and coconut oil.

I was never a fan of synthetic supp which are also produced by pharmaceutical companies..there goes my trust, everything I take is natural, actual food, I really dont think vitamin pills can help because we have a poor understanding of nature and will never be able to replicate the ratios of vitamins and minerals naturally occurring in fruits, veggies.

 

Is your family supportive?

My husband understands the wd, so does my mother, the rest cant imagine what Im going through.

How did you manage to keep in touch with friends?

I see my life ruined in the aspect as well, if I go out I cant sit a lot of time as sitting will bring a massive wave later, I tried going to restaurants but ended up feeling very uncomfortable, of course i cant tell my friends what is wrong with me because they wont understand so I tell them I suffer from hypothyroidism (which is actually true, but that is because of the hpa).

 

Do you eat enough animal protein?

I noticed a massive decline in my health after a fast, it was out of religious beliefs (orthodox lent) and in that period (about 4-5 weeks) did not eat any animal protein (no eggs, milk, etc) and after reading in several places that adrenals need protein came to the conclusion that it must be true, at least it was in my case.

Even now Im not eating enough protein, must squeeze more protein in my diet, my major protein sources are eggs and milk.

Should eat more meat but am afraid of conventional meat with all the hormones and antibiotics, I buy free range roosters from a farm to make my bonebroth and once in a while organic red meat but its really expensive and cant afford it more often.

 

Take care!

 

 

[[Na...]]

Verona,

 

It will be nice if I can go back, even if it is part time. We will see. Time will tell. This time around I hope to be healed first before I attempt to go back.

 

I was taking some vitamin c with minerals and bioflavonoids etc, adrenal cortex with hydrocortisone, also some alpha lipoic acid. magnesium, methyl-folate, selenium omega 3, probiotics, and digestive acid. The adrenal cortex and the Mg were the main GABAergic ones so I stopped those.

 

My family understands the basics fortunately, but they live far away. My girlfriend has been helping me with cooking and house chores, and that has been a blessing.

 

My social life has diminished significantly. Even talking on the phone for periods of time can weaken me. Now that is getting better as well. Overall I have only kept in touch with very few people.

 

Food wise, I believe it is important to eat animal protein. I feel much better as well when I do that. Meat is rich in B vitamins, and minerals. I try to follow Larry Wilson's recommendations as much as possible.

 

My strength is getting better for the most part, but I remain dizzy especially after meals and when I stand up ( low BP).

 

Last night for the first time I had some brain vibrations at about one every 1/2 second and kept waking up the first few hours. I took a probiotic and went back to sleep.Have you ever experienced vibrations like that?

 

I wish everyone patience and persistence as we heal through this.

 

NH

 

 

 

[[Ve...]]

Hi NH,

Im sure you;ll manage just fine once you heal.

I think this experience makes us stronger, I have more faith in me now, even though the reality is contradicting my belief, but I realised that I am a fighter, I dont give up even though the circumstances are really harsh, so we are very powerfull, its no joke what we're going through and I think we'll be like the phoenix rising from its ashes once we recover and then the sky will be the limit.

 

I never experienced these vibrations, I keep reading about them on the forum and cant even imagine how awful it must be to have something like that.

The dizziness is rare in my case but when I am hit with a dizzy episode its no joke, I have to be careful to not fell down, everything becomes black around me and I feel like my heart is pulling me down.

 

Dont have also a lot of tinnitus, very rarely and it lasts only a few seconds.

 

I guess my symptoms are more psychological than physical.

 

Another big big problem is delayed sleep syndrome, I go to sleep in the morning, I managed to push my hours sleep between 2-4 am before the burglary but the stress Ive been through after has changed my sleep and now go to sleep around 7 in the morning, this is very depressing.

I tried everything to change it, sleep hygiene, staying awake in order to go to sleep at a reasonable hour, nothing worked.

This, too, is connected with the hpa and I've read about people who had good results with hypothalamus glandular and thats why I want to try it but have to postpone it for the moment as it is pricey and we have lots of expenses now.

 

Take care.

[[pr...]]

Last night for the first time I had some brain vibrations at about one every 1/2 second and kept waking up the first few hours. I took a probiotic and went back to sleep.Have you ever experienced vibrations like that?

 

NH,

 

the brain symptoms are my absolute worst and i am so scared that they won't ever stop. i will be going into my 27th month and i have a vibration as well as major squeezing and pulling all the way over to the left side -- in this left lower corner. it literally hasn't stopped since i did the cold turkey 31 months ago. i took my last rescue benzo dose 27 months ago. i am so unbelievably frightened that this is permanent. i never ever stops. i doesn't stop pulling over to the left. it doesn't stop squeezing and there is always a vibration in that corner. i really feel like i blew out my brains in that corner. what if it never stops? it doesn't even stop when i'm asleep, i know it! that's why i can only stay under for sleep about 30-45 minutes and no longer.

 

i'm still couch bound by day and chair bound my night. i still can't walk around much even in my house because i have severe squeezing neuropathy around my legs, knee's and feet --  i need to see some changes soon.

 

i've been taking the Primal Defense probiotic that you recommended. should i keep taking it? do you think it will ever stop? i got hit very hard from this cold turkey. large dose's of different benzo's, klonopin and also soma. :'(

 

pretty

 

[[pr...]]

Verona,

 

i know you like the works of Ray Peat and i also wanted to share with NH something he said. which of course i never can understand him even when i ask him the most direct question in the world. i asked him if the HPA axis gets disturbed if supplemented with progesterone? because i know he is a big advocate of progesterone. i know he doesn't know anything about benzo withdrawal and what happens to the brain so i do take that into consideration. anyway, so i asked him if the HPA axis gets disturbed if progesterone is supplemented and he said this.

 

Thyroid, cholesterol, vitamin A, protein, carbohydrate are all things

that, if deficient, can disturb adrenal function. Progesterone, in

relation to the reproductive functions, should be cycled, but it can

help to normalize both the brain and the adrenals.

 

can anyone tell me what the hell he is talking about? i swear to God, he can never give me a direct answer. so annoying. i still love him though.