Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[me...]]

You are very fortunate that it worked for you! Like Aloha, those OTC meds have not worked at all for me in withdrawal, whereas I used to use them all the time before. You might have a bit of a rebound effect from taking it--a bit harder to get to sleep tonight. I think most recommend only taking them about twice a week and alternate meds so your body doesn't adapt.

 

But really your ultimate goal should be to not reach for any kind of pill when you can't sleep. Learn to rely on your body to get the sleep it needs. It's a slippery slope if you have to rely on a pill and the zolpidem is somewhere in the house...

[[al...]]

So I tired Unisom last night and slept like a log!! But I can't seem to wake up this morning! A good cup of joe will help I'm sure!

 

So question to the ones that have taken it....so I took it last night but want to try on my own tonight, is it hard to sleep without? Is it easy for your brain to get addicted to it and then you're screwed if you don't take it?

 

I often take the generic Benadryl for a couple nights in a row then take a break. If I feel like sleep is probably going to happen, I don't take it. You can also try taking it along with melatonin. Some nights that combo will knock me out, but on some bad nights it does nothing for me.

[[...]]

Just had a tooth extraction, had a tooth infected with decay, currently in bed, in so much pain, feel like someone has shot me in the face!

 

Haven't slept in days

[[GA...]]

You are very fortunate that it worked for you! Like Aloha, those OTC meds have not worked at all for me in withdrawal, whereas I used to use them all the time before. You might have a bit of a rebound effect from taking it--a bit harder to get to sleep tonight. I think most recommend only taking them about twice a week and alternate meds so your body doesn't adapt.

 

But really your ultimate goal should be to not reach for any kind of pill when you can't sleep. Learn to rely on your body to get the sleep it needs. It's a slippery slope if you have to rely on a pill and the zolpidem is somewhere in the house...

 

I agree with you that it's not a good idea to rely on any medication to sleep, be it a benzo, Z-drug or OTC. However, I would weigh the risks against the reward. When a person is withdrawing from benzos or Z-drugs, they are likely to have trouble sleeping, to one degree or another. Is it so bad it is affecting their job, family life, etc.?

 

I plan to use these things as needed at least until I get off the benzo, then I will work on getting off the OTCs, which I consider the lesser of the evils.

[[Fr...]]

Update: the night before last I sleep with NOTHING! I was so happy! But then last night happened 😩 Had to take Ativan bc I was so exhausted and tired but couldn't fall asleep

 

When will this rebound be over?!?

[[wa...]]

Update: the night before last I sleep with NOTHING! I was so happy! But then last night happened 😩 Had to take Ativan bc I was so exhausted and tired but couldn't fall asleep

 

When will this rebound be over?!?

Hi Free - Well, I'm probably not telling you something you don't already know but some of your "rebound" is coming around every few days following your Ativan.  Your brain wants more so altering you're GABBAa receptors all over again each time you take it. I think you've tried over counters?  Unisom (both kinds), Benedryl.  Some folks ask their doc for trazodone or seroquel if feeling desperate.  It depends on the person and their life circumstance. 

 

For some reason I am getting 7 hours every once in awhile but I am still on some Lunesta -- nowhere near what I was a year ago but some.  I don't feel well, though and have run the gamut of sxs  and am in a pelvic pain flare that I hope goes away with the drug.  Oh, and if I wasn't miserable enough - I have poison ivy.  Hah - blame that on the Lunesta, too, since I was trying to tire myself out in the garden in order to sleep better and I only got a backache and poison ivy.  Funny, but when I feel well, I sleep less.  Frustrating. WBB

 

[[Fr...]]

Ugh I know you're right and I just have to Stop Ativan as well! I'm only taking .50mg every other day or two. So you think that's contributing as well?

 

I thought you were off it all? How much do you have left?

[[wa...]]

Yep - down to 1.25 and may accelerate cutting since I know it is not doing alot and I have antsy/irritable feeling every evening which is probably w/d.  I need to arrange life for zero AM obligations in case the insomnia gets bad.  i have an adolescent in the house so I am waiting until he is back in school.  The OTC drugs don't agree with me.  In fact, it feels all drugs don't agree with me now.  WBB

[[Fr...]]

I wouldn't cut ct from that dose. I did from .15mg so I'd at least get down to 1mg then .50mg

 

So on those bad withdrawal nights and nothing will work but Ativan what am I suppose to do?!?

[[Lo...]]

I guess we are in similar situations! These last amounts are very difficult to get of! I am traveling with a friend - east coast of Canada. Unfortunately she snores a lot which is kinda the last straw for my already very sensitive sleep!

 

I am looking for a quick way to get noise cancelling earbuds but even with Amazon the earliest I can get them is Tuesday. Very expensive too....over $300. Last time - 2 years ago - when we travelled together she didn't snore any significant amount. Mind you, I was on 1 or 1 and 1/2 tablets of Zopiclone and so probably didn't notice. Also she has gained a bit of weight since then.

 

Any suggestions?  Thanks,  LL

 

PS: I am now taking 1.5 mg of Zopiclone. I do not feel the withdrawal later in the day but do starting at 5 or 6 am. Very antsy and so I get up. I have changed time zones - 5 hours worth going east in last week! Another factor. I'm feeling very tired! Will be happy to get home Thursday!

[[Lo...]]

I wouldn't cut ct from that dose. I did from .15mg so I'd at least get down to 1mg then .50mg

 

So on those bad withdrawal nights and nothing will work but Ativan what am I suppose to do?!?

I wish I knew! It seems to me that you are getting a delayed withdrawal from the Ativan. Can it be tapered?  LL

 

 

[[me...]]

I wouldn't cut ct from that dose. I did from .15mg so I'd at least get down to 1mg then .50mg

 

So on those bad withdrawal nights and nothing will work but Ativan what am I suppose to do?!?

 

Freespirit--it is totally to be expected that you will have bad nights with poor sleep. You've been taking a sleep drug for almost a year, it takes a lot of time for the body to adjust to sleeping normally on it's own. It has to be forced to remake the "sleepy chemicals" that were shut down when a sleep drug was introduced, and shut down the production of chemicals to keep us awake. Every time you take an Ativan, you are setting back that healing. You may find the OTC stuff helps, maybe not, it is hit or miss for those of us in withdrawal.

 

At the moment I am sleeping about 5.5 hours a night, not great, but bearable. But I remember times earlier on when I got only 2 or even zero sleep (especially if I did something dumb like eat chocolate). But I've gotten out of the habit of looking for a drug to solve my sleep issues, it just is what it is. It's a lot easier to bear when I am prepared with a stack of books or magazines, and a blue blocker bulb in my bedroom.

 

Now is the time when you will really want to make sure that you aren't doing anything that activates your body--not drinking caffeine, taking any meds that are activating, using electronics in the evening, etc...I find a journal to be very helpful in this regard.

 

I really think 90% of the battle in getting off sleep drugs is getting out of the mindset that we "have to have" a certain amount of sleep no matter the cost. Nothing is worth taking these awful drugs and we can't get better without changing that mindset.

 

Here's a thread that you might find helpful:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=135102.0

[[me...]]

I am looking for a quick way to get noise cancelling earbuds but even with Amazon the earliest I can get them is Tuesday. Very expensive too....over $300. Last time - 2 years ago - when we travelled together she didn't snore any significant amount. Mind you, I was on 1 or 1 and 1/2 tablets of Zopiclone and so probably didn't notice. Also she has gained a bit of weight since then.

 

Any suggestions?  Thanks,  LL

 

You can get noise canceling headphones at a place like Bestbuy, probably not as great but they work pretty good, and a lot cheaper! Here's what I would do in a pinch--get some of the silicone ear plugs for each ear (I make them smaller so they fit more snugly), then layer them with normal earphones, or noise-canceling if you can get your hands on them. If you have a fan or some similar "white noise" producer that also helps.

[[Se...]]

Freespirit,

 

Meowie gives you really great advice and it was along the lines of what I wrote to you a while back - as long as you are taking the Ativan, you are exchanging one GABAergic substance for another.  Benzodiazepine use will prevent your GABA receptors from healing and will delay your ability to start sleeping without the z-drug.

 

What is the point of coming off a z-drug (which the World Health Organization considers to be, for all intents and purposes, a benzodiazepine with all the associated risks) if you are just going to stay on the Ativan (benzodiazepine) for sleep?

 

You need to carve out a period of time when you come off these drugs where you can go through "acute" withdrawal (which can last a month or two) without too many demands on you so you can get through the rebound insomnia that typically follows stopping the z-drug completely.  It won't last, but as long as you are resorting to take the Ativan for the difficult nights, you are prolonging healing and PREVENTING your sleep from normalizing.

 

Trying OTC sleep remedies (antihistamines) or a very low dose of Remeron or some Trazodone - things that don't interfere with GABA receptors - would be preferable to what you are doing.  It would get you through the initial rebound period.  No caffeine.  No alcohol.  No stimulants as Meowie says.  Perhaps trying 5-HTP or Tryptophan if appropriate, and magnesium or low dose melatonin.  But the path you are currently on is not conducive to healing and will not help you eventually start to heal your sleep architecture and your GABA receptors.

 

Cannot stress this enough.  You'd be better off going on a low dose of z-drug and starting a slow taper again and looking to find a time when you can come off and absolutely not resort to any z-drug or benzodiazepine rescue doses.  Clear the decks and get rid of stress and try again when you can withstand the initial rebound insomnia.  It will not last.

 

 

Ali

[[Fr...]]

Thank you friends, really! This past month as I tapered so low and eventually off Lunesta, I'd say I've used .50mg of Ativan maybe like once every 2-3 days. I will stop completely! I tried Unisom the other day and boy did it knock me out but man I was like dead all the next day. I felt awful! More than any other drug. I know antihistamines dry a person out so maybe I was super dehydrated. I can try 1/2 a tablet next time and hopefully it'll be ok. I bought magnesium tablets but got up to 300mg and my stomach got jacked up. So I returned it and now I have mag oil so I sprayed that on my feet last night. I've use .50mg of melatonin last two nights. The Mag pills worked well besides the stomach pain. I'm also using Theanine serene with Relora.

 

It's just SO incredibly hard to have a night with zero sleep!

 

I've re-read the Effortless Sleep Method over and over, seriously about every other day I'm refreshing my memory with it!

 

I will never take a zdrug ever again but I still in my mind think of Ativan as a "what if I need it" and I shouldn't do that

 

Can't use 5htp bc of Celexa, right?

[[Lo...]]

I am looking for a quick way to get noise cancelling earbuds but even with Amazon the earliest I can get them is Tuesday. Very expensive too....over $300. Last time - 2 years ago - when we travelled together she didn't snore any significant amount. Mind you, I was on 1 or 1 and 1/2 tablets of Zopiclone and so probably didn't notice. Also she has gained a bit of weight since then.

 

Any suggestions?  Thanks,  LL

 

You can get noise canceling headphones at a place like Bestbuy, probably not as great but they work pretty good, and a lot cheaper! Here's what I would do in a pinch--get some of the silicone ear plugs for each ear (I make them smaller so they fit more snugly), then layer them with normal earphones, or noise-canceling if you can get your hands on them. If you have a fan or some similar "white noise" producer that also helps.

 

Thanks Meowie. All good advice but I am traveling in Nova Scotia. Sparsely populated compared to most American cities. I am headed for Prince Edward Island - population of 200,000 for whole province! Capitol city is only @20,000 people. Therefore it is hard to get noise cancelling earbuds or earphones. I've searched.

 

Last night was better...I had trouble getting to sleep but then slept until 7:30 with just one short awakening. My friend was not snoring for some reason!

 

I am eager to get to a point to jump from the Zopiclone. After I take it before bed then I feel somewhat revved up. Breathing faster, heart rate faster etc. It makes it harder to get to sleep! This is likely what you were describing? However I fear jumping at this point especially since I am traveling and have these other issues to deal with - strange bed, snoring roommate, jet lag etc.

 

Next week I will be home but with 2 of my children and families visiting from afar. And on it goes as I wait for a "good" time to jump.

 

I agree...no stimulants! Great advice from you and SeekingSanity.  LL

[[me...]]

So on those bad withdrawal nights and nothing will work but Ativan what am I suppose to do?!?

 

Freespirit--I'm pretty sure I mentioned this before, but can't recall for sure. The reason I did a cold-turkey on all my meds was because of severe insomnia. I was getting 0 to 2 hours a night for nights in a row and it was untenable. Apparently my AD (amitryptilie) had gone paradoxical, which it can do on lower doses. I could feel it kicking in and revving me up and I had to take the other sleep meds to fight it, then of course was developing dependence. I knew the CT was the right thing to do, because after the jump, I was getting at least 4 hours of sleep almost every night and it improved from there.

 

As Celexa has been known to cause insomnia, you'll have to figure out for yourself if it could be creating a situation where the insomnia is worse, and you are needing to take sleep drugs to overcome it. If your insomnia is severe--like 0-2 hours every night for more than one night in a row, then it is a good possibility. Obviously we can't function at all on that kind of sleep. But if you are getting at least 4 hours, or having several nights when you sleep well, that may not be the case.

 

I hate all these meds! Even getting poor sleep (like 5 hours every night) is better than being a slave to the drugs and never knowing what will happen from night to night, or wondering how in the world to get off them.

[[Lo...]]

.... Apparently my AD (amitryptilie) had gone paradoxical, which it can do on lower doses. I could feel it kicking in and revving me up and I had to take the other sleep meds to fight it, then of course was developing dependence....

Very interesting Meowie. I take the 3 mg version of Doxepin (Silenor) which at least in the past has helped me to stay asleep. Now I am wondering if it may have a negative effect based on your experience.. Guess I will have to stop it and see! It is just 3 mg....is that really enough to cause me problems?!!! LL

[[me...]]

Yes, it is a tricyclic just like amitryptiline, and I see the dosage range is similar (start about 25 go to 150 mg. etc..) I don't know for sure, but I suspect it could have very similar paradoxical effects on some people. I was also on a low dose of amitryptiline--just 6 mg. all last year, then bumped back up to 12.5 mg. for a few months before I quit it.

 

It felt to me like the drug had a window of getting to sleep, about 45 minutes after taking it. If I missed that window, I could feel it revving up my body and heart palpitations kicking in. Very unpleasant, and then I knew I was in for a bad night. I'm wondering if the effects on serotonin (sedating) were overcome by the effects on norepinephrine (stimulating) at lower doses.

 

I can't tell you how great it feels to not have the ball and chain of these drugs any longer, I don't trust any of them, no matter what the doctors say about them.

[[Lo...]]

Thanks Meowie. It is hard to believe that just 3 mg of Doxepin (ie Silenor) could have that effect but then it is also hard to believe that the tiny bit of Zopiclone also has a big effect.

 

I will probably wait until I am well off Zopiclone to stop the Silenor. I recently stopped progesterone which also affects the GABA receptors. I did not notice any withdrawal fortunately.

 

Where did you read about the paradoxical effect of Tricyclics? I know that the action of Doxepin is very different at very low doses than at higher doses.

 

Yes, it would be wonderful to be off all these drugs!!! LL

[[Lo...]]

Hi Everyone, Its been quiet on this thread! I hope that means that all are coping with their tapers or withdrawal.

 

I am back home after a good holiday. If you read the Insomnia thread then you would know that I had trouble initially - a combination of jet lag, too much light in the room and a snoring travel companion. Fortunately I was able to overcome these challenges and SLEEP! Really SLEEP!

 

It was a very relaxing holiday! I was very geared down and I found that I was fighting off sleep at different times through the day. And sleeping 7, 8 or more hours at night!!! This tells me that a lot of the insomnia has to do with not managing my state well enough!

 

I wonder what will happen now that I am gearing up for have 2 of my children and their children visit from afar and stay for the next 2-3 weeks. Staying mostly with me!

 

How are you all doing? LL

[[wa...]]

Hi all Z druggers

Well, I feel like I am approaching the last frontier.  I'm down to 1mg Lunesta.  Last year I was in acute w/d at 1mg.  What a difference a slow taper makes.  I can't say I feel great.  I'm exhausted alot and am in an I.C. flare - the pain interferes with sleep.  My nervous system can't tolerate other meds or supplements yet. 

 

I hope I don't jinx this now -- but my sleep is a bit better than it was - and it has been all over the place these last few months.  I have even begun dreaming again!  Last night's dream - was me in some vehicle coming to a dead end and then it ran out of control downhill.  Hah - doesn't take Freud to figure out what's going on in my life. 

 

Someday I will revisit my old posts where I was in terrible shape.  I try not to think of what may come on this journey but for today I am going to commend myself (something I never do) for making it this far.  Sometimes we have to decidedly acknowledge our own hard work.  And if you can't be nice to yourself -- ask BBers to help you. WBB

[[Be...]]

Does Z-drug withdrawal cause stomach symptoms?  My stomach hurts alot sometime and I never used to have stomach problems.

[[Na...]]

Been away for awhile.  I'm at a bit over 13 months out from quitting Lunesta now.  Things seems to come and go in waves.  I was feeling pretty good for awhile, but not some much in the last couple of weeks.  In fact, it almost feels like where I was 6 or 7 months ago.  Just really getting tired of this.

 

When I first started posting in the thread someone gave me a list of people that had fairly long term z-drug use that had kicked it and had finally recovered.  Sort of z-drug success stories.  I wish I could remember who gave me that or find it.  I think it helped at that time and I wouldn't mind hearing some success stories at this moment.

 

 

 

[[Lo...]]

Hi all Z druggers

Well, I feel like I am approaching the last frontier.  I'm down to 1mg Lunesta.  Last year I was in acute w/d at 1mg.  What a difference a slow taper makes.  I can't say I feel great.  I'm exhausted alot and am in an I.C. flare - the pain interferes with sleep.  My nervous system can't tolerate other meds or supplements yet. 

 

I hope I don't jinx this now -- but my sleep is a bit better than it was - and it has been all over the place these last few months.  I have even begun dreaming again!  Last night's dream - was me in some vehicle coming to a dead end and then it ran out of control downhill.  Hah - doesn't take Freud to figure out what's going on in my life. 

 

Someday I will revisit my old posts where I was in terrible shape.  I try not to think of what may come on this journey but for today I am going to commend myself (something I never do) for making it this far.  Sometimes we have to decidedly acknowledge our own hard work.  And if you can't be nice to yourself -- ask BBers to help you. WBB

Hi Wannabebetter, Good news that you are down to 1 mg Lunesta without the major WD you had earlier. Like you I am at the last frontier...down to 1.3 mg of Zopiclone. Zopiclone and Lunesta are very different drugs in terms of dose and half-life and so hard to compare but at least we can say that both of us are getting close to the jumping point.

 

I'm finding that it is only a tiny amount that I weigh out each evening. I'm about to just skip it although I still have lots going on until Sept 2....lots of family visiting and a long weekend at a cottage with perhaps less than ideal sleeping arrangements. As much as i want to be done with this drug, I hate to rock the boat while lots else is going on. Having said that, I do find it helpful to be busy and not thinking about sleeping or sleeping pills or withdrawal symptoms.

 

It interesting about the dreaming. I started dreaming again after I added B6 p5p to my supplement regime. My sister too found a big improvement in sleep after taking B6.

 

You said..."Someday I will revisit my old posts where I was in terrible shape.  I try not to think of what may come on this journey but for today I am going to commend myself (something I never do) for making it this far.  Sometimes we have to decidedly acknowledge our own hard work.  And if you can't be nice to yourself -- ask BBers to help you."

 

This is key, I think. Please do pat yourself on the back! You've had various other health issues to contend with along with the z-drug and you've been smart and patient. Be positive now and visualize being off this drug and feeling so much better. I think we will no longer have that morning hangover from the z-drugs. All systems will improve given a little time. Mood will improve.

 

Hang in there, WBB, You are doing well.  LL