Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[La...]]

Is het ok to drink milk in the evening…. I wonder if this habit makes me feel bad the next day… I know milk contains tryptophan, which transforms in melatonin, the sleep hormone. I normally feel really bad the next day when I take melatonin in pill form…Jerry

Milk does this to me…makes me feel off. So I drink organic almond milk with no problem or cashew milk. 

Yes as Deanna said…lightheaded is also a symptom and you get other symptoms as you taper but many of them fade off quickly once you’re completely off. The others gradually fade away over months or year/ years. But they become milder and even go away then come back for a visit. All is a normal part of the process. So it is true that with time, you get your life back to normal. In many cases better than before! 

[[am...]]

How long should my taper be if i have been on Ambien for a month every day?

I have reached tolerance and have interdose withdrawal.

Will 2 weeks be too short?

[[La...]]

Hugs to Team Z! Hope all is well and everyone is doing fun things enjoying the Spring. I’ve been having waves mostly mild except the one I had last night. But I expected that one because I had an issue that caused me a little stress AND I was due for a bigger wave. BUT that wave was a milder bigger wave….if that makes sense? In other words last month my.once a week big wave was a 7 scale but this one was a 6. So, yeah! I’ve been walking outside for longer periods when I can. Drawing, painting, watching tv, cooking, bathing, light household chores, etc. looking back 2 months ago I couldn’t do much at all. So I’m counting my blessings this morning! This DOES get better with time. Soon I’ll be going places again. That will be a dream come true to go somewhere and enjoy myself without interference of this. I know it happens to everyone but to me that seems so foreign. Although I know that it will happen for me too. I spend my days now just looking for things to enjoy to pass my time. Currently I just learned to crochet. I’m making a blanket for my soon to be born grandchild. I’m enjoying it very much. Deanna you’re right, it’s easy and relaxing. I love that it’s a distraction when I’m sitting up as well as gives me practice holding my head down. It has really helped my vestibular system once I kept doing it regardless of being boaty. I do have a limit. When it gets too much, I listen and go lay down.

Love and hugs to all ❤️😘💋🤗

[[La...]]

How long should my taper be if i have been on Ambien for a month every day?

I have reached tolerance and have interdose withdrawal.

Will 2 weeks be too short?

What is your dose? How often do you take it?

Yes 2 weeks in my opinion is way too fast even if it’s only been a short term usage. IMO, I think you could get by with tapering 1mg every 10 days because you haven’t been on it very long. Especially with you having interpose WD. If I were you…..that’s what I’d do - dry taper 1mg every 10 days. I used a sharp knife to cut my pills ( I had to get on the regular Zolpidem first then started tapering). When they got too small to cut with a knife, I used a nail file to file it down. I felt my cuts about every 3-4 days afterwards. It was mild and very doable. I had no trouble getting off.

[[Li...]]

Is het ok to drink milk in the evening…. I wonder if this habit makes me feel bad the next day… I know milk contains tryptophan, which transforms in melatonin, the sleep hormone. I normally feel really bad the next day when I take melatonin in pill form…Jerry

Milk does this to me…makes me feel off. So I drink organic almond milk with no problem or cashew milk. 

Yes as Deanna said…lightheaded is also a symptom and you get other symptoms as you taper but many of them fade off quickly once you’re completely off. The others gradually fade away over months or year/ years. But they become milder and even go away then come back for a visit. All is a normal part of the process. So it is true that with time, you get your life back to normal. In many cases better than before!

 

I am going to quit drinking milk in the evening, hopefully I then feel better the next day.

[[am...]]

I was placing the pill under my tongue to kick in faster, maybe this made it worse?

Should i keep placing it under the tongue?

Do you use a scale to know how much to cut?

How did you manage your sleep while tapering?Did you take something else to help?

[[Li...]]

I was placing the pill under my tongue to kick in faster, maybe this made it worse?

Should i keep placing it under the tongue?

Do you use a scale to know how much to cut?

How did you manage your sleep while tapering?Did you take something else to help?

 

I also dry taper my zopiclon, I make example pills of how much I have to cut. This way it easy to see how much you have to file off. Yes, I use a file…

[[La...]]

AmbienFree I drew a model on paper of my pill. I got the prescription for the 5mg tablets. This makes it easier to cut. On paper I divided up the pill in 5 sections using the front of the pill that has the writing on it. Once I did that, I knew how much 1 mg is. It’s not exact measurements but it’s close enough to cut. Using common sense when looking at the pill, the very middle is 2.5 mg. I didn’t use a scale.  I never placed them under my tongue. So I don’t think it will make a difference if you just swallow it instead. Kachina used to put hers under the tongue. Maybe she’ll see this and chime in to answer you.

[[Ka...]]

I was placing the pill under my tongue to kick in faster, maybe this made it worse?

Should i keep placing it under the tongue?

Do you use a scale to know how much to cut?

How did you manage your sleep while tapering?Did you take something else to help?

 

Hey Ambien Free!! You GO, get off this stuff right away ... oh how all of us wish we had. After about 15 years in to taking ambien nightly (and having horrible pain and other symptoms I never knew was related--and doctors couldn't diagnos--and that made my life so hard and awful for 20+yrs) I also put it under my tongue so I did my taper that way the whole time. I don't have medical knowledge/advice for you but these are my thoughts:  your first step could be taking it orally. It is more powerful going under the tongue.

 

At the same time set up a calming down in the evening sleep routine to your liking. LadyDen helped me with mine, so I followed similar to her;  I set a time to get off tv and computer and do quieter things, then instead of music I sang softly to myself, took a hot bath---I also got up early every morning and got light in my eyes and got a walk or some exercise. I still do most of this!

 

Now about your taper after 1 month use, I saw LadyDen advised a slow taper--- but I don't understand the advice to have your taper add 3 more months of taking the med if you've only been on it one month. BUT I trust LadyDen so would want to know the logic for this, that she and others may know. That 3 month calculation is if you're taking 10mg, I can't see now that I'm typing to you!

 

However, some people have a crisis in their life that makes them seek a sleep aid and that might have some different things to consider if you did. I still take stuff, like L-theanine, magnesium and rotate valerian, hops, passion flower. You mentioned earlier the idea of switching to another med so you must be very concerned about sleep---did you have trouble for a long time before the ambien? Have you heard of CBT-i which is cognitive behaviour therapy for insomnia? I still have some trouble and find it very upsetting now that I've gone back to work.  So I feel your pain. Luckily on a bad night I usually sleep well the next night! I try to be more patient and cultivate a different attitude.

 

I also just eye-balled and cut the pill with a jack knife, same amount off and increasing by that same amount ... not worrying about anything more!

[[am...]]

I started taking Ambien because of my tinnitus which prevented me from sleeping.

It worked very well for a few days, made things quiet and i slept 6 or 7 hours.

However i reached tolerance very quickly and for some reason it gave me a new tinnitus tone that is worse than my original tinnitus so i kept taking it to make this new tone quiet and get a few hours of sleep.

Now it doesnt work at all anymore and i have very bad withdrawal symptoms during the day.

I dont know why this is happening after just 1 month of use.

I cannot keep going with these symptoms for very long, i struggle every day, so i need to either shorten the taper or switch to Valium and try to get stabilised as another member suggested, i can barely function during the day, i dont know why it affected me so bad, i am restless and cant concentrate, it started getting bad in the last 10 days.

 

[[Ka...]]

Wow ambien free, that sounds really challenging. I'm sooo sorry you're having this trouble. How long have you had tininitus? Do you know what caused it?

 

Let's see what others have to suggest for you, I can understand needing to shorten the taper or switch to valium. Barely being able to function is too hard. Do you have to work?

 

Sending you peaceful energy and want to encourage you to get all the support you need. Glad you're here as doctors don't seem to know how damaging ambien can be.

 

I've seen tinnitus discussed in the mind/body syndrome healing forums I follow. These methods have helped me a lot.

 

https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/tags/tinnitus/

[[po...]]

I am trying to find a stable starting dose for my Ambien to Valium cross-over. I have posted about it here: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=266853.0

 

I hope someone can have a look and provide some advice, please.

[[La...]]

Ambien free…. I can’t tell you what to do….potato, I can’t tell you what to do…..BUT I’m surely going to give my opinion because I’m highly concerned that you both want to get on Valium. Wow I’m highly concerned for you both! Valium is no joke! Ambien makes people not be able to think rationally sometimes. IMO both of you should take much thought before you decide to switch. Ambien isn’t hard to come off compared to Valium. I’m speaking from the reports of others and experiences I’ve had. If you switch to Valium most likely you will be in worse condition because now you’ll have to taper that too. That is a longer much slower taper. Right now you’re both in tolerance and probably interdose WD as well. So of course you don’t feel so well. That’s ok and normal under the circumstances. But by all means, please don’t get on Valium if you can avoid it. Simply taper the ambien. Will you have rebound insomnia? Most people…yes! Will it kill you? Absolutely not! Is it permanent? Absolutely not! As a matter of fact, as I tapered my sleep improved. I used CBT-I and strict sleep schedule. I made peace with my sleep not fixating on how much I got or didn’t get. Expect symptoms. Accept it. Distract them. At the end of the day, it’s your choice but I wouldn’t be a good buddy if I didn’t warn you to make sure of your decision. Be informed. Read of others doing this. Some it was the best decision and some it was a disaster.

As far as tapering….the reason I said just do a 1mg taper every 10 days is to give your brain time to adjust to the reductions. Although you’ve been on it for a short time, you are NOW tolerant. Once tolerant, that is a different ballgame. You don’t know how your brain will react if you cold turkey or make big cuts. In most cases it is unbearable consequences if you do that. So the SAFEST thing to do is taper. You can try reducing 2mg instead of 1mg to see if you can handle it. More than likely you will do fine reducing 2 at a time. But if you don’t then you can simply do 1 mg at a time. So Kachina, this is why I suggested the way I did…for safety reasons. I’m not advising anyone because I’m well aware of the potential of severe reactions when coming off…including seizures. So I’m suggestive of what I know is safe. But the choice is up to the person. It is a better situation IMO that when not taken for a long time, the tapering can be smoother and faster. Only once you’re off is when people start feeling better. That was the case for me as well as many others when dealing with Ambien.  My motto in dealing with zdrugs, ADs and benzos is to be safe, not sorry.

Best wishes to everyone!

[[po...]]

Ambien free…. I can’t tell you what to do….potato, I can’t tell you what to do…..BUT I’m surely going to give my opinion because I’m highly concerned that you both want to get on Valium. Wow I’m highly concerned for you both! Valium is no joke! Ambien makes people not be able to think rationally sometimes. IMO both of you should take much thought before you decide to switch. Ambien isn’t hard to come off compared to Valium. I’m speaking from the reports of others and experiences I’ve had. If you switch to Valium most likely you will be in worse condition because now you’ll have to taper that too. That is a longer much slower taper. Right now you’re both in tolerance and probably interdose WD as well. So of course you don’t feel so well. That’s ok and normal under the circumstances. But by all means, please don’t get on Valium if you can avoid it. Simply taper the ambien. Will you have rebound insomnia? Most people…yes! Will it kill you? Absolutely not! Is it permanent? Absolutely not! As a matter of fact, as I tapered my sleep improved. I used CBT-I and strict sleep schedule. I made peace with my sleep not fixating on how much I got or didn’t get. Expect symptoms. Accept it. Distract them. At the end of the day, it’s your choice but I wouldn’t be a good buddy if I didn’t warn you to make sure of your decision. Be informed. Read of others doing this. Some it was the best decision and some it was a disaster.

As far as tapering….the reason I said just do a 1mg taper every 10 days is to give your brain time to adjust to the reductions. Although you’ve been on it for a short time, you are NOW tolerant. Once tolerant, that is a different ballgame. You don’t know how your brain will react if you cold turkey or make big cuts. In most cases it is unbearable consequences if you do that. So the SAFEST thing to do is taper. You can try reducing 2mg instead of 1mg to see if you can handle it. More than likely you will do fine reducing 2 at a time. But if you don’t then you can simply do 1 mg at a time. So Kachina, this is why I suggested the way I did…for safety reasons. I’m not advising anyone because I’m well aware of the potential of severe reactions when coming off…including seizures. So I’m suggestive of what I know is safe. But the choice is up to the person. It is a better situation IMO that when not taken for a long time, the tapering can be smoother and faster. Only once you’re off is when people start feeling better. That was the case for me as well as many others when dealing with Ambien.  My motto in dealing with zdrugs, ADs and benzos is to be safe, not sorry.

Best wishes to everyone!

 

Thank you for your input LadyDen. I have made the switch to Valium already - I have been on it for 18 days at a dose of 5mg. Am I understanding that I should go back on Ambien? It seems it would complicate things further - I don’t know.

 

The reason I switched to Valium was indeed interdose withdrawal. I don’t have much of a choice because of my chronic illness - as I stated in my post, overexertion from the agitation of interdose WD worsens the illness itself severely. It is not that I fear symptoms - were I not ill to begin with, I would have braved going cold turkey (not that it is a wise thing to do). I have to manage the interaction between WD and my chronic illness as safely as I can, and Valium seemed to be the better choice from the information I could find.

[[Li...]]

Hi Zzers,

How’s life? Today I am home, without any serious activities. I was listening to a podcast of Dutch saxofonist Benjamin Herman. But it is a bit too much for me, so I changed to a record of Theo Cháraf. Very calm singer-songwriter music. I also listen sometimes to this record when I go to bed in the evening. I still have light anxiety problems. Jerry

[[La...]]

Ambien free…. I can’t tell you what to do….potato, I can’t tell you what to do…..BUT I’m surely going to give my opinion because I’m highly concerned that you both want to get on Valium. Wow I’m highly concerned for you both! Valium is no joke! Ambien makes people not be able to think rationally sometimes. IMO both of you should take much thought before you decide to switch. Ambien isn’t hard to come off compared to Valium. I’m speaking from the reports of others and experiences I’ve had. If you switch to Valium most likely you will be in worse condition because now you’ll have to taper that too. That is a longer much slower taper. Right now you’re both in tolerance and probably interdose WD as well. So of course you don’t feel so well. That’s ok and normal under the circumstances. But by all means, please don’t get on Valium if you can avoid it. Simply taper the ambien. Will you have rebound insomnia? Most people…yes! Will it kill you? Absolutely not! Is it permanent? Absolutely not! As a matter of fact, as I tapered my sleep improved. I used CBT-I and strict sleep schedule. I made peace with my sleep not fixating on how much I got or didn’t get. Expect symptoms. Accept it. Distract them. At the end of the day, it’s your choice but I wouldn’t be a good buddy if I didn’t warn you to make sure of your decision. Be informed. Read of others doing this. Some it was the best decision and some it was a disaster.

As far as tapering….the reason I said just do a 1mg taper every 10 days is to give your brain time to adjust to the reductions. Although you’ve been on it for a short time, you are NOW tolerant. Once tolerant, that is a different ballgame. You don’t know how your brain will react if you cold turkey or make big cuts. In most cases it is unbearable consequences if you do that. So the SAFEST thing to do is taper. You can try reducing 2mg instead of 1mg to see if you can handle it. More than likely you will do fine reducing 2 at a time. But if you don’t then you can simply do 1 mg at a time. So Kachina, this is why I suggested the way I did…for safety reasons. I’m not advising anyone because I’m well aware of the potential of severe reactions when coming off…including seizures. So I’m suggestive of what I know is safe. But the choice is up to the person. It is a better situation IMO that when not taken for a long time, the tapering can be smoother and faster. Only once you’re off is when people start feeling better. That was the case for me as well as many others when dealing with Ambien.  My motto in dealing with zdrugs, ADs and benzos is to be safe, not sorry.

Best wishes to everyone!

 

Thank you for your input LadyDen. I have made the switch to Valium already - I have been on it for 18 days at a dose of 5mg. Am I understanding that I should go back on Ambien? It seems it would complicate things further - I don’t know.

 

The reason I switched to Valium was indeed interdose withdrawal. I don’t have much of a choice because of my chronic illness - as I stated in my post, overexertion from the agitation of interdose WD worsens the illness itself severely. It is not that I fear symptoms - were I not ill to begin with, I would have braved going cold turkey (not that it is a wise thing to do). I have to manage the interaction between WD and my chronic illness as safely as I can, and Valium seemed to be the better choice from the information I could find.

Well you’ve already switched so my opinion is to just stay the course. I wish you a safe smooth taper when you start getting off Valium. As I stated earlier, some people did need to switch to Valium. I was simply saying for those who could tough it out, then don’t switch. Sometimes we think we can’t handle something then we end up finding out that we could. In our minds we made an anthill into a big mountain. These pills will do that. Each person has to decide what’s best for them. Looks like you did what you felt you had to. That’s ok. Best wishes to you. Hugs!

[[La...]]

Hi Zzers,

How’s life? Today I am home, without any serious activities. I was listening to a podcast of Dutch saxofonist Benjamin Herman. But it is a bit too much for me, so I changed to a record of Theo Cháraf. Very calm singer-songwriter music. I also listen sometimes to this record when I go to bed in the evening. I still have light anxiety problems. Jerry

Hugs Jerry. Sounds good to listen to calming music. Glad to hear you’re doing things like that to keep calm. I know the anxiety is not fun for you. But you have good tools to keep yourself occupied. You’ve been around here for a long time so you know how important that is. Sending you hugs and happy healing. 🤗

Thanks for the report. Hang in there.

[[am...]]

I am now taking less than half of 10 mg tablet.

Feeling very restless during the day, but feeling better later after 7 pm.

I think it has been 2 weeks since i started having interdose withdrawal and 5 weeks since i started taking it.

Should i just stop taking it or continue to reduce the amount ?

[[La...]]

Morning Team Z!  May today be a great one. 

 

Ambienfree I think you should just continue to reduce just in case the cold turkey would be too much. Since there’s no way of knowing what would happen then if I were you, I’d chose the safe not sorry route….reduce. Being at 5mg is great. As you see for yourself that you’re already feeling better.  That’s awesome. I see no reason that you won’t continue to feel better. If you’re brave and it’s been 10 days since you’ve been on 5mg, then you can try cutting that in half ( 2.5mg) and see how you do. You might feel that cut about 1-4 days later. But it should be doable. IMO. It is good that you haven’t been a long time user. This works in your favor. After the 2.5mg reduction, from there you can cut that in half for 10 days. Then jump. It’s your choice. But that’s what I would do if I were you. Ohhhh…and count your blessings when you jump that you dodged a big bullet.

Expect symptoms that are typical WD- it’s the acute phase and normal to occur. Accept those symptoms as such ( normal). Your brain will have some rebound response to being off and reducing. So distract yourself and implement calming tools such as meditation, prayer, online games, taking walks, warm baths, reading, crocheting/knitting, learning a new craft, drawing, painting, gardening, cuddling something soft - pillow, blanket, stuffed animal. The key is to keep your mind busy during the day. Doing it with something involving the hands is ideal. You want challenging things but not frustrating. My favorite go to are games online. They distract, pass the time and fun. 

Best wishes my dear. Please let me know what you decide.

By the way….the reason I suggested 10 days is because it gives the brain a chance to adjust/accept the reductions. These pills has made our CNS ( central nervous system) very sensitive and it’s gaba receptors have been down regulated. So it’s my opinion that gentle slow and steady wins the race. It’s far less of a big nasty hit that you’d most likely get from a cold turkey. I feel strongly about this especially if anyone is having interdose wd and reached tolerance. I’m not saying/ suggesting anything different than what’s commonly known around here. This has worked extremely well for nearly everyone who goes slow and steady. But in your case, I feel you can get by with cutting in half for 10 days then cut in half again for 10 days then jump. Whatever you chose. We are here to support you.

Hugs 🤗

[[Li...]]

Ha LadyDen,

It is so kind of you how you support people here who are tapering. I really appreciate that. I haven t got the power to support other people here. I think it is also because English is not my mother language. Today I wasn t feeling great, so I went swimming later around 4 O clock. Normally I go around 12:30, so surprisingly I met a swimming buddy I hadn’t seen for one and a half year. So we had a nice conversation. I also thought I had forgotten his name, but when I saw him in the pool, it popped up in my mind. His name is Alex. Spring is temporarily over here, it is cold and raining. We had sunny days for a month, this was special. My taper is not easy, but better slow than nothing.

Hugggs Jerry 

[[Pu...]]

Hi all,

 

Currently tapering from 7.5mg of Zopiclone (although was bumped up to 15mg for 2 weeks) and have been stuck at 2.8mg for about 4 months due to nasty interdose withdrawals.

 

I know I need to keep going and have decided to do a microtaper.

 

Has anyone done one before that could offer some advice?

 

Also, the Ashton Manual suggests swapping to Valium because it's got a longer half life. Thoughts? I'm a little concerned about swapping one shit show for another......

[[sl...]]

Pugtragic, I wouldnt switch to valium if i were you, it has a long half life whereas zop only 5hrs. I quit zop 2 months ago ct cos of tolerance, had temazepam in its place which ive just dumped. Now the real fun starts! I'm suprised that the dose you are on now is doing anything for you, id keep tapering if i were you

[[Pu...]]

Thanks for your reply Sleepyjo.

 

I get at least a solid 6.5hrs a night. Sometimes more. I am surprised that I am, to be honest. But I am concerned that that might change if I start to drop further down.

[[sl...]]

You're doing great. I'd die for 6.5 hrs lol. Just take it easy, there's no rush. Why not just shave a tiny bit off and see how it is, if ok stick for a week or two then do same. 2.8mg is so low anyway it probably isnt doing much for you, I know its hard when your mind is telling you that you need it. What about trying just one night without it and see how you go?

[[am...]]

Im at about 2.5 mg Ambien, it does nothing for me anymore, im thinking of just dropping it.

Can barely function during the day due to interdose withdrawal and lack of sleep.

 

The problem is sleeping, i had some nights with no sleep at all this week.

Im also taking Dayvigo, which doesnt seem to be working very well.

 

I had to resort to taking 1mg clonazepam to be able to sleep a few hours, i dont want to keep taking it but dont know what to do anymore, i need at least a few hours of sleep to be able to function.

Should i take something like a low dose mirtazipine or seroquel to sleep?But those drugs have also problems.