Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[La...]]

Hello Whitebeach and a warm welcome to Team Z! 

Firstly, let me echo our lovely Admin Pam in saying congrats on your jumping place. Yes, IMO, when you’re down to crumb then it’s time to jump off. This is a victory for you and should be celebrated even though you feel like crap right now. So what I did was made my last dose a special night. I gave myself a treat ( something I really wanted) the first night without that tiny crumb. I meditated, took a soothing warm bath, played calming ocean waves with piano music from YouTube, hugged my teddy bear and just mentally stayed on my “ lovely beach” with eyes closed in a very dark room. My rule to myself was….absolutely NO thinking about Ambien ( zolpidem) and no what if’s or worrying about if I’ll sleep. The task was to be greatly relaxed and calm and see what happens. Now, mind you, I was over the moon excited to be off because when I got down to my last mgs the zolpidem made me feel very sick 20 minutes after my dose. And that lasted hours! This is called paradoxical effect. Sure enough, the first night I didn’t take it, I wasn’t very sick at all…this was Father’s Day night  I chose that day because my Heavenly Father is the one who deserves ALL the credit for ridding me of that poison. Getting off will generate mixed feelings. This is normal and ok. But, you’ve come this far so the finish line is right within reach. Pick a guarantee date for your jump….don’t dwell on it so distract yourself keeping your mind busy….You can do this! You got this!

Your symptoms….well, it is all normal to feel symptoms because of several factors: tolerance, interdose withdrawal, tapering off, the brain realizing it and reacting or paradoxical effects. It may be all of those or a couple. Either way, that’s WHY you feel rotten symptoms. The good news is they are TEMPORARY, my friend. You are entering acute phase. Your brain is working hard trying to figure out how to “ operate in a balanced way without the disruption of the Ambien” . Symptoms are expected. It is best to accept them as normal under the circumstances. To cope with them it’s a good idea to incorporate copiing tools. Such as meditation, praying ( if you’re religious), listening to soothing music, starting a task ( jigsaw puzzle, new hobby, learn a new language, go for a walk, coloring, online games, movies, etc) Fill your day with a schedule of events to keep yourself busy. This keeps the focus off of your symptoms which causes stress which stress makes it worse. What I did was wrote down hour by hour what I’d be doing. And included in the schedule was something I enjoyed. Something that made me smile, happy or laugh. Also times when I’d be resting quietly. This is ideal to have a quiet space reserved for resting. Many times I would pretend I’m at a spa. Doing this schedule made my day pass quick…the days add up and next thing you know you’ll be 2 weeks off, then 1 month, 2, etc. Your symptoms will run their course and over time, settle down. You may notice that some left immediately after stopping. As far as the dizziness…we’ll, I’m the queen of dizzy boatiness throughout this whole ordeal. It’s now much better and gradually still fading. Please don’t let how long mine hung around deter you. This is MY experience and not a model for what will be yours. Many buddies before you had dizziness/ boaty feeling and it would pop in and out at random times or some had it for a few months then it just vanished for good. Dizziness is a very very very common symptom. My advice is to not let it scare you. It’s disturbing, yes. Debilitating, yes. Annoying, yes. But temporary in nearly 100% of the cases if the culprit is benzos or Z-drugs. I’m really proud of the good job you’ve done. Until your dizziness improves, please be careful when moving around. Be safe, be stable, be careful. I tried those fancy vestibular therapists, vestibular exercises, etc.  None of it helped. Testing was normal as well. I’m not telling you what to do but if you go those routes, don’t be surprised if they don’t help. We do have a cure for our symptoms…..TIME. The Ambien packed some mean punches to your gaba receptors. That might take some time to heal and it might not take long. It’s a matter of your individual rate of healing. Time is your advocate in this. Keep stress away and keep busy to pass that time. We are here with you. We understand what you’re going through. We support you. Rest assured that you’re not alone.

One last thing, do you have a sleep routine? If you don’t, I’d suggest you go to bed at the same time each night while implementing good sleep hygiene. Over time this reminds the brain what to do when it “ sees” you getting ready for bed. IMO if you stick to a strict routine, it is beneficial in the long run. Some people have rebound insomnia which is common when coming off sleeping pills. If you don’t get enough sleep, it’s ok. Nobody has died from only getting 2-3 hours of sleep. NOBODY! IMO, making peace with it is the best thing to do. Sometimes you just won’t sleep well. But even so, I kept my sleep schedule and routine. Sure enough, I started sleeping like a baby. Especially if I went out in the morning sunlight for 15 minutes. This is a natural way of resetting your circadian rhythm ( sleep cycle). 

Sorry this was long. But I didn’t want to leave out something that would help you. And oh yes, I also made a rule to not take anything to try to “ help”. I’ve read that anything that makes you sleepy, mainly does so by attaching to gaba receptors in the brain. I stayed away because I didn’t want to confuse my brain into thinking I’m dosing again.

Best wishes! Big hugs 🤗

[[La...]]

Hello Team Z!!!

 

Way to go, nice to see everyone's posts!!

 

Whitebeach, congratulations!!! Sorry for the trouble, hope you get better soon. I know others will have some response, I didn't have that symptom.

 

Jerry! Nice to hear of your success in taper and connecting with friends and the very sweet gift from your Dad! Congrats!!

 

Deanne, that will be a very nice gift for your daughter!

 

Pugtragic, way to go!!

 

Well, I can't believe I'm about 10 months off this poison that made my life so bad with undiagnosed mysterious miserable and sometimes horrific symptoms that I had NO were due to Ambien! Some nights I struggle with sleep and it's really a bummer but overall I am soooo so so SO MUCH BETTER. I DETEST Ambien and anything that affects my Gaba receptors and meds and doctors, lol. Period. End of story.

 

This taper stuff is HARD WORK. We need each other and we need support and we need to just get through one day at a a time. I'm glad I went low and slow, it was very right for me. OMG I am soooo glad that's over. There was a big fire 3 blocks from my house the other night and I didn't hear anything, I slept through it! Cool!

  Congrats on 10 months and you did very well. Look at you now! Working and feeling better. Keep up the good work, my dear friend. You were on Ambien for over 20 years but look at you now! Love and hugs.

[[wh...]]

Help please with Zoplidem (Ambien) taper and symptoms.

 

From Jan 2021 I tapered to half a pill 5mg, did that for 6 months, then september 2021 halfed that to 2.5mg.

 

three weeks ago I halfed it again to aprox 1.25 mg. the last week I have halfed again to what could be described as crumbs.

 

Feeling very ill, nausea, lightheaded and very dizzy when I turn my head from one side to the other when lying down.

 

Is there anything I can do to help these symptoms. I am about to stop the Z drug and need help.

 

Many thanks.

 

Congratulations on your soon to be freedom, I know you feel terrible but once you're off of the drug, I believe you'll begin to feel much better.  I just need to be sure which drug you're actually taking, is it Zopiclone/Zopiderm or Zolpidem/Ambien, it seems like there was some confusion earlier.

 

Hi Pamster, It is Zolpidem. Do you think I should try taking some valium?

[[Li...]]

Hello Whitebeach and a warm welcome to Team Z! 

Firstly, let me echo our lovely Admin Pam in saying congrats on your jumping place. Yes, IMO, when you’re down to crumb then it’s time to jump off. This is a victory for you and should be celebrated even though you feel like crap right now. So what I did was made my last dose a special night. I gave myself a treat ( something I really wanted) the first night without that tiny crumb. I meditated, took a soothing warm bath, played calming ocean waves with piano music from YouTube, hugged my teddy bear and just mentally stayed on my “ lovely beach” with eyes closed in a very dark room. My rule to myself was….absolutely NO thinking about Ambien ( zolpidem) and no what if’s or worrying about if I’ll sleep. The task was to be greatly relaxed and calm and see what happens. Now, mind you, I was over the moon excited to be off because when I got down to my last mgs the zolpidem made me feel very sick 20 minutes after my dose. And that lasted hours! This is called paradoxical effect. Sure enough, the first night I didn’t take it, I wasn’t very sick at all…this was Father’s Day night  I chose that day because my Heavenly Father is the one who deserves ALL the credit for ridding me of that poison. Getting off will generate mixed feelings. This is normal and ok. But, you’ve come this far so the finish line is right within reach. Pick a guarantee date for your jump….don’t dwell on it so distract yourself keeping your mind busy….You can do this! You got this!

Your symptoms….well, it is all normal to feel symptoms because of several factors: tolerance, interdose withdrawal, tapering off, the brain realizing it and reacting or paradoxical effects. It may be all of those or a couple. Either way, that’s WHY you feel rotten symptoms. The good news is they are TEMPORARY, my friend. You are entering acute phase. Your brain is working hard trying to figure out how to “ operate in a balanced way without the disruption of the Ambien” . Symptoms are expected. It is best to accept them as normal under the circumstances. To cope with them it’s a good idea to incorporate copiing tools. Such as meditation, praying ( if you’re religious), listening to soothing music, starting a task ( jigsaw puzzle, new hobby, learn a new language, go for a walk, coloring, online games, movies, etc) Fill your day with a schedule of events to keep yourself busy. This keeps the focus off of your symptoms which causes stress which stress makes it worse. What I did was wrote down hour by hour what I’d be doing. And included in the schedule was something I enjoyed. Something that made me smile, happy or laugh. Also times when I’d be resting quietly. This is ideal to have a quiet space reserved for resting. Many times I would pretend I’m at a spa. Doing this schedule made my day pass quick…the days add up and next thing you know you’ll be 2 weeks off, then 1 month, 2, etc. Your symptoms will run their course and over time, settle down. You may notice that some left immediately after stopping. As far as the dizziness…we’ll, I’m the queen of dizzy boatiness throughout this whole ordeal. It’s now much better and gradually still fading. Please don’t let how long mine hung around deter you. This is MY experience and not a model for what will be yours. Many buddies before you had dizziness/ boaty feeling and it would pop in and out at random times or some had it for a few months then it just vanished for good. Dizziness is a very very very common symptom. My advice is to not let it scare you. It’s disturbing, yes. Debilitating, yes. Annoying, yes. But temporary in nearly 100% of the cases if the culprit is benzos or Z-drugs. I’m really proud of the good job you’ve done. Until your dizziness improves, please be careful when moving around. Be safe, be stable, be careful. I tried those fancy vestibular therapists, vestibular exercises, etc.  None of it helped. Testing was normal as well. I’m not telling you what to do but if you go those routes, don’t be surprised if they don’t help. We do have a cure for our symptoms…..TIME. The Ambien packed some mean punches to your gaba receptors. That might take some time to heal and it might not take long. It’s a matter of your individual rate of healing. Time is your advocate in this. Keep stress away and keep busy to pass that time. We are here with you. We understand what you’re going through. We support you. Rest assured that you’re not alone.

One last thing, do you have a sleep routine? If you don’t, I’d suggest you go to bed at the same time each night while implementing good sleep hygiene. Over time this reminds the brain what to do when it “ sees” you getting ready for bed. IMO if you stick to a strict routine, it is beneficial in the long run. Some people have rebound insomnia which is common when coming off sleeping pills. If you don’t get enough sleep, it’s ok. Nobody has died from only getting 2-3 hours of sleep. NOBODY! IMO, making peace with it is the best thing to do. Sometimes you just won’t sleep well. But even so, I kept my sleep schedule and routine. Sure enough, I started sleeping like a baby. Especially if I went out in the morning sunlight for 15 minutes. This is a natural way of resetting your circadian rhythm ( sleep cycle). 

Sorry this was long. But I didn’t want to leave out something that would help you. And oh yes, I also made a rule to not take anything to try to “ help”. I’ve read that anything that makes you sleepy, mainly does so by attaching to gaba receptors in the brain. I stayed away because I didn’t want to confuse my brain into thinking I’m dosing again.

Best wishes! Big hugs

 

Ha LadyDen

Wooow! This is a very very good advice! When I am ready to jump I will re-read it. I admire you for taking the time to write it and help Whitebeach with her taper.  I am also wondering for a while why I have height anxiety and feel dizzy so often, and now I get it, it is a tolerance/side effect of using and tapering Zopiclone. I wondered why I have this feeling while my bloodpressure is ok. Thxxx! Jerry

[[Pa...]]

Help please with Zoplidem (Ambien) taper and symptoms.

 

From Jan 2021 I tapered to half a pill 5mg, did that for 6 months, then september 2021 halfed that to 2.5mg.

 

three weeks ago I halfed it again to aprox 1.25 mg. the last week I have halfed again to what could be described as crumbs.

 

Feeling very ill, nausea, lightheaded and very dizzy when I turn my head from one side to the other when lying down.

 

Is there anything I can do to help these symptoms. I am about to stop the Z drug and need help.

 

Many thanks.

 

Congratulations on your soon to be freedom, I know you feel terrible but once you're off of the drug, I believe you'll begin to feel much better.  I just need to be sure which drug you're actually taking, is it Zopiclone/Zopiderm or Zolpidem/Ambien, it seems like there was some confusion earlier.

 

Hi Pamster, It is Zolpidem. Do you think I should try taking some valium?

 

Thanks for the clarification whitebeach, nope, I don't think adding Valium would be a good idea, I believe you might want to do exactly what LadyDen suggested, make your jump and reward yourself with something good because even though you feel awful you've done a brave and painful thing and you deserve to treat yourself nice. 

[[wh...]]

Hello Whitebeach and a warm welcome to Team Z! 

Firstly, let me echo our lovely Admin Pam in saying congrats on your jumping place. Yes, IMO, when you’re down to crumb then it’s time to jump off. This is a victory for you and should be celebrated even though you feel like crap right now. So what I did was made my last dose a special night. I gave myself a treat ( something I really wanted) the first night without that tiny crumb. I meditated, took a soothing warm bath, played calming ocean waves with piano music from YouTube, hugged my teddy bear and just mentally stayed on my “ lovely beach” with eyes closed in a very dark room. My rule to myself was….absolutely NO thinking about Ambien ( zolpidem) and no what if’s or worrying about if I’ll sleep. The task was to be greatly relaxed and calm and see what happens. Now, mind you, I was over the moon excited to be off because when I got down to my last mgs the zolpidem made me feel very sick 20 minutes after my dose. And that lasted hours! This is called paradoxical effect. Sure enough, the first night I didn’t take it, I wasn’t very sick at all…this was Father’s Day night  I chose that day because my Heavenly Father is the one who deserves ALL the credit for ridding me of that poison. Getting off will generate mixed feelings. This is normal and ok. But, you’ve come this far so the finish line is right within reach. Pick a guarantee date for your jump….don’t dwell on it so distract yourself keeping your mind busy….You can do this! You got this!

Your symptoms….well, it is all normal to feel symptoms because of several factors: tolerance, interdose withdrawal, tapering off, the brain realizing it and reacting or paradoxical effects. It may be all of those or a couple. Either way, that’s WHY you feel rotten symptoms. The good news is they are TEMPORARY, my friend. You are entering acute phase. Your brain is working hard trying to figure out how to “ operate in a balanced way without the disruption of the Ambien” . Symptoms are expected. It is best to accept them as normal under the circumstances. To cope with them it’s a good idea to incorporate copiing tools. Such as meditation, praying ( if you’re religious), listening to soothing music, starting a task ( jigsaw puzzle, new hobby, learn a new language, go for a walk, coloring, online games, movies, etc) Fill your day with a schedule of events to keep yourself busy. This keeps the focus off of your symptoms which causes stress which stress makes it worse. What I did was wrote down hour by hour what I’d be doing. And included in the schedule was something I enjoyed. Something that made me smile, happy or laugh. Also times when I’d be resting quietly. This is ideal to have a quiet space reserved for resting. Many times I would pretend I’m at a spa. Doing this schedule made my day pass quick…the days add up and next thing you know you’ll be 2 weeks off, then 1 month, 2, etc. Your symptoms will run their course and over time, settle down. You may notice that some left immediately after stopping. As far as the dizziness…we’ll, I’m the queen of dizzy boatiness throughout this whole ordeal. It’s now much better and gradually still fading. Please don’t let how long mine hung around deter you. This is MY experience and not a model for what will be yours. Many buddies before you had dizziness/ boaty feeling and it would pop in and out at random times or some had it for a few months then it just vanished for good. Dizziness is a very very very common symptom. My advice is to not let it scare you. It’s disturbing, yes. Debilitating, yes. Annoying, yes. But temporary in nearly 100% of the cases if the culprit is benzos or Z-drugs. I’m really proud of the good job you’ve done. Until your dizziness improves, please be careful when moving around. Be safe, be stable, be careful. I tried those fancy vestibular therapists, vestibular exercises, etc.  None of it helped. Testing was normal as well. I’m not telling you what to do but if you go those routes, don’t be surprised if they don’t help. We do have a cure for our symptoms…..TIME. The Ambien packed some mean punches to your gaba receptors. That might take some time to heal and it might not take long. It’s a matter of your individual rate of healing. Time is your advocate in this. Keep stress away and keep busy to pass that time. We are here with you. We understand what you’re going through. We support you. Rest assured that you’re not alone.

One last thing, do you have a sleep routine? If you don’t, I’d suggest you go to bed at the same time each night while implementing good sleep hygiene. Over time this reminds the brain what to do when it “ sees” you getting ready for bed. IMO if you stick to a strict routine, it is beneficial in the long run. Some people have rebound insomnia which is common when coming off sleeping pills. If you don’t get enough sleep, it’s ok. Nobody has died from only getting 2-3 hours of sleep. NOBODY! IMO, making peace with it is the best thing to do. Sometimes you just won’t sleep well. But even so, I kept my sleep schedule and routine. Sure enough, I started sleeping like a baby. Especially if I went out in the morning sunlight for 15 minutes. This is a natural way of resetting your circadian rhythm ( sleep cycle). 

Sorry this was long. But I didn’t want to leave out something that would help you. And oh yes, I also made a rule to not take anything to try to “ help”. I’ve read that anything that makes you sleepy, mainly does so by attaching to gaba receptors in the brain. I stayed away because I didn’t want to confuse my brain into thinking I’m dosing again.

Best wishes! Big hugs 🤗

 

Thank you so much for your inspirational post. Unfortunately I suffer from CFS/ME and not enough sleep means a relapse and horrible CFS symptoms, hence the original need for sleeping pills. Last night I jumped until 2 am when I took a few crumbs. I will try again tonight. Thank you again.

[[Li...]]

Ha Zzers, I am wondering where you all come from? I live in The Netherlands, in a town called Alkmaar which is 40 km above Amsterdam. Alkmaar is famous for its cheese market. I also lived 8 years in Delft, the town where painter Vermeer lived. I studied architecture there at the Technical University. Hugg Jerry

[[La...]]

Whitebeach, don’t give up. You can do this! That crumb is not going to help. Best wishes. 

 

Morning Team Z! Sending my love to you all.

 

Jerry I am from Louisiana but now live in South Carolina. Both of those are in the south USA. SC is located on the southeast coast. There’s beautiful waterfalls here throughout the state and palmetto trees. It’s a lovely place to live but I love Louisiana more. Louisiana is like going to another country lol France to be specific. It’s very much French influenced…. The food, languages, culture, music, festivals, ways of life, design of structures, etc. But not just French influenced. It’s also of Native American and African influences. All of those are mixed together in a beautiful magical like world. South Carolina is the opposite. It is so laid back with relaxed peaceful quiet lifestyle. Sit on the porch all day and watch your kids or grandkids play in the yard while you sip tea or coffee. There’s also a beach lifestyle if you live near myrtle beach. Great state to raise a family with plenty of trails, mountains and waterfalls to enjoy. And even have caves. All you need is some homemade peach cobbler to brighten your day. There’s a whole small city based on peaches here.   

[[Li...]]

Whitebeach, don’t give up. You can do this! That crumb is not going to help. Best wishes. 

 

Morning Team Z! Sending my love to you all.

 

Jerry I am from Louisiana but now live in South Carolina. Both of those are in the south USA. SC is located on the southeast coast. There’s beautiful waterfalls here throughout the state and palmetto trees. It’s a lovely place to live but I love Louisiana more. Louisiana is like going to another country lol France to be specific. It’s very much French influenced…. The food, languages, culture, music, festivals, ways of life, design of structures, etc. But not just French influenced. It’s also of Native American and African influences. All of those are mixed together in a beautiful magical like world. South Carolina is the opposite. It is so laid back with relaxed peaceful quiet lifestyle. Sit on the porch all day and watch your kids or grandkids play in the yard while you sip tea or coffee. There’s also a beach lifestyle if you live near myrtle beach. Great state to raise a family with plenty of trails, mountains and waterfalls to enjoy. And even have caves. All you need is some homemade peach cobbler to brighten your day. There’s a whole small city based on peaches here. 

 

Ha LD,

Both places sound great, you must be lucky to life there. We have a nice beach and also dunes along the west coast of Netherland. No mountains or waterfalls here, only flat land. This time of the year with a lot of tullip fields. Tourists love it. The Dutch love cycling too, everyone has one or two bikes here…

 

I have not a good day today, feel really groggy. Went swimming, but that didn’t help much. The weather is good here, sunny, little wind, not too warm. I also went to the dietist, my weight is ok and stable. Also spoke with my saxophone playing physiotherapist. Huggs Jerry

[[He...]]

Hi Lightspacer,

 

You live in a beautiful part of the world too! My son went there and loved it.  I live just north of Lady Den. It's beautiful here but summer time is hellishly hot and humid. 

 

I just wanted to pop in and tell you that I get those days of being extremely groggy. It's very hard to get through the day when you feel that groggy.  I'm sorry the swimming didn't help. When I get like that, nothing helps. Hopefully, you'll come out of that and have a better day tomorrow. 

[[De...]]

Hello All!  Thought I would pop in and tell you that I live in a suburb of Richmond, VA.  It is considered part of the mid-Atlantic states and is very hot and humid during the summer.  It is nice, but I prefer the coastal towns of New England in the northeast, especially in the summer.  I lived in New Jersey for 30 years during my career, and I liked the weather there better even though the winters were harsher. 

 

I don't think you could call New Jersey or Richmond, VA beautiful, but it is nice in most respects.  The Atlantic coast beaches are very beautiful to me :-)

[[Ag...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

I hope you guys are doing well (or as well as can be expected). I do not regularly post here but I wanted to check in to share how my zolpidem taper is going. I have been on the (fairly ambitious) schedule below. 

 

9.02mg (1 week)8.10mg (1 week)
7.28mg (1 week)6.58mg (1 week)

5.92mg (1 week)

5.32mg (1 week)

4.78mg (1 week)

 

I have been at 4.78 mgs for 6 days now. Cutting 10% of the current dosage every 7 days. It works out to a 20 week/5 month taper if I stay to the weekly cut (I may slow down).

 

Despite feeling crappy virtually all of the time, the cuts went as well as could be expected the first five or six weeks. However, in the past few days, I have had some pretty severe anxiety. I also have muscle pain almost all of the time and headaches quite often. I also get waves of depression and, of course, feelings of worthlessness for having been so stupid to start on this poison to begin with.

 

Also, I should say that my sleep has never been good while on the zolpidem. I usually wake between 3 and 4am and cannot fall back asleep. I  have been averaging between 4-5 hours sleep for 6 months or more. Haven't had more than 5 hours sleep in at least 6 months. It is horrific as you guys will probably well know! Even so, I will not stay on this poison and am determined to get off come what may.

 

I wonder if I should slow down and hold each cut for 10 days (or even 14) if necessary rather than 7 as I keep going. I have promised myself that, once off, I will never go back on this stuff so I want to make this taper stick. Like everyone here, I want off this crap yesterday! However, taking the long-term view, maybe holding for 10 or, if necessary, 14 days might be wise. I guess the best course is to listen to my body and slow down if it gets really rough. Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

Does anyone have any tips on how to handle late night/early morning wakeups? I wake like clockwork whether I have to go to the bathroom or not between 3 and 4am and, for the life of me, cannot fall back asleep. I don't rant and rave, I don't punch the pillow, I breathe, I am calm, sometimes I'll play a sleep meditation but I cannot fall back asleep. This pattern has continued ever since I started on the zolpidem at the end of June 2021. Before that, I would wake for the bathroom but would fall back to sleep no problem.  

 

I have been using the cbt-i techniques of sleep restriction and stimulus control when I can't fall back to sleep. So far, no results but I know you're not supposed to have any expectations. Has anyone found success with these techniques while tapering or after having finished tapering?  Am I wasting my time doing these things while still on the zolpidem?

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on supplements to help get over the hump until sleep starts to recover (0.3mgs melatonin?, taurine? low doses of magnesium glycinate? anything else?). Of course, I'd prefer not to take anything. However, I am teetering right on the edge of functionality and very, very much want to continue to work. I know LadyDen is adamant about not taking anything to help her. Anyone here have any thoughts?

 

My sleep is slowly getting worse as I taper. I feel like, in a way, what I'm doing by tapering off zolpidem is insanity. Is my sleep going to decline to zero and am I just going to fade away? Is it crazy wishful thinking to hope that sleep could actually get better when I am off this poison?  Whatever the case, I won't continue taking this.  

 

Everyone here is an inspiration to me as you are the only ones I know who have experienced (or are experiencing) what I am going through.  

 

Thank you so much.

 

Best to all,

 

Agoura

[[De...]]

Agoura, You are right in the thick of it, aren't you?!  I totally remember being right where you are with the middle of the night wake ups or even not even falling asleep for hours on end.  It is so frustrating, but I was determined not to make my insomnia an issue while I got off the poison.  I had developed inter-dose withdrawal and chronic nerve pain, so the lack of sleep was the least of my issues.

 

With regard to your taper, you'll have to just listen to your body.  I think it is all about going slow enough to remain as functional as possible.  I tapered very quickly.  I went from 10 mg down to 5mg right away, then every 10 days dropped a chunk.  I ended up getting off in 5 weeks and never ever took another crumb.  But acute hit me like a ton of bricks.  I am currently about 21 months off and have made good progress but still have plenty more to go.

 

The sleep came back better than I could have hoped.  But very slowly.  At about 4 months I started sleeping better with the help of a grounding mat.  The 3am awakenings went on for a while and even now pop in here and there.  The best advice is to just plan on ways to keep your mind calm and serene without getting frustrated.  And even if you're not sleeping you are resting your body.

 

I think alot of ppl feel that the CBT-I is useless for benzo withdrawal insomnia.  But the tactics are good habits to keep as they will work eventually.

 

 

[[Ka...]]

Agoura,

 

Great to see your update!! I've wondered how you've been. So very sorry for your struggle. I understand you want to keep working and think that is very good. Staying home sick can make some of us worse mentally! I was home during my taper and it didn't make me worse but at about the halfway mark I knew I wanted to get back to working again. I truly got my life back with this taper.

 

Do not get down on yourself for taking this, no no no. No point, it's all behind us now. But I felt SO SAD and MAD that I gave so much of my life to ambien.

 

Sounds like you are really being tested to the max and may be quite scared of what lays ahead. There's a lot I could not have faced if my taper had been worse and I really feel for those who have it bad. Yet, I had it soooo horrific in the last years before I got off. I still feel very hopeful for you and want you to feel the same.

 

LadyDen is my Rock Star here but I respectfully disagree about trying more natural things that can help sleep, within moderation, for myself and believe everyone has their own choice if they want to experiment. I know Dr. Ashton has a list of what not to take and this is a consideration. I've taken things the whole time and tried different things. Most nights I fall asleep on my own and sleep through the night, but the nights I have trouble on one or the other end are a big challenge to my mental health so I am still trying to work with that. I'm not sure what's worse, that I'm awake or that I'm not just surrendering and getting up to do something to take my mind off my worries about sleeplessness. I use or have used taurine; magnesium; valerian; hops; l-theanine; passionflower and also benadryl just occasionally to reset my mental health with a good night sleep. Sometimes when I've taken 1 or 2 of the herbal capsules at 3am I've gone back to sleep.

 

Another opinion from me: YES, yes yes yes, do the 10 and/or 14 day hold. I did my whole taper at about 14 day intervals, holding a couple of times when under extreme stress. Do Not worry about the end date, please don't push yourself, that is just added stress. I hope holding could make a difference for you. Your idea of holding is the recommended taper schedule and holding in BB terms really means longer than 14 days.

 

I want to share that I did intermittent fasting during my taper. I ate for a window of 6 to 8 hrs a day and the rest of the time just had clear liquids or nothing. There is something called autophagy--where our cells digest waste inside our body--a housecleaning--that occurs at an increased rate when we fast longer than just overnight. I wonder if this could be a factor in me not having worse symptoms while tapering. I also had a cyst shrink by 50% during this time.

 

Does a strong work out or a big carb meal ever help? An intense yoga class truly might, that's a deeper kind of exercise and I can remember it making me sleep. Hot bath? That was a nightly part of my taper routine and have done it many times in the middle of the night to go back to sleep. Progesterone cream that is over the counter is worth looking into in my opinion, not dangerous, yes for women in general but for a sleep help sometimes it is extremely mild, from the health food store.

 

Keep us posted!

[[Ka...]]

Hey Jerry!

I was in your country in 1978, Summer ... Amsterdam. I rode around on a big beautiful bike someone left for others to use!!! Someone let my friend and I stay in their houseboat ... we also stayed at a hostel. I loved it there! Wish I could come back. Nice to hear about it from you. I've heard of Delft and the University there, pretty cool you studied architecture! Did you work in that field?

 

I live in the Pacific Northwest of the US, or PNW as we call it! There is an influence of indigenous cultures here and lots of rain in the Winter. It includes the NW corner of the country and also Canada and even Alaska. We have lots of waterfalls, rainforest and mountain ranges. It's very majestic and people are more kind and layed back here than in more populated areas of the US. The coast is incredibly gorgeous! I'd forgotten you don't have mountains but I feel like where I live is similar to where you live because of the rain and we grow lots of tulips here too!

 

Glad to hear you're hanging in with your taper! Hope you're feeling more energetic but rest is very important too so there's that. Hugs

[[Ka...]]

LadyDen, thanks for the kind words!!!  :smitten:

 

Whitebeach, I'd love to chat with you about CFS/ME and ambien and what I went through on ambien for 20 yrs. PM me if you want ... but really I just want to say I was diagnosed with similar conditions and the improvement off ambien is a huge surprise to me and I have my life back. I bet you will too. It's possible that the diagnosis is really more due to the meds. I did not know this going in to my taper. Doctors don't know it. I had severe pain and no sleep made life impossible so I just kept taking ambien until I left my job due to my symptoms ... BUT I did such a slow taper that it seemed to reduce w/d symptoms for me.

 

Have you ever considered this?

 

Stick with LadyDen, she's the perfect person for you since she went through/has vestibular issues. So glad you're here. I wish you well!

[[De...]]

Agoura,

 

Great to see your update!! I've wondered how you've been. So very sorry for your struggle. I understand you want to keep working and think that is very good. Staying home sick can make some of us worse mentally! I was home during my taper and it didn't make me worse but at about the halfway mark I knew I wanted to get back to working again. I truly got my life back with this taper.

 

Do not get down on yourself for taking this, no no no. No point, it's all behind us now. But I felt SO SAD and MAD that I gave so much of my life to ambien.

 

Sounds like you are really being tested to the max and may be quite scared of what lays ahead. There's a lot I could not have faced if my taper had been worse and I really feel for those who have it bad. Yet, I had it soooo horrific in the last years before I got off. I still feel very hopeful for you and want you to feel the same.

 

LadyDen is my Rock Star here but I respectfully disagree about trying more natural things that can help sleep, within moderation, for myself and believe everyone has their own choice if they want to experiment. I know Dr. Ashton has a list of what not to take and this is a consideration. I've taken things the whole time and tried different things. Most nights I fall asleep on my own and sleep through the night, but the nights I have trouble on one or the other end are a big challenge to my mental health so I am still trying to work with that. I'm not sure what's worse, that I'm awake or that I'm not just surrendering and getting up to do something to take my mind off my worries about sleeplessness. I use or have used taurine; magnesium; valerian; hops; l-theanine; passionflower and also benadryl just occasionally to reset my mental health with a good night sleep. Sometimes when I've taken 1 or 2 of the herbal capsules at 3am I've gone back to sleep.

 

Another opinion from me: YES, yes yes yes, do the 10 and/or 14 day hold. I did my whole taper at about 14 day intervals, holding a couple of times when under extreme stress. Do Not worry about the end date, please don't push yourself, that is just added stress. I hope holding could make a difference for you. Your idea of holding is the recommended taper schedule and holding in BB terms really means longer than 14 days.

 

I want to share that I did intermittent fasting during my taper. I ate for a window of 6 to 8 hrs a day and the rest of the time just had clear liquids or nothing. There is something called autophagy--where our cells digest waste inside our body--a housecleaning--that occurs at an increased rate when we fast longer than just overnight. I wonder if this could be a factor in me not having worse symptoms while tapering. I also had a cyst shrink by 50% during this time.

 

Does a strong work out or a big carb meal ever help? An intense yoga class truly might, that's a deeper kind of exercise and I can remember it making me sleep. Hot bath? That was a nightly part of my taper routine and have done it many times in the middle of the night to go back to sleep. Progesterone cream that is over the counter is worth looking into in my opinion, not dangerous, yes for women in general but for a sleep help sometimes it is extremely mild, from the health food store.

 

Keep us posted!

 

Kachina!  So good to hear from you!  I noticed your reference to intermittent fasting.  I am into about a month of this right now.  It has helped tremendously with turning a corner and giving me more energy.  But did you ever find that it might be too much stress on the body?  I do well mostly, but then if another stress comes along (too much stimulation, etc) it pushes me over the edge into a wave.  I truly believe it is helping, but sometimes I feel that I have to take breaks from it.  Did you find this?  I was sleeping 9 hours, now with IF I am waking up 4:30 am.  I read where this could happen especially with women.

Any insights that you uncovered?

 

Thanks so much!!!

[[La...]]

Whitebeach, don’t give up. You can do this! That crumb is not going to help. Best wishes. 

 

Morning Team Z! Sending my love to you all.

 

Jerry I am from Louisiana but now live in South Carolina. Both of those are in the south USA. SC is located on the southeast coast. There’s beautiful waterfalls here throughout the state and palmetto trees. It’s a lovely place to live but I love Louisiana more. Louisiana is like going to another country lol France to be specific. It’s very much French influenced…. The food, languages, culture, music, festivals, ways of life, design of structures, etc. But not just French influenced. It’s also of Native American and African influences. All of those are mixed together in a beautiful magical like world. South Carolina is the opposite. It is so laid back with relaxed peaceful quiet lifestyle. Sit on the porch all day and watch your kids or grandkids play in the yard while you sip tea or coffee. There’s also a beach lifestyle if you live near myrtle beach. Great state to raise a family with plenty of trails, mountains and waterfalls to enjoy. And even have caves. All you need is some homemade peach cobbler to brighten your day. There’s a whole small city based on peaches here. 

 

Ha LD,

Both places sound great, you must be lucky to life there. We have a nice beach and also dunes along the west coast of Netherland. No mountains or waterfalls here, only flat land. This time of the year with a lot of tullip fields. Tourists love it. The Dutch love cycling too, everyone has one or two bikes here…

 

I have not a good day today, feel really groggy. Went swimming, but that didn’t help much. The weather is good here, sunny, little wind, not too warm. I also went to the dietist, my weight is ok and stable. Also spoke with my saxophone playing physiotherapist. Huggs Jerry

Sounds like you had a pretty good day. Good job on the dietary report. I’m sure that relaxes your mind. You’re doing well my friend. Keep going. You’ll be off soon. Best wishes and keep up the sax playing. You should do an album soon. 

Hugsssss

[[He...]]

So many Pacific northwesterners on BB! My husband was born in Seattle so we have traveled there and to Oregon quite a bit. I used to live in San Francisco and we would fly up the coast. It is so beautiful there and yes, Kachina, majestic. What a great word for your beautiful skies and tall, tall trees. 

 

Kachina, I am 10 1/2 months off Lunesta and Sonata and just last week started intermittent fasting but I'm building up to the 16/8 model. As of now, I'm doing more like 15/9.  I think it's been a good thing. I will add though for Agoura that during my taper I really needed to eat often.  I was underweight from years of the meds making me ill. But it sounds like you did well tapering and fasting which goes to show how different we all are.  Are you still doing fasting?

 

Agoura, I took some antihistamines in the first 3 months or so after I jumped.  Sometimes I even took them during my taper.  Hydroxyzine will make you very sleepy but maybe groggy the next day. I took it for several months total in very small doses.  It was a way to get some sleep. But I also agree with Lady Den that it's going to come down to putting ourselves to sleep. I haven't taken any sort of sleep aid for about 7 months now and I manage somewhere between 5 and 7 hours each night with a 2 or 3 wake ups. I hope you start feeling better very soon and can rest.

 

 

[[La...]]

Super big morning hugs to Team Z! So wonderful to hear from everyone and see posting activity here.

Agoura I see you are having a rough spell. I worded it that way because that’s what it is when coming off. Rest assured that as you get off and go through acute, it will get better. For how long, nobody can tell you that. I made a point of keeping my choice of words limited to the reality instead of how I feel. I used words like temporary instead of saying something suggestive to make me stress myself out even more. Going through this is stressful enough. Having said that…..your brain and body are fighting to get back to its normal state of functioning. This by itself is stressful. It is a direct result of tapering. As you taper the brain is hard at work making adjustments to absences( reduced amounts) that it is accustomed to. If someone is reducing too quickly then the brain has trouble keeping up. The reductions “ pile up” so to speak. This is why rapid tapering is a culprit for making people feel soooooo awful with overwhelming various symptoms hitting them all at once….hard! So it is in my opinion that slow but steady reductions done in a set pattern is best. The reductions need to have reasonable space between them to allow the brain some time to “ get used to or accept” it’s new amount. IMO that reasonable yet average time is 10-14 days. I’m NOT an expert by no means but I do trust that the pioneers who paved the way for us has proved that this is the most doable and less torturous pattern. Having said that, I think your body is telling you that you are reducing too fast. I agree that you might want to strongly consider reducing every 10 days instead of 7. As far as sleeping….that is a mixture of opinions as we all on here have given our input. I can only give my experience on that subject. But I do want to say that in my experience, when I first began tapering, I started CBT-I. I’m sooooo glad I did because as I reduced it trained my brain to lull me to sleep without Ambien. This doesn’t work for everyone but IMO it is worth a try. Also, it isn’t instant in most people. I was blessed that it worked for me fairly quickly. I did have nights that I struggled to drift off but I simply stayed in my very relaxed state until I did. When I was in acute, using cbti I did have to sometimes start over the process. Rebound insomnia is no joke! As you know by now. But cbti is a good tool to use down the road even if it doesn’t help in WD. My opinion is that it certainly won’t hurt to try it out for 2-3 weeks. I coupled this with getting early morning sunlight for 20 minutes to reset my circadian rhythm and increase serotonin naturally. Ok….the next thing, trying things that help. Yes I am reasonably adamant about not introducing things in the body while it is trying to heal. My reasoning is because of several factors: for one, the brain has taken a senseless beating of the gaba receptors over and over - most “ things” that people in recovery try to help with sleep will target the very receptors that are already in need of repair. IMO, so why would anybody want to inflict more hits? Second, because of the down regulated receptors, those things you take probably will not have the desired results. The brain is on high sensitivity and chaotic state. More often than not, taking something might cause the brain to produce bad reactions making WD worse. This is a very avoidable interference. IMO, it is a high risked gamble in several ways. Nobody can predict if it would be a complete disaster or not. But it is YOUR choice. In some cases, it’s a matter of emergency and people in WD HAVE to take other things. Third, needing to take something is a bad habit that got most of us in this mess in the first place. We went to the doctor with sleeping issues or anxiety, etc and this was their fix. So IMO, the last thing we need to do is get dependent on something else along with what we’re suffering already. At some point, don’t we need to give our poor brains and body a much needed break? So yes I’m adamant about not trying this or that during WD. I do not want to disrupt my healing at all. I do not want my brain to think that I need something with every little issue. I wish to Hod that I wouldn’t have listened to my doctor who convinced me that I needed Ambien. I wish I would have known to try a more natural approach. If I did, I would not have had my whole life taken from me for going on 3 years now. ( I’m counting my 10 month taper period and upcoming 22 months). When we put things in our bodies….there’s a price to pay! I’ve heard so many doctors who I hold in high regard say that everything we put in the body has a side effect, especially medications, herbs or supplements. Some are apparent, some are so minor that we don’t notice and some are dangerous especially if the person taking them are ignorant of the proper usage. Out of love, I’m going to strongly suggest you do your research before trying this or that. Once again, it is your body your choice. In closing, I’d like to share this….acceptance is a must IMO and experience. Sometimes, perhaps for awhile, you just won’t sleep well. It’s best to accept it, embrace it because it’s normal under the circumstances that you are tapering. Expect symptoms! They’re pretty much inevitable but also most importantly expect for them to be temporary. In this recovery, our definitions of such words of temporary might need a little adjusting. Temporary might mean a few weeks, months or year. Yet, it is just that….not permanent. Have a coping plan to get through each day. Schedule your day with things that calm you, relax you, breathing techniques, things to do with your hands or keep the mind busy so you don’t fixate on your symptoms. Fixating ( focusing) on them tends to make people entertain the worse case scenarios as well as generate negative thoughts. Those thoughts can become your false realities. What the mind thinks, the body will follow oftentimes. Daily affirmations is ideal even if you don’t feel good. Such things as “ Yes, I’m dizzy but It will settle down soon. At least I’m safe. When I’m not so dizzy I’m going to ….”  One of my favorites is “ Yes, I feel ( whatever symptom) but this isn’t the real me. I’m supposed to feel like this because I’m recovering. So, what can I do that I enjoy until this settles down?” In other words, I’m equally adamant about not giving my symptoms a mental stage to perform. I do my best to observe and not participate in its madness. The madness will happen but I don’t have to let it take everything from me. 

Deanna is correct that even if you’re not sleeping you are resting the body. Near sleep can be just as good. Agoura, my heart goes out to you. In spite of everything you are doing a good job. You are brave and strong to tackle this head on. Please don’t lose sight of your endurance. You soon will be off. Keep the faith and keep going. In time you will clearly see it was the best decision ever. Kachina always says that it was her best too. I echo that…so does Deanna and everyone else. Know that here at Team Z, we are here for you. You got this!!! There’s no easy way to get off symptom free BUT you can minimize the impact with making the right choices. Easy does it 

 

Helen how wonderful to see your post. Yes we are neighbors…high pollen count neighbors. 😂 hellously hot is soooo true! And I also get hit with overwhelming sleepiness as if I took a sleeping pill. Wow it is hard to stay awake. It is now short lived and less intense. Hope you enjoy your weekend.

 

Deanna VA does has some lovely places I’ve seen in pictures. Very historical area as well. I’ve never been but it is on my list when I’m recovered enough to travel. For some reason I didn’t think it was so hot there. Wow I guess we learn something new at any time. But trust me when I say this…you don’t know what hot is unless you come down south. Lol  Helen knows what I mean. It’s hotter than Satan breath! 😆 good to hear from you as always.

 

Kachina, lovely post. And it is ok for us to disagree. After all everyone is different with each having their own body. What works for you won’t necessarily work for me or vice versa. So, it is definitely ok with me that you disagree. And you have just as much right as we all do to express things. Your experiences might help someone or Helen’s or Deanna, Jerry, me, etc. That’s why this forum is so valuable. I’ve shared CBTI with some on here and it helped a great deal. Then for some, it doesn’t help. I think it is so awesome of you to take the time to try to help. You’re a very sweet person that I cherish. I said all that to say that we are not called Team Z for nothing!  Nothing but love here and sweet sleep wishes. I’m so happy that after 20 years of Ambien, you are approaching 1 year and doing well. Way to go! You got off like a true warrior. I remember how proud I was of you when you jumped. Wow!!! Can you believe it’s been almost a year? Is it me or does it seem like time is flying! ?

 

Love and happy healing to you all. Keep up the good work! ❤️

[[Li...]]

Ha Zz people,

Yesterday afternoon and evening were really busy. i went with my father and a couple, friends, to a concert and after that we had a pancake meal. It was really nice, but today I found out it was too much for me. Felt really lightheaded in the supermarket this afternoon.  Tonight my father is here with me to watch a Dutch cup football final. Huggs for all of  you! Jerry

[[De...]]

Hi Jerry, Oh yes that is very very common and at 21 months off I am still finding out that some aspects of normal life are still too much for me.  Yesterday we had Easter dinner over my husband's family's home, and it was loud and hectic.  I was standing there and felt the anxiety coming on.  Thankfully sitting down helped.  Today I am wiped out with fatigue.

 

Rest and take good care of yourself.  You are healing.

[[La...]]

Deanna that was not easy. You did well my dear! Congrats on 21 months.  You’re doing great!

 

I’m 22 months today! Yay! Wow what a journey.

 

Love to you all…. Kachina, Helen, Jerry, Agoura, etc…..

 

:smitten:

 

Stay the course. 

 

[[He...]]

Jerry,

 

I'm so glad you got to have a nice time at a concert and pancake dinner. I'm sorry you got so tired afterward but that is pretty typical.  I find that I have to rest a lot in between activities just to keep my nervous system in check.  Keep trying things and see how your energy holds up with planned rest breaks in between. It's so great that you got to do something nice!

 

Helen

[[De...]]

LadyD!! Congratulations on 22 months!!! I can’t believe how far out we are now but so grateful for it !!!!  Have a celebratory herbal tea for me 💕