Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Li...]]

This may sound all a bit weird... but I try to give it a deeper meaning...

[[Li...]]

I am doubting whether I should write here or in my buddy blog. I think here is better, because here people come who also taper z-drugs, like me. Today is a good day because I worked on the website of the wife of a good friend. beyou-yogaencoaching.nl I also helped cleaning my house. One of the next days I’ll do the next step of my taper...

Jerry

[[Li...]]

Still no other z-drug taperers?

[[Pa...]]

I didn't taper Klonopin or Ambien, quit both cold turkey but agree with you that the Z drug isn't as awful as the benzo, of course opinions vary.  One major thing the Ambien did to me was the suicidal ideation, that was much worse than the Klonopin, scary stuff.

[[Li...]]

Ha Pamster,

Yes, I know what you mean, I also have these thoughts, the effect of tapering/tolerance withdrawal  is very mental. It feels like a strong depression. Thats why I want to do it as slow as possible. Also because I have used zopiclone appr. 16 years. My brain has to keep up with tapering. How long did you use ambien?

Jerry

[[Pa...]]

I started using it a few months after my cold turkey from Klonopin, so about 8 months.  Once I quit, all of my withdrawals from the went away, I was keeping myself sick by taking the Ambien to cope with the Klonopin cold turkey, what an idiot. 

[[Li...]]

It is a logic thing to solve an problem with another problem. But it can make things worse. Yesterday an today were really tough for me. It learns me that I have to take more time for a taper step. Maybe a month for 1 mm zopiclone filed off. I wish that I could speed up but I have to listen to my body. I also got the news that my current shrink is going to stop from 1 may off. I will get another one, but it means I have to adjust again to the new one. Today I read in the newspaper that Lee Konitz, a saxophone player, died yesterday of Corona. I know he played with Miles Davis. I am also a saxophone player, so it ‘makes’ me sad to hear this news. I am now watching a concert of him on Youtube...

Jerry

[[Li...]]

Still no sign here of other people doing a z-drug taper. Last night was quite tough for me, I woke up in the middle of the night and had trouble falling asleep again. I think I will stay at home today.

[[Ho...]]

I'm cutting a z-drug, ambien (zolpidem). Not a taper. I was taking 10 mg as I was microtapering xanax. At some point I decided to reduce my ambien intake, so I cut to 7.5 mg for a week, and then cut to 5 mg. During those cuts I held on my xanax taper. I stayed at 5 mg ambien and started reducing the xanax again. Now I'm at a point where I think I need to reduce the ambien again. I notice symptoms ramp up in the afternoon, and I don't know if it's due to the xanax taper or because I'm still taking 5 mg ambien every night. But the symptoms go away in the early evening and I'm fine again.

 

My sleep has never been good. I tend to need to stay in bed for a solid 10 hours, but it's not restful sleep. One thing I love about ambien is it gets rid of the dreams. The vivid, colorful, not necessarily scary but often disturbing, dreams. I hate the dreams. Even if they're ordinary run of the mill nothing exciting happens dreams, I still hate them. I've had these dreams for my whole adult life at least. I remember having these dreams in college. When I started taking ambien the dreams went away, and my sleep was restful! I woke up feeling refreshed. And since I cut the ambien to 5 mg the dreams have returned, mainly later in the night or early morning, after the ambien has worn off but before I wake up. I started taking ambien 4 years ago.

 

That's why I'm kind of hesitant to get rid of the ambien completely.

[[Pa...]]

I'm cutting a z-drug, ambien (zolpidem). Not a taper. I was taking 10 mg as I was microtapering xanax. At some point I decided to reduce my ambien intake, so I cut to 7.5 mg for a week, and then cut to 5 mg. During those cuts I held on my xanax taper. I stayed at 5 mg ambien and started reducing the xanax again. Now I'm at a point where I think I need to reduce the ambien again. I notice symptoms ramp up in the afternoon, and I don't know if it's due to the xanax taper or because I'm still taking 5 mg ambien every night. But the symptoms go away in the early evening and I'm fine again.

 

My sleep has never been good. I tend to need to stay in bed for a solid 10 hours, but it's not restful sleep. One thing I love about ambien is it gets rid of the dreams. The vivid, colorful, not necessarily scary but often disturbing, dreams. I hate the dreams. Even if they're ordinary run of the mill nothing exciting happens dreams, I still hate them. I've had these dreams for my whole adult life at least. I remember having these dreams in college. When I started taking ambien the dreams went away, and my sleep was restful! I woke up feeling refreshed. And since I cut the ambien to 5 mg the dreams have returned, mainly later in the night or early morning, after the ambien has worn off but before I wake up. I started taking ambien 4 years ago.

 

That's why I'm kind of hesitant to get rid of the ambien completely.

 

When I quit Ambien cold turkey I had horrible dreams, slasher type which I attributed to the discontinuation, they lasted about a week.  Now I can remember some of my dreams and they're not bad ones but I know what you mean about dreams.  Sometimes I'll wake up anxious because I've had disturbing ones, like just recently I dreamed I went into a grocery store and didn't adhere to social distancing guidelines, I think I could do without them as well. 

 

I found Ambien sleep to not be restful, I would wake up in the morning alert but not feel deeply rested like I do now.  To wake up slowly with a feeling deep in my chest of peace is wonderful.  Of course, I'm not guaranteed this feeling every morning because I'm not on the drug and at the whims of the sleep gods but still, it's a great feeling I don't want to give up.

 

I find it interesting that you're experiencing symptoms in the afternoon which I would automatically attribute to the Ambien but when they go away in the evening, it's perplexing.  You're on two such short acting drugs, it must be difficult to know what is causing what.

[[Na...]]

I didn't taper Klonopin or Ambien, quit both cold turkey but agree with you that the Z drug isn't as awful as the benzo, of course opinions vary.  One major thing the Ambien did to me was the suicidal ideation, that was much worse than the Klonopin, scary stuff.

 

On the other hand, I'm still devastated after quitting zopiclone almost 5 years ago, finally ending an almost two decade prescribed use of z-drugs (ambien and lunesta).  It took about 5 years to successfully get off these drugs.

 

I don't know if you cold turkeyed Ambien while still taking a benzo, but if you did you were significantly shielded from the full impact.

 

 

[[Pa...]]

I didn't taper Klonopin or Ambien, quit both cold turkey but agree with you that the Z drug isn't as awful as the benzo, of course opinions vary.  One major thing the Ambien did to me was the suicidal ideation, that was much worse than the Klonopin, scary stuff.

 

On the other hand, I'm still devastated after quitting zopiclone almost 5 years ago, finally ending an almost two decade prescribed use of z-drugs (ambien and lunesta).  It took about 5 years to successfully get off these drugs.

 

I don't know if you cold turkeyed Ambien while still taking a benzo, but if you did you were significantly shielded from the full impact.

 

It seems like I hear worse stories from those who took Zopiclone as opposed to Ambien, but that's only an observation not based on any data.  I know how lucky I was avoiding what others have suffered with my cold turkeys from both Klonopin and Ambien.  I was only on Ambien for a few months, and quit it cold turkey 14 months after quitting Klonopin. 

[[Su...]]

Hi I was on Ambien for 7 weeks straight, I used to take it on and off a couple weeks here and there but this 7 weeks straight threw me I’ve the edge. I was having weird symptoms and taking more and more to work. I stopped cold turkey and 48 hours later had a pounding headache that wouldn’t go away. Was thing of reinstating and tapering. Really nervous what I did to myself

[[Pa...]]

Hi SunnyBeach,

 

Do you have any other symptoms besides the headache?  Are you sleeping, if you are, are you having nightmares?  Before you stopped taking it, were you suffering interdose withdrawal, did you feel jittery before it was time to take it again?  Were you able to sleep through the night when you took it or were you waking up earlier and earlier?  Did the Ambien cause you to feel depressed?

 

The reason why I'm asking these questions is because if you do go back on the drug, you'll start this process over and there is no guarantee that you'll feel better if you taper, we just don't know how each person is going to react.

 

In my experience, which is mine alone, stopping it cold turkey worked for me.  I had a rough week or so but I got over it quickly compared to some.  But like I said, you'll hear different stories, outcomes and opinions so do your best to find a solution you feel will work for you.

 

Pamster

[[Su...]]

Hi!

 

So when I would take it 2 weeks then off 2 weeks (typically because RX ran out) when I was done I wouldn’t  be able to sleep for a couple nights but never any issues during the day. The only difference is now I am having this horrible pressure in my head and some nerve tingles. Never experienced any day side affects before. But these past 7 weeks I was taking a lot more than I usually did.

[[Pa...]]

Benzo's have a muscle relaxant quality to them, when we stop taking them our muscles really complain.  I don't know if z-drugs have this quality but if they do, then what you're feeling may be what Professor Ashton describes in her manual.  Honestly, if these are your only symptoms and I'm not minimizing them because I know you're suffering, I would wait a few more days before making a decision which may only prolong your discomfort.  Of course, whatever you decide to do, we'll support you because only you know what you can live with.

 

The Ashton Manual

 

Muscle symptoms. Benzodiazepines are efficient muscle relaxants and are used clinically for spastic conditions ranging from spinal cord disease or injury to the excruciating muscle spasms of tetanus or rabies. It is therefore not surprising that their discontinuation after long-term use is associated with a rebound increase in muscle tension. This rebound accounts for many of the symptoms observed in benzodiazepine withdrawal. Muscle stiffness affecting the limbs, back, neck and jaw are commonly reported, and the constant muscle tension probably accounts for the muscle pains which have a similar distribution. Headaches are usually of the "tension headache" type, due to contraction of muscles at the back of the neck, scalp and forehead - often described as a "tight band around the head". Pain in the jaw and teeth is probably due to involuntary jaw clenching, which often occurs unconsciously during sleep.

 

At the same time, the nerves to the muscles are hyperexcitable, leading to tremor, tics, jerks, spasm and twitching, and jumping at the smallest stimulus. All this constant activity contributes to a feeling of fatigue and weakness ("jelly-legs"). In addition, the muscles, especially the small muscles of the eye, are not well co-ordinated, which may lead to blurred or double vision or even eyelid spasms (blepharospasm).

 

None of these symptoms is harmful, and they need not be a cause of worry once they are understood. The muscle pain and stiffness is actually little different from what is regarded as normal after an unaccustomed bout of exercise, and would be positively expected, even by a well-trained athlete, after running a marathon.

 

There are many measures that will alleviate these symptoms, such as muscle stretching exercises as taught in most gyms, moderate exercise, hot baths, massage and general relaxation exercises. Such measures may give only temporary relief at first, but if practised regularly can speed the recovery of normal muscle tone - which will eventually occur spontaneously.

Bodily sensations. All sorts of strange tinglings, pins and needles, patches of numbness, feelings of electric shocks, sensations of hot and cold, itching, and deep burning pain are not uncommon during benzodiazepine withdrawal. It is difficult to give an exact explanation for these sensations but, like motor nerves, the sensory nerves, along with their connections in the spinal cord and brain, become hyperexcitable during withdrawal. It is possible that sensory receptors in skin and muscle, and in the tissue sheaths around bones, may fire off impulses chaotically in response to stimuli that do not normally affect them.

[[Ho...]]

Two days ago I reduced my ambien from 5 mg to 2.5 mg. So far so good. In fact, the symptoms I was getting in the afternoon seemed to have gone away.

[[Me...]]

One year since a nasty tapered withdrawal from klonopin I found out the “herbal” sleep med I was taking had a substance similar to zopiclone. I have no idea how much was in it but it always worked to give me an uninterrupted sleep. Had symptoms that I had attributed to the k WD but didn’t really connect them to the U-Dream  Been tapering since December , starting in Feb I was have feet and leg burning that initial started in the evening but as time progressed it moved to earlier in the day. It comes and goes. At it’s worse my whole body feels an uncomfortable electrical tingle. Has anyone else had this?  Of course I wonder if this is a WD symptom or some weird auto immune disease. Would really appreciate any input!

[[Li...]]

HI,

I am still on 1/8th of a half tablet zopiclone. I am still going very slow. Tomorrow the swimming pool will be open again, but with Corona protocol. I am very ‘happy’ with this new development. The weather just changed here, I from warm to cold and windy. Today is mothersday, and I bought a couple of fruitdrink bottles for my mother.

Have a nice day!

Jeroen

[[wa...]]

Menemsha -- don't know what you were taking for sleep so can't comment really.  WWB

[[Me...]]

Was taking u-dream-supposedly an herbal out of Canada but was discovered with a molecular substance similar to zopiclone. I’m having terrible leg & body burning/tingling and dizziness. Don’t know if it’s from the zopiclone WD2 weeks ago (but I tapered for a few months)or the 1 year of klonopin. Have been having the leg/etc burning for months too. Not every day but when I get it-it’s horribly disabling. Thoughts?

[[Gw...]]

Has anyone heard of severe withdrawal after a two-week course of Ambien CR? Basically, I used Ativan nightly for roughly two years but eventually tapered off with only minor issues. After one to two months I started taking it again occasionally, roughly 35 1MG tabs over a 190 period. I had no issues taking it and would go a week or more without taking one. I decided I wanted to stop it forever but foolishly thought I needed something for sleep (sleep is the only reason I ever took the Ativan) as I was getting broken sleep at night. In insight it wasn't really that bad.

 

I took Zolpidem CR 12.5 MG for two weeks and on day 15 I decided to stop and suffered a MAJOR panic attack. I took Ativan around four nights thereafter but it didn't help. I am now 13 days without Zolpidem and I am messed up bad. Major anxiety, obsessively thinking about the whole situation, no appetite, no libido, brain fog....I was NOT this way just 20 days ago. I was happy, healthy and perfectly fine other than minor sleep issues.

 

I feel this is from the Zolpidem, it's almost like it is still working or something. Hard to explain. Is it possible to develop withdrawal at this level after just 14 days? I just cannot wrap my brain around this. The difference before and after this drug is truly unreal.

 

Also, can someone explain Acute withdrawal and kindling? Someone in another thread mentioned those terms but I am unfamiliar with them. Any insight is much appreciated.

[[or...]]

Gw, I had a similar experience with zolpidem.

 

I took Ambien 10 mgs for 11 years, then, because it was no longer working for me, I cold-turkeyed it. Oh my goodness. I suffered the torments of hell. Never mind the insomnia (my PDoc told me that's all I would experience -- ha). I sweated, was dizzy, had headaches, had panic/anxiety attacks, felt desperate and generally out of my mind for months. Anyhow, that passed and I got "back to normal".

 

Then, stupidly, two years later, I went back on it. Well, it didn't help me sleep, and  I fell into the same miserable w/ds that I experienced after my cold turkey. Except I fell into the w/ds RIGHT AWAY. Aaargh. So . . . I decided I'd better stop the drug, but withdraw gradually this time. I got my doc to prescribe 5 mg pills and reduced by cutting up my pills. To start, I took one 5 mg pill and cut the other one up into 1/8 ths. Then for 2 weeks I took 10 mgs, then 2 weeks later, 9 7/8 ths, then 9 6/8ths and so on until I was done. The miserable s/x got better at about 5 mgs, but I continued with my reduction until I was finished. It did take awhile, but once my "taper" was finished, I felt okay. No lingering rotten s/x. Of course, I wasn't sleeping, but I addressed that a different way.

 

I don't think it's advisable to cut your Ambien CR. (Also impractical. I remember taking them once -- round pills with a hard shell. Nope.) Can you get your doc to prescribe the immediate release zolpidem? My 5 mg pills were easy to cut up -- sort of long, roundish, rust-colored pills. I used a sharp razor blade. 

 

I hope this helps, Gw.

 

Best to you,

 

 

Katz

[[Gw...]]

Thank your for that info. I guess I'm just perplexed that this is so severe after only 14 days of use and that's what frightens me. It's also bizarre that it started at around 24 hours past my last dose. Scares me because I'm worried my brain is messed up in some freak way. When I tapered the Ativan it really wasn't that difficult (even though I did use it occasionally after the taper). If this is from the Zolpidem than that drug should be permanently banned.

[[or...]]

GW, I doubt this:

 

Scares me because I'm worried my brain is messed up in some freak way.

 

Nah, this will pass. But I understand that you're scared. I think Ambien/zolpidem is as miserable and rotten a drug as any benzo. Indeed, they are kissing cousins. Here's sthg from Wiki:

 

Ambien works by activating the neurotransmitter GABA and binding it to the GABA receptors in the same location as the benzodiazepines such as Xanax and Valium. The extra GABA activity triggered by the drug inhibits the neuron activity that is associated with insomnia. In other words, it slows down the brain.

 

IMO it should never be prescribed. It is as seductive as h**l because it hits you like Maxwell's Silver Hammer in the Beatles' song . . . and then you want more of it. Ahhhhhh . . . just to lie down and sleep. A miracle, right? Wrong. It's a Faustian bargain.

 

During my cold turkey, at night with the sweating and panic and going out of my mind, I felt like I was the reluctant star of some ghastly B movie about drug addiction . . . trapped in a seedy hotel with the red neon light outside flashing on and off, and the O and T missing from the HOTEL name. H  EL indeed.

 

Anyhow, you have two choices, right? Go back on the drug and try to taper it, or tough things out.

 

Hope you feel better, whatever you decide. And you will get your brain back. Promise.

 

 

Katz