Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[or...]]

Do you sleep better removing some ambien?

 

Izzy, you sleep better quitting your Ambien.

 

If you are not sleeping, that should tell you something, right? Namely that the drugs are no longer working. That happens!

 

I tapered off my benzo, then off my Ambien (it wasn't helping anyhow) then the gabapentin. It was a long process, but worth it. Not very taper need be as long as mine, so don't get discouraged. But you will seep better and feel a whole lot better off your Ambien and your other drugs, imo. At least I did.

 

Chin up.

 

 

Katz

[[Kt...]]

I have a question about speed of ambien taper - should it be 5-10% cuts every 2 weeks like Benzos, or is it advisable to go faster?

 

Also, I have a strange situation...  I’ve suddenly been able to do a faster taper in the last 8 weeks, with no insomnia. I’ve realised that the only thing I’ve done differently in the last 8 weeks is bingeing sugar like crazy. Now, when i’ve  tried to quit sugar, I’ve suddenly got terrible insomnia again. Does that make any sense? Is it possible the sugar was somehow allowing me to taper faster than I should have been going?

 

Thanks guys

 

Katie

[[or...]]

I don't know about the sugar, Ktkat.

 

As for the Ambien, I tapered it by asking my doc for 2x5 mg pills instead of 10 mg and started tapering by cutting one 5 mg pill into 1/8s. Approx. I say approx because I used a razor blade to cut them up. Then I reduced by 1/8 a 5 mg pill every month. Tedious, I know. But it worked.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Katz

[[Kt...]]

Thanks Katz. So you tapered 1/8th of a pill per month? With 2 pills, does that mean the whole process took 16 months?

 

Thanks again

 

Katie

[[Su...]]

Am in the last phase of my zopiclone tapering. Started 0.9mg dose tonight and.... not sleeping 

So here I am on benzobuddy!

In addition to insomnia I also have  tinnitus  as a new 24/7 companion

SG

[[or...]]

Katie:

 

Thanks Katz. So you tapered 1/8th of a pill per month? With 2 pills, does that mean the whole process took 16 months?

 

Yup, approx. It was slow, but it worked.

 

Katz

[[wa...]]

I have a question about speed of ambien taper - should it be 5-10% cuts every 2 weeks like Benzos, or is it advisable to go faster?

 

Also, I have a strange situation...  I’ve suddenly been able to do a faster taper in the last 8 weeks, with no insomnia. I’ve realised that the only thing I’ve done differently in the last 8 weeks is bingeing sugar like crazy. Now, when i’ve  tried to quit sugar, I’ve suddenly got terrible insomnia again. Does that make any sense? Is it possible the sugar was somehow allowing me to taper faster than I should have been going?

 

Thanks guys

 

Katie

 

Katie -- do what you can tolerate --- I think I was approx 5% every 2 weeks. and I used a jeweler's scale.  You can go faster -- don't cold turkey, though.  And your physiology goes berserk during this process.  Sugar crash may be making you tired enough to stop the insomnia.  But I don't recommend that as long term.  Your sleep should come back.

W

[[wa...]]

Am in the last phase of my zopiclone tapering. Started 0.9mg dose tonight and.... not sleeping 

So here I am on benzobuddy!

In addition to insomnia I also have  tinnitus  as a new 24/7 companion

SG

Hi -- yep welcome to the misery but I hope it will be short-lived for you.  Tinnitus is common and so is insomnia.  Keep reading and posting.  Try not to updose.  Your brain is trying to recover.

W

[[Su...]]

@[Wa...]

 

Thanks for your kind message and encouragement. You're a gem!

 

I thought of sneakily updosing tonight, say going for 1.1mg or 1.2mg instead of 0.9mg but your encouragement has convinced me otherwise  !

 

It will be another tough night, I know, but I have to go through this. For my loved ones and the great people on this forum.

 

SG

[[Kt...]]

Thank you, wannabebetter - that makes sense. I’m also using a jeweller’s scale

[[Su...]]

Ok, so I jumped last night (the previous night I was on 0.85mg of zopiclone or an equivalent of 0.56mg of diazepam). I was very apprehensive given the traumatic experience I had in December.

 

As anticipated I did not sleep well (woke up a few times but had no problem falling asleep) but felt surprisingly refreshed in the morning. It seems the anxiety and, above all, the depressive mood have both vanished overnight. Tinnitus (faint, very high pitch hiss/ring) and abdominal cramps remain, though they are not as bad as they were say 3 days ago.

 

I do not know if this general improvement of my condition will be short-lived or not. Hopefully, I am now benzo-free and this is the start of my post-withdrawal recovery.

 

SG

[[wa...]]

Congrats, SG

 

See how it goes.  Sounds like you're doing fine.

 

WBB

 

[[Su...]]

Thanks for your kind @WannaBeBetter.

Unfortunately, the feel good factor of the first night was short-lived. I think a lot of it was done to psychology rather than physiology.

The last 2 nights have not been great though they have not been particularly bad in the light of my previous 2 months. I probably need to exercise more to find sleep more easily but with the back pain, it's tough. 

The tinnitus is still there :-( and so is the anxiety related to it. My T has changed since stopping the zopiclone and is perhaps a bit louder though it's hard to say objectively. I guess it will take weeks/months (years!?!?) before I experience any change in my tinnitus. People on this forum mentions that it is one of the last symptoms to go (if it goes at all).

SG

[[50...]]

Thanks for your kind @WannaBeBetter.

Unfortunately, the feel good factor of the first night was short-lived. I think a lot of it was done to psychology rather than physiology.

The last 2 nights have not been great though they have not been particularly bad in the light of my previous 2 months. I probably need to exercise more to find sleep more easily but with the back pain, it's tough. 

The tinnitus is still there :-( and so is the anxiety related to it. My T has changed since stopping the zopiclone and is perhaps a bit louder though it's hard to say objectively. I guess it will take weeks/months (years!?!?) before I experience any change in my tinnitus. People on this forum mentions that it is one of the last symptoms to go (if it goes at all).

SG

 

don't overstress SG. the tinnitus will start leaving you very slowly. you will notice a change in 2 months at the most

[[Su...]]

@[50...]

Thanks for the encouragements. Things are slowly improving and today was a good day with the tinnitus being less intrusive / loud than it used to be. Snxiety was non-existent  So yes, you are right, I need to be patient...

SG

[[He...]]

Hello all,

 

I’m seeing a pdoc currently and yes he is placing me on the ambien doses 5 times a day precisely because of the short half life of the drug.

 

My current schedule is:

 

8am - 50mg ambien

12pm - 40mg ambien

3pm - 40mg ambien and 1mg lorazepam

7pm - 110 ambien, 50mg Valdoxan, 150mg diphenhydramine

1am (or anytime I wake up throughout the night) - 80mg ambien, 1mg lorazepam

 

We have tried converting the 40mg doses to Valium but somehow my body takes it really rough. I still get very anxious, jittery and breathless. I know the reasoning behind the cross taper to Valium but I am wondering if a direct taper off ambien can be done somehow.

 

Sleep wise with all the meds at 7pm, it knocks me out at about 10pm till I wake up at about 3.30am for my middle of the night dose.

 

I constantly feel depressed and anxious at the same time throughout this exercise and would anyone else have any wise words of advice? It would be much appreciated.

 

[[wa...]]

Headspace -- maybe I'm not reading your post right.  It sure looks like you are on a lot of medications.  Are you really taking over 300 mgs Ambien daily?  WBB

[[He...]]

Hi wannabebetter, yes you are reading correctly, I’m on 320mg of ambien daily.

 

Is there anyone that can help? I feel really trapped and depressed in this situation.

 

It’s just me and my pdoc trying to sort this out. We have no detox centers where I live.

[[wa...]]

Well, Headspace -- your dosage is extremely high by any objective standard.  I am frankly shocked that there is an MD would be willing to prescribe this much since the average nightly dose is around 12.5. or even less.  However, without knowing how you got to this place or how long you've been on Ambien - I really think that your docs are the ones responsible for the situation you are in unless you were a street user. I would like to know why they are prescribing this way and how they are monitoring you.  How frequently they taking your vitals, for instance? You need to be medically monitored very closely.

 

So, this is what I would do if it were me (but you must talk to your doc) -- since the half life of the Z drugs is so fast --I'd step down on the Ambien and not trouble myself with crossing over to Valium right now -- maybe later if things get really hairy.  Ask your doc for 5 mgs tabs ( I think that is lowest)and cut 5mg  a day for 2 weeks - see if you can stand it and then another two weeks and so on until you get to a dose where you can decide if you would like to transition on to valium.  You could go slower but I don't see the reason since Ambien kicks in fast and leaves fast.

 

You are in for a long haul.  Thats OK and its doable.  Don't lose hope.  I eventually used a jewelers scale to reduce by  small %s down.  You may want to get one when you get to a lower dose.  Keep posting here about your progress.  Insomnia is part of withdrawal so try to accept it.  It will eventually go away when your brain feels better.  I am interested in what other Ambien users recommend.  I was only on it awhile and before I became Lunesta dependent.

WBB

[[al...]]

Headspace,

The only direction for you to go is down and by that I mean a continuous slow decrease in dosage size. It is a good thing for you that there are no detox centers nearby because they would probably just try to take you off the drug way too fast and at your current dosage that could be devastating.

 

To put it bluntly (I do feel a lot of compassion for your situation), you need to decide that you want to live right now because you probably will not for very much longer if you continue taking that much Ambien daily. The FDA prescribing information states that the maximum dosage for non time-released Ambien should only be 5 mg. for females and 10 mg. for male. It is also intended to be taken at a single dose to aid in sleep. There can be no reason for a legitimate doctor to prescribe what you are taking daily. He or she should be brought up on charges for malpractice. If I were you I would distance myself from that doctor as far and fast as I can.

 

You found yourself in a hard place, but not in an impossible position. Getting off will be both physically and mentally difficult and will take a long time, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel and a shot at many years of happy life ahead. Good luck to you my friend!

[[or...]]

Headspace, about this:

 

I am wondering if a direct taper off ambien can be done somehow.

 

Of course it can. Many of us tapered Ambien directly. All you need to do is what aloha suggested . . . make up your mind to chuck this drug (I'm beyond shocked too at your doctor . . . this is a potentially lethal dose you're on. Whichever country you are in, he should lose his license). It's a huge dose, but it can be done.

 

Conventional wisdom is a reduction of 5-10% every 10-14 days. Someone suggested getting 5 mg pills prescribed and cutting 5 mgs a day. That seems reasonable. You could start there and see how you go. If you don't feel funky, you could increase your taper amount to, say, 15 mgs (approx 5% of 320 mgs).

 

But I'm interested in what YOU plan to do. You have had several ideas/plans suggested. I know you feel alone with just your doc (!) and you to figure things out, but we're here. We'e been where you are but not so deeply in the weeds. All you have to do is . . . make a start.

 

 

Katz

[[Ma...]]

Katz, I was so hoping you would see this post.  Headspace, our best people are with you now.  :thumbsup:  Nothing ahead of you will be easy, but if done correctly, you can do it.  Let us know what your Dr says.  Good luck!!  🍀🍀🍀 Mary

[[He...]]

Hi everyone, thanks for the kind words and support, you have no idea how much they mean to me.

 

To set the record straight, I got into this situation by my own stupidity, popping pills whenever I felt the need to sleep. It was a good feeling, to be able to control exactly when I could sleep. It became a light switch.

 

I knew nothing of tolerance and build up, and no one single doctor prescribed me all this ambien.

 

The doc I’m working with now, I went in initially last December 18th taking about 500-600mgs of Ambien a day. And he has got me down to my current dosing schedule.

 

I WANT to live, that’s why I sought help when I realized that my usage was sky high.

 

 

@Katz, I see my pdoc on a weekly basis but unfortunately where I am the ambien comes only in a 10mg dose. But I can easily split the pills in half to make them 5mg.

 

I’m sorry but I’m not exactly understanding what you mean by the reduction part of your message. Do you mean I should cut down by 5mg every day? And to further cut it down daily by 15mg?

Also, what do you think of my dosage timings and do you have any suggestions as to which dose I should be cutting from?

 

Once again I’m really sorry I’m not following, never done this before and I hope I’m not irritating anyone with the need to be hand held calculations wise.

 

Whatever the case is, I’ll be sure to keep you guys in the loop. I’m seeing my pdoc this Wednesday. Wish me luck guys.

 

 

[[He...]]

My most current schedule is:

 

 

8am - 40mg ambien

12pm - 40mg ambien

3pm - 40mg ambien and 1mg lorazepam

7pm - 100mg ambien, 50mg Valdoxan, 150mg diphenhydramine

1am (or anytime I wake up throughout the night) - 80mg ambien, 1mg lorazepam

 

[[or...]]

Hey, Headspace, thanks for the info.

 

Wow. I've never advised anyone who was on as high a dose as you are. And being on a super short-acting drug creates its own problems. But let's see if we can work something out.

 

You want to know which dose to reduce from, and by how much. If it were me in your situation, I would try a small reduction to the dose I'm taking most of, to try to not upset the applecart initially. In your case, that would be the 7 p.m dose. It's good that you can split your pills. (I split mine too before I got 5 mg pills). I would view this an an experiment to see if your body/brain even notices the reduction. I bet it doesn't -- it's a very small percentage of your 325 mgs. The 7 p.m. dose is your biggest dose, plus you are taking other meds then too. If you reduce by 5mgs and feel no ill effects, I would continue that for a week, then assess things.

 

What do you think of that (simple minded) plan as a first step?

 

Also, you are seeing your pdoc on Wednesday. Do you want to wait to do any reducing until you can get him in the loop? Probably best.

 

Keep us informed, Head. We'll be here to help you.

 

Best,

 

Katz