Valium/Diazepam Support Group

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Thank you so much for the quick reply Mof7B, if I may I have a couple questions

1. How long of a hold when you got to .1

2. Did u ever have to hold short of .1

3  looks like you eliminated the night dose first?

5. Did u realign your 3 doses and how

6. Were your w/d symptoms different on V vs K

7. What does BD mean?

Sorry for so many questions I’m trying to figure out what to do

 

[[Li...]]

Momof7babes: Thank you ever so much for sharing your tapering procedure with us.  It answers two questions I’ve had about tapering diazepam: (1) Is it really necessary to microtaper diazepam — as in make reductions in the range of 0.001mg? and (2) Is making reductions on a daily basis with no holds the only/“optimal” tapering schedule?

 

Like Joeb, I’m curious to learn how long you hold after you reduce each 0.1mg of diazepam.  You are quite savvy so I’m guessing it’s based in part on the pharmacokinetics of diazepam as well as your unique withdrawal pattern.

 

Joeb: I agree with Momof7babes that BD oral syringes are a quality brand. If you’re in the US, I’ve found this source to be reputable:

 

Oral Medicine Syringes | Vitality Medical

[nobbc]https://www.vitalitymedical.com/oral-syringe.html[/nobbc]

(I find the clear syringes easier to read than the amber ones.)

 

Edit: deactivated commercial link

[[Mo...]]

Libertas,

You give me too much credit as I wasn't thinking about that.  Ha.  Thanks for answering about the syringes.  These are actually the ones that I use as they have a tip cap - MPN# 305217.  They also fit PERFECTLY into the medicine bottle adapter plugs that my pharmacy puts in.  I just put the syringe in, tip the bottle upside down and draw up my dose. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/291118588289

 

Joeb,  I originally did NOT hold but just started to once it seemed like symptoms might be ticking up.  Then I started out only holding 1 day after each 10 and eventually went to 2 and 3.  Currently, it's about 4 days but I'm on the very tail and I'm honestly not sure if it's necessary or helpful.  The longest I've held since I switched over to diazepam at one time is a week, I think.  For me, I told myself I would never do a long-ish hold again after my experience holding on Klonopin. 

 

Different withdrawal symptoms - most definitely!  I was incredibly symptomatic while on Klonopin - the list was very long but you could go back and read some of my old posts.  The interdose withdrawal was also pretty bad, despite dosing 3X per day.  It took a good long while to get rid of the tiredness from Valium, though.  The confusion got better over time (also a Valium side effect) but admittedly, is still there some.  The depression WAY better for me and I stopped crying.  The sensitive hearing 90% better.  I gladly traded all of the symptoms  and side effects I got from Valium compared to what I had on Klonopin. 

 

I did not eliminate any doses completely.  I still have 3.  I was only saying that with the liquid part of my dose, which was .5mg to start and tacked on to my night dose, I got rid of first.  I actually did a step wise taper.  So I would taper .1mg of my morning dose, and then hold that one.  Then taper my afternoon dose by .1mg, hold that and then move to my bedtime dose.  I would then be on the same amount for all 3 doses before starting over again on the morning dose.  This just made it easier for my brain.  I also created a spreadsheet on Google Sheets (copied and modified from some other angel) that helped me know what to do and I would cross each day off as I went. 

 

I would insert an attachment so you could see my spreadsheet - it would make it more clear - but I don't know how.

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Libertas,

I read through your questions about tapering diazepam.  I think many can just cut and hold fine with no issues.  I personally feel like a microtaper can be a smoother ride.  When I did cut and hold with Klonopin, I remember the jolt of symptoms hitting a few days after a cut.  I know others who did cut and hold with diazepam would feel their cuts several days in.  There's definitely more than one way to skin a cat (as my husband likes to say, LOL).  I'm glad I did a microtaper and felt it was best for me given how sensitive I am. 

[[Li...]]

Hello again, Momof7babes.  I agree with your husband — there is more than one way to skin a cat.   I regard “cut and hold” and “daily microtaper” as points on a continuum of possibilities, not an either/or choice.  For example, some individuals (myself included) use what I have dubbed the “Just Right for Me” or Goldilocks approach to tapering — a series of “small enough” reductions (for some individuals these may be in the microgram range of 0.001mg, but for others the reductions may be in the range of 0.01mg, 0.1mg or even larger) followed by a hold to give their bodies time to fully process the reductions.

 

I admire the way you have handled your taper and are now helping others with theirs. You are an example and inspiration to us all!

 

Libertas

[[Mo...]]

Yes, I have seen others do that as well with success and did contemplate it but what I was doing worked....so I figured I would just let it be and stick with it.  Thanks for your support Libertas.  I know you have helped many people on this site - bless you for that! I hope you are doing well in your taper!!

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Thank you so much mof7b, your info provides good insight

Was wondering about your transition to all liquid,

Did you transition each dose and hold a month for each one?

Also when you did your first .5 with liquid did u hold it a while before reducing it?

Just curious where are you now with your remaining doses and when do u think you’ll jump

Thanks again for all the valuable info

[[Mo...]]

Joeb,

When I got from 6.5mg to 6mg, I transitioned 1mg of my evening dose to liquid (the other 1mg pill) and the other two doses stayed completely as 2mg of pill.  When looking back at my notes, it appears I tapered down my night dose for .5mg.  Then I decided at around 5.5mg to swap out 1mg to liquid in my afternoon dose.  Then at 5.2 mg, I swapped out 1mg to liquid in my morning dose.  (Just as a side note, at this point, I evened everything out with my doses and step-wised tapered like I explained earlier).  This had me at 3mg of pill (morning, afternoon, night) and 2.2mg of liquid.  At some point, I transitioned my whole night-time dose to liquid.  I can't remember how long I took to change over the others and again, at 3mg, I was on full liquid.  I had a good reaction to the previous changes.  I feel I absorb the liquid prescription better.  I've heard some say the same thing, while others don't have good luck with it.  It's all so variable.  I'm highly sensitive to generic medication changes and didn't do well with the liquid homemade variations with Klonopin.  Thus, I was pleasantly surprised and relieved.  It doesn't really appear that I held my dose when doing the switch like I thought. 

 

I think a good option for you would be to try the .5mg, see how you do and then if it's fine, transfer over another 1mg a month later.  If still good 2-3 weeks after, switch out another until finally you are on all liquid.  If you tolerate it well, this will be the easiest thing for you.  One piece of advice I got from another buddy who had success was to not eat or drink anything for 30 minutes afterward taking the liquid.  I kind of wonder if this helped the liquid medication to absorb through my tissues, etc? 

 

Some other things....I also didn't (and still don't) eat charcoaled grilled meat, MSG (under various names), slow cooked meals or a lot of leftovers.  The charcoaled meat, I think might be related to a correlation with activated charcoal, which will flush medications out of your system.  The MSG because it can be excitatory and the others because of histamine.

 

Sorry if all this is overkill.

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It’s not overkill, very good info for me to think about thank you sooo much

So where are you in your taper now, hope your are doing well, is it really hard at that level?

I see .3 u are so low when are you thinking of jumping

[[Mo...]]

No problem, Joeb.  I'm at .21mg today.  Based on what I mapped out, I should be off in a month-ish.  There won't be "jumping" for me, haha.  A lot of people call it "walking off" when you microtaper all the way to 0.  I'm doing pretty decent,  actually.  I'm still not symptom free but things are 500X better than they were and I am extremely grateful for what my life is right now.  I still have anxiety that I'm trying to work through but that was there before the benzos.     

[[Ni...]]

I've seen people do fine on this - it's all going to depend on how sensitized you are.  She should be open to a patient-led taper as those are the ones with the most success.  Hope you are doing well, Nikitis!

Hey Momof7babes sorry for the late reply but thanks for the support and info! I'm on 4 mg V in the morning now and 3 mg V in the evening, I've been noticing I'm having a lot of short and long term memory loss for the past few weeks. Is this normal? I also was on 2 mg of risperidone and stupidly did a rapid taper 2 months ago after having been on it since late 2019 (4 mg till February 2020 then 3 mg since July 2021) tapering 1 mg every 2 weeks then at 1 mg .5 mg every 2 weeks then jumped. Had terrible withdrawal and reinstated stupidly on 2 mg of risperidone then went to half a pill of 2 mg which is 1 mg, and been on that and became stable on that and had the memory issues since then I recall.

[[Mo...]]

Hi Nikitis,

Valium definitely gave me memory loss and recall issues.  I felt very "slow".  I don't know much about risperidone but I'm not surprised about the terrible withdrawal based on my past experience with antidepressant withdrawal.  Sorry for what you are going through!

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No problem, Joeb.  I'm at .21mg today.  Based on what I mapped out, I should be off in a month-ish.  There won't be "jumping" for me, haha.  A lot of people call it "walking off" when you microtaper all the way to 0.  I'm doing pretty decent,  actually.  I'm still not symptom free but things are 500X better than they were and I am extremely grateful for what my life is right now.  I still have anxiety that I'm trying to work through but that was there before the benzos.   

 

Thank you Mof7b, sorry for so many questions, unfortunately my liquid came from an online pharmacy which doesn't supply adapter caps or syringes. What type of adapter cap are you using that works, there are so many out there, can you provide the type and link if possible? Does it specify a bottle size?

My bottle opening is 3/4 inch

[[Mo...]]

Hi Joeb,

 

I like the Apothecary Brand on Amazon - they fit the BD syringes nicely that I posted a link to.  Sounds like you may need a small but measure in mm just in case.  My bottles that are 20mm use this one:

 

Small Adapter Cap - 22mm

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XKB667M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

 

They make medium too in case you ever need them.  Also, just as a helpful tint - if you get some clear scotch tape and wrap your syringe markings with it, it will make your syringes last much longer. 

[[...]]

Hi Joeb,

 

I like the Apothecary Brand on Amazon - they fit the BD syringes nicely that I posted a link to.  Sounds like you may need a small but measure in mm just in case.  My bottles that are 20mm use this one:

 

Small Adapter Cap - 22mm

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XKB667M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Thank you, just wondering when did you switch from tapering .1 to .01 just thinking about where I should start

 

They make medium too in case you ever need them.  Also, just as a helpful tint - if you get some clear scotch tape and wrap your syringe markings with it, it will make your syringes last much longer.

thank you much, just wondering when did u switch from tapering .1 to .01? Sorry again bout so many questions

[[Mo...]]

My average daily reduction tapering rate since I switched to Valium has only been .01mg per day.  I taper that amount for about 10 days and then hold for 4 days right now. 

[[...]]

Mof7B, I hope you dont think I'm a pain asking all these questions, but i have another one pls.

Libertas on a prior posting to your said that the BD 309659 syringe with .01 graduations was a good syringe. I'm wondering if its easier or harder to read that the 305217 that has only .02 graduations. Also would it fit the adapter cap you mentioned.

Hard to tell from the amazon photot but sometimes too many lines is harder than less.

I'm getting ready to order on Amazon, what you think?

[[Li...]]

Joeb: Rest assured you are not alone in having concerns about reading the graduation lines on 1mL syringes.  Here’s what I use:

 

YOCTOSUN LED Head Magnifier, Rechargeable Hands Free Headband Magnifying Glass with 2 Led, Professional Jeweler's Loupe Light Bracket and Headband are Interchangeable

 

URL:

[nobbc]https://www.amazon.com/YOCTOSUN-Rechargeable-Magnifying-Professional-Interchangeable/dp/B07T4KPYN2[/nobbc]

 

I look like a mad scientist but I don’t care because it works.

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Lol Libertas, you have a great sense of humor.

so what do you think between the 2 syringes, before i spend the money

[[Li...]]

Hello again, Joeb. When I was first researching syringes, quality/quality control was the top item on my list of things to look for in a manufacturer.  The two manufacturers that ranked highest in that regard were BD and Medisca (I was particularly impressed that Medisca syringes were ISO certified).

 

I personally prefer 1mL syringes with graduations every 0.01mL because I am tapering clonazepam which is much more potent than diazepam. However, having said that, I also used 10mL syringes with graduations every 0.02mL (I just eye-balled it when I needed to measure an in-between dose).

[[Mo...]]

Hi Joeb,

The other BD syringes do not fit the adapters that I used as I have some of them also.  I personally have no issues with estimating the in-between days because of the long half life of Valium.  I don't have any problems reading the .02ml lines with just my plain eyes.  I do agree Libertas, that is a funny thing but what I've learned in this is you do what you gotta do.  Ha!

[[...]]

Hi Joeb,

The other BD syringes do not fit the adapters that I used as I have some of them also.  I personally have no issues with estimating the in-between days because of the long half life of Valium.  I don't have any problems reading the .02ml lines with just my plain eyes.  I do agree Libertas, that is a funny thing but what I've learned in this is you do what you gotta do.  Ha!

 

Hi Mof7Bs, Just to be sure, your saying the BD 309659 syringe with .01 graduations doesnt fit?

[[Mo...]]

It's not wide enough - it will go in but not snugly and medicine comes out.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong but with the ones I sent the link to, the tip goes in nice and snug. 

[[...]]

Thanks for the quick reply, thats a bummer, I wanted to try it out and see if those graduations were easier to see.

I probably just go with the plugs and syringes that you recommended, it may be easier to see between the lines than a very small line in between.

[[...]]

It's not wide enough - it will go in but not snugly and medicine comes out.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong but with the ones I sent the link to, the tip goes in nice and snug.

Hey Mof7B,

What times of day do you do your 3 doses? Still trying to figure out my game plan