Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[et...]]

Rock welcome home!

 

CC - you should feel at least 80/20 before tapering at all for about a week,

etown

[[...]]

Hi CC

Congratulations on making it to .65! IMO, the best way to do this last little bit is to first minimize symptoms as much as possible and then start your MT very conservatively. It sounds like you will need a good long hold until you get to the place where your symptoms are no longer improving and you are feeling "up to it" psychologically. I would then start tapering at something like .0025/day and if you do well with this cut rate then try .005/day, etc.  Maybe you can make up to a cut rate of .01/day. Don't hesitate to throw in some holds or drop your cut rate back down if necessary. It's always best to cut back on your taper rate or hold at the first sign of problems and never ever try to tough things out. I believe that in the long run a taper is best done and healing occurs faster when you maintain just a few easily manageable symptoms on your way down.

Bart

[[Wo...]]

I waited about a month to stabilize after my crossover. Don't rush it, put the pain behind you until you have the confidence to move forward, then proceed SLOWLY.

[[Co...]]

etown, Bart and workinit,

 

I am up and running at 6 am. A bit shaky but not awful. Could not sleep anymore secondary to a headache that is now gone. No nausea.

I am going to hold at least until the new year and think that the taper schedule you wrote is a good idea Bart. What is that old saying? 'You never know how good it is to feel good until you don't.'

[[jj...]]

Hello all. I'm looking to start a slow taper and I want to get this right as I've already messed up twice trying to get off of .05mg of clonazepam. First time was cold turkey, which lasted two weeks before I realized that things were getting progressively worse, not better. The second attempt was on Sunday when I tried to quarter my doses (per my MD's suggestion) and tried to taper with 3/4th of .05mg. By Wednesday I was back in the MD office in tears with multiple symptoms. Luckily, I had looked at the Ashton manual by then and came armed with a proposal for a slower taper, switching over to diazepam. I probably should also say that even though I went back on the Clonezpam after my first failed attempt, I never quite felt right and the withdrawal symptoms gradually got worse over time. After many google searches that looked like "signs of MS" and "symptoms of parkinson's" I finally realized that I must have slipped back into a tolerance withdrawal. As for now, my MD prescribed 2mg of diazepam in the AM to go along with my .05 mg at night. So far I haven't noticed much difference in the withdrawal symptoms, but it's only been a day so hopefully things will get at least tolerable. Then the idea is to taper by 1mg every two weeks if possible, switching over to 10mg of diazepam when I'm done with the 2mg of diazepam in the AM.

 

Like I said, I want to make sure I get this right this time so that I don't continue to make things worse for myself. Looking around at this site, it looks like people are actually tapering slower than in the Ashton manual and there was suggestion by Deborah that I do a slow switch over to diazepam from the clonazepam, but I'm not sure what that would look like. Clonazepam is suppose to have a longer half life, so I didn't think that it would be a problem to just switch the doses, but I've been wrong about everything else so far when it comes to this, so maybe that's not true. Does anyone have any ideas?

[[mr...]]

Hi JJ,

You are on the right track.

Going slow is the key to a successful recovery.

It looks like .5mg clonazepam is equivalent to 10mg valium.

http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

 

It will take time for the valium to build up in your blood stream for you to notice.

It took a week for my mom's levels to build up, but she went from 1.5 mg lorazepam to 6mg valium.

This was a big drop.

 

 

Maybe someone on here can direct you to what worked for them.

 

 

[[Wo...]]

Hi all,

 

First I want to wish you all happy holidays, I sure hope the new year brings better health for all of us.

 

I also wanted to ask, for those who are experiencing digestive issues (I think this is my first symptom) - what brings relief for you?

 

Hopefully this isn't TMI - I'm having constipation for a few days and then a rather extensive evacuation one happy morning, usually painful. Digestive tract feels raw and I can tell that I have unpleasant breath.

 

Thanks,

 

Workin

[[or...]]

Hi workin:

 

I have had gi problems for quite a while. I used to have overwhelming nausea but that has calmed down. Now I just feel vaguely unwell, but I still have specific issues.

 

For constipation, I recommend magnesium oxide. I capsule at night. It is poorly absorbed by the body (if you want a magnesium that is absorbed, try magnesium glycinate which does not have the laxative effect). I find this to be a kinder laxative than harsh OTC choices. Of course lots of water and fiber, plus a few prunes in your cereal will help things along too. I think water and fiber are the keys to not getting constipated.

 

I take a probiotic. Does it help? I don't know. But it can't hurt.

 

And THIS may be tmi but I am plagued by intestinal gas that actually pains me at night, so I have started taking a digestive enzyme -- Beano, if you can believe it. It actually helps. Turns out there are a lot more things that Beano helps than beans.

 

It seems my gut is very sensitive to just about everything. I don't know if this is your problem but it's mine. I find that if I can eat a meal WITHOUT gi distress, it's a rarity.

 

Hope the above has helped you. Just my experiences. Be well.

 

Okatz

[[et...]]

JJ if you have the Ashton Manual cross over as per her suggestions nd you will be fine. I am tapering daily using a jewelers scales and a metal nail file and it is working really good for me.Once you cross over you may want to hold for a week or so and then get it going. Ashton was way too fast for me. If I did it again I would daily taper all the way down. If you need more info on the scales I have posted different places and would be happy to help. Stick with this thread as there is very little drama and serious people who want to lessen symptoms and live life while tapering.

 

Workin - I use probiotics too, 2 peppermint oil caps 1/2 hour before food, ginger caps before food or as needed for nausea, digestive enzymes with meals and psyllium with lots of water to normalize bowel function. Have do drink a few glasses of water with psyllium or it will stiffen things up. Nice soft fiber so best in my books and cheap. Not Metamucil go to a health food store and buy coarse psyllium.

etown

[[jj...]]

Thanks for the suggestion etown. I'm not sure what a daily taper is, I'm still very much I newbie but I do want to go as gradually as possible so I have a shot at holding onto my job, which I just got 5 months ago and also happens to be the first job that I love after 25 years in the work force. Can you link me to more info?

[[et...]]

JJ sure thing have a few things to do and will get some info to you soon

etown

[[Di...]]

Hi JJ

 

Just while Etown is getting back to you, I thought I would just jump in the give you are few options as to how you can do a daily taper.

 

Daily tapering just basically means taking whatever you would normally cut every couple of weeks or so and splitting that amount into much smaller amounts and reducing that tiny amount every day. Most people seem to find that this is a much gentler way of reducing your dose, and if you get that small daily amount right you should be able to get by with fairly minimal symptoms.

 

You can do this a few different ways, the main ones being taking part of your dose in liquid form or using a jewellers scale to weigh your tablets so you can cut tiny amounts off them every day.

 

Etown is the expert with using the jewellers scales, so I'll let him explain that method to you.

 

I use a liquid reduction method and have a link in my signature below that gives you an example of how to do it.

 

Another regular on this thread, Eliz, also has her method in her signature too, but I think she's still vacationng at the moment so I'll give you a link to her method. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97043.0

 

As you can see, there are quite a few different ways of doing this. There is no right or wrong way. They all give the desired result of getting to zero. It's just a case of finding the method that you personally think is the easiest to understand and manage.

[[jj...]]

Thanks Diaz-Pam, I'll check out the video. I'm on the road from time to time with my job staying in hotels, so I may have to go the other route as that might be a little more practical. Of course at this point I don't know how practical it will be in general to hold onto this particular job and do the taper but I'm sure it's been done.

 

Out of curiosity, has anyone tried acupuncture and Chinese medicine as adjunct therapy? I have my first session in a couple of weeks. I'm not worried about the needles but I feel a little leery about taking any herbs as even my multivitamin makes my symptoms flare up. 

[[et...]]

JJ here is a link to my working thread for those who work. You will find this helpful.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66302.msg1208917#msg1

 

Here is my taper method

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=92221.msg1182191#msg

 

Dp's explanation of the daily taper is very good as is her support. she's a good one to listen to too!

 

etown

[[Di...]]

Those links aren't videos. They are just links to other threads on BB.

 

If you are on the road a lot, the best methods for you would be any anything that doesn't involve milk as the agent for creating a solution, but that still leaves you with a lot of options. You can get liquid valium/diazepam prescribed by your doctor which doesn't need refrigeration. You can get Ora-Sweet and Ora-Plus from a pharmacist (this is covered in Eliz's method) and there is Etown's method of using a jewellers scale.

 

All daily reduction methods sound a little confusing at first, but if you just take one step at a time, in no time at all you will find it very easy to do. I haven't come across anyone yet who hasn't mastered it very quickly.

 

Regarding your question about Chinese therapy etc, you might want to check out the Alternative Therapies section for more information in that. I do know there is a post about acupuncture fairly close to the top in that section. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=110.0

 

I personally don't have a very high opinion about herbs etc as treatment for various things, but that's only because of my own personal experiences with a naturopathic treatment for a completely different issue, but it was that treatment that got me hooked on valium in the first place.

[[dr...]]

Jrusk,

 

I occasionally get acupuncture. It helps with the muscle tension but not too much else. I find it relaxing so that is a big benefit too. I'll keep it short as I don't want stray from the main thread. Good luck

 

Drew

 

[[Di...]]

Oh goody Etown. I thought I had seen a link to your method somewhere, but I couldn't find it. I'll have to keep that link, so I can direct people to both yours and Eliz's. Maybe you could put it in your signature.

[[Sm...]]

Jrusk.. When I have the monies I get acupuncture. It is good for relaxation. I tried some chinese medicine and it worked great but I got bad withdrawal in-between it. They were so bad they were the final straw that made me updose significantly from the concussion. The tricky thing with things like that is knowing half lives etc. Acupuncture however is pretty safe.

 

CC: aint that the truth. You forget how nice it is to be healthy until you lose it. And you can begin to forget how much you hate benzo withdrawal till it hits you again. I agree with what the others said about a big long hold, or small updose, and being symptom free before getting the microtapering under way in a very slow way. You are so close now

[[jj...]]

Etown, could you mind reposting the link to the working support thread. The links you posted were both to the tapering. All of they advise for the tapers are great. I'm still having some benzo wd brain fog, but I think between my wife and I, we should be able to figure it out.

 

My apologizes for sidetracking the thread w/ the questions about acupuncture. Should have just searched for an appropriate thread. I'm still figuring out how to navigate around this website!

[[Di...]]

Etown, could you mind reposting the link to the working support thread. The links you posted were both to the tapering. All of they advise for the tapers are great. I'm still having some benzo wd brain fog, but I think between my wife and I, we should be able to figure it out.

 

My apologizes for sidetracking the thread w/ the questions about acupuncture. Should have just searched for an appropriate thread. I'm still figuring out how to navigate around this website!

 

In case Etown's not around at the moment, here is the link the working thread. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66302.0

 

No need to apologise about anything. We totally understand that it takes time to find your way around. Just ask any questions you like here and we can either answer them or direct you to an appropriate thread.

[[et...]]

JJ I fixed my working thread post. hope to see you over there. don't worry about asking anything on this thread. You have by luck hit the threads that are directly oriented to you and your immediate issue. I find it tiring and sometimes downright depressing travelling all around this site. But I kinda did at first then i stick mainly to this thread and the working thread. all the brain power I need and less drama.

etown

[[ag...]]

I have been on Valium for 15 years. I started a Valium taper from 17.5 mg on Oct 31. I have only 5mg tabs so I cut each tab in half, 2.5 mgs. I went down to 12.5 mg on Dec 9 and got really sick on Dec 14. (about 1.3 months) I went to an addiction med. specialist and she told me that I should have only tapered by .5mg per month, she recommended that I go back up to 15mg. I did that 2 days ago and am still not functional. I am reluctant to go back to 17.5mg yet I need to be functional.  I would like to stabilize and then try a very slow taper at .5mg like recommended.  Does anyone have experience with this type of going back to original dosage and then tapering much slower?

[[Wo...]]

I have been on Valium for 15 years. I started a Valium taper from 17.5 mg on Oct 31. I have only 5mg tabs so I cut each tab in half, 2.5 mgs. I went down to 12.5 mg on Dec 9 and got really sick on Dec 14. (about 1.3 months) I went to an addiction med. specialist and she told me that I should have only tapered by .5mg per month, she recommended that I go back up to 15mg. I did that 2 days ago and am still not functional. I am reluctant to go back to 17.5mg yet I need to be functional.  I would like to stabilize and then try a very slow taper at .5mg like recommended.  Does anyone have experience with this type of going back to original dosage and then tapering much slower?

 

Hi agape,

Many people have gone back up to their original dose to stabilize and taper more slowly, please don't be too hard on yourself for needing to do this.

We say here "slow and steady wins the race", the point is to taper and remain functional, NOT to get off an soon as possible. That may just land you in the hospital and cost you a lot more than just money.

Hugs,

Workin

[[et...]]

I agree with workin....do what you have to do a good hold and get back at it with help from us.

etown

[[Sm...]]

Hi Agape

 

You can see from my signature I went from my too-fast-cut-point back up to my original dose. I dont regret it one bit. I have a longer time to go but I can do this if I don't have horrible withdrawal side effects. Many people taper too fast only to discover the nature of their dependence and then go back up partly of fully to successfully taper back down.

 

Tapering can be done without dreadful side effects. I recommend reading the beginnings of this thread and see the valium taperers here are going and how they do it. Most are going pretty well because of the method and approach they adopt.

There may be a time for instance when even 0.5mg a month is too much. But that is only down at lower doses. You addiction specialist sounds like a sensible go slow type.

 

As for where you are now. You could wait a few more days to see if this new higher dose builds up enough to cease the symptoms. If they are still around in a week or two - or until you are over it - you could go back to your original dose like many have done before you.

 

Good luck and Peace

Smiff