Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[mr...]]

Tapering doesn't eliminate all symptoms.

It just makes it manageable.

Years ago, my mom tried buspar and it gave her tinnitus, so I would think there could be side effects to it.

My mom was dosing just once per day and wanted to split the dose to twice per day.

She felt she couldn't make it to the next day for a dose.

After splitting the doses, it took a few days or so for her to stabilize again.

She started splitting her dose at 1.8mg.

 

As far as anxiety, the only thing that helped my mom was niacinamide, but some people have symptoms rev up with B vitamins.

[[Sm...]]

Hey Tess

 

It is natural to be over thinking things where you are at now.

 

The answer is you may make things worse in the short term with changing doses time around. But it wont be something that can't be quickly turned around. Valium is pretty forgiving with playing around because of its long half life.

 

My opinion though is this: you don't necessarily need anything for anxiety because there is a good chance the anxiety is withdrawal symptoms. Ashton says anxiety is the most common and long term withdrawal symptom. When I taper too fast my chief symptom is anxiety. I have no anxiety at the moment because I am doing a symptoms based taper. If I started feeling any anxiety I'd back off, hold and/or slow down or even updose. So in my opinion (and I'm not qualified in anyway. I only know my experience) I suggest updosing to where you aren't suffering and then come back down much slower - so slow your anxiety doesn't turn up barely and when it does hold and/or slow down even more - with a micro-taper.

 

If your anxiety persists despite this buspar may be a good option. It is hard to say. Admittedly I may not be free of anxiety without the help of an SSRI so extra drugs can be helpful with benzo withdrawal. A lot of people use remeron and trazadone. But if I taper too fast I get anxiety despite the SSRI so undoubtedly the most helpful thing is to not be in a such bad withdrawal that you feel it that badly.

 

Fish oil is supposedly good for anxiety so is B6 and B12 (supposedly). These things are very individual though and hard to guage. I found B vitamins revved me except for when in combination with cal/mag/C. Then it relaxed me.. weird.. but then vitamins are like that. Their interplay is so complicated and individual no-one really knows for sure what will happen so there is a lot of playing around (if you're willing)

 

Anyway good luck and let us know how you get on

Smiff

[[or...]]

Tess, you might also try Vistaril for anxiety. It worked for me -- only too well. It made me very sleepy. But maybe that is just what you need, if you are worried about sleep.

 

And IMO anxiety is part of this whole withdrawal. Of course we're anxious! But is your anxiety disabling? I'm anxious by fits and starts, but can talk myself out of it. It's situational. I'm not saying yours is, but is there any way you can use self-talk to help yourself? I would hate to see you get stuck at a particular dose because of anxiety. I am trying to think of other things that might help you besides Vistaril. I will ask my psych doc who prescribed Vistaril. It seems to me that she prescribed something else as well but I can't remember what right now. It was a while ago. I will get back to you on it when I see her.

 

Hope this has helped you.

 

Okatz

[[...]]

Hi tess

I agree with Smiff and okats about your dosing and holding. I've never had anxiety myself so I can't speak to how to manage it.

[[...]]

Hi Buddies

I am down to 3.5 mg V have a hard time waking up in the morning most days. It takes me half a day to wake up and feel groggy all day sometimes. I thought people got used to V sedating effect but I have been on it and tapering 7 months and still feel  sedated. I take the full dosage at night. I need some input on this please.

[[mr...]]

Hi D21,

My mom started out on only 6mg v and it was very sedating.

However, she was dosing 3 times per day.

After dropping below 2mg and splitting dose to 2x's per day, her sedating effects started to reduce a little.

Now, she is at 1mg per day, split 2x's per day and she doesn't seem sedated anymore.

She is getting some of her old mind back.

[[or...]]

D21 I am surprised that such a low dose sedates you for morning activities. All I can suggest is that you take the dose a little earlier in the evening (not sure if this would work) or maybe splitting your dose, which would be a pain.

 

When I was up at 10 mg I was plenty sedated but the sedation wore off as I dropped y dose. However, everyone's different.

 

How long have you been on the 3.5 mg dosage?

 

Okatz

[[jj...]]

I am wondering if anyone could explain tolerance withdrawal for me a little better. I went c/t off of klonopin in late September for two weeks and had severe w/d sx. I had had no w/d before then. I went back on the second week in October and felt probably about 90% better with some passing anxiety and derealization. About a week after that I felt fine for about a week, then started feeling dizzy and started having panic attacks. Following that, slowly more significant sx started coming back, the dizziness got worse. more anxiety and so on. Since I was on the same dose that I started with does that mean that I have tolerance w/d or is it just the ongoing effects of going c/t? And I guess the next question is, does it matter? My MD added 2mg of diazepam on Thursday and it does seem to have helped a little.

[[dr...]]

I forgot my evening dose last night.  Question-since I am micro tapering should I take it so it will all balance out several days from now?

[[or...]]

Yikes! That's my dread, too, Drew. OK, let's think about this. eliz once told me that a one-time updose will not adversely affect you. So, then, taking your missed dose pretty soon (today) would register on your brain as a one-time updose and you would probably be OK. Given the forgiving nature of valium i.e. in a few days or even tomorrow it will all sort itself out, I would think you would be OK. That's what I intend to do if I miss a dose . . . unless one f the folks on this forum who knows more tells me it would not be a good idea.

 

I'm by no means an expert, Drew, but that's what I would do.

 

Okatz

[[...]]

I forgot my evening dose last night.  Question-since I am micro tapering should I take it so it will all balance out several days from now?

 

Always better to replace the missing benzo!!

 

I'd take the dose asap and continue on.  Everything will be fine.

[[...]]

Okatz

u got it take a missed dose as soon as you realize it and keep on truckin from there

[[dr...]]

Thanks Okatz and SG.  I ended up taking it because I figure I feel okay and I don't want to get all disjointed on my micro cuts. I don't consider it an updose because it was within twelve hours.  It's a good sign that I didn't feel bad that I was counting the hours to the dose.

[[bu...]]

I am wondering if anyone could explain tolerance withdrawal for me a little better. I went c/t off of klonopin in late September for two weeks and had severe w/d sx. I had had no w/d before then. I went back on the second week in October and felt probably about 90% better with some passing anxiety and derealization. About a week after that I felt fine for about a week, then started feeling dizzy and started having panic attacks. Following that, slowly more significant sx started coming back, the dizziness got worse. more anxiety and so on. Since I was on the same dose that I started with does that mean that I have tolerance w/d or is it just the ongoing effects of going c/t? And I guess the next question is, does it matter? My MD added 2mg of diazepam on Thursday and it does seem to have helped a little.

 

That's just plain ol' withdrawal!  Tolerance withdrawal means you begin to experience WD sxs even though you haven't reduced your dosage.  (Colin calls it relative withdrawal)

[[bu...]]

Hi Buddies

I am down to 3.5 mg V have a hard time waking up in the morning most days. It takes me half a day to wake up and feel groggy all day sometimes. I thought people got used to V sedating effect but I have been on it and tapering 7 months and still feel  sedated. I take the full dosage at night. I need some input on this please.

 

That's actually unusual.  the hypnotic (sleep) effect is typically the first benzo effect you become tolerant to.  For me, I lost the sleep effect after about 10  days.

[[jj...]]

Thanks builder, that's a relief to know.

 

I'm planning on switching over to diazepam next MD visit, and am trying to decide whether just to go all in at 10mg or split the dose at 5 mg V, .25 K for two weeks before taking the plunge. I don't want to put myself in a hole, knowing that some people have problems w/ the c/o, but I just hate this drug so much I can't wait to get off if it.

[[bu...]]

Thanks builder, that's a relief to know.

 

I'm planning on switching over to diazepam next MD visit, and am trying to decide whether just to go all in at 10mg or split the dose at 5 mg V, .25 K for two weeks before taking the plunge. I don't want to put myself in a hole, knowing that some people have problems w/ the c/o, but I just hate this drug so much I can't wait to get off if it.

 

Valium has to build up to become effective.  Abruptly switching from a faster acting benzo to valium is not a good idea.

 

You might want to check out Dr. Ashton's recommendations.

[[jj...]]

This is where I get a little confused, as Ashton does not have a w/d schedule for .5 klonopin, she just refers to table 3 where you get a c/o from .5 mg k to 10 mg v. How have other people done this? Right now I'm taking .5 k in the PM and 2mg v in the AM.

[[Sm...]]

I made it back to 7mg! Hoorraayy!! Hopefully a little less backtracking then the last month. But it show a symptoms based taper can work cause last time I was here I was not going good on the anxiety pounding heart horribleness front. Admittedly concussion was making things worse but still.. I'm here now again symptom free

Onwards tortoise!!

[[mr...]]

I made it back to 7mg! Hoorraayy!! Hopefully a little less backtracking then the last month. But it show a symptoms based taper can work cause last time I was here I was not going good on the anxiety pounding heart horribleness front. Admittedly concussion was making things worse but still.. I'm here now again symptom free

Onwards tortoise!!

That's great smiff.

Perhaps this will help others that haven't been able to stabilize on their current dose by updosing for a while and retapering.

 

[[or...]]

jj -- take a look at Ashton's manual Chapter II, Schedule 6. You can substitute your own dosage of K for her dosage . . . likewise of valium . . . just keep the percentages the same.

 

That's what I did for Ativan when I crossed from Ativan to valium. The figures she gives in her table for Ativan were not exactly my figures, but I just worked it out using percentages.

 

You can do the same and set up a schedule for yourself.

 

Okatz

 

 

[[...]]

Jj

Ocatz is right.

I switched from K to V following Ashtons recommendation that you should be 20 times the dose of k so when I switched over, .375 K. Equalled 7.5 V.

[[Sm...]]

I made it back to 7mg! Hoorraayy!! Hopefully a little less backtracking then the last month. But it show a symptoms based taper can work cause last time I was here I was not going good on the anxiety pounding heart horribleness front. Admittedly concussion was making things worse but still.. I'm here now again symptom free

Onwards tortoise!!

That's great smiff.

Perhaps this will help others that haven't been able to stabilize on their current dose by updosing for a while and retapering.

 

I hope so. People really don't have to suffer. I hate to see them suffer. Time is the worst thing you lose but it isn't horrible time spent when you are symptom free or close to it.

 

Merry Christmas my loved and cherished BBs. You have made my taper possible and I have quality of life thanks to your knowledge and caring. In times of hardship great friendships are born and I consider you all remarkable people and friends.

May you have a good christmas. I know I will be enjoying every bit of my 3 year old's christmas wonder

[[jj...]]

I see, so I start out by splitting my dose into AM/Afternoon/PM and then start reducing from there? Since I won't be able to effectively split the tablets into thirds I guess I will have to start using a liquid preparation. Is that correct?

[[...]]

Hi D21,

My mom started out on only 6mg v and it was very sedating.

However, she was dosing 3 times per day.

After dropping below 2mg and splitting dose to 2x's per day, her sedating effects started to reduce a little.

Now, she is at 1mg per day, split 2x's per day and she doesn't seem sedated anymore.

She is getting some of her old mind back.

 

Thank you so much for your response, makes me feel better.I hope your mom is doing well. Happy Holidays!