Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Sm...]]

I agree with Etown except you may have to updose a little on the V when you reach that last bit of K. A lot of people find they have to updose a little on the crossover.

 

As for the depression: Valium in itself isn't overly associated with depression though it doesn't exactly make the world a bright shiny place. Benzo withdrawal and obviously SSRI withdrawal are causes of depression. If you don't want to go down the anti depressant route again but are willing to try supplements I've found fish oil, curcumin and pepperine useful for their anti-depressant qualities (pepperine just really enhances absorbtion of curcumin and many other meds/supplements possibly including benzos). Creatine has a lot of promise on the anti-depressant front and might be particularly useful for you as a man because it does stimulate testosterone which is a mood lifter. It made my withdrawal symptoms a little worse though - it hasn't for many others - but still may not be worth playing with whilst you are stabilising. Fish oil in particular however is pretty well tolerated. Keep in mind though I'm still on an SSRI so these could just be boosting it or potentially not doing much.

 

In any case

Good luck and peace

Smiff

[[Sm...]]

Hey D2

 

Yes unfortunately for 95% of people on this forum the Ashton manual tables of 1mg Valium equivalent every 2-4 weeks is too much. Particularly at lower doses.

It is best to think of these things in terms of percentages - cut of 10-5% every 2-3 weeks. So what works at 15mgs really doesn't work at 5mgs sadly.

 

On the first page of this thread I've written some thoughts and put some tables up that I use based on Diazepam's method of liquid microtapering. I recommend you look at her post - and the link - and maybe read the first couple of pages to see how people are going and how they are doing it.

 

Things will settle down soon D2. Those last few cuts were pretty big on the percentage front, and most people here would be suffering, so don't feel you are abnormal feeling them this bad.

You are on the right track now: A new track for those tricky low doses

 

Good luck and Peace

Smiff

[[Sm...]]

Hi all

 

So the measuring cylinder arrived. And my syringe measurements varied from 9mls-6mls off. I don't know why. In any case I want to use the measuring cylinder from now.

 

Sooo just so I'm straight: if I put extra water in my mix - by going up to the 99ml mark on the cylinder - and keep cutting I am right in thinking I will be cutting slightly less Valium overall then I have been and possibly have a very slight updose yes?

 

Thank you!!!

[[Wo...]]

Hi everyone! My, how things can change when I don't check in often enough, lol. This thread has moved, I see, which coincides nicely with my own "real life" move. Both moves seem to be very good "reorganizational" steps. I have been AWOL a bit while packing up my house. The movers are here right NOW loading a moving van of furniture to be taken to storage. Next week, between ice storms, I do the final move to my new home in another state.

 

Recapping for newcomers:  a mere 6 months ago, I was near death, seriously.  Following a lung infection last fall, I was diagnosed with diastolic heart disfunction in December and was prescribed Ativan in late January. I took only .5 mg once a day in the evening to quell what we later learned was high cortisol levels in the evening. From January to March I developed horrible symptoms and central nervous system failures including oxygen desaturation and had to carry supplemental oxygen with me everywhere. I lost weight down to 77 pounds with a body mass index of 14. I was seen by many specialists, treated at multiple specialty clinics including the Mayo Clinic, and was hospitalized twice for grueling rounds of diagnostic tests. The last hospital released me without pinpointing a cause but clearly expected me to not survive at my weight and with my terrible symptoms and horrible pain. No one could figure out my rapidly failing health.

 

Returning home, I finally googled "Ativan", which lead to "benzodiazepine", which lead to Benzo Buddies, thank heavens!!!  As I read info here at BB, I finally came to realize that the symptoms that were killing me were actually due to the Ativan 1xday.  By that time I had reduced to .25 mg once a day without having a clue that cutting my dose in half could cause so many problems.

 

With the help of the angels here at BB and a physician who was very agreeable, I did a rapid crossover to Valium which GREATLY relieved my CNS instability and I was able to quit using the supplemental oxygen tank. Practically rabid to get off the benzos, I then reduced from 5 mg to 2.12 mg at warp speed, with some crazy dosing mistakes thrown in along the way. At 2.12 I found myself in the ER. Eventually updosing back to 3 mg and with a LOT of help from Etown, Diaz-Pam, Bart, Braban, and others who shared freely of their knowledge and experience, I learned to slow down and do a nice daily micro taper.

 

For those finding this thread for the first time, I very highly recommend trying the daily micro taper. It removed so many of my worst symptoms it's almost unbelievable. My gastro issues are 80-90% better and I've gained back weight and am now blessedly out of the "cardiac arrest danger zone" of being severely underweight. I sleep well now, am exercising again, and feel that my CNS is healing at the rate of my withdrawal. This week, while packing my house all day every day to move, I was able to continue tapering at .01 a day until I hit 2.64 mg and some of my old symptoms increased.  I simply held my dose for 2 days, symptoms resolved, and I will continued with my taper starting tonight, even though we drive a moving van a long distance tomorrow, something I could never have dreamed of a few months ago when I was bedridden and in severe pain.

 

Now I have the comfort of knowing that if symptoms arise again, all I have to do is hold another night or so and all is well once more. No more being in too deep a hole to function or to dig my way out. Even on my "bad" days, I am still functional. I finally believe I WILL recover and have a fulfilling life ahead.  And this from a person who was so ill a few months ago that I was advised to put my personal, financial, and legal affairs in order. (And I did).

 

Welcome to this thread. It is a lifesaver!  As Eliz pointed out, there are many great folks here with a wealth of knowledge and experience, and they are very generous with support and sharing. I would not be here today to write this if not for these great folks and for Danni, who started this thread many moons ago with the desire to help others. Thank you all from the depths of my heart.

 

Here's to good healing and a bright future for us all!    ~OneLove 

 

So happy to hear all of your great news OneLove! I've been wondering about you!

[[Di...]]

Enjoy the cut rates of .03 and .025 as long as you can ladies.

 

I am currently at .009 and hoping for it to last until after the holidays.  Slowing down sucks out loud but at least right now other than on and off sleep difficulties, I am (shhhhh or the benzo beast will hear) relatively symptom free.  And that will work until it doesn't and then I will have to slow down yet again.  Sighhhhh....................

 

Bart has said that one day this will all be in the rear view mirror and I am hanging on to that.

 

 

Yes enjoy those larger cuts. I'm currently doing 0.006mg per day. However, it really isn't bothering me. When my dose was higher I really thought there could be nothing worse than having to go so slow, and I dreaded it happening, but it's not that bad. I am symptom free at the moment (touch wood) and life is good, so there is no temptation at all to go any faster.

 

Taking a really big hit at 1mg was enough to really teach me patience. It was a hard way to learn it, but in a weird kind of way I'm sort of glad it happened, because if it hadn't I might still be tempted to do silly things.

[[Di...]]

Hi everyone

It is so wonderful to be in touch with people that "Have walk the walk and can talk the talk" I am a firm believer. So I am new and need help from you all. I was on Ativan for 2 years 2to 3 mg a day. Switched to V following Ashton protocol. I rushed my cuts end up in the hospital with shakes.The doctor reinstated me back to 15 mg V. in the beginning of June 2013. This time I totally followed the Aston slow taper chart.

Now I am at 3.5mg, lately I have been cutting 1/2 mg every 2 weeks, use to cut 1 mg before. The w/d symptoms are getting harder. Please explain to me how liquid V daily cuts works excuse my ignorance.

It sounds very complicated because my brain fog is very bad from the w/d.

Please explain in simple terms.

Thank you so much for your help.

 

Hi D21

 

Etown has already given you some really good information on the daily taper method he uses, and Eliz has already pointed you to the link I have for the method I use. It's in my signature below to save you going back to the first post.

 

So you've got some choices, and there are even more methods available. There is no right or wrong way to taper. Just the method that works best for you.

 

Just shout if you have any questions.

[[Si...]]

hi all im new here. the ashton manual shows 5, 4, 3, 2, then 1mg doses for a week or two hold in every reduction. but looking at your posts and signatures, it seems that its still gonna be a long taper from 2mg to 0. im thinking about switching to valium from my low dose xanor 0.20mg-0.25mg per day for the past month. now im having 2nd thoughts. any thoughts? thanks all..

[[Sm...]]

Enjoy the cut rates of .03 and .025 as long as you can ladies.

 

I am currently at .009 and hoping for it to last until after the holidays.  Slowing down sucks out loud but at least right now other than on and off sleep difficulties, I am (shhhhh or the benzo beast will hear) relatively symptom free.  And that will work until it doesn't and then I will have to slow down yet again.  Sighhhhh....................

 

Bart has said that one day this will all be in the rear view mirror and I am hanging on to that.

 

 

You are almost there. Soon you wont have to worry about slowing down because you'll be done and free 

[[Sm...]]

Hi all

 

So the measuring cylinder arrived. And my syringe measurements varied from 9mls-6mls off. I don't know why. In any case I want to use the measuring cylinder from now.

 

Sooo just so I'm straight: if I put extra water in my mix - by going up to the 99ml mark on the cylinder - and keep cutting I am right in thinking I will be cutting slightly less Valium overall then I have been and possibly have a very slight updose yes?

 

Thank you!!!

 

Bumping this cause I don't want to make an unfortunate cut.. sorry.. just another brain chime in so I'm sure: I will be if anything having a slight updose with less of a daily reduction because the solution will be more dilute with the measuring cylinder yes?

[[et...]]

Got an idea. What is/are your most irritating symptoms. Once we know maybe we can share tricks to help each other.

Happy Friday

etown

[[...]]

Hi Smiff,

When I want to reduce the rate I taper, I use more suspension fluid and the same amount of valium.  For example right now I am dissolving a 5mg tab in 6ml water then adding to 104 ml ora-plus/ora-sweet to end up with 5mg in 110ml which reducing at .2ml daily = a daily reduction of .0091mg.  When I want to slow down to .008 I will dissolve the 5mg tab into a 125ml solution.  So to answer your question (if I understand it correctly) yes, more liquid with the same amount of V will give you a slower reduction rate or a slight up-dose depending on how you draw it up.  Was that what you wanted to know?

 

Human,

I crossed from K to V.  I did not experience depression even with the sedating effects of the V but then that never was an issue for me from the beginning.  I did find that the first couple of weeks when I was fully off the K and on the V, I was having rough side effects but I think it was the K withdrawal effing with me.  Once I was fully on the V for about a month things smoothed out quite a bit.  I still think that I am dealing with the last of the K withdrawals from time to time as reading about it puts it in the category of being one of the most tightly binding and difficult to taper from benzos.  That being said - what etown suggested in tapering off the last crumb of K while holding the V to prevent further depression from emerging does seem like a prudent course of action.  Not sure if you needed all that info but thought it might help with your decision.

 

Hi Sigmund

Of course no one can make that decision for you, but using my own personal experience as my guide, I am glad I crossed over.  I was already in tolerance w/d and having inter-dose w/d on the clonazepam (Klonapin) and it just did not agree with me at all so tapering from it would likely not have worked.  Valium has its own challenges, but once I crossed over, things became much easier for me to manage.  Good Luck with your decision. 

[[...]]

Got an idea. What is/are your most irritating symptoms. Once we know maybe we can share tricks to help each other.

Happy Friday

etown

 

I posted this on the working thread but here you go etown

 

etown - my symptoms are mostly limited to the afternoons.  I when the glutamate storm tries to build and if my tapering is too fast, I get pain and tightness between my shoulder blades.  On a bad day this could build to a burning pressure in my chest at my sternum.  This does not happen much anymore but the tightness between the shoulder blades is present at some small degree or another every day from about 2 - 6pm.  Mostly I can ignore it, but on bad days like Mondays, I put an ice pack underneath my bra band and lean back on it in a chair.  It does not make it go away, but somehow distracts my mind from it.

 

Also, any new ideas to improve falling and staying asleep are always welcome.  The usual suspects are not really helping much anymore and I wonder if I should just stop all sleep aids and start trying to fall asleep on my own.  I get really sleepy and start yawning uncontrollably between 7 - 8pm but after that always seem to get a second wind and do not end up falling asleep until after 10:30pm.  I then usually wake around 2:30am, only getting around 4 hours of sleep.  A good day is 5 hours.......................   This is the case whether I am tapering fast, slow or holding.

[[...]]

Hi Diaz-Pam

 

I started a post in the blog section so I could put a link in my signature members could click to read how I am doing my tablet into suspension daily cut method.

 

I have tried but am apparently still a hopeless BB site rookie.    How do I change the wording in the link to read "EXAMPLE of how to do a tablet in liquid suspension reduction" like you did for the link in your signature? 

[[...]]

Hi Everyone so great to have you to talk to.

I have a question and need your help. Does benzo withdrawal cause blood glucose elevation? My blood sugar is elevated but not Diabetic. I was reading that withdrawal effects endocrine system, but I am not sure about glucose.Any of you experienced this?

[[bu...]]

Actually, my blood glucose has dropped since I started my taper.

[[Sm...]]

Hi everyone this is my plan.

 

Please post any advise .

 

My Doctor has agreed and 8 month taper at 2 mill a month but I feel as if this is to quick, Below is what I think I could manage, Some advise would be great thanks.

 

 

15 mill starting point.

 

1st reduction to 13.75 hold for 3 weeks

 

2nd reduction to 12.5 hold for 3 weeks

 

3rd reduction to 11.25 hold for 3 weeks

 

4th reduction to 10 hold for 3 weeks

 

5th reduction t0 9 hold for 3 weeks

 

6th reduction t0 8 hold for 3 weeks

 

7thy reduction to 7 hold for 3 weeks

 

8th reduction to 6 hold for 3 weeks

 

9th reduction to 5 hold for 3 weeks.

 

Then the last 5 mill reduced buy 0.5 every to weeks until 0

[[et...]]

Small - everyone is so different its crazy. Most people here would be ok to start with this but you may be a little zealous from 10mg down. All you can do is give it a whirl and keep learning here so you know what to do if the wheels fly off. Back up plans are very important in my opinion. I daily taper using jewelers scales and a nail file and if I had it to do over again I would daily taper from start to finish.

etown

[[Sm...]]

Thanks for the reply etown.

 

I'm in constant state of withdrawal even on the meds so ive got to get off  them.

 

plus my dr stopped my scrip and my Pdoc said he would leave me on them for 3 months then reduce them over 8 months at 2 mill a month which I feel is a bit to much.

 

So I thought I would get a head start,An if im honest i want of them as I feel they have not worked for years and im just a legal junkie.

 

The aston manual recommends 1 mill cuts every 2 weeks so I though im not to far out.

 

Anyway thanks again.

[[et...]]

Small - we all want off the drugs so I understand. You just need to know what you are going to do if your plan does not work the way you expect. So many  if not all of us on BB have made plans that didn't come true. Just good to be prepared and I'm not just blowing smoke this is the real thing.

etown

[[Sm...]]

Thanks buddy.

 

My back up plan will have to be a beg to my Pdoc to give me longer.

 

But im going to do this for me and my family. Ill stick to my plan and hope and pray im one of the lucky ones

[[...]]

Hi Smallred

I suggest keeping a log of your reductions and for how long you hold each one.  If it gets to the point that your cut rate becomes unmanageable and you need to slow down, showing your progress log to your doctor should convince him that you are serious and making progress.  With this information, he could be more willing to continue prescribing as long as he can see you are continuing to reduce albeit at a slower rate than originally planned.

 

You are in the right place for all the help and advice you will need.

[[Sm...]]

Yes I will do that.

 

Like you say as long as im making progress they may prescribe them for a longer period of time.

 

Lets hope I don't need to.

 

And thanks for the advise,Eliz

[[...]]

Yes I will do that.

 

Like you say as long as im making progress they may prescribe them for a longer period of time.

 

Lets hope I don't need to.

 

And thanks for the advise,Eliz

 

[[Di...]]

Hi Diaz-Pam

 

I started a post in the blog section so I could put a link in my signature members could click to read how I am doing my tablet into suspension daily cut method.

 

I have tried but am apparently still a hopeless BB site rookie.    How do I change the wording in the link to read "EXAMPLE of how to do a tablet in liquid suspension reduction" like you did for the link in your signature? 

 

Hey Eliz

 

It's really easy. This is what you type....(Ignore the space at the beginning. I've just put it there to show how it looks).

 

[ url=http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=97043.0]EXAMPLE of how to do a tablet in liquid suspension reduction[/url]

 

and it should work like this.... You could also then play around with fonts, colours etc.

 

EXAMPLE of how to do a tablet in liquid suspension reduction

 

It does make life much easier having a link like that to your own method because it saves you having to explain it every time, and maybe also forgetting something.

 

 

[[...]]

Woo Hoo!

 

I'm fancy now!

 

Thanks DP you're the best!!