Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[mr...]]

Thanks D21,

Looks like you will be there soon.

Recover quickly.

 

[[or...]]

jj do you mean the valium tablets? What mg of valium will you be on to start with?

 

Okatz

[[et...]]

Hi folks I am totally lost on here. We have been without power for 2 days now. Still don't have it! I will have to read back and see if I promised any answers and didn't get to them. If anyone knows of anything please ask again. My wife and I are in Frankenmuth Michigan for a few days. Google Bronner's Christmas Store. It's her dream come true. Biggest Christmas store in maybe the whole world. Feeling a little burned after the drive and running around but worth the hassle so far. Light snow falling downtown so its like a movie.

etown

[[jj...]]

okatz, I know that I'm not being very clear. I really didn't understand the cross-over, I thought that it was done in one big chunk and not over a period of time. Right now I'm on 2mg of v in the AM and .5 mg of k in the PM. I know this might be asking a lot, but I think what I need is someone to tell me in detail how I cross over entirely to v. I'm not sure I want to even start tapering until I've crossed over. I'm still in pretty bad w/d and I know that the mg of k that I was on isn't going to stabilize me. I was hoping that the added v would, but maybe this is my baseline and I taper down from feeling where I'm at. I sure hope not, because that would be a rough road, but I just added the 2 mg of v on Friday so it's still only been a few days.

 

As of right now, my understanding is that I would convert the .5 into three doses and c/o using the time frames from schedule 3 in the Ashton manual. The lowest dose is a .5 tablet, so if I'm understanding correctly, what is required is that I learn how to either use a milk or ora-plus solution (or the scales method) because I won't be able to accurately split the k and v pills as I'm c/o. As for the extra 2mg of v. My plan right now is just to split it and take in the AM and Afternoon and work on reducing down from 12 mg of v once I get to that point.

 

Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Am I missing anything or misunderstanding anything?

[[mr...]]

Hi jj,

.5mg Klonopin = 10mg Valium.

If u want to gradually reduce, you would need to stepwise cut the klonopin while adding in the equivelent valium to cross over.

How long have u been on 2mg valium?

 

 

[[jj...]]

mrtmeo, I've been on it for 4 days.

[[mr...]]

mrtmeo, I've been on it for 4 days.

JJ,

It can take as much as 8 days for you to feel the effects of the valium, so don't think that you are stuck feeling this bad for the whole cross over.

You may want to wait a few more days and see if things get a little better before cutting K and adding in the equivelent valium.

The ashton manual recommends a week before cutting and swapping, but this is just a general guideline.

You can go as slow as u need to feel stable before cutting again.

 

The ashton cross over would use .25mg K with 5mg V at night to be equivelent to .5mg K.

[[or...]]

jj I agree with mrmateo. Actually, I don't know much about crossovers from K to v.  Are you OK with this now?

 

Okatz

[[Di...]]

Hi Everyone

 

Sorry if I've been a bit of a MIA poster over the last couple of days. I've been really busy getting everything organised for the family to come for Christmas.

 

So, I'm just quickly jumping in to wish everyone a lovely day tomorrow. It's Christmas Eve afternoon here is Aussie-Land, and of course it's hot which I'm sure most of you find really strange at Christmas time... lol.....

 

 

[[Wo...]]

JJ - You don't necessarily have to foliow any hard and fast rules when you cross over. When I crossed from Xanax to Valium I did it in 1/3rds because that's what was easiest with the pills that I had. I took about a week for each third of my dose, so I was fully crossed over (and stable) in about 3 weeks. I waited another 2 or 3 weeks to begin my taper just to let the memory of those awful withdrawal symptoms fade.

 

My doctor was clueless and thought I could cross straight over, but I had done my research and knew better. Fortunately he had confidence in my judgement.

 

I think If I were doing it with K to V I would replace .1mg of K with 2mgs of valium per week. My guess (and hope) is that you will feel relief as the valium builds up in your system. I always overlapped my dosages before I dropped the Xanax. For example, I started off on .25X in the morning and .125X in the evening. For the first few days I added in 2.5mgs valium along with my evening Xanax dose, then I dropped the evening dose of Xanax. That seemed to prevent any withdrawal symptoms from the Xanax. From there I did the same with my morning dose.

 

It might be easiest for you to use liquid K to do it that way.

 

Good Luck,

 

Workin

[[jj...]]

Yes, I think that I get it now. I'm seeing my pdoc on the 2nd of January so that gives me a little time to consider whether I want to try to do it in thirds with liquids or just c/o by splitting the dose with the .25 k and 5mg v as others have suggested and waiting two weeks between each switch.

 

Thanks for all the help with this, so grateful to have found such supportive people.

 

Have a very merry Christmas everyone and may all your tapers be smooth and easy!

[[Br...]]

Hi Everyone

 

Sorry if I've been a bit of a MIA poster over the last couple of days. I've been really busy getting everything organised for the family to come for Christmas.

 

So, I'm just quickly jumping in to wish everyone a lovely day tomorrow. It's Christmas Eve afternoon here is Aussie-Land, and of course it's hot which I'm sure most of you find really strange at Christmas time... lol.....

 

Best wishes to you DP.  Have a Happy Christmas.

[[et...]]

Merry Christmas everyone and thanks for the help this year

God bless

etown

[[Sm...]]

Merry Christmas dear friends

Hoping you are enjoying it

Much love

Smiff

[[or...]]

Merry Christmas everyone and thanks for all the help you have given me.

 

Okatz

[[...]]

Merry Christmas to all my tapering buddies

[[Th...]]

To all the wonderful buddies,

 

Merry Christmas to you and all your families.

May the new year bring good health, happiness & prosperity.

 

Take care.

 

The Rock.

[[hu...]]

Yes, I think that I get it now. I'm seeing my pdoc on the 2nd of January so that gives me a little time to consider whether I want to try to do it in thirds with liquids or just c/o by splitting the dose with the .25 k and 5mg v as others have suggested and waiting two weeks between each switch.

 

Thanks for all the help with this, so grateful to have found such supportive people.

 

Have a very merry Christmas everyone and may all your tapers be smooth and easy!

 

jjrosk,

 

I took 6 weeks to crossover from .1 mg K to 2 mg V. I did it in 4 phases, each lasting 1-2 weeks.

 

So each phase consisted of :

 

A) Adding .5 mg V

B) Microtapering down by .025 mg over the course of about 5 days. (I was already used to microtapering with a razor blade and Gemini scale)

 

I did it that way in an effort to "lead in" with the V increase first. Since the half-life of V is longer, it made sense to me to try to let the V increase build up before I felt the effect of the K decrease.

 

The crossover was not easy and at times it was really rough. That may have had to do with crossing over at such a low dose. However, I can say unequivocally at this point that I'm glad I did it! The Valium is sooooo much smoother and my anxiety is much more controlled. I have no doubt that tapering down on the V from here will be FAR easier than tapering on the K would have been.

 

Good luck! I think you're making the right call!

[[hu...]]

Merry Christmas, Buddies! Thank you all for your invaluable help and support these past few months!

[[dr...]]

Hope all my brothers and sisters of suffering are having a good holiday. Just want to thank you all for the support.

 

Drew

 

Ps-I had a few too many holiday drinks and am now paying the price with anxiety. I know what it's from so I accept the consequences. 

[[jj...]]

human11, thanks for the feedback. I've decided to do a six week c/o as well, following the Ashton manual and converting the totals in the taper schedule to fit the dose that I'm on. Seems like the most cautious thing to do. I've already added 2mg of v, which I'm hoping will give me a bit of a buffer when I c/o. I'm also going to the the pharmacy to look into liquid k to see if that might be easier than making the preparation from my tabs.

 

I'm finally feeling some reduction in the anxiety after 6 days of being on the extra dose of v after my last disastrous failed taper attempt. Seems though that there might be some things about k as far as physical symptoms that might be unique to it in the benzo world (i.e. muscle cramping) that will need to work themselves out maybe even far past the c/o. I guess one never knows until you go through it.

 

One thing I'm beginning to realize as well is that it may not necessarily the amount of the drugs that you're on but the amount that your CNS has gotten used to. I kept on telling myself, "well I'm only on .5 mg so it must be easier to taper from", but as far as the w/d goes it might be the same as if I had been on 4mg since .5 is what I was on for so long. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[[mr...]]

Hi jj,

It is all about how many glutamate receptors the body created extra, to compensate for the benzodiazepine use.

It also, depends on how many GABA receptors have been removed, due to the benzo use.

Both types of receptors need to be compensated for which takes a long time.

 

It maybe that the higher the dose, the more changes occur in the receptors, but I don't know for sure.

 

 

[[hu...]]

I'm finally feeling some reduction in the anxiety after 6 days of being on the extra dose of v after my last disastrous failed taper attempt. Seems though that there might be some things about k as far as physical symptoms that might be unique to it in the benzo world (i.e. muscle cramping) that will need to work themselves out maybe even far past the c/o. I guess one never knows until you go through it.

 

I think you are right on target with that and it's really good to be aware of that possibility going in. I started developing paresthesia (pins and needles, sometimes stinging sensations) as I was going through the crossover. Then anxiety started to get the best of me and I started to think "Shoot! What if this a reaction to the valium and I will be feeling this all through the taper?" But now the paresthesia is almost gone and it's obvious that it was due to the K w/d.

 

One thing I'm beginning to realize as well is that it may not necessarily the amount of the drugs that you're on but the amount that your CNS has gotten used to. I kept on telling myself, "well I'm only on .5 mg so it must be easier to taper from", but as far as the w/d goes it might be the same as if I had been on 4mg since .5 is what I was on for so long. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

Just speculation, but ... I absolutely think the length of time taking the benzo is a factor. On the other hand, I really think we are all highly different in out chemical sensitivities. We, the BB community, may be "outliers" of a sort. At the end of the day, I'm not sure it matters.

 

We know what we are experiencing from benzo withdrawal and we know we're not alone in our sensitivity to benzo withdrawal. It is what it is, as they say. That may be a more philosophical answer than you were looking for ... but don't beat yourself up and don't overthink it ... we're all in this together!

 

When I was scared to push through the crossover I kept reminding myself that I had come up with the best plan possible, based on all of the available information. Then I would tell myself "Plan your work and work your plan!"

 

I think I may have just set some sort of record for cliche phrases used in one post ... 

[[et...]]

I agree with Human. Keep it simple. Complicated will come on its own.

etown

[[Wo...]]

I agree with Human. Keep it simple. Complicated will come on its own.

etown

 

Great quote etown!