Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Di...]]

Hi Sarah

 

I also hope that your start date was 12th Sept 2013 and not December 9 2013. Dates can get very confusing on BB because a lot of people use the US version of mm/dd/yy, which I just can't get my head around, because I'm used to dd/mm/yy. That's why I always write my dates in full in my signature so there can't be any misunderstanding.

 

Anyway, that aside, even if you did start your taper in Sept that means you've reduced 14mg in 3.5 months, and that is very fast. A lot faster than most people would recommend. This could be why you are feeling the way you are. Even if you go by the maximum percentage cut that is recommended (which is 10% every 2 weeks) that is 1.6mg every 2 weeks, which is less than what you are currently doing. A lot of people would find even that amount too much anyway.

 

I personally don't like using percentages for cutting rates though because I think you need to allow a lot more flexibility in your taper and you need to cut according to how you feel, rather than what a calculator tells you. My suggestion would be to not think too much about reducing your dose right now. Just hold where you are (or even do an updose although I know that's psychologically not always a good thing to do) and see how you feel over the next month or so. That will also give you a lot more time to poke around the forum, ask a lot of questions, and get a feel for how you want to proceed with your taper.

 

This is a very good thread for you to stay on and ask a lot of questions because there are a lot of really knowledgeable people here who have also started from a higher dose like you have.

 

Just out of interest, do you mind if I ask how old you are? If you around the age of menopause (or even if you are prone to PMS symptoms), that can also have a big influence on how you taper because hormone symptoms and benzo withdrawal symptoms can be almost identical.

[[Di...]]

btw Sarah – if you want to find all the posts you have made, you just go to “Profile” (on the left hand side of the screen near the top), then select “Summary”, then under your cute monkey photo you will see “Show posts” and that will be all the posts you have made so far.  You can also do that for any other poster on BB, except you just click on their user name, and then click on the “Show posts” under their photo.

 

Here is the link to all your posts. http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=29345

[[Sm...]]

Hey Sarah

 

Yes I hated losing my intelligence too. I'm in the middle of a conversation and I forget what I was talking about. And I know exactly what you mean about socialising! I too feel like I can't have a scintillating, intelligent conversation with friends. So I'm going through a bit of an introverted phase which is fine I guess. All things pass with time.

 

On the topic of time: hopefully you are one of the lucky ones and can tolerate that cut rate. I'd suggest a hold for 2 weeks to see if anymore symptoms catch up with you. They really really have a way of suddenly catching up with you and what is 2 weeks out of your life? If you are good to go on that cut rate then you are lucky and I'd love to see someone free of this stuff without the time or pain. If not, and you find the symptoms catch up with you we are here with advice on how to proceed (we've all been there: tapering too fast and then hitting the benzo wall; hopefully not in your case though)

 

Peace

Smiff

[[Th...]]

I come back to visit and wish you all an easier year next year, and find you've moved!  I can't possibly catch up on this conversation, but DP I was glad to see at the start that things seem to be going well for you.  My trailblazing friend, I have much to thank you for.

 

I have so much gratitude for this forum and all the information and support I've found here during 2013.  It's been absolutely invaluable and I'm not sure how I could have managed without it.  I really hope that all of you are feeling the same, and that 2014 turns out to be all you hope for and more. 

 

T

[[os...]]

J-Bird I take Neurontin -- did before my taper for peripheral neuropathy. I find it helps me sleep just FYI. I take it at night. I don't have any s/x from it. Although I understand your concern about tapering off it.

 

Sarah it took me a year and 3 months to taper down from 15 mg of valium to 2 mg. I really got hit at 4 mg . . . and again at 2 mg. etown is right -- slower is better. I made a lot of mistakes and had a lot of horrible s/x. If I had to do it over I would have gone waaaaay slower and saved myself a lot of grief. I didn't find this BB until I was "in the weeds". Brother do I wish I had.

 

You'll find a lot of help and good advice here.

 

Let's all be well,

 

 

Okatz

 

Okatz, 4 mg V equivalent was exactly when I got slammed also... oh my, that was the worst week ever... I so do NOT want that happening again.

 

Seems even turtles can get ahead and get slammed... which is why I taper so very slowly.

 

I wish I felt better than I do going this slow... but I can't say that is always the case now... these lower mgs are tricky and I am often feeling stuff no matter what...

 

If this was totally fool proof we would all know it by now and everyone would taper this way... sadly some of us still have issues, it's truly maddening.

 

Oscar

[[Pr...]]

Hello everyone, I was referred to this board from the other taper plan board.

 

I see my doctor tomorrow and this is the taper plan I worked out.  Does this sound reasonable?

 

Total for day Reduction Percentage

2.5 2.5 2.5 7.5

2.5 2.5 2 7 0.5 7%

2 2.5 2 6.5 0.5 7%

2 2 2 6 0.5 8%

1.75 1.75 1.75 5.25 0.75 13%

1.5 1.5 1.5 4.5 0.75 14%

1.25 1.25 1.25 3.75 0.75 17%

1 1 1 3 0.75 20%

0.75 0.75 0.75 2.25 0.75 25%

0.5 0.5 0.5 1.5 0.75 33%

0.25 0.25 0.25 0.75 0.75 50%

 

I take three times a day now, or should I start reducing to taking 2 times per day?

 

[[Pr...]]

I just want to get off this stuff!

 

Thank you all for support!

[[et...]]

I say 5% every 4 weeks to be safe.I know how bad you want to be off and boy do I know but a few months extra in your case may be a good plan. I would suggest you read back on this thread and see how people are doing it. It may save you a lot of grief in the end.

etown

[[Pr...]]

Even after just 2 months on this.  That seems crazy.  But yes. I have read a lot on here and was trying to find a quick easy way out.  Doesn't look like there is one.  Looks like I will be with you guys for awhile.  It's great to know that there is someplace to come for help and support.  My daughter seems to think I can just stop!

 

Actually being on here and reading others stories and encouragement calms me down.  I am much calmer in the evening when I am reading here than I am during the day at work and dealing with everyone and the stresses that go along with that.

 

Advice on how to cut the pills in such small increments is greatly appreciated.  Asking for 2mg pills tomorrow from the 5mg I have now that I take half of (2.5) 3 times daily.

 

THank you all!

[[No...]]

Ashton says 5-10% every 2-3 weeks. I say 5% every 4 weeks to be safe.I know how bad you want to be off and boy do I know but a few months extra in your case may be a good plan. I would suggest you read back on this thread and see how people are doing it. It may save you a lot of grief in the end.

etown

 

Hi, etown. 

 

Can you provide a link where Ashton says 5-10% every 2-3 weeks? I haven't been able to find where she says anything about decreasing by percentages, though I see it referenced here a lot.

 

The only Ashton schedule I've seen is this one: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm

 

Thanks much!

[[jj...]]

Hey etown, it's a little confusing from your signature, but did you taper your first 10mg of v in basically nine months?

[[Di...]]

I come back to visit and wish you all an easier year next year, and find you've moved!  I can't possibly catch up on this conversation, but DP I was glad to see at the start that things seem to be going well for you.  My trailblazing friend, I have much to thank you for.

 

I have so much gratitude for this forum and all the information and support I've found here during 2013.  It's been absolutely invaluable and I'm not sure how I could have managed without it.  I really hope that all of you are feeling the same, and that 2014 turns out to be all you hope for and more. 

 

T

 

Hi T

 

Good to hear from you. I hope everything is going well with your taper. What dose are you at now? How are you going with the lyme diagnosis?

[[Di...]]

Even after just 2 months on this.  That seems crazy.  But yes. I have read a lot on here and was trying to find a quick easy way out.  Doesn't look like there is one.  Looks like I will be with you guys for awhile.  It's great to know that there is someplace to come for help and support.  My daughter seems to think I can just stop!

 

Actually being on here and reading others stories and encouragement calms me down.  I am much calmer in the evening when I am reading here than I am during the day at work and dealing with everyone and the stresses that go along with that.

 

Advice on how to cut the pills in such small increments is greatly appreciated.  Asking for 2mg pills tomorrow from the 5mg I have now that I take half of (2.5) 3 times daily.

 

THank you all!

 

Unfortunately even 2 months is plenty long enough to become dependent. However, hopefully you won't need to take as long coming off as most of who were on valium for much longer.

 

You have quite a few options. As you already have access to 5mg tablets, you could try reducing by 0.25mg at a time to see how that feels. You can get the 0.25 by quartering the 5mg tablet which gives you 1.25mg and with a combination of cutting 5mg and 2mg tablets you can end up with increments of 0.25mg.

 

If you find that the 0.25mg is still too much, there are other options, like doing a liquid taper or using a set of jewellers scales to cut smaller portions off your tablets.

[[et...]]

Sorry NoKlon - I have just assumed that what I have read on here is right...bad move on my part. Actually I will adjust my post because I really don't care what Ashton says anyway in my case. I go by no more than 5-10% every 4 weeks and preferrably 5% below 10 mg.

 

Prize - I ordered a jewelers scale from amazon called a Gemini Pro 20 and daily micro taper. To be honest if I had to do it over I would daily taper even at higher doses. Daily tapering for me has given me more control of my taper. I use the symptom based slow method and you can catch problems a lot faster. Here is a link to my method.  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=92221.

 

Jrosk - yes I did taper the first 10mg of valium  as you say. BUT read a little further and you'll see I had to add 7mg because of a sleeping pill called Serax that I did not know was a Benzo so technically I had an extra 7mg of coverage while tapering to 10mg so I could go a little faster. Does this make any sense?

etown

[[dr...]]

Hi everyone,

 

Hope all is doing well. I started to feel my daily cuts catching up with me yesterday. I held and today they are worse. Luckily not nearly as bad as when I did the cut and suffer.  Some cog fog, general weirdness, trouble breathing, and fast heart.  I'm not freaked out just uncomfortable. Hopefully today will be the worst(prob not since the lag time) since I have a really nice dinner out tomorrow. I am below 2.5 which is a mini milestone. I'm just thankful the daily cuts don't whack me as hard.

 

Drew

[[jj...]]

etown, yes it does make sense. Must have been frustrating to find out.

 

As an aside, from 10mg v down in all of the Ashton tapers it's a 10% cut every one to two weeks from the original 10mg dose. I'm actually glad this came up because I've been wondering about it myself. It does get a little confusing to hear 10% reductions though, because people coming off of longer tapers would taper several decades if the 10% reduction was adjusted to the current dose every two weeks. At 12mg, if I adjusted the rate to 10% it would take me over 2 years to taper... so is this what people mean?

[[et...]]

Jrosk - yes that is what people mean. I am looking at at least 2 years to get off the remaining 9.5mg. But I do work and have a lot of other responsibilities in life so I have no other choice but go slow...plus I hate the symptoms of w/d with a fine passion.

etown

[[Sm...]]

Hi all

 

I'm having trouble breathing too

 

I'm not having any other side effects. Kind of the opposite. I slept last night with only melatonin for instance because I dropped the Doxy thinking the breathing problems might be that.

 

Well the breathing problems are still here and the only yoga class they weren't around was the day I missed my morning - before yoga - dose.

 

 

And one of the side effects of Valium is trouble breathing. It suggests asthmatics or people with breathing problems shouldn't go on it. I was slightly asthmatic before this. But I do have an impressive track record for getting every side effect of any drug.

Ventolin etc doesn't seem to help. I'm not sure what to do. I obviously can't just quit valium (which is what Drs may suggest)

Maybe move my dosages away from the pepperine I've been taking?? I'm fairly convinced the pepperine has been amping the Valium because I've been so fine - too fine - and able to increase my cut rate. The writing on it is sparse but suggests pepperine would amp valium. It also says because peppering increases absorbtion etc of many drugs it increases side effects.

Maybe I could move that morning dose- I didn't have it the day I had my morning dose post yoga? arggg.. I'm really hoping I haven't developed this side effect from Valium. I need to be on this stupid stuff right now.

Any suggestions? Previous experiences?

[[Sm...]]

p.s I don't want to ditch pepperine altogether because it does help with the curcumin and I'm kind of becoming a real believer in their benefits for brain and mood.

[[Di...]]

Sorry NoKlon - I have just assumed that what I have read on here is right...bad move on my part. Actually I will adjust my post because I really don't care what Ashton says anyway in my case. I go by no more than 5-10% every 4 weeks and preferrably 5% below 10 mg.

 

 

From my understanding, the percentage rate is what is recommended by TRAP and used on BB (but I'm happy to be corrected on that, although I know I have seen some mods refer to the percentage cuts in their welcoming posts to newbies). These are a couple of links to TRAP’s suggestions and guidelines.

 

http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/diazepam.html

 

http://www.non-benzodiazepines.org.uk/taper.html

 

This is also what Dr Ashton herself says about “slow” tapers.

 

“It is sometimes claimed that very slow withdrawal from benzodiazepines "merely prolongs the agony" and it is better to get it over with as quickly as possible. However, the experience of most patients is that slow withdrawal is greatly preferable, especially when the subject dictates the pace. Indeed, many patients find that there is little or no "agony" involved. Nevertheless there is no magic rate of withdrawal and each person must find the pace that suits him best. People who have been on low doses of benzodiazepine for a relatively short time (less than a year) can usually withdraw fairly rapidly. Those who have been on high doses of potent benzodiazepines such as Xanax and Klonopin are likely to need more time.”

 

I think far too many people try to make this issue something of a debate, as has been seen on another thread recently where my intentions have been brought into question and false accusations made about me. I am very upset about the accusations made about me by another poster, because I have always had a good reputation on BB and my intentions have never been brought into question.

 

Anyway, like you Etown, I have very little interest in what Dr Ashton, TRAP or even BB has to say about tapering anyway. I will continue to taper the way I feel is right for me, and I will continue to offer support and advice to others who ask for it.

 

[[Di...]]

Hi everyone,

 

Hope all is doing well. I started to feel my daily cuts catching up with me yesterday. I held and today they are worse. Luckily not nearly as bad as when I did the cut and suffer.  Some cog fog, general weirdness, trouble breathing, and fast heart.  I'm not freaked out just uncomfortable. Hopefully today will be the worst(prob not since the lag time) since I have a really nice dinner out tomorrow. I am below 2.5 which is a mini milestone. I'm just thankful the daily cuts don't whack me as hard.

 

Drew

 

Hey well done Drew!!! Under 2.5mg - that is certainly something to celebrate.

 

Yes it is a pain (literally) when those cuts start to catch up, but look on the bright side. Doing a daily taper means that when you do strike problems, they are solved a lot more quickly than when you do those larger one-off cuts. Just hang tough my friend, and you will be fine in a day or three.

[[et...]]

DP - I am behind you 100%! I have no need to debate with anyone. I know what I'm doing and so do you. You have been a great help to me and many others so don't sweat it. That's why I stay away from numerous threads. they friggin drain me and I don't need to be drained. thanks for taking the time to find those links. I knew they were somewhere but I choose to spend my time helping me and others rather than wasting time on every point. I am not perfect by any means but I know I have helped way more people than I've led astray and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I will not quote anybody but me from now on.

etown

[[Di...]]

etown, yes it does make sense. Must have been frustrating to find out.

 

As an aside, from 10mg v down in all of the Ashton tapers it's a 10% cut every one to two weeks from the original 10mg dose. I'm actually glad this came up because I've been wondering about it myself. It does get a little confusing to hear 10% reductions though, because people coming off of longer tapers would taper several decades if the 10% reduction was adjusted to the current dose every two weeks. At 12mg, if I adjusted the rate to 10% it would take me over 2 years to taper... so is this what people mean?

 

My advice to anyone tapering is to forget about percentages altogether. They usually only add to the confusion. Just taper according to how you feel. Percentages will never work, because you would go on tapering forever, if you only worry about percentages.

 

However, something I have found quite interesting in my case is that my percentage cuts have gone up the lower I've gotten. My maximum cuts used to only work out to about 8%, but my current cuts are now around 12%, even though the size of my cuts are much much smaller.

 

 

[[et...]]

To quote myself "% goes up as dose goes down"

etown

[[Di...]]

DP - I am behind you 100%! I have no need to debate with anyone. I know what I'm doing and so do you. You have been a great help to me and many others so don't sweat it. That's why I stay away from numerous threads. they friggin drain me and I don't need to be drained. thanks for taking the time to find those links. I knew they were somewhere but I choose to spend my time helping me and others rather than wasting time on every point. I am not perfect by any means but I know I have helped way more people than I've led astray and I am not afraid to admit when I am wrong. I will not quote anybody but me from now on.

etown

 

Thanks E. You're a good Buddy. 

 

Yes, I should know better than to get involved in some threads, because this "them and us" thing is definitely nothing new. From my experience most daily taperers that I know are only too happy to support any kind of taper, as long as it gets you to zero. 

 

Hey Ho!! I refuse to let other people's negativity impact my life. I'm going out to dinner tonight to celebrate New Year's Eve and I'm going to eat what I want and do what I want (might even dance on a table top), because I don't care about my taper right now..lol.... Tomorrow is another day.

 

Happy 2014 Everyone.