Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[J-...]]

Thanks Smiff ,

I'm not on any other psych meds, just Lyrica.

Should I go on an SSRI?  I have pretty bad depression because yes

I'm physically and mentally exhausted.

I hardly sleep at all...very bad insominia.

[[Sm...]]

Thanks Smiff ,

I'm not on any other psych meds, just Lyrica.

Should I go on an SSRI?  I have pretty bad depression because yes

I'm physically and mentally exhausted.

I hardly sleep at all...very bad insominia.

 

Oh I thought you were still on a small dose of zoloft.. oh yea i see you tapered the beginning of this year. Yea that is a lot of changes to your body/brain.

Considering all that I personally think you may have been tapering the valium too fast since then.

On adding another psych med like an SSRI.. again I can only say what I would do: I wouldn't add something to the mix unless I couldn't/didn't want to get stable on benzos and I was losing my mind; in that case I might for my sanity seek something like remeron or trazadone or mayyybee more lyrica that might slightly alleviate some of the insomnia and anxiety and keep pushing through. But that is just me, and I haven't had as bad luck as you with psych meds in the past. I'm not a psych or doctor so you'd have to speak to a professional. The final thing to consider if you want to go down the path of adding anything is that these drugs have withdrawals of their own for many people. In my case I'd just choose to kick an AD withdrawal down the road for the sake of benzo withdrawal relief (if they gave it to me that is).

I do hope you get some sleep and physical/mental calm soon xx

[[jj...]]

Hi J-Bird. I'm pretty new at this myself, so I don't have much sagely advice to offer you. But I did want to say a heartfelt I'm so sorry for all of the misery you have been going through the last couple of years. As you can see in my signature I was on a very high dose of gabapentin for several months before a rapid taper and switching over to clonazepam, so I'm in a similar boat as you, not really knowing what has happened to my brain, exactly what I'm reacting to or why I'm feeling so unwell.

 

I think that if there is any silver lining in this whole thing it is that the brain, mind and the body have a tremendous capacity to heal if given a chance. It's been hard for me to keep that in mind when my head is spinning and I'm in panic, but people do heal from this. I'm so glad that you have a loving support person in The Rock helping you through this. I'm wishing you all the best. 

[[J-...]]

Thank you both for your replies.

 

Smiff I really do agree that I need something to get me through this

Because I can't continue this way. I used to be on 15mg of remeron

When I was on 3 mg of Ativan, and I'd sleep so maybe I'll give it another go.

 

I think in the meantime I will hold at 10.5 mg, switch to daily liquid titration

And hold and pray that I stabilize. I don't see my dr until another 3 weeks

So will have to wait awhile to seek help.

 

Jjrosk thanks for you support. Yes I worry also how and when to get off Lyrica.

I don't know how I can get through yet another withdrawal.

[[Di...]]

Hi to all in this group. I have not been in touch for awhile due a stomach bug, the holidays and also just trying to get into the swing of daily tapering.

 

I have now been tapering steadily starting at 8mg on 12/16/13, starting at .02 an now .03 daily and if all goes well I would like to increase to .04 and hopefully by the time I get to around 7mg, try to maintain a .05 daily cut till I get to about 5mg if possible. Then I most likely will have to go lower again based on my symptoms...

 

Is tapering at .05 daily reduction a reasonable goal at this stage as I don't want to over reach however I got the impression from many of you that you were able to taper higher amounts at higher doses of Diazepam and had to go lower as you got lower down. If my body can't tolerate it, of course I will go down to .04 or .03 again sooner, however I was wondering if anyone had success at .05 daily micro tapering dose coming from 7mg? I want to take advantage of being on a higher dose now as I am certain i will be going much slower down the road.

 

I am getting used to the micro tapering now combining the capsules wight the liquid 1mg I use for reduction. I still need to take several small doses throughout  the day however that method seems to be working so far so I am doing that and staying within my daily limit.

 

So far, so good. I am a bit more lethargic then normal and my body is tighter then normal  however beyond that, I seem to be ok which is a good thing.

 

LooKing for feedback on this question? Concerned

 

Hi Concerned

 

I hope you are feeling better now. It's good to hear that you are doing okay with your taper.

 

I started from 5mg, so my taper rate then was different to what yours is now, but when I was at 5mg I think the highest cut I was able to make was about 0.03mg, but I think that was fairly short lived. I seem to remember I pretty much settled on about 0.02mg to 0.025mg and then went to 0.015mg when I got to 4mg.

 

When you are at 7mg, a 0.05mg daily cut would be a 10% cut every 2 weeks. That's okay, but it is at the upper end of what's recommended. However, everyone is different and if you are coping okay with that size cut then stick with it as long as you can. You will need to slow soon enough, so you might as well go as fast as you can while you can. To be honest though, I wouldn't try to make too many long term plans about what taper rate you want to stay with. I've learned not to look too far ahead, because things always change.

[[et...]]

JBird - just the fact that you are on here is a great move forward. I'm not sure if you realize how far you have come. I know that all the ups and downs over the past few years will definately make your taper challenging. I've been here reading the rock's posts for a long time now. when I look at your sig, I can see you have come down very fast on the Valium. I am a firm believer that for most people there is a stable dose of Valium. Unfortunately for you right now that stable dose may be substantially higher than 10.5 mg. You could try to hold for a good while at 10.5mg. If you don't feel better in 2-4 weeks you may need to taper up until you do feel better and then come back down much slower.

 

I can't believe I am even typing this post. I had a crazy stomach flu all day and I think I may have got rid of a few organs lol.

 

Keep the questions coming jbird. there are always options

etown

[[Sm...]]

Thank you both for your replies.

 

Smiff I really do agree that I need something to get me through this

Because I can't continue this way. I used to be on 15mg of remeron

When I was on 3 mg of Ativan, and I'd sleep so maybe I'll give it another go.

 

I think in the meantime I will hold at 10.5 mg, switch to daily liquid titration

And hold and pray that I stabilize. I don't see my dr until another 3 weeks

So will have to wait awhile to seek help.

 

 

Sounds like a good plan.

 

Did you ever feel 'stable' after the Zoloft taper before the Valium taper?

If a hold doesn't get you to a stable point and there was a point in your valium taper where you felt ok you could go up to near there or taper up as E-Town suggests.

I up-dosed fully to my original dose equivalent and I don't regret it because life is liveable now. It wouldn't have been if I'd ploughed on through.

 

Daily microtapers are great so it should make things more bearable, particularly if you start from a bearable place. I hope you can get somewhere more bearable from the many options in front of you.

Good luck

I'm glad to see you on here 

love

Smiff

[[J-...]]

Only time I felt stable was when I updosed from 10 mg to 12mg

in Feb this yr after reinstatement from c/t for about 4weeks.

This was prior to beginning my Zoloft taper which lasted about 4 months.

During this time I needed to increase the Valium to 20 mg

for Zoloft withdrawal. I did this under supervision of dr.

 

Thanks for your help, still weighing my options.

J-Bird 

[[J-...]]

Thanks etown, the thought of up dosing is terrifying

even holding does! I know I'm very impatient but I really

Must make a decision...can't go on like this.

J

[[et...]]

You are so right Jbird. Its a long way down from 10.5mg. I've been there believe me. If I get in a state of perpetual w/d I will do anything to get stable. there is no prize for toughing it out. Do what you have to do.

etown

[[J-...]]

Etown I see you were in a similar situation in the beginning but

then you updosed and started m/t...seems so slow.

How do you feel now on the m/t?

 

 

[[et...]]

The best way to answer that is I work full time and run a business on the side with my wife. I went on vacation spring and fall 2012 and 2013. I went away for 3 days before Christmas We are planning to go away this spring too. I have missed minimal days of work and do pretty much all the things someone with the flu 24/7 could do. I just went through a day of the stomach flu today and tapered all the while. Yes it is slow but by design because I want to live and smell the roses you know? I let the taper ruin my life for the first while but now I am committed to doing this symptombased taper and I don't really care how long it takes as long as I am functional. I went through hell in May and June and then had to add some V to cover a sleeping Benzo too. But since July I have lived to the best I can under the circumstances and you know what I wouldn't do it any other way.

etown

[[J-...]]

So you were ok at the beginning of your taper and only fell into

Trouble with that added benzo, then you updosed, stabilized and started

m/t...then got back into life again like beginning of taper? Is this correct?

 

Problem I've never been stable, not last year, not this year.

Only those 4 weeks after my c/t.

On top of that I don't have the support of my husband (nor my dr) to updose

Cos from my history I have trouble stabilizing at any dose.

So my only option is to hold...but how long for? I've never held for long periods

During my taper...most was 3weeks. Of course did nothing.

 

But you have given me some hope..maybe if I hold long enough then start m/t.

 

J

 

 

[[hu...]]

J-Bird,

 

For what it's worth, I do think your relatively recent experience with Zoloft, including Serotonin syndrome (yikes!) could very well be influencing the difficulties you are having now.

 

Clearly I don't have any scientific proof, but I think my c/t off Lexapro back in March left my brain chemistry in a more fragile state, without which I would not have gotten hooked on Klonopin so quickly. I've been watching for similar patterns among other benzobuddies (i.e. interplay between SSRI withdrawal and Benzo withdrawal) and I believe there is a real connection there.

 

After a couple of meltdowns from SSRI withdrawal, along with a lot of research, I find SSRIs almost as scary as benzos. Maybe not quite as scary, but in the ballpark. 

 

I also have had the eye-opening experience of having had a very close family member working as an RN on a hospital psych unit. Reading your initial post and your sig, I can see that you have had some, shall we say, less than stellar advice from hospital psych unit pdocs. I'll just say I'm not at all surprised and leave it at that so I don't digress into a rant.

 

While none of that directly answers your tapering question, what I really want to tell you is that this is not your fault. You are doing a really admirable job under incredibly trying circumstances. You will get there in due time and your brain will heal from what these drugs have done.

 

Stick around here and listen to these wise folks. They've helped me immensely.

[[J-...]]

Thanks human,

Yes, I've been (still am) in hell.

I totally trusted dr's right up to recently when I started tapering,

I was prescribed Lyrica. By the time I got knowledge through BB

And the Internet in general did I realise the utter mess I've been in

since last year. Finally all made sense, albeit too late.

 

Now I'm on Lyrica as well, so if I switch to an even slower taper with valium how long would I

I have to stay on this drug...and then to taper off that. I'm sure this is affecting my brain

chemistry as well.

 

If Zoloft has indeed affected my brain chemistry, how long till this effect diminishes?

I tapered 200mg over 4 months...still way too fast but I needed off.

 

It's just all too much. I hope all this damage is reversible.

Please I need some positive future hope that it is.

Thanks,

J-Bird

[[mr...]]

Hi jbird,

That's quite a coctail you have to taper off of.

I have seen people do it before and I'm sure someone else will chime in.

From what I have read, it looks like lyrica competes for glutamate?

If so, then, it would downregulate glutamate and theoretically, counter the down regulation of GABA?

 

I would think that if u taper all of the drugs at the same time, it should make it manageable, but I don't have any experience with that many.

Tapering seems best when you are able to do it according to the way u feel and not too fast.

 

 

[[Sm...]]

I let the taper ruin my life for the first while but now I am committed to doing this symptombased taper and I don't really care how long it takes as long as I am functional... But since July I have lived to the best I can under the circumstances and you know what I wouldn't do it any other way.

etown

 

Yup. Although I care a little long on how it takes because I think I'll probably have a second child and I have a biological clock

But.. mostly.. yup.

I reckon I'd take years or withdrawing with virtually no symptoms over even 6 months of benzo hell. I have no tolerance for benzo hell

[[J-...]]

Hi jbird,

That's quite a coctail you have to taper off of.

I have seen people do it before and I'm sure someone else will chime in.

From what I have read, it looks like lyrica competes for glutamate?

If so, then, it would downregulate glutamate and theoretically, counter the down regulation of GABA?

 

I would think that if u taper all of the drugs at the same time, it should make it manageable, but I don't have any experience with that many.

Tapering seems best when you are able to do it according to the way u feel and not too fast.

 

Hi Mrtmeo,

I'm only on two meds...Valium and Lyrica. I guess it could be described as a cocktail.

Lyrica is supposed to decrease glutamate and increase GABA. It doesn't affect GABA receptors.

I don't see the point of increasing GABA if they have nowhere to go. Hopefully it is

lowering glutamate.

If you've seen others taper more than one drug, well that gives me some hope.

Thanks for your reply,

J-Bird

 

[[J-...]]

I let the taper ruin my life for the first while but now I am committed to doing this symptombased taper and I don't really care how long it takes as long as I am functional... But since July I have lived to the best I can under the circumstances and you know what I wouldn't do it any other way.

etown

 

Yup. Although I care a little long on how it takes because I think I'll probably have a second child and I have a biological clock

But.. mostly.. yup.

I reckon I'd take years or withdrawing with virtually no symptoms over even 6 months of benzo hell. I have no tolerance for benzo hell

 

Hi Smiff,

I'm happy for you that you can taper virtually symptom free even if it does take a long

time. How long will it take?

I plan to hold for the moment then start m/t. I will use your chart as a guide and see how that goes.

Also have bad insominia to deal with...any suggestions?

BTW you seem to know quite a few people on Valium thread, do you know of anyone

who was also on Lyrica and how they tapered?

Sorry for all the questions, you do really know how to deal with this successfully.

Thanks so much

J

 

 

[[mr...]]

Hi jbird,

The body always seeks homeostasis, so if we give the body something in excess, it will try to compensate by creating more of the opposing, while down regulating the one it is getting too much of.

GABA = brakes

Glutamate = gas pedal

 

With benzo's, the body see's it is getting slowed down too much with the extra GABA (from the benzo's), so to balance this, it creates more glutamate receptors and up-regulates glutamate.

 

This is why we reach tolerance. Meanwhile, our GABA receptors are atrophying and gaba is being down regulated. If we take away the benzo's (without tapering), the body is left with far less GABA and way too much glutamate.

 

Therefore, if lyrica is blocking glutamate, I would think the body would want to create more glutamate receptors and up-regulate glutamate, in order to balance the system's lack of glutamate activity?

 

Did u taper off of temazepam?

[[J-...]]

Hi Mrtmeo,

No I'm not on Tamezpam, I was c/t but never reinstated it..I was only left

with Valium and Zoloft.  Now I am Zoloft free and only on Valium and Lyrica.

 

I don't know the technicalities of the way Lyrica works, my main concern is

How to taper off it as safely as possible.

 

So anyone out there with experience being on this drug or tapering off it..

I would love to hear from you!

 

Thanks,

J-Bird

 

 

[[co...]]

JBird,

During the last year and a half I tapered off a low dose steroid that I had been on for many years, lexapro, an antidepressant and now the remaining Benzodiazepene. I started tapering Lorazepan a year and a half ago and it was very difficult. I reduced half my dose and realized I wanted to taper off the rest of my medications as I knew they were all affecting me in different ways and I wanted to get off all the medications as they no longer served me.

 

I maintained the .75mg of Ativan( I had tapered down from 1.50) while I systematically tapered off each drug. I could only do one drug at a time and I had to go very slowly with each one. When I went off the Steroid, I waited till I stabilized and then tapered off the SSRI, lexapro at 5% every 2 weeks until I finished tapering that and only when I felt I was not in withdrawal from that and I completely healed, I recently resumed the benzo taper by crossing over to Valium for the remaining half.

 

For me, I could only withdraw one at a time as each one was very difficult in its own way and needed a slow taper and recovery time as well. SSRI's can have many side effects in withdrawal and for me it would have been too much to withdraw from more then one drug at a time. Nevertheless, we are all different. It took me more then 6 months to get off of Lexparo and then another couple of months to recover.

 

I am now adjusting to a daily micro taper on valium and so far so good however my body is weary from long term tapering. There is no easy way out of this. Just slow and steady and eventually the body heals.

 

I personally would not attempt to taper more then one drug at a time unless it is unavoidable. Ashton recommends completing the benzo first and then the SSRI however I did it in reverse as I did not like the way I felt on the Lexapro and I gained weight from it nor did I need it anymore for depression or anxiety. At least now, I am only dealing with one drug so I have  clearer idea of what is affecting me the most when I taper.

 

Hope that helps, Concerned

 

[[co...]]

Thanks Diaz-pam and Drew28 for your comments on my trying .05. Perhaps it is too ambitious, however I will start at .04 taper today and see how I do with that before i even attempt .05mg. I think I just need to let my body decide how much it can handle and give my mind a rest in trying to know in advance.

 

Does anyone here use the supplement Seriphous? If so, when do you take it and how many a day? Has it been helping with withdrawal symptoms? Also, curious about Taurine as some people say it really helps the tapering process and other people say it is a Gaba receptor antagonist so it should be avoided. Anyone who has had experience with these specific supplements or others that made this process worse or better, please let me know.

 

Thanks, Concerned

 

[[et...]]

Concerned - my experience with supplements is do not take anything that affects Gaba or Glutamate or any cleansing or detoxifying products. Some people claim they do well on certain supplements but it seems short lived. As you know I am big in to alternative medicine so I take the supplements I took before tapering and thats pretty much it for now.

etown

[[mr...]]

jbird,

Congrats on getting zoloft, ativan, xanax and temazepam free!