How do I reinstate?

[[Gu...]]

I'm not promoting the use of benzodiazapines. Trust me. I hate them. I hope Leo Sternbach is burning in hell.

 

For someone who had never taken them before and was contemplating it I would implore them to stay WELL clear of benzo's, even as a one off. However for people, such as many of us here, who've had our brain chemistry screwed up irrevocably by benzo's well thats a different story. I'm thinking more along the lines of harm reduction and quality of life and its just a fact that some people who were functional on benzo's but in total shambles for years off them may well be better off back on a low dose for life. Off benzo's for four months I now have such chronic gastric issues that I'm nauseas 24/7 and can't leave the house. Prior to tapering I never had this before, along with a plethora of other debilitating issues.

 

Should I have attempted to come off benzo's at all? Obviously not.

 

All I'm saying is that some people will need to be on benzo's for life after already severely damaging their brains and nervous systems with them.

 

Also Spengler, your 'opinion' is no more valid than mine. Just because people would rather listen to your contention because its more cheerful than mine doesn't make it right unfortunately. I've spoken to plenty of long term benzo users who couldn't recover after ceasing them, went through untold anguish and eventually were forced to concede that they 'needed' to be on them for life.

 

I'm not happy about this by any means. However whats the point in deluding people that given enough time we're all going to be hunky dory. I wish it was true.

 

Also, regarding research, people tend to find what they're looking for. Your saying everyone heals 100% without question given enough time. I'm saying thats not the case and some need to be on for life.

 

The truth, as always, will be somewhere in between.

 

Anyway what a boring forum this would be without a devils advocate. A sick, vomiting one .

[[wa...]]

Why you do keep trying to convince everyone else to get back on benzos? If that's what you want to do then do it, this "benzos for life" shit is playing like a broken record.

[[Gu...]]

Seems like I hit a sore point.

 

I'm just balancing the prevailing viewpoint here. What people do is their choice. Some people will do better off benzo's eventually. Not disputing that, I have read the success stories. Its just that some people will not and would be better off back on them. The latter is what people don't seem to want to hear.

 

Whats wrong with acknowledging that possibilty?

 

There's no real definitive evidence either way but plenty of anecdotal accounts.

[Guest [...]]

wantmylifeback. That's not what he is trying to do at all. Keep your language and your attitude in check.

 

No rational human being could have read his last post and surmised it as you have.

[Guest [...]]

Wantmylifeback:

 

Why you do keep trying to convince everyone else to get back on benzos? If that's what you want to do then do it, this "benzos for life" shit is playing like a broken record.

 

Did you actually READ what Gussy said? If so, I think you need to read it again. I really cannot understand how you would get this message from his reasoned response.

 

Xana

[[wa...]]

Xana and HM1 support Gussy, what a shocker that is. Two people that reinstated and would like to see others do the same.

This is a Benzo Withdrawal Forum and people need support. I'm sure the 3 of you can find a "benzo for life" forum.

 

Point is he keeps posting on the posts of vulnerable people. People that are extremely ill and keeps repeating his reinstatement rhetoric. Every post is "I'm going to reinstate", "I'm going to reinstate", "some people need benzos for life".  Months and months of this gets very old, how about supporting someone that is suffering?

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Xana and HM1 support Gussy, what a shocker that is. Two people that reinstated and would like to see others do the same.

 

I am trying to remain polite here but I am finding it difficult.

 

This comment is plain rude and absolutely, unforgivably accusing.

 

wantmylifeback: I am beginning to think you need to perhaps do a course in comprehension. You are projecting your own thoughts into something that has never been said by any of us. Just because we don't chant the mantra of the masses and try to work out the real truth of the matter we are attacked.

 

Is it any wonder that some have called BB a 'cult'? No room for any different opinions.

[[On...]]

Gussy, I'm sorry you're having gastric issues. That is actually the worst of my withdrawal symptoms. It's miserable, isn't it? I use this symptom as my "early warning" indicator that I need to slow my taper down or hold a short time to allow my "rate of healing" to catch up to my "rate of withdrawal". That seems to work well.for me now. Before I could make this work, I had to do some remedial work. I eliminated offending foods, especially high glutamate foods, raw nuts, high aspartate foods, fermented foods, and the big 4, soy, ultra pastured homogenized dairy, corn, and gluten. Some beans, nuts, and a few fruits are also naturally high in glutamate and these easily set off all my wd symptoms. I started.taking lactate free Probiotics from Custom Probiotics, as these do not exacerbate sx, and extra lactobacillus rhamnosis as this has been shown in research to be especially healing to the gaba receptors and is also very calming. I also take theanine and it helps.a great deal to calm my gut AND my raw wd sx. Have you tried any of these measures?  I know my gastric issues were bad enough that I had to do something different!

 

After all the time I have spent in research and reading cases here at BB, i have become a big believer in tapering at rates that allow the CNS to heal as the taper progresses. I really do believe that getting too far ahead of the healing rate with a fast taper leads to a time lag in healing. I see from your signature history that you tapered quickly. I believe you are now in that "time lag" but will heal eventually. There are MANY success stories of Buddies here that were worse off and yet DID heal.

 

And of course, because benzo are addictive, they LIE TO US and tell us we need them. All addictive substances do this. I respect and believe the many who have been there and lived through it that quitting benzo (for good) is harder than quitting herein and other narcotics.

 

I hope you feel better soon. I also note that, unlike many who jumped too soon and reinstate at a low dose so they can taper more slowly, heal, and move away from benzo forever, your posts advocate taking them forever rather than giving a more slow taper a chance. I wonder why it is your words seem to choose benzo FOREVER rather than a renewed attempt to being free forever.

 

[[fr...]]

Xana and HM1 support Gussy, what a shocker that is. Two people that reinstated and would like to see others do the same.

This is a Benzo Withdrawal Forum and people need support. I'm sure the 3 of you can find a "benzo for life" forum.

 

Point is he keeps posting on the posts of vulnerable people. People that are extremely ill and keeps repeating his reinstatement rhetoric. Every post is "I'm going to reinstate", "I'm going to reinstate", "some people need benzos for life".  Months and months of this gets very old, how about supporting someone that is suffering?

 

I totally agree. There has become so much talk about reinstatement that I don't even want to come here anymore. This is supposed to be a benzo withdrawal forum not a reinstatement forum. Vulnerable people bring up the issue because they are suffering and they need support to stay OFF benzos. While I respect an individual's choice, I will never encourage anyone to go back to benzos and I don't want anyone to encourage me to do that either or use themselves as an example to reinstate. Especially someone who hasn't even been off for six months.

[Guest [...]]

I will only speak for myself here.

 

I can say with all honesty I have NEVER suggested anyone start taking benzos again. When I have witnessed immense suffering, I have felt like suggesting it but I never have.

 

My own decision to reinstate after a year of misery was not an easy one. Coming down from an equivalent of 80-100mg V to 1mg V in a year was hard. I didn't throw away that effort carelessly. Many factors were involved, one being the need to care for my almost 94 year old mother.

 

I have NEVER said I will not consider tapering again.

 

I wish people would not put words into the mouths of others, when they have no evidence to support this. I challenge anyone to go through my posts and find anything remotely like what I have just been accused of doing!

 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Xana and HM1 support Gussy, what a shocker that is. Two people that reinstated and would like to see others do the same.

This is a Benzo Withdrawal Forum and people need support. I'm sure the 3 of you can find a "benzo for life" forum.

 

Point is he keeps posting on the posts of vulnerable people. People that are extremely ill and keeps repeating his reinstatement rhetoric. Every post is "I'm going to reinstate", "I'm going to reinstate", "some people need benzos for life".  Months and months of this gets very old, how about supporting someone that is suffering?

 

For the love of god! I do hope as part of wanting your life back you also want to grow up.

 

I'm honestly left speechless by some of the comments that are left on here.

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Xana and HM1 support Gussy, what a shocker that is. Two people that reinstated and would like to see others do the same.

This is a Benzo Withdrawal Forum and people need support. I'm sure the 3 of you can find a "benzo for life" forum.

 

Point is he keeps posting on the posts of vulnerable people. People that are extremely ill and keeps repeating his reinstatement rhetoric. Every post is "I'm going to reinstate", "I'm going to reinstate", "some people need benzos for life".  Months and months of this gets very old, how about supporting someone that is suffering?

 

For the love of god! I do help as part of wanting your life back you also want to grow up.

 

I'm honestly left speechless by some of the comments that are left on here.

 

 

 

Ditto on all that HM1! It's like bashing your head against a bloody brick wall. ('Bloody' in the sense that it would be after the head bashing - I'm not swearing!)

[Guest [...]]

Better get back on track here or we'll be in lock down.

 

I am really hoping to get an answer to this query:

 

Quote<blockquote>Populations who have been on benzos for 2-3 decades show cognitive deficits that can reliably be detected, both through physical imaging (MRI/fMRI) and through interactive testing which invariably shows short term memory and coordination which is below the scores of matched controls. </blockquote>

This is interesting, Spengler. Could you give me the link from where you read about this so I can explore it in detail and look at the studies performed please?

 

Were the controls people who had never taken any mind altering drugs? It would be interesting to see a comparison including people who have withdrawn from the drugs as well, to see if cognitive abilities return to a pre drug state. Though I guess this would not really be possible to quantify as a longitudinal study involving people prior to usage would not be able to be done.

 

I wonder what a 'matched control' is. As people all have different levels of intelligence and cognitive ability, it would seem impossible to do this. However I am not a medical researcher, so what would I know?  [img alt=]http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/Smileys/standard/undecided.gif[/img]

 

Thanks.

 

I asked my husband who is a Research Fellow at his University to have a poke around to see if he could find some evidence of this (simply because I am so lazy and he is more vigilant in his efforts - I often tell him he has Aspergers). He also has access to more stuff than I do. He couldn't find anything up to date. These sorts of claims were bandied around in the 80s and early 90s but it seems that even with the much improved brain imaging available, nothing very concrete has come up.

 

I hope Spengler can set me straight here.

 

[[In...]]

My own decision to reinstate after a year of misery was not an easy one. Coming down from an equivalent of 80-100mg V to 1mg V in a year was hard. I didn't throw away that effort carelessly. Many factors were involved, one being the need to care for my almost 94 year old mother.

 

I have NEVER said I will not consider tapering again.

 

I wish people would not put words into the mouths of others, when they have no evidence to support this. I challenge anyone to go through my posts and find anything remotely like what I have just been accused of doing!

 

That is an epic taper Xana! I can't imagine how difficult it must have been. What types of symptoms continued to cause trouble for you? If you don't feel like talking about it, I understand. Not trying to be pushy, just curious. If the time comes again and you decide to try I hope it is easier for you.

[[Bi...]]

I am very anti benzo.  I have suffered and suffered and am still suffering on my taper.

I blew it and C/T'ed from a high dose, that was stupid but I learned much.  From my suffering came the knowledge that GLUTAMATE is very toxic. We should fear glutamate more then benzo's in reality. Benzo's are like a parachute for coming down, being afraid of the benzo's is like cutting the ropes on your parachute since your afraid of the parachute, SPLAT! Not smart.  Been there. 

Gaba storms do not hurt people but glutamate storms sure could.  There is thousands of medical documents online about glutamate toxicity.  Benzo's are probably less toxic than a glutamatergic storm is.  Excitotoxicity is real and I have all the web links.  It's REALLY important to slow taper this junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BENZO'S = bad!

GLUTMIATE = NASTY!!

glutamatergic storm's = Possibly Lethal!!!

 

Your body will tell you how to get through this - We are all different.  If your suffering too much maybe your taper was too fast. I'm pretty sure we can jump just about healed if we taper correctly and that means a long taper especially at the bottom end.

 

 

[[On...]]

I hope.we can all go back to the theme here of being supportive. Everyone's experience is valid and personal to them.

 

The support we have been asked for in this specific thread is stated very clearly by the person who started the thread, in very clear language. It was NOT a "should I or shouldn't I" question. Many people do ask that question and then the "shoulds or shouldn'ts" would be appropriate. This thread is not about us, as I see it, it is about the person asking for specific help.

 

I realize the title of the thread has tripped some triggers. I personally don't read or get involved in threads where the title is clearly something I disagree with or will send me spiraling. The truth is that some people DO reinstate at a smaller dose in order to taper more slowly in the hopes of achieving a better outcome the second try. It has been done successfully. I personally would not feel comfortable telling someone whether they should or shouldn't do this unless they ASKED me that question and even then I would want to know a LOT of information before I could judge another person's decision. I do happen to know more than most about this particular case as we have spoken by phone and in  PMs.  Let's not forget how terribly hard this benzo mess is for us ALL and please show compassion and support. Contention during these trying times is especially hard.

 

Above all else, we are each struggling to survive this mess in the best way we can figure out. That is why we are at BB, is it not?  Here's to healing and a bright, benzo free future, however it is that we obtain it.  ~OneLove~

 

 

[[Bi...]]

I hope.we can all go back to the theme here of being supportive. Everyone's experience is valid and personal to them.

 

The support we have been asked for in this specific thread is stated very clearly by the person who started the thread, in very clear language. It was NOT a "should I or shouldn't I" question. Many people do ask that question and then the "shoulds or shouldn'ts" would be appropriate. This thread is not about us, as I see it, it is about the person asking for specific help.

 

I realize the title of the thread has tripped some triggers. I personally don't read or get involved in threads where the title is clearly something I disagree with or will send me spiraling. The truth is that some people DO reinstate at a smaller dose in order to taper more slowly in the hopes of achieving a better outcome the second try. It has been done successfully. I personally would not feel comfortable telling someone whether they should or shouldn't do this unless they ASKED me that question and even then I would want to know a LOT of information before I could judge another person's decision. I do happen to know more than most about this particular case as we have spoken by phone and in MS. Let's not forget how terribly hard this benzo mess is for us ALL and please show compassion and support. Contention during these trying times is especially hard.

 

Above all else, we are each struggling to survive this mess in the best way we can figure out. That is why we are at BB, is it not?  Here's to healing and a bright, benzo free future, however it is that we obtain it.  ~OneLove~

 

Under BB rules we can't give advice about how to reinstate but only tell our story of how we did it.  Also anyone serious should probably not go back up to the full dose and after half a year off probably does not need to use more than 50% of their old dose.  That makes a nice jumping off point to start a new taper and not be attacked by glutamate storms.

 

Slow taper =  Only tiny storms

 

[[On...]]

I am very anti benzo.  I have suffered and suffered and am still suffering on my taper.

I blew it and C/T'ed from a high dose, that was stupid but I learned much.  From my suffering came the knowledge that GLUTAMATE is very toxic. We should fear glutamate more then benzo's in reality. Benzo's are like a parachute for coming down, being afraid of the benzo's is like cutting the ropes on your parachute since your afraid of the parachute, SPLAT! Not smart.  Been there. 

Gaba storms do not hurt people but glutamate storms sure could.  There is thousands of medical documents online about glutamate toxicity.  Benzo's are probably less toxic than a glutamatergic storm is.  Excitotoxicity is real and I have all the web links.  It's REALLY important to slow taper this junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BENZO'S = bad!

GLUTMIATE = NASTY!!

glutamatergic storm's = Possibly Lethal!!!

 

Your body will tell you how to get through this - We are all different.  If your suffering too much maybe your taper was too fast. I'm pretty sure we can jump just about healed if we taper correctly and that means a long taper especially at the bottom end.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

What Birdman said is the ABSOLUTE truth!  I highly recommend reading up on this subject, especially if you are having bad symptoms. The neural receptor disregulation creates an environment.for opportunistic glutamate hyper excitability and it is this process that causes so much damage. I follow the GARD diet.to avoid this and highly recommend it. I also recommend being careful about glutamate in your personal.care.products like shampoo, soaps, lotions, etc. It's even loaded in baby foods and shampoos, etc. Heads up;be aware. Protect your CNS!

[[Bi...]]

I am very anti benzo.  I have suffered and suffered and am still suffering on my taper.

I blew it and C/T'ed from a high dose, that was stupid but I learned much.  From my suffering came the knowledge that GLUTAMATE is very toxic. We should fear glutamate more then benzo's in reality. Benzo's are like a parachute for coming down, being afraid of the benzo's is like cutting the ropes on your parachute since your afraid of the parachute, SPLAT! Not smart.  Been there. 

Gaba storms do not hurt people but glutamate storms sure could.  There is thousands of medical documents online about glutamate toxicity.  Benzo's are probably less toxic than a glutamatergic storm is.  Excitotoxicity is real and I have all the web links.  It's REALLY important to slow taper this junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BENZO'S = bad!

GLUTMIATE = NASTY!!

glutamatergic storm's = Possibly Lethal!!!

 

Your body will tell you how to get through this - We are all different.  If your suffering too much maybe your taper was too fast. I'm pretty sure we can jump just about healed if we taper correctly and that means a long taper especially at the bottom end.

 

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

What Birdman said is the ABSOLUTE truth!  I highly recommend reading up on this subject, especially if you are having bad symptoms. The neural receptor disregulation creates an environment.for opportunistic glutamate hyper excitability and it is this process that causes so much damage. I follow the GARD diet.to avoid this and highly recommend it. I also recommend being careful about glutamate in your personal.care.products like shampoo, soaps, lotions, etc. It's even loaded in baby foods and shampoos, etc. Heads up;be aware. Protect your CNS!

[[Gu...]]

Geez,

 

Just checked back on and found this forum has more factions than Northern Ireland.

 

I'll repeat once again; I'm not pro benzo and I'm certainly not telling everyone to reinstate!

 

The truth has to be acknowledged whether its 'negative' or not and that is simply that not everyone is capable of living happily benzo free after having their brain chemistry and nervous systems destroyed by these poisons.

 

If this was a stroke forum, and long term benzo use constitutes a chemical stroke, it would be acknowledged that some people can make a full recovery afterwards but others will be forever impaired to various degrees. Hopefully not many of us will fall into this category but invariably some will.

 

Whats the point of deluding them?

 

If I'm in that unfortunate category I would probably need to stay on benzo's just to maintain a basic quality of life. Its preferable to live benzo free but not possible for all of us.

 

In that case staying off benzo's may do more harm than good and such people will eventually be driven to suicide. They will get sick of hearing 'Time, time, time is all you need. Don't worry you gonna be much better than you ever were before benzo's, etc' LIKE A BROKEN RECORD.

 

Just be honest. People should know that after a long addiction they may recover fully but they may not. If not they won't appreciate being deceived.

 

I really wish everyone the best. If your suffering, miserable and in mental and physical anguish that leaves your life not even worth living a year or more after ceasing benzo's then keep going if you can bear it.

 

If not then why is even mentioning reinstatement arousing such vitriol? It might be necessary in the worst case scenario to regain some quality of life for these poor people.

[[Gu...]]

Btw I've only been off benzo's for 4 months but I really feel that I won't recover from this. Its not my benzo brain deceiving me, its brain damage. I'll give it a year but I have no confidence at all in improving. There's been no improvement since I jumped, quite the the opposite, and I 'feel'' permanently damaged.

 

If I'm getting worse after a year off and still fighting against the tide, please tell me to reinstate for life to regain some quality of life.

I'd appreciate the honesty.

Thankyou.

[[ba...]]

Yes! 

 

No!

 

I'm not sure!

 

 

 

[[Mo...]]

Btw I've only been off benzo's for 4 months but I really feel that I won't recover from this. Its not my benzo brain deceiving me, its brain damage. I'll give it a year but I have no confidence at all in improving. There's been no improvement since I jumped, quite the the opposite, and I 'feel'' permanently damaged.

 

If I'm getting worse after a year off and still fighting against the tide, please tell me to reinstate for life to regain some quality of life.

I'd appreciate the honesty.

Thankyou.

 

according to dr. pittman's study and Colin the average recovery time is 14 months.

the feeling ''i won't recover from this '' is a common wd sx.

so its far too early for you to judge. you should try and be less impatient Gussy ,

i know its hard.

people who are on benzos for life end up with a lot of health problems and doctors

are not aware that its due to Benzos. believe me because i know it.

[Guest [...]]

people who are on benzos for life end up with a lot of health problems and doctors

are not aware that its due to Benzos. believe me because i know it.

 

How do you 'know it'? Can you provide links to medical scientific studies which show this?

[[Sm...]]

I am very anti benzo.  I have suffered and suffered and am still suffering on my taper.

I blew it and C/T'ed from a high dose, that was stupid but I learned much.  From my suffering came the knowledge that GLUTAMATE is very toxic. We should fear glutamate more then benzo's in reality. Benzo's are like a parachute for coming down, being afraid of the benzo's is like cutting the ropes on your parachute since your afraid of the parachute, SPLAT! Not smart.  Been there. 

Gaba storms do not hurt people but glutamate storms sure could.  There is thousands of medical documents online about glutamate toxicity.  Benzo's are probably less toxic than a glutamatergic storm is.  Excitotoxicity is real and I have all the web links.  It's REALLY important to slow taper this junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BENZO'S = bad!

GLUTMIATE = NASTY!!

glutamatergic storm's = Possibly Lethal!!!

 

Your body will tell you how to get through this - We are all different.  If your suffering too much maybe your taper was too fast. I'm pretty sure we can jump just about healed if we taper correctly and that means a long taper especially at the bottom end.

 

Agree 100%