How do I reinstate?

[[...]]

You cam not reinstate during acute withdrawal, it should be later when symptoms have slowed. Reinststing revs up sxs.

.

 

 

[[In...]]

You cam not reinstate during acute withdrawal, it should be later when symptoms have slowed. Reinststing revs up sxs.

.

 

But if you've made it out of acute w/d then you're probably no longer entertaining the idea of reinstating as the worst is behind you.

 

I'm not advising for or against reinstating with intent to taper off slowly. Some of the opinions here in favor of staying on for life are flawed in my opinion. Nobody is "better off" on benzos for life. Long term, it is poison to every human body. Some people tolerate the poison better than others. Those of us here at BB do not tolerate it as well, that's why we are here. Reinstating for life might feel like you are "better off" because you potentially avoid 2,3,4 years of suffering in w/d leading to recovery, in more extreme cases. What happens 1,2,5,10 years from now when horrible tolerance or kindling issues arise? An even more brutal w/d awaits potentially. For those of us under a year off benzos we have no idea how long it will take to heal, so it is only speculation. There is no evidence that we cannot heal at under a year off, because we haven't given ourselves a fair chance at normal healing time. We can read in the success stories time and time and time again of people who had little or no hope at 12 months only to be recovered somewhere along the way to 24 months.

 

Is there one person on BB who is still in terrible acute w/d or worse at 2 or 3 years off? If they are suffering so badly that far out many times there ends up being an underlying condition like Lyme or CFS, etc.... Doesn't everyone else, overall, improve over time? How many hundreds and hundreds of people were still suffering at 1 year, but still were noticing overall improvement from month 2 to month 12?

 

We need to do our time in order to recover. It's not fair, but that's how it is. Nobody can change it. You either accept you are going to have w/d and go through it, even if it ruins you life for awhile, or go back on for life and deal with potentially worse consequences in the future. Yes, most of us were functioning better for a time on benzos! But over time things were getting worse, or we needed to take more, or they turned on us. Yes, of course we are going to function worse when we stop taking benzos! That is to be expected!

 

Most of the above was not directed at you IslandGirl. I'm sorry you are suffering and hope you can find some relief somehow. If it involves reinstating to stabalize, then that's what it takes! I'm sorry I've gone off into a rant on your thread IslandGirl. Some of the negative doomsday "benzos4life" stuff pokes at me like a stick in the eye  I think a plan to reinstate and taper slowly and safely is entirely reasonable.

[[zi...]]

Hello IG! I'm so sorry you are going through a tough time. I understand the desire to re-instate, I truly do. Everyone has different thresholds and only you know what yours is. I just want to share my story with you in hopes it may help.

 

I also took valium, 10 mg (or more if 10mg didn't work) for sleep. Also only at night. I got very sick taking the pills after a couple years and I went c/t. I was sick for a long time, acute was miserable of course but the worst for me was the 9th through 11th month. I was just nuts during that time! Slowly after the 11th month I started to see a little improvement. As the months went on I continued to improve, it might be little things like my hands stopped sweating all the time or it might be something major like sleeping normally again but things kept getting better. I did do some things which I felt really helped me supplement wise. Magnesium Calm really made a difference in sleep, muscle cramping, lowering anxiety. Zinc also helped as did Vit C (I use powdered Truly Natural Vit. C) I didn't add them all at once but one thing at a time at very low doses. Eating fish twice a week also seemed to be beneficial and oddly enough, going to work every day though it was pure torture at the time. I'm not ready to write a success story yet but I don't think it's too far away! I don't write this to influence you in any way, just to let you know that this was my experience and a few of the things that helped me though it. Best wishes to you! Zippy

[[Gu...]]

Innadaze,

 

That was a great post. I don't know how you manage to stay so upbeat and optimistic through all this. Things have been very rough for me mate but I won't go into it other than to say suicide seems an option.

 

I'm not sure about your opinion that 'no one is better off on benzo's long term', however. Of course for many people on BB, thats what they want to hear. It doesn't reflect reality though. I've read about and talked to many long term users who are doing just great and have been on for 20-30 years or more. They've all tried to get off benzo's at various points and suffered so excruciatingly, for so long (sound familiar), that they went back on and learned their lesson.

 

I admire your resolve and passion but it seems cruel in a way to delude people that improvement is inevitable if they stay off benzo's long enough. Its just not true for all.

 

Others here, like Morechocolate and Nathan didn't like what I had to say and called it 'uneducated'. Its funny though. Had I told them what they wanted to hear, regardless of its validity, I would've been very educated indeed.

 

I haven't reinstated yet because I want to exhaust all other options first. Its inevitable though.

[Guest [...]]

Others here, like Morechocolate and Nathan didn't like what I had to say and called it 'uneducated'. Its funny though. Had I told them what they wanted to hear, regardless of its validity, I would've been very educated indeed.

 

Gussy88: If there is one strength you have it is the patience of a saint!  I only wish I had your delightful restraint.

 

I am hating that you are suffering so much and just want to convey my best wishes to you.

 

IslandGirl: I read the beginning of this thread last night and was impressed with the kindness and support being displayed. Whatever your decision may be, I hope you will get support here and in your real life.

 

Xana

[[Is...]]

Hi all,

 

Thank you so much for all the support. I did not realize this thread would get a little heated. I know this is a controversial topic.

 

More of my story and why I am scared to reinstate. I was on valium for 18 years to sleep. I have been fighting migraines for 18 years. No one ever (and I saw many dr) related the migraines with valium. I could not get off couch for last 10yrs, sever pain and the right side of my body would not move and my right eye would not open. Many neurologist and dr and no one had a clue. I thought I was dieing and the only thing left was to stop taking valium. So I ct.after a couple of days in the bathroom I had a window. Everything was better. No migraine, I could see, no pain and I could walk. This was the first time I realized it has been the valium all along. Then I went bad and dnded up in the hospital detix where the put me on a nasty cocktail and I have more sxs than before abd worse.

 

I was dying on the benzo so I know it is not the right thibg ti get back on, but I can nit stand the akathisia. I can't do it. I have never had a window since I got off the valium because of thise jackasses at detox. They hurt me.

 

Thanks for the support and I will keep posting...

[[In...]]

Innadaze,

 

That was a great post. I don't know how you manage to stay so upbeat and optimistic through all this. Things have been very rough for me mate but I won't go into it other than to say suicide seems an option.

 

I'm not sure about your opinion that 'no one is better off on benzo's long term', however. Of course for many people on BB, thats what they want to hear. It doesn't reflect reality though. I've read about and talked to many long term users who are doing just great and have been on for 20-30 years or more. They've all tried to get off benzo's at various points and suffered so excruciatingly, for so long (sound familiar), that they went back on and learned their lesson.

 

I admire your resolve and passion but it seems cruel in a way to delude people that improvement is inevitable if they stay off benzo's long enough. Its just not true for all.

 

Others here, like Morechocolate and Nathan didn't like what I had to say and called it 'uneducated'. Its funny though. Had I told them what they wanted to hear, regardless of its validity, I would've been very educated indeed.

 

I haven't reinstated yet because I want to exhaust all other options first. Its inevitable though.

 

Gussy! I'm glad you had a chance to read what I had to say and thanks for your response. What can I say, some people are able to take benzos for decades with little or no problem. I still think it harms the body and mind even if no ill effects are shown. At any rate, we are more sensitive to benzos and react poorly. You had some trouble with them before attempting to stop and I REALLY reacted poorly to them probably within 1-2 months things were really going wrong looking back.

 

Gussy, many times when I read a message where you state that going back on is inevitable, I want to reach through the screen and shake you by the shoulders and say "You haven't given yourself a fair chance yet!!". It's like if the doctor said it will take 8-10 weeks for the cracked bone in your arm to heal and you're saying at 2 weeks in the cast that it will never heal and you're going to rip the cast off because it is so cumbersome and you could do so much more with your cracked arm without the cast on. But many times we have to spend 1 or 2 years in our "cast" before we know if we can heal, right? I hope you are able to give yourself more time before reinstating, and that you will see some great signs of healing over the 8 months. And I know that 4 months off is still pretty much hell and no way to live your life. I had a terrible wave at 7 months that got me really down. 3 weeks later I'm moving back towards a baseline with less anxiety and heavy DP, and milder breathing stuff. It sucks and still no way to live, but it IS better than month 4. I hope you get to feel that soon. 

 

IslandGirl,

 

You have had so much discomfort and tried so hard with such severe symptoms that a "reset" and slow taper might do you some good, but of course you are well aware that it works differently for everyone. Cannot give any advice on the subject, just support. I hope that either way whatever you decide that you are feeling some relief soon. I will be following your story and sending strength and a big hug you way! 

[[fr...]]

I too have suffered sinus headaches that become migraines as a result of benzos and benzo withdrawal. I have also been very suicidal and totally broken at times. It is in those times that I am tempted to take a rescue dose but I tell myself that doing that will make things far worse and it will. I have kindled twice and this stuff is deadly. When you think about it, there isn't much logic to going back on a drug that causes so many withdrawal sx. The withdrawal sx will go away with time and are not in any way an indication that someone needs to stay on benzos.

[[On...]]

IslandGirl, sending much love. :smitten:

 

When you had your recent 'rescue doses', did they bring you any relief? That might be a good indication of whether a reinstatement would give you relief or not.

 

The earlier post that mentioned success with only a small dose seems positive. I absolutely do believe that stabilizing and then reducing very very slowly in very very small daily increments keeps our healing rate close to our reduction rate.

 

With this method, you take a low dose and then updose (only if necessary) a small amount daily until you reach relief. Then you remain there a short period to allow the blood levels

To become stable. When you are ready (and you might need a bit more time "holding" to be ready as you need sleep, rest, food, balance, and a good reset") then you start reducing only very very VERY small amounts. The goal is to reduce slowly enough that you do not feel significant symptoms. This means your nerves are healing at the same rate as your taper.

 

Bart is a VERY smart and informed Benzo Buddie who did this kind of taper and has just finished his taper and is gloriously SYMPTOM FREE, showing that this does work!!  He had earlier very bad symptoms before he figured this out, with a number of trips to ER. He needed to updose a few times along the way earlier on before he realized that keeping your taper symptom free is what brings successful healing and allows for a decent daily life all along the way.

 

If you go to the Buddie Blog board and look for the thread "diazepam support thread", you will find many there that are doing slow daily micro tapers. They are a GREAT bunch of folks and are quick to answer questions when you are in need. They have been lifesavers for me.

 

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best. I am hoping that you have been off long enough now that only a small dose would be sufficient to stop your terrible suffering. I sure do want to see you find some relief. The state you've been in so long does not seem to be good.

 

And I just have to add this: no way, no how do I believe that ANYONE needs or should be on benzos for life. I can think of only one exception to this: a person who is terminally ill or near end of life due to age and condition.

 

Let us not EVER forget that it is benzo that CAUSED this damage to us and will NEVER cure anything! But a reasonable reinstatement, stabilizing, and then reducing so slowly that it allows you to heal AS you reduce your dose may have hopes of giving you a decent life back. And while you are reducing and healing, you may feel well enough to work on some of your other health issues.

 

God bless you and lead you in a direction of health. 

[[ba...]]

Hi all,

 

Thank you so much for all the support. I did not realize this thread would get a little heated. I know this is a controversial topic.

 

More of my story and why I am scared to reinstate. I was on valium for 18 years to sleep. I have been fighting migraines for 18 years. No one ever (and I saw many dr) related the migraines with valium. I could not get off couch for last 10yrs, sever pain and the right side of my body would not move and my right eye would not open. Many neurologist and dr and no one had a clue. I thought I was dieing and the only thing left was to stop taking valium. So I ct.after a couple of days in the bathroom I had a window. Everything was better. No migraine, I could see, no pain and I could walk. This was the first time I realized it has been the valium all along. Then I went bad and dnded up in the hospital detix where the put me on a nasty cocktail and I have more sxs than before abd worse.

 

I was dying on the benzo so I know it is not the right thibg ti get back on, but I can nit stand the akathisia. I can't do it. I have never had a window since I got off the valium because of thise jackasses at detox. They hurt me.

 

Thanks for the support and I will keep posting...

 

IslandGirl,

 

I'm begging you to please reconsider!  Take the time to look at my signature.  I have been through an absolutely horrific withdrawal that has been every bit as bad as a cold turkey.  I have been bed/ housebound for nearly 4 months.  My husband and son are now my caregivers. 

 

Windows?  I don't even get stabilization with cuts; the monotony of hell continues on and on...

 

I believe my long term use and kindling due to tolerance withdrawal has made my journey especially hellacious,  yet I have NEVER considered reinstatement.  I have yet to read any success stories of those who have reinstated and have been off for a year or two.  Sure, you'll get lots of advice from those who did reinstate, but almost all are still in process.  I think this says a lot. 

 

Please do not make yourself go through this again.  A tough withdrawal can be expected in Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Syndrome. 

 

I want to add that I feel very bad for you right now.  I had to move through tolerance withdrawal and it was horrible.  But you can do this!

 

Hugs! 

 

[[On...]]

Something that would be good to be aware of is Island Girl's particular circumstances.

 

She did NOT taper at ALL and then jump from a too-high end amount, she went cold turkey off 15 msg of Valium after a daily use of 18 years. Her horrible HORRIBLE symptoms are much worse than just the akathesia you read about here. If you want to see a same of just some of her issues, go back and read some of her earlier posts. If it were me, I would not still be alive to be telling the tale.

 

Before we compare her situation to ours, be fully informed.

 

My own personal opinion, based on what I know about IG's situation AND on the preponderance of research I have read, is that there is not a lot of healing going on during a complete and total lack of sleep at ALL for so many prolonged  months, the inability to even sit or lay prone for a few minutes, the vomiting and gastro impairment, the extreme high cortisol levels and what THAT does to the body and mind, other severe neural transmitter deficiencies along with severely impaired receptors.

 

It's really hard to compare this with being bedbound as IG does not even have the comfort of a bed and rest to help in her recovery. It's hard to compare the state of her neural system with a taper and jump from .25 or .065, or .5, or even 5 mgs when she cold turkeyed off 15 mgs after 18 years! 

 

I believe IG needs something to assist in her recovery, I just don't know what that is. I wish her all the best and some well deserved and much needed, vital even, relief.

[[gi...]]

Good job Onelove.

 

Islandgirl. there are 2 buddies that are having or were having similar sx. You may have allready read their post. Posted on July 15 - posted by nicoland and replied by Mairin33. If you haven't contacted them maybe you can.

Waiting sucks. I want a Chrystal ball to tell me how much longer I have to hurt like this. If I find one, I'll pass it around.

[[ba...]]

I understand all of you who are suffering.  So am I.  Benzo rage makes me want to pick a fight.  NOPE!  In the heat of moment, I forget we are all victims of the poison. 

 

I do understand reinstatement for those who have undergone cold turkey or rapid withdrawal.  No one should have to suffer so. 

 

However, many of us who have done "safe and sane" tapers are just as ill as our cold turkey counterparts.  Thus, I will never endorse reinstatement as a viable way to successfully withdraw from a horrible physical dependency. 

 

Reinstatement is a very dangerous game..

 

 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

It is doable.  I was 8 months out and had a mental break.  Came down to taking a bullet or a benzo, simple math,  way A or B and I chose B for benzo (less permanent than the bullet)

 

Got back on the horse with less than half my old dose and now I'm feeling good at only 2.65mg and tapering.  Yes it can work but getting back on will not make it like it used to be, it's just different after c/t and the s/x take's weeks/months to fade but they do.

Reinstating is not the end, not failure, it's a process that some people just have to do based on their s/x and then go on a very slow taper. I am figuring 18 more months of tapering at least. If you go slow enough it's not so bad really. The only s/x I have is tinnitus and it's LOUD.  That will probably stay with you but it will ease up greatly after a while back on.  I disappointed many people here for reinstating but I do not think my death would have been any less disappointing.  As good as I am feeling now reinstating and tapering super slow was the right choice for me. I'm 99% sure I will make it after seeing how a true slow taper works. The more I taper the better I feel, I am amazed actually.

 

[[ba...]]

It is doable.  I was 8 months out and had a mental break.  Came down to taking a bullet or a benzo, simple math,  way A or B and I chose B for benzo (less permanent than the bullet)

 

Got back on the horse with less than half my old dose and now I'm feeling good at only 2.65mg and tapering.  Yes it can work but getting back on will not make it like it used to be, it's just different after c/t and the s/x take's weeks/months to fade but they do.

Reinstating is not the end, not failure, it's a process that some people just have to do based on their s/x and then go on a very slow taper. I am figuring 18 more months of tapering at least. If you go slow enough it's not so bad really. The only s/x I have is tinnitus and it's LOUD.  That will probably stay with you but it will ease up greatly after a while back on.  I disappointed many people here for reinstating but I do not think my death would have been any less disappointing.  As good as I am feeling now reinstating and tapering super slow was the right choice for me. I'm 99% sure I will make it after seeing how a true slow taper works. The more I taper the better I feel, I am amazed actually.

 

Birdman,

 

I wish you great healing.  I know you made the right choice for you.  I do know about the mental breaks and it ain't fun.  But all of us, and I mean all, will get through this!

 

[[Bi...]]

It is doable.  I was 8 months out and had a mental break.  Came down to taking a bullet or a benzo, simple math,  way A or B and I chose B for benzo (less permanent than the bullet)

 

Got back on the horse with less than half my old dose and now I'm feeling good at only 2.65mg and tapering.  Yes it can work but getting back on will not make it like it used to be, it's just different after c/t and the s/x take's weeks/months to fade but they do.

Reinstating is not the end, not failure, it's a process that some people just have to do based on their s/x and then go on a very slow taper. I am figuring 18 more months of tapering at least. If you go slow enough it's not so bad really. The only s/x I have is tinnitus and it's LOUD.  That will probably stay with you but it will ease up greatly after a while back on.  I disappointed many people here for reinstating but I do not think my death would have been any less disappointing.  As good as I am feeling now reinstating and tapering super slow was the right choice for me. I'm 99% sure I will make it after seeing how a true slow taper works. The more I taper the better I feel, I am amazed actually.

 

Birdman,

 

I wish you great healing.  I know you made the right choice for you.  I do know about the mental breaks and it ain't fun.  But all of us, and I mean all, will get through this!

 

 

Thanks babyrex

 

Time is the great healer, you are right

[[ba...]]

[[sp...]]

I still think it harms the body and mind even if no ill effects are shown

 

Invariably, ill effects are shown. Populations who have been on benzos for 2-3 decades show cognitive deficits that can reliably be detected, both through physical imaging (MRI/fMRI) and through interactive testing which invariably shows short term memory and coordination which is below the scores of matched controls.

 

If people want to take benzos forever, that's their concern. If a particular person thinks that they are better off on benzos than not, that is also their concern. I think it's more or less indisputable that such behavior has consequences, though.

[[fr...]]

I still think it harms the body and mind even if no ill effects are shown

 

Invariably, ill effects are shown. Populations who have been on benzos for 2-3 decades show cognitive deficits that can reliably be detected, both through physical imaging (MRI/fMRI) and through interactive testing which invariably shows short term memory and coordination which is below the scores of matched controls.

 

If people want to take benzos forever, that's their concern. If a particular person thinks that they are better off on benzos than not, that is also their concern. I think it's more or less indisputable that such behavior has consequences, though.

 

Thanks for the info.

[Guest [...]]

I still think it harms the body and mind even if no ill effects are shown

 

Invariably, ill effects are shown. Populations who have been on benzos for 2-3 decades show cognitive deficits that can reliably be detected, both through physical imaging (MRI/fMRI) and through interactive testing which invariably shows short term memory and coordination which is below the scores of matched controls.

 

If people want to take benzos forever, that's their concern. If a particular person thinks that they are better off on benzos than not, that is also their concern. I think it's more or less indisputable that such behavior has consequences, though.

 

I intend to stop benzos. That said, it terms of the "consequences" of long term use, whilst cognitive decline does seem to be inevitable. Perhaps this is a trade lots of people would prepared to make though in terms of quality of life whilst on the drug. Yes, they might not end up being Mensa candidates, but at least benzos have given them 2 -3 decades of freedom from anxiety that might otherwise of stopped them from ever leaving the house.

[Guest [...]]

Populations who have been on benzos for 2-3 decades show cognitive deficits that can reliably be detected, both through physical imaging (MRI/fMRI) and through interactive testing which invariably shows short term memory and coordination which is below the scores of matched controls.

 

This is interesting, Spengler. Could you give me the link from where you read about this so I can explore it in detail and look at the studies performed please?

 

Were the controls people who had never taken any mind altering drugs? It would be interesting to see a comparison including people who have withdrawn from the drugs as well, to see if cognitive abilities return to a pre drug state. Though I guess this would not really be possible to quantify as a longitudinal study involving people prior to usage would not be able to be done.

 

I wonder what a 'matched control' is. As people all have different levels of intelligence and cognitive ability, it would seem impossible to do this. However I am not a medical researcher, so what would I know? 

 

Thanks.

[Guest [...]]

Reading online, I've only ever been aware of Lader's study in the early 80's that should some possible evidence of a link between chronic benzo use and what I think he called "brain atrophy", as in, a couple of areas of the brain in a few patients showing decreases in "normal" volume.

 

But the research proposal made by Ashton on the basis of these findings to use more sophisticated imaging, as well as further cognitive tests in proper randomised controlled trials was never granted.

 

So unless I've somehow missed a large chunk of information after some prolific Google searching, no imagining studies have been done, let alone ones involving controls, showing either changes in neurological function or structural changes in the brain that can be demonstrated to have a direct causal link to benzo use.

 

Studies should be provided to support statement's such a spengler's. It seems fair if we going to be telling be they essentially could or will have brain damage.

[[sp...]]

I too am considering reinstatement and exactly how to go about it. Off for just over 4 months and too sick and non functional to take it any more. However I really have done enough research to suggest that some people will need to reinstate for life. Coming off benzo's is just not possible for everyone. Some will be so sick for years, possibily the rest of their lives. If your still sick after that long surely its time to realize you are one of those that needs to be on benzo's for life.

 

Gussy, you've only been off benzos for four months. Everything you've experienced is, unfortunately, par for the course. Your 'research' contradicts a wealth of peer reviewed scientific literature.

 

I know that you're in a really dark place, and I have empathy because I've been there, I know how miserable it is, and I know how impossible the whole idea of ever being 'better' seems. That's withdrawal - that's how it works.

IG, the do gooders here will have you believe that everyone can recover from benzo's but the truth is different, sadly. I've known of many, many people who literally years after ceasing benzo use had to reinstate, for good, because life off benzo's was such a living hell. After reinstating they were suddenly 90% better. I

Your constant hand waves and references to these "many people" are annoying and inappropriate. As we've seen in this thread, there are some number of people who try to reinstate and end up worse off, an idea which you don't even pay lip-service to in your pro-drug spiel.

 

If you want to go back on benzos, Gussy, by all means, do -- but the information you're trying to rely to others is extremely controversial, inflammatory, and I believe dangerous. I am not acting in a capacity as a moderator to tell you that you're breaking rules. I am writing as a person who thinks you've got a head full of wrong ideas, and I will patiently and firmly restate that as many times as I need to.

[[Fo...]]

Thank you spengler! 

[[Ri...]]

Here's our rules regarding this:

 

Athough we are not "an anti-benzo website", we are dedicated to help those who wish to quit benzodiazepines. We therefore require that you do not promote the use of benzodiazepines within our community, as this would be contrary to our Mission Statement.

 

 

Gussy - I'm sorry that you are suffering so bad. Your improvement may be right around the corner.

 

This site is dedicated to benzo cessation. Many people are in the period between the end of their taper and healing. 

 

This is a very critical time, and it is when people need support the most.

 

River