Sleep Restriction therapy saved my life. An update from jittery18.

[[ma...]]

Thanks David. It is really so frustrating and you just feel awful the next day. I know sleep restriction worked well for Jittery but I've been holding off on trying it because I was sleeping kind of ok, until this week. I know our emotional state has a lot to do with our sleep. Being relaxed during the day really helps as does exercise. Still I exercised, meditated and drank my veggie juice and listened to relaxing cps and it did nothing for my sleep.

It helps to know we're not alone thru this most frustrating insomnia.

thanks for your comments

[[...]]

Hey David,

 

When I don't sleep I get some wicked headaches.  Muscles and body feel fluish.  Eyes hurt.  I just hurt all over when I don't sleep. 

 

Congratulations on being free from the z's!  I assume you are now off of ambien. 

 

You are correct, we are all different so we have to find what works for us.  I don't follow the sleep restriction exactly, but I do a modified version that seems to work pretty well for me.

 

It just feels awesome to be free!

 

Sending sweet dreams your way.

 

DG

[[Ti...]]

Maltesemom-thought I could find you here. How are you?  Can you please tell me the name of the sleep specialist you saw in  orange county? Would you recommend them? I currently am sleeping but thinking I have developed some sort of sleep apnea. I wake up after 6-7 hours of sleep feeling like I got hit by a truck, achy, eyes hurt, fluish. I am beginning to think I never hit the deep sleep stage and would like a sleep study done. Hope your sleep begins to prove for you soon! I feel totally sleep deprived and like a zombie and I am sleeping-very frustrating!

Thanks,

Tina

[[ma...]]

Hi Tina. I hoped to be gone and no longer needing sleep support, but here I am again. I went to the sleep center at St. Joseph Hospital in Orange. I saw the head of the dept. Dr. Fotinokis, a neurologist but he wanted me to take antidepressants instead of sleeping pills. That made no sense to me since I don't have depression and I want off drugs not more drugs. He also said to get off wine, which I've done. Personally I don't think it helped me at all.

There is a woman in Irvine that is a sleep psychologist. I found her online and I would go to her it I was looking for someone now. She is a younger Asian woman. Sorry I can't remember her name but I think you can find her online under sleep psychologist. I doubt if she takes insurance but you can ask. Jittery used a sleep psychologist and it really helped her. she is the one who told me to look for a sleep psychologist. Many of the sleep centers don't really specialize in insomnia, but in sleep apnea. If that is your problem, or breathing issues then St. Joseph might work for you.

Let me know how it goes. Didn't you say you had an apt with a Dr. in Aug? Who is that one?

Good luck. I hope they can help you.

Oh, they didn't do a sleep study on me. Said they don't normally do it for insomnia because most insomniacs can't sleep in their own bed, let alone in an empty building with a bunch of wires hooked up to you. I know I would not have slept at all, once off my sleeping pills.

[[Ti...]]

Hi maltesemom. Dr. F is actually who I have an appt. with. I actually do want a sleep study done since my problem isn't currently insomnia-it is lack of refreshing/deep sleep. How was his bedside manner if you don't mind my asking? The last thing I want is a dismissive doctor who pushes drugs. I hope this is not against forum rules??  If pm were working I could've pm'd you. I just wnt to see someone who will take me seriously and not label me as "drug dependent."  Ahhhhh!

 

So sorry you are still struggling with insomnia. hope it resolves soon for you.

 

Hugs,

Tina

[[ma...]]

Hi Tina. He was nice and if your problem may be sleep apnea, you may like him. I think they are just not really oriented to insomnia and want to push drugs. (That is what traditional doctors do.) He knew I wanted off sleeping pills but thought an antidepressant would be helpful. As a person having completed a lengthy withdrawal from drugs, that is the last thing I wanted. It was bad enuf taking drugs at nite for sleep. I sure don't want something during the day when my problem is sleep at nite.

I would keep the appointment and I think you will like him. It is just a question of whether he can help you. He really couldn't help my insomnia tho he did offer some information on sleep restriction. His priority was getting off wine and mine was getting off the meds. I did both, but now can't sleep. I am hopeful tho that eventually sleep will come. Maybe this is just a short term cyclical problem. I hope so.

Dr. F did not offer a sleep study for my problem and wanted me to consider sleep apnea, but I just don't have those symptoms. I think I saw him maybe twice or 3 times.

Good luck. Let me know how it works out for you.

[[pr...]]

Maltesemom,  Yeah it sure helps me to know I am not alone.  When I go to bed, I can relax for maybe 20 minutes and then my pain starts to escalate. And then my anxiety starts to escalate too.  Does this happen to you or any one you know?

 

I hesitate to post my symptoms here because in this state of mind, heck, reading about a symptom may be causing for me and maybe some one else.

 

Hoping you and I have a recovery soon.  I know the day is better when I sleep.  Sleep well Maltesemom.

 

 

God Bless You,

 

David

[[ma...]]

Greetings all. I slept last nite, thanks to unisom. Even with it I still woke up 3 times and had trouble getting to sleep. I must be in a really bad place for sleep right now. I'm wondering if my bed is bothering me. I have had neck and back pain for the last three days and I never have this. Went to chiropractor and he said my alignment is good.

Will maybe have beer tonite(had to give up wine) so we'll see if that helps or hinders sleep.

I normally don't have pain at nite but I can surely see how that would contribute to poor sleep. Sorry for those of you in pain

[[Me...]]

I am sorry about the neck and back pain Maltese.  I get it when I have had a few nights of total insomnia and I put it down to the continual tossing and turning.  I am pleased you did get some sleep though even if you had to take some unisom.  The second night that I took my herbal mix was also very hit and miss - kept waking up and a stuggle to go back to sleep.  Everything I use works for such a short while and then I seem to get tolerant to it.  Tonight I am going to use 5-HTP and Tryptophan.

 

Praying4Hope I am thinking of you too and wish you painless, restful sleep.

[[ra...]]

Hello all and Maltesemom, I registered specifically for this post!

 

I am on day 20 of sleep restriction after seeing a sleep specialist. It's been brutal all out insomnia and one of my main problems has been neck pain before going into it. I've had trouble sleeping since December, neck pain started a month after and persists to this day while the insomnia has spiraled out of control. I've had multiple MRI's, CT Scans, and even a spinal tap... all is clear. I also get pain in my upper back, arms, and hands. I'm in my 20s so it's ridiculous, but have been told it's associated with months of insomnia so the body isn't healing right. I believe it and have been working out best I can building strength through walking 3 miles in the sun and doing light lifting at home... slowly the pain is diminishing (on a weekly basis). I say walking in the sun because of the natural Vitamin D. Blood tests showed I was so deficient in Vitamin D I was put on 50,000 IU 2x weekly for a month. It's natural in our bodies, and when it's low it can cause or exaggerate pain and stiffness in our muscles. Are you getting plenty of sun? It's also great for your body's rhythm.

 

I also have been going to acupuncture for pain/insomnia the past 5 weeks. It has really helped along with a better diet and being honest with myself. I have all out insomnia but am off all medication right now trying to keep positive while I zombie walk through the day. Along with the sleeping medication, I was on a beta blocker, headache meds, etc and have been having withdrawal from them the past week or so since stopping it all. 

 

If you're having neck pain and don't have a condition, ask your doctor if it can be attributed to your insomnia. I bought all brand new pillows, a bunch of OTC pain relief pads and Bengay, and a neck brace for $10 on amazon. In fact, I'm wearing the brace right now because the pressure seems to really relieve the pain!

 

My best experience so far has been with 5-HTP, SleepyTime tea, and an active day (which is incredibly hard with insomnia and pain). Make sure you try to keep your pain in check because it's a vicious cycle: can't sleep so I'm in pain... I'm in pain so I can't sleep... My doctor wants me sleeping before addressing the pain with stronger medication and while I was mad at first, I'm thankful I haven't started doing the pain+sleeping pill mess.... yet.

 

I also suggest visiting a local herbalist or apothecary. The one I saw made me a special tincture for sleep and pain for $16 and while it's not as strong as a pharmaceutical, it's natural and made specifically for you based on your symptoms, so no side effects unless allergic. After taking it the first night, it was the first time I yawned, or noticed I yawned, in months. It doesn't knock me out, in fact nothing does and I pass out from exhaustion (sleep restriction fun), but it did help me make progress. I also meditate and take supergreens, so I think to tackle withdrawal and return to natural sleep you have to hit it from every angle: Diet, exercise, attitude, sleep hygiene, and a commitment to yourself!

 

Overall, sleep restriction has helped some things, but done nothing for others. Three weeks in and I am really struggling, but don't have much else choice I guess?

[[ma...]]

oh my goodness rain81. I'm sorry you are struggling so, but I totally relate...tho my pain has only been recent. I don't think it's from lack of sleep, but you never know. I'm glad you are trying the sleep restriction because it really helps a lot of people. I still haven't tried it yet. Last week I just felt I was too exhausted to do it. Last nite I slept better with tryptophan and melatonin...not great, but better. I've tried lots of herbals, best one should have been passionflower, hops and skullcap. Those are the ones judged to be most helpful for sleep, but they really didn't help me.

This insomnia is just miserable but some people have conquered it with time. I hope that applies to us too eventually. Sometimes Nightly Night tea helps, others not so much. Now I am dealing with back pain which I have never had before and don't know why. It sure doesn't help sleep, but at least it feels better lying down....as long as I don't turn over, then it hurts.

Gotta run. Keep with the sleep restriction, doing it properly. It really cured Jittery and hopefully you too!

[[...]]

hello Rain81!  Glad to see someone else is trying this. 

 

Oh, the pain.  I hurt my back a couple of weeks ago and I have been in pain ever since.  It sucks.  I am such an active person and have had to slow down a bit.  I have never thought about the pains in my body being specifically related to insomnia, but it makes sense.  If you don't sleep your body doesn't have a chance to heal overnight.  If my pain persists I am going to have to go see someone.  I may try massage first.  IDK.  It just feels really deep.

 

Keep us posted on the sleep restriction.

 

DG

[[pr...]]

rain81,

 

Hi.  Coming of my meds I started developing pain and sought chiropractic help for the first time in my life.  He said I had a reversed cervical curve. (neck)  He started the adjustments and my neck felt like it was solid steel.  I was in a constant state of intense stiff pain.  (non burning pain)  Just the worst stiff neck imaginable.  It lasted for me 2-3 months.  It is now GONE.  My neck is still somewhat stiff.  I stretch it but the stretch holds for only a brief time.  But it does relieve some of the tension/stiffness. 

while I had the pain, stretching  and tensing the muscles in my neck very briefly but painfully helped. 

 

At the time, I was confused as to weather the pain was from lorazepam withdrawal or chiropractic adjustment.  Looking back I am glad I was confused but now believe wholeheartedly that it was due to lorazepam withdrawal.  I think It will go away for you,  you like I may a different kind of pain on the way.  I am praying you don't but if you do, know you are not the first, the last or the only one going through this horrible ordeal.

 

Currently my chief complaints are sciatica type pain in my right buttock and leg, and  burning pain in my lower back and lower and upper extremities,;  as well as pretty bad insomnia.

 

I totally agree with the catch 22 situation explained in the previous post..."You can't sleep so you can't heal; you can't heal so you can sleep".

 

I'm sending some prayers your way for healing in spite of it all.  Take care.

 

God Bless You,

 

David

[[ra...]]

Thank you all for the replies, hope there are some improvements out there? I have positives to share today:

 

I have done 28 days of sleep restriction and between now and my last post (20-25 days of it) I have finally slayed the beast, insomnia. 

 

I still do not go to bed until 11 pm or midnight, but I can fall asleep unaided by meds and stay asleep about 4 hours before waking for a bit and falling back to sleep. I'll take that! I see my sleep doctor next week and it'll be interesting to see what she says as I wonder if I have to slowly come off sleep restriction to go to bed earlier, or what. I will post updates for those who may benefit from sleep restriction. It really is as brutal as people say, but after 3 weeks of struggling and sometimes cheating out of exhaustion/desperation, I finally nailed it and have slept at least 4-5 hours a night for about a week now. I've noticed a cross-benefit from it as well, as my will is so much stronger as a result. So if you are out there trying to do sleep restriction and are as frustrated as I was, please give it a few weeks. I didn't want to either, but the reward is sooooooo worth it. You owe it to yourself, you owe yourself life!

 

Now to conquer the neck/upper body/hand pain. I'm hoping as I sleep more now it'll slowly diminish over time with exercise on top of it.

 

Praying4Hope, thank you for sharing your experience. I described my pains similar to yours as it is never burning or sharp, but just nagging, constantly stiff, and deep within. My physical therapist said she could feel it deep too. I'm on month 5 with the pain so hopefully it just goes away too as my body settles back in? The best luck I've had is acupuncture and I will continue to use it, next step would be the chiropractor

[[pr...]]

Rain81,

 

Congratulations.  That is a big one.  I used to always wake up once a night and go right back to sleep.  That was before meds.  Soon after meds, I slept through the night.  Later, well the sleep wasn't so good.  Now I am in your boat.  I have tried the sleep restriction and it for me after a few days was hell and more so but it did give me a nights sleep once.  I think it is just thinking and wondering how the body and brain can exist on only 1 hours sleep per night.  The freaking thought o fit scares me and  concerns me greatly.

 

If some one were to say,  "Well, Dave, it's like this.  The body is like some amazing machine and if you have to do this you have to do this. 

It is going to hurt like hell for some time and man are you  going to feel like you are going crazy and like you are the only one and that you need meds and a hospital.  But Dave, I'm telling ya.  I don't know how we can do this but we do".  It might help a little.

 

Thanks for being a pioneer and a trail blazer on this road to hell.

 

Congratulations,  God Bless You,

 

David

 

[[ma...]]

rain81 can you give us some details about your sleep restriction? What time did you go to bed when you started? What was your wake up time? How many times a nite did you get up? I worry that once I'm up, I wake myself even more and am less likely to go to sleep than if I stay in bed relaxing. I think you are supposed to get up again if you don't go to sleep in 20 min. I have a feeling I'll just be getting up all nite and then time to get up in the morning.

How long did it take before you started sleeping? What did you do when you got up? How long did you stay up until trying again? Do you think having a DR for support made a difference? Could you have done it on your own? Did you use a sleep psychologist? The sleep center I went to explained sleep restriction but not in any detail or setting up a program specifically. He was a neurologist and wanted me to take antidepressants....tho I wasn't depressed.

Congratulations on conquering this horrible insomnia. Were you a terrible sleeper prior to benzos? I was and am again. Thanks for your help.

[[Mi...]]

Can I ask a quick question? If I have insomnia one night and only get 2 hours of sleep, and in the middle of the afternoon start to feel really sleepy. Should I try to get as much sleep as I can in this time, or should I hold back, even if I'm feeling really tired, so that I don't prevent my circadian rhythm from resetting?

 

Edit: scratch that. I  just read up on Sleep Restriction, and it advised to take no naps during the day.

[[ra...]]

rain81 can you give us some details about your sleep restriction? What time did you go to bed when you started? What was your wake up time? How many times a nite did you get up? I worry that once I'm up, I wake myself even more and am less likely to go to sleep than if I stay in bed relaxing. I think you are supposed to get up again if you don't go to sleep in 20 min. I have a feeling I'll just be getting up all nite and then time to get up in the morning.

How long did it take before you started sleeping? What did you do when you got up? How long did you stay up until trying again? Do you think having a DR for support made a difference? Could you have done it on your own? Did you use a sleep psychologist? The sleep center I went to explained sleep restriction but not in any detail or setting up a program specifically. He was a neurologist and wanted me to take antidepressants....tho I wasn't depressed.

Congratulations on conquering this horrible insomnia. Were you a terrible sleeper prior to benzos? I was and am again. Thanks for your help.

 

Sorry for the delayed response, I have not been able to respond sooner. Here is an answer to all your questions:

 

I visited my sleep doctor 5/1 and started that night. My bedtime is 12 midnight and wake time is 7 am.. the first three weeks were torture. I was told to stay in bed for at least 30 mins-45 mins and if I did not fall asleep then to go get up, stay in low light (so the eyes don't adjust... no bright light until the morning sun) and do something boring. More mental torture because who wants to do something boring when all they can think about is how they want to sleep and why they cannot?

 

I kept (and still keep) logs and the beginning three weeks I'd get up 3-4 or 5-6 times a night. I could not fall asleep until about 4 or 5 am from pure exhaustion. Give yourself more than 20 minutes, even before insomnia how many of us fall asleep in 20 mins?

 

I had a major breakthrough during the 3rd week, around 5/25. I kept making the mistake early on to take a sleeping aid (Unisom, teas, 5-HTP, natural stuff not rx) around 1:30 or 2:30 because I'd freak and think it wasn't working. Bad idea and in hindsight that just held back my progress. I do not think having my doctor helped because I was mad at her initially for putting me on sleep restriction, I wanted the magic solution just like all of us. I didn't want to work. In my experience, you have to be your own support because it's your own body and mind. I did not see a sleep psychologist though my particular doctor is some kind of medical director and is more along those lines than just a simple sleep doctor. Sleep restriction (as part of cognitive behavioral therapy) is the first defense against chronic insomnia. My next step was different medication (hell no). I saw my sleep doctor for a follow up last week and was told to still keep on restriction for several weeks or months until I get up to at least 6-7 hours. It is my understanding that sleep restriction is meant to do away with all medication having anything to do with sleep and insomnia. This includes anti-depressants though those types of medications often cross over with sleep issues and was actually told that would be my next treatment option if I didn't stick with sleep restriction.

 

I was not a terrible sleeper before insomnia. 7-10 hours all night everynight my whole entire life. My insomnia initially developed after a serious prolonged illness and as result was hopped up on medications including Lunesta and Klon. for sleeplessness. It spiraled out of control, my illness is gone, but the insomnia hovered horribly since january. My biggest advice is to attack it from ALL ANGLES including diet, exercise, and whatever personal spiritual beliefs you may have. Even if you don't have any (and I am not religious nor trying to provoke anyone), the point of saying that is to at the very least trick your mind into letting go of your problems and thinking you are healthy. Your body will eventually respond and that'll really help when it's 2:37 am and you're going crazy from lack of sleep and wondering when it'll ever come. Stay positive and try to come to terms with the fact that these medications are both cures and poisons. To those of us on these forums, the meds have trained our bodies to become horrible sleepers and the length of time it takes to go get back to business may take just as long to undue what has been done. The important thing to remember is to devote yourself to the notion you-need-to-get-some-sleep and remain consistent in whatever methods you are using to get sleep naturally. It takes time!

 

I am of this writing 42 days into sleep restriction and getting 4-6 hours at most, still broken up, but it's a hell of an improvement. I still have bad nights of 1-2 hours but I will not stop until this is behind me. I hope this helps

[[ra...]]

Can I ask a quick question? If I have insomnia one night and only get 2 hours of sleep, and in the middle of the afternoon start to feel really sleepy. Should I try to get as much sleep as I can in this time, or should I hold back, even if I'm feeling really tired, so that I don't prevent my circadian rhythm from resetting?

 

Edit: scratch that. I  just read up on Sleep Restriction, and it advised to take no naps during the day.

 

Mike,

 

Correct, sleep restriction encourages no naps! The method is to develop a set bedtime and waketime no matter how good or bad your night was. The hope is to eventually retrain your body to consolidate sleep during that time and the insomnia. If you take naps or sleep during the day or at other times, the body's clock will have problems resetting and will really through your sleep schedule out of whack! By taking naps you are actually preventing your circadian rhythm from resetting!

[[ma...]]

rain81 thanks for the details. I'm so glad sleep restriction is helping you. As soon as I figure out what is causing my neck problem I am going to try it. I do go to bed at the same time every nite, and do sleep hygiene but I read in bed. It relaxes me tho sleep restriction says not to. I also like to go to bed earlier because it is supposed to be healthier for your body. I don't mind getting up at 6...even 5 is ok, but not anything before that. I just want to uninterrupted sleep. Last nite was pretty good but it took almost 2 hrs to get to sleep.

Thanks so much for the information. I knew 20 min to go to sleep was not enuf for me. i will keep referring back to this thread.

[Guest [...]]

So I started sleep restriction 2 nights ago. I'm supposed to go to bed at 12 and up at 6. First night I passed out at 11 from exhaustion and slept 7  hours straight. Last night, no luck.  The problem is I have so much anxiety towards my bed. It's like the minute I lay down I get anxious. Does anyone else have these problems? Also, what does everyone do to pass the time during the night? I've just been watching TV and heading to bed. How long will this take to work? I'm desperate!

[[ma...]]

yes, we all have that bed anxiety I think. I can't believe your first nite of sleep restriction you slept 7 hrs. That is amazing. Jittery used to say, to keep it dark when you get up. Listen to music or maybe read...nothing stimulating. Then go back to bed 20min to half hr and try again. I still haven't tried it. Still battling with the thyroid issue....still not sleeping. Last nite was horrible, don't know if I slept at all. I am pet sitting during the day and got a 9:30 call to go and pick up the dog. The nite pet sitter was unable to be reached by phone and was not at the home. I'm sure that stimulated me. The owner was on the east coast and very stressed about her dog being alone. She has a Maltese like I do and they are not like regular dogs. They are like babies. Hers is a good dog and adapted well sleeping in his crate next to me. I'm the one wide awake. I even had some wine and it didn't help at all with sleep. This is just so ridiculous after almost 31 months off.

Keep up with sleep restriction. It works well for most people.

[Guest [...]]

So what does everyone do to prepare for bed? I usually watch TV with my husband, but my therapist wants me to read or meditate before.  What is everyone technique?

[Guest [...]]

So the 2nd night didn't go so well. Does this just get worse before it gets better? I'm so desperate for this to work!

[[ih...]]

I am going to go with this. I got to no-dose land via the Cipro route as well. Jittery you have described the sleep dep method very well. I have been aware of it but it just seemed like too much torture. I now realise that if I don't do the hard yards now, this could be much more prolonged, so here goes sleep boot camp.

 

Made myself get up this morning & I feel truly disgusting.

 

Nova, it will take some time for your body to adjust back to its natural rhythms, dpending on how long the problematic sleep pattern has been established. We have to be tough & remember that every day of keeping to a healthy circadian rhythm, we are one day closer to healthy sleep.

 

Meditation & low stimulus activity are ideal before sleep but if you find that too hard right now, maybe try a bath soak with epsom salts which can help with sleep as the magnesium is absorbed more effectively.