Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[2c...]]

Hi everybody,

 

This board has been quiet lately. I hope this means everyone is feeling well enough to do other things and not need the support right now.  I was pleasantly surprised by a 2.5 (I could call it 3) day window from most of Saturday to the end of yesterday.  I slept pretty well, I felt much clearer mentally and my memory was kicking in way more than usual.  I felt like I was starting to be my old self again, or at least I could see my old self making a comeback.  Then I woke up this morning after a rotten night's sleep, foggy, forgetful, and scared/anxious again.  I hate this! I am also grateful for the window, but ... it's a real bummer to be back here again.

 

 

 

 

 

Haimona:

This has been my experience too the last couple of weeks.  Up and then crash.  Hopeful and then frightened. A real rollercoaster ride that exhausts me. I imagine this is many Buddies’ experience. So I suppose this fact means our taper is “normal”. 

 

Sometimes I am up and down in a matter of minutes and then out of the blue I’m calm for a while.  It’s crazy.  I’m guessing this is our brain healing and every time I feel like myself, even if for a few minutes,  I am definitely hopeful! 

 

You’re so close! Hang in there.

 

How’s everybody else doing?

 

2cats

[[Bi...]]

Hi All,

 

It's Thanksgiving tomorrow in the US where I live. I pray that all of us will be blessed with a window of relief.

 

I'm in the final taper countdown! If all goes as expected I will be done in 25 days. I've had a few days in a row with much better sleep, then followed by my typical fractured sleep. I take this as a sign of healing though. Just like the other waves and windows of symptoms. Windows give me hope that I am healing. Waves remind me that I still have more healing to do. Overall though, I am doing So Much Better.

 

I have found incredible relaxation through coherent breathing exercises and mindfulness meditation. It just keeps getting better.

 

Hoping that all of you start feeling better.

 

-bibsjo

[[Ha...]]

Bibsjo,

 

I am so happy for you that you are doing so much better and getting close to the end of your taper! You have done an amazing job getting this far, and give us hope by showing how things can get better.  Wishing you a very happy Thanksgiving and lots of wonderful windows, and like you I wish the same for all of us.

 

Haimona

 

 

[[St...]]

are the pills that dissolve on your tongue a blue colour?

 

If so they are sublinguals, and I don't believe that they are soluble in water.

 

As they dissolve, they go directly into your bloodstream, so you get it quicker.

 

They have been my nemisis, as you it is so hard to cut them and weigh them, as they are so small.

 

WinnieDog

 

Winnie dog.

 

These pills I have are white and hard and aren’t in a individually wrapped pill. They are in a bottle.

 

It’s like they are regular pills but dissolve so fast in water

 

It would be so easy to take half the water, or 1/4 or 1/8, etc.

Strong one

 

[[St...]]

Hi -

 

Maybe someone else can chime in here, but I think it is not recommended to dissolve Ativan tablet in water alone. The dose is not consistent that way or something. I think you need a tiny bit of vodka or propylene glycol. There are quite a few posts with info, but not sure where.

 

I’m not sure whether you should dissolve in water but I have seen you tube videos where they do.

 

This would work so easily.

 

Strongone.

[[St...]]

Thank you Luey, I’ll order what Jim Hawke suggests . I hope using water is ok.

 

Hi Jannalla,

 

I'm glad to hear your plan to order the supplies; it will help you practice and build your confidence.  Sorry I'm repeating myself, but from what I've learned on BBs, Ativan is not soluble in water.  Your dosing amounts would not be uniform if you don't dissolve it first. Jim Hawk gives alternatives to using alcohol as a solvent:

 

1. Use liquid Ativan, Intensol, available by prescription.  It comes as a concentrated solution that needs to be diluted with water to micro taper. No solvent needed.

2. Use propylene glycol as an alternative solvent to using alcohol. 

3. Make a suspension instead of a solution using Ora-Plus.  (Jim Hawk says the downside would be "the medication is not as uniformly distributed as when it was dissolved by a solvent.")

4. Do dry tapering using a scale.

 

I know all these options might seem confusing and difficult to make a decision.  Maybe go back and read both of Jim Hawk's README FIRST sections again and it will help you decide.  I also had to take a lot of time researching the different options, but once I got going with liquid I now find it routine.  Isn't it crazy how so many of are using these sophisticated micro tapering methods that most of our doctors don't even know about? Please let me know how I might be able to help.

 

A warm hug,

 

Luey

 

I found the above doing a search for propylene glycol.  I hope this is helpful.

 

Haimona

 

Thank you haimona. Such good information. Maybe it isn’t dissolved But it looks like it is. I’m glad you can get Lorazapam intensol instead. I’ll try that when I need to. Has anyone used Lorazapam intensol?

 

Thank you

Strong one

[[...]]

Attempting a big cut over the holiday weekend 0.06mg to 0.04mg starting today.  Also cut doses from four a day to just two. I can see the light at the end of this horrible tunnel.  Hope I dont regret my decision haha.  My old friends anxiety and depression may make an appearance.  Goal is to crawl off at 0.01mg

 

How is everyone doing?

[Guest [...]]

Wow, you're almost there JBen!!!

 

I too was a short time user, and didn't know I was in wd until late Sept.

I'm still struggling to get off - so a long way to go.

 

Has anyone ever used Ativan/Lorazepam drops to get off?

 

I found a great compounding pharmacist locally, who said she can do this for me.

She could also make me my sublinguals in any strength I needed etc.

 

I have so many allergies, the liquied Ativan just wasn't going to work for me.

 

So she's going to make be a Ativan solution in Alcohol with propylene glycol.

 

Then I just take a certain amount of drops per day, then when I want to drop, I take less drops.

 

Does this sound like it's going to work?

 

Hope everyone who is celebrating Thanksgiving today is having a great day.

 

Thanks,

WinnieDog

[[po...]]

Hey Luey! We must be on the same wavelength!  I am checking in to see who I know? Haimona and Bibsjo, how it is going? There are some new faces here.

 

Luey and I tapered the whole time together. I can't see my profile, but I wrote I went from 4 mg to .001mg (yes, .001) in 1 yr. 7 weeks and 4 days. I cut all the way with a Gemini-20 scale that weighed to 0.001mg. Luey and I were the HIGH dose-ers here.

 

For me, it took a lot of persistence. I never really lost it, but I did have small setbacks and many lifestyle changes (new job, new move, writing a book, traveling abroad, all significant events that increased my stress and tested my tapering. All I can say, as I look at my records, is that when I got to 0.12mg (not sure why I picked that dose!) I began a micro-cut and really slowed down...and spent 2 mo. tapering to the end. I was so afraid of f....up my taper that was going so well.

 

I took a month off after the Ativan and then began my other Benzo, Xanax. I have gone from 1.0 mg to 0.32 mg in 7 mo. It is an extremely hard drug to taper off at low doses. I cut 2 days ago and will now stop cutting until I return from my 11-day vacation in Zihuatanejo, Mexico as I leave 122/21/. If you recall the movie Shawshank Redemption, then you know where I am going. I promise I will be safe. Our little casita is fairly isolated.

 

Ok. As usual, I just throw it out there. I do miss coming on most nights and rambling and wondered if I helped anyone at all. Maybe I did. Don't forget. Ativan is nothing but POISON someone prescribed to you and put you on and they never told you what a hellish personal journey it would take to get you off. All they knew is what they read in some medical book. Possibly they had the best of intentions. I do not know. But please keep the faith. IT CAN BE DONE. 

 

I am glad I checked in here tonight and I will pray for you all. Good night and until next time. Powerball. 

[[Ha...]]

Hi Powerball,

 

So good to see you and hear an update on how you are doing.  How exciting you are going to Zihuatanejo (Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite movies).  I miss seeing you on here.  Your presence definitely helped me, just your calmly optimistic attitude and seeing you continue to live life on your own terms and get some real joy out of life while going through your taper, were inspiring to me.  I also remember how supportive you always were of everyone in the thick of it here.

 

I am doing okay-ish, continuing to taper.  It seems to be going on forever.  I got a bit of a jolt realizing it's been seven months since you were on here and I still have such a long way to go in my taper, but I know progress is progress.  I just cut again last night and am already jittery today, which surprises me because usually I get a day or two before I notice the cut.  But I did have a 2.5 day window about a week ago, which was a tantalizing glimpse of how things could be (so hard when it ended, though).  That is the first real window I've had since starting the taper, in which I felt pretty mentally clear and slept well (those have been my worst symptoms). 

 

Thanks for stopping back in and checking in, Powerball.

 

How is everyone else doing today?

 

Haimona

[Guest [...]]

Hi Everyone:

 

So I got my liquid ativan from the compounding pharmacy!

 

It's an alcohol and pg liquid.

She made it 0.25mg/0.2ml.

 

She told me that 10 drops equals 0.25 mg.

When I pulled out 0.20 ml, I realized that I didn't know where to syringe to given the stopper (black and white part).

I ended up getting 12 drops out from the 0.20ml, so I don't think I did it correctly.

 

the pharmacist said she did it this way so that I can just take 9 drops, then 8 drops etc.

I guess it could work?

 

For those who are doing liquid, how do you measure your syringe?

 

Any advice welcome, as I've crashed and burned my way through this entire process (and was given versed for a colonoscopy a month ago, so not sure how much that has impacted things).

 

Nice to meet you Powerball!!

Love the name, is it from Billions?

Love that show, wish I could watch TV to finish the new season that's out.

I also love the ocean (from Canada) and miss my yearly trips to Florida or DR, we were going to try Mexico this past March, then covid.

 

Thanks so much!

WinnieDog

[Guest [ba...]]

Winnie - yeah, you can do it that way (10 drops, 9 drops, ...).  At least for a while.  Those will be cut and hold type of cuts since they are fairly large.

 

You could also add 10 drops to 100 ml of water, then remove a little from that 100 ml each day.  You could do much smaller (daily) cuts that way.

 

How did the 12 drops feel to you?  Similar to your old dose?  More?  Less?

[Guest [...]]

Thanks Badsocref

 

The 12 drops were ok!

Didn't feel any different than the sublingual I take.

 

I realized later that I should have practiced with water first - Duh!!

When I did it with water, I could get anywhere from 8-10 drops.

the more I practiced the more I could get the 10 drops.

 

Yes, I realize the size of the drops is quite large!!

This prescription is only for 2 weeks, the dr I found is following me once per week, and then sends in prescription etc.

So I will be able to modify as I go along.

 

the pharmacist can make any dosage I need, they have a biochemist on site, saves me from having to do it in my kitchen!

 

Actually, the pharmacist said she can even make me sublingual pills, she does that for another lady.

 

She was so smart and even called around from Canada to colleagues in the States to get the best option for me, as she knows I have so many allergies.

I sure wish I'd found her in July, she knows that you have to come off these pills slowly, she knew right away, that I was in rebound from crashing in the summer.

 

Hopefully, I will be able to tolerate the liquid for all my doses. I had wanted to try doing a DLMT, but she thought that was a bad idea.

I don't, I think it's a great idea.

 

I'm just taking it these first 2 weeks and see how I do, I'm not sure if I should go for all my dose tonight in liquid form or not.

I also was thinking of splitting up my dose 3 times per day, from the current 2 I do now?

 

Thanks,

WinnieDog

 

[[Li...]]

Hello, WinnieDog.

 

Compounding pharmacists can be valuable allies during withdrawal. It sounds like you’ve found a good one. Well done! 

 

That’s great that your pharmacist can adjust the concentration of your liquid.  As badsocref has noted, 0.25 mg/0.2 mL is a relatively high concentration (1.25 mg per 1 mL).  You might want to consider asking the pharmacist if she could prepare your liquid at a lower concentration.  For example, 0.1 mg per 1 mL (0.1 mg/mL).  Using a 1 mL syringe with 100 graduations, you could measure as little as 0.01 mL of liquid (which would equate to 0.001mg of lorazepam). 

 

Am I understanding you correctly that your pharmacist gave you a syringe to measure your liquid?  If so, there’s no need to count drops.  If you measure 0.2mL of liquid and drink it, you will have ingested 0.25mg of lorazepam.

 

In case you are still looking for information about syringes and how to use them, here are two tutorials:

 

Using Syringes | The Withdrawal Project

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/taper/using-syringes

 

How to Read Syringes: 8 Steps (with Pictures) - wikiHow

https://www.wikihow.com/Read-Syringes

 

 

 

 

[Guest [...]]

Thanks so much Libertas - I'll check out the tutorials and how to use the syringe properly!!

It looks like that should answer a bunch of my questions for me.

 

Yes, it is a strong concentration, but it's only for the 2 weeks, as I adjust to the liquid etc.

 

I'm trying to figure out if I should take my evening does all liquid or not, I guess I'll give it a shot....

 

Then the next thing I have to think about, is if I split my dose up into 3 times per day.

Others seem to have had success with that approach.

 

thanks so much,

WinnieDog

[[Li...]]

You are most welcome, WinnieDog. 

 

Re: your question about taking all of your evening dose in liquid ...

 

Have you made dose changes in the past?  If so, did you notice the change right away or did it take a while?  About how long?  (Lorazepam has a half-life of 10-20 hours.)

 

If it took a while for you to notice the change, you might want to wait a bit before making another change.

 

Re: moving from dosing two times a day to three times a day ...

 

I will defer to members who have experience in tapering lorazepam on this one.  Are you currently experiencing withdrawal symptoms in between doses?

[Guest [...]]

I think I'll try taking the evening dose in liquid form tonight.

 

I'll hold like that for several days to adjust.

 

I know several other members who said that going to 3 times per day evened them out etc.

 

I'm not sure if I'm getting interdose withdrawal or if what I'm experiencing is all just wd from coming down too fast in the summer, I've never really stabilized etc.

 

thanks

[Guest [ba...]]

Use a steady, consistent motion when measuring out your drops.  You want consistent drop sizes.  A little practice is def a good thing.

 

Makes sense to me that 12 drops (20% increase) would match what you were getting using sublinguals.  12 drops might be a good starting point.

[[Ma...]]

Winnie, just want to jump in here on this... I’ve mentioned to you before, but spacing out doses to 3 or 4 times a day was a huge piece for stabilizing in my taper. Ativan’s half-life is so short, which is why people switch to Valium... so if you are going to do a direct taper from Ativan, it may help to do it over more dosing times to avoid interdose withdrawal. It’s totally up to you, but a few buddies suggested this to me when I joined and it was life changing for me.

 

My dosing times were 7am, 3pm, 11pm.

[Guest [...]]

Thanks so much Marwegs!!

 

I think I'll definitely look into dosing 3 times a day!

 

I'm going to do the liquid tonight and then slowly see how I feel.

I don't want to make too many changes at once.

So over the next few days, I'll see how I feel on the liquid and then try and add in that middle of the day dose etc.

 

I'm never up at 7 am lol - well, if I am, I roll over and go back to sleep, certainly never up at 11 pm.

 

So I'd have to do an 8 am, 3 pm and 10 pm, which might work.

 

hug to you and yours!

 

[Guest [...]]

For people on liquid, how long before your body gets used to it?

 

It's day 4, and the last 3 days have been really rough!!

 

I'm trying to tough it out as I know it's the only way off of this poison for me, but it's bad.....too many crazy symptoms to list, basically bedridden etc.

 

I know there is an adjustment period going from the pill to liquid, just want to know how long to hold out etc.

 

Or maybe I should go back to just taking the liquid at noon and keeping the pill at night until I adjust?

 

To top it off, today's my birthday!!! what a shitty way to spend my birthday!!

 

My goal is to be off this crap by my 50th - I'm so determined, but just don't know how to keep going these last few days.

 

thanks,

WinnieDog

[[Gi...]]

For people on liquid, how long before your body gets used to it?

 

It's day 4, and the last 3 days have been really rough!!

 

I'm trying to tough it out as I know it's the only way off of this poison for me, but it's bad.....too many crazy symptoms to list, basically bedridden etc.

 

I know there is an adjustment period going from the pill to liquid, just want to know how long to hold out etc.

 

Or maybe I should go back to just taking the liquid at noon and keeping the pill at night until I adjust?

 

To top it off, today's my birthday!!! what a shitty way to spend my birthday!!

 

My goal is to be off this crap by my 50th - I'm so determined, but just don't know how to keep going these last few days.

 

thanks,

WinnieDog

 

When I switched to liquid it was seamless, no increase in sx.  That is not true of everyone.  I have heard some advise to updose a bit when making the switch to help with any problems with sx.  I think I was just lucky.

 

I always hold as long as it takes.  For me that can be a long time.  Are you making your own liquid from your tablets?  That's what I did.  Hang in there, one day you'll be free of this process.  G

[[Bi...]]

Hi Everyone,

 

So the last week has been intense and I found out a few things about myself.

 

1. I don't do well with changes to my routine (Thanksgiving)

2. I am clearly addicted to sugar

3. I'm addicted to scrolling through bad news on my cell phone.

 

These all blew up on me over the weekend and I entered another wave. I had a sudden vision disruption on Monday morning that required an urgent visit to my Opthamologist who diagnosed it as an "ocular migraine." Impressively she said that it definitely could have been triggered by withdrawal or stress or lack of sleep or caffeine (I can check all four of those boxes). The visual disturbance went away quickly but I am currently extremely light sensitive. I am seeing bright light even when i close my eyes in bed - lovely.

 

All that said, I'm doing OK. I know I'm going to be OK and I accepted the wave. It is not nearly as bad as my severe waves a few months ago. I just dug in deeper on all my worship and meditation and breathing exercises and that definitely helps me deal with the symptoms. I also am on a "fast" from scrolling and that feels really good.

 

I decided to hold on my taper for a bit. I thought I would be done by 12/20, but I am giving up the countdown and not having an agenda. I'm going to keep listening to my body and take really good care of myself.

 

I continue to keep all of you in my prayers for relief of symptoms and 100% recovery!

- Bibsjo

[[Ha...]]

Hi Bibsjo,

 

I'm sorry to hear you are having such a bad wave.  Glad you have come to a place of acceptance, though, and that you took a break from scrolling.  I like the letting go of an agenda, too.  It's so hard to do, isn't it? I had sworn I would be off Ativan for good by the end of this year, but all I can really hope for is to be down to .25 mg by the end of the year, with months of tapering ahead of me, still, probably.  This stuff is so completely awful.

 

I get what you mean about changes to routine, too.  I think with the crazy ups and downs of withdrawal, we all seek as much stability as we can find in the other aspects of our lives. 

 

I'm in a wave, too.  I had hoped, probably stupidly, that maybe I was seeing a pattern where I would get a bit of a window around days 5 and 6 of each cut (because that happened last time), but I actually had the worst fuzziness, brain fog, and general trouble thinking today that I've had in a while.  So now I'm fighting going to dark places where I think the damage is permanent, again.

 

I hope the bright lights and the wave go away for you soon, and that you feel much better all around.

 

Haimona

[[Ia...]]

Wow. Happy to find this years old Ativan club. 

 

I’m about to start tapering a mammoth dose of 10 mgs of Ativan. I take it 5 times a day in 2 mg capsules.

 

I tried two years ago and failed. But I was doing too big of cuts. Now I plan on going slower then a snails pace and do it without focusing on an ending. If it takes ten years. So be it.

 

Anybody else taper that high of a dose? I started it in 2013 at 2mg because I had a rare but serious illness. I recovered about the same time I hit 10 mg in 2016. I’ve been on that dose ever since.