The Long Hold Support Group

[[bo...]]

I've had good luck with siberian rhubarb - Live Extension makes a formula called Menopause 731. Weird it's called that since the German studies were for peri-menopausal women. It binds to the calming estrogen receptors to improve estrogen balance.

 

Some have good luck with Vitex (chaste berry). After researching it, I declined. I can affect brain dopamine as well as possibly neurosteroids that help to keep GABA balance. That said, some really like it.

 

There are a bunch of other things too - primrose oil, black cohosh, and many others I can't recall right now.

Thank you do you take this everyday or only in hormone changes?

[Guest [fl...]]

bonty, they are best taken daily and can take a few months to reach full effects. None interact with the GABA system, and are mild and gentle for most, though everyone is different.

[[Su...]]

I can't take prozac unfortunately. I'm at Ultrarapid metabolizer for the  CYP2D6 enzyme that metabolizes most AD's and especially Prozac that has active metabolites...

 

Have u looked into this to ensure this isn't a problem for you?

[Guest [fl...]]

SuperJess, I have looked into it and am a standard metabolizer- neither fast nor slow (no snps). I’ve been on it before.

 

That said, I am purposely taking a dose and frequency that should minimally bind serotonin receptors. I only want to increase allopregnanolone via the 3 alpha had activity. Rodent studies demonstrate that the required dose is very small. We don’t know how small, so I chose a dose, based on a serotonin binding study (paper available if you want). At 1mg taken for one month, binding was 30-50%. This is astonishingly high for 1mg. For this reason, I take it two weeks on / two weeks off. This is based on a spreadsheet using half lives of 4 and 16 days for the fluoxetine and metabolite norfluoxetine. Hopefully, I metabolize on the faster end since I have no slow snps. In any case, the levels really start to build up by the first half life (16) days. Studies on fluoxetine for PMDD used this way are very good - the doses were much higher and still no withdrawal over three months. I hope not to have to do this forever!

 

Gaming the system this way is risky. But no treatment isn’t an option for me anymore. I’m so close to the edge of survival I have to try.

[[Fr...]]

Hi

Would love to hear more from others how long they held and what improvements they saw.

 

Thank you!

[[da...]]

I made it from 15+ MG's per day down to 5mgs per day in under 6 months (valium)....so I assumed this was going to be easy. 5 MG's to 3 MG's was 4 months and not bad. Cutting down from 3mgs to 2.375mgs has been horrific...so finding this group and the fact that long holds have gotten off eventually is so encouraging.im bed ridden today with severe hopelessness and severe headache...I assumed long had were for people who never really complete...I'm encouraged by this. So encouraged....

 

Can I hold for 2.375 for awhile and still heal? I need a window. Thank you

[[Tr...]]

 

Hi Dan,

 

Great work you got down this far! Well done!

 

Yes, this is a sign you need to hold for a while in order to become more stable. Let time and patience work for you. No need to rush!

In the long run you will reap the rewards of a (long) hold!

I had a really bad time at 3 mgs of Valium too. I held for 6 months. Often thought I would never beat this drug. But I did! And so will you!

 

Stay strong and keep believing. You're already healing while tapering and holding!

 

Good luck!

 

Trochsetter

 

[[Gi...]]

I made it from 15+ MG's per day down to 5mgs per day in under 6 months (valium)....so I assumed this was going to be easy. 5 MG's to 3 MG's was 4 months and not bad. Cutting down from 3mgs to 2.375mgs has been horrific...so finding this group and the fact that long holds have gotten off eventually is so encouraging.im bed ridden today with severe hopelessness and severe headache...I assumed long had were for people who never really complete...I'm encouraged by this. So encouraged....

 

Can I hold for 2.375 for awhile and still heal? I need a window. Thank you

 

Dan,

You're doing well to have gotten down so low.  My longest hold was eight months and I felt great, normal.  I built in other long holds, like summers so I could enjoy my grandchildren while school was out. I also held for weeks during the holidays.

 

Like you, I found tapering more difficult as I got lower in dose.  I'm off seven months come this Sunday.  You'll get there, keep cuts low and slow once you feel stable again.  I'm rooting for you. Ginger

 

 

[[da...]]

Thank you so much Ginger. Such a relief to know I'm not alone.congrats on your success! Very encouraging

[[Un...]]

Congratulations Troch! 

It’s so cool to see you walking off after taking it slow and incorporating a long hold.

Well done 🙌🏻

 

Enjoy your freedom, it must feel so freeing already!

 

❤️Uni

[[Tr...]]

 

 

Hi Uni,

 

Thank you for your kind words! 👍

 

It does feel rather special to be on the 'right' side of my 2,5 years taper!

Being free from weighing and filing every evening feels super!

 

Have a nice day! 😎

 

Trochsetter ❣

[[se...]]

It's crazy, but just cutting that ball/chain is such a milestone!  You should be so proud of yourself!

[[Me...]]

hi all, just wanted to pop in and say hi.  read just some of the last few posts. great to see some of you have walked off.  That is so encouraging and inspiring.  I am currently not holding but going at a snail's pace.  0.001 micro taper.  Sometimes I will do a small hold if sxs flare up.  I know I am not unique but my failed cold turkey and way too fast *for me* taper of 1 mg a month from 10-5 really threw my body into a tailspin.  Then I did my 6 month hold at 5 mg and got stable.  I am back tapering very slow but being hit with these weird burning sensations and pain in my muscles in my arms.  I try not to freak out and just accept that these are just withdrawal sensations.  today I have weird burning in my left ankle and very mild numbness. And just normal. I guess.

 

so anyways, HI TO ALL! 

LOVE AND HEALING!

Meems 

[[va...]]

hi all, just wanted to pop in and say hi.  read just some of the last few posts. great to see some of you have walked off.  That is so encouraging and inspiring.  I am currently not holding but going at a snail's pace.  0.001 micro taper.  Sometimes I will do a small hold if sxs flare up.  I know I am not unique but my failed cold turkey and way too fast *for me* taper of 1 mg a month from 10-5 really threw my body into a tailspin.  Then I did my 6 month hold at 5 mg and got stable.  I am back tapering very slow but being hit with these weird burning sensations and pain in my muscles in my arms.  I try not to freak out and just accept that these are just withdrawal sensations.  today I have weird burning in my left ankle and very mild numbness. And just normal. I guess.

 

so anyways, HI TO ALL! 

LOVE AND HEALING!

Meems 

 

Meems have you checked your neck and lower back to see if the burning and numbness in extremities could be caused by a herniated disc? I'm saying this because I have cervical and lumbar stenosis and they case these sxs in arms and legs.

[[...]]

Preparing for my next taper. Been at .125 2x a day klonopin for 3months. Psych suggested Lexapro due to depression. Anybody get relief with antidepressants? Would like to finish taper this year.

[[Fr...]]

I could really use some support. I am 2.8 years into my Librium taper and before that I was tapering K for six months before the Teva shortage so I then crossed over. I have seen healing on the way down but as I get into the lower numbers I am becoming more sensitive to physical activity and food. I really have to watch my carb/sugar intake and walk a fine line with my blood sugar of eating to little or to much carbs. It’s bad either way and hard to find the sweet spot but hypoglycemia is something I have dealt with my whole adult life since 18. I am at 2.2mg equivalent of V and recently decided to hold to see if my sensitivity would get better. My days look like spending half of it in bed until about 2pm and then feel a little better and can shower, sit out with family and do small chores around the house. Maybe one short errand where I don’t have to walk very far. Mentally I am really good and symptoms are mostly physical plus I wake in the night every night with those cortisol surges sometimes twice with heart racing sweating. I go back to sleep after about an hour and I get it again first thing in the morning when I wake and have to lay in bed for 30 mins to let it pass. I also have pots and again have to be careful with physical activity and food/liquid volume.

 

So that is my back story. I have improved a lot from how sick I was after c/t and reinstatement in 2016. What I am struggling with now is I have been holding 8 days now because I thought I wanted to give myself a break and see if this sensitive nervous system to food and activity and cortisol/sleep issues would clear. But holding now is actually having me feel so much worse. I feel toxic sick like I will throw up at any moment and my brain feel so toxic/inflamed. I feel like I can not even get out of bed. Nothing to this extreme while tapering in years. Am I being unrealistic to think that a hold will clear up my sleep and physical food sensitivities where I can function in normal life? It’s ok If I can’t work but I would like to be able to shop, cook, clean basically be mobile most of the day.

 

Is there anyone who felt worse while holding and it got better the longer you held. I am not sure the point of holding If it actually makes you feel sicker than when actively tapering. Maybe just tapering at a slower rate would be helpful. I slowed from 10% to 6% for six weeks in March and had the same toxic sick and felt much more mental symptoms after six weeks of the slower rate. When I resumed the higher rate toxic sick mental stuff cleared again and was just left with my regular sleep issues and sensitivities. Are some people toxic on the Med and need to taper but at a safe rate? My taper has been slow and sensible this whole time. I do a set daily micro taper so the % has gotten bigger as my dose has gotten smaller. Maybe the sensitivity are worse because as I get lower in dose the % is going over 10%. When I started and was on higher numbers the % was 3%.

 

Any insight would help. Sorry for the rambling just wanted to give a complete picture.

[[Ho...]]

Hey guys! I hate that I’m having to come to this support group. Let’s be honest, holding is hard but I’ve hit a wall and could use some encouragement.

 

Just a background:

Put on SSRI for 9 years due to situational anxiety and IBS

SSRI cold turkey July 29, 2020 - reinstated 1mg 2 months later to help withdrawal - it worked some.

Ativan as needed for SSRI withdrawal

Started schedule September 11, 2020 of .375mg (.125mg 3x’s day)

November 20 - .35

December 20 - .25

January 21 - .20

Feb 21 -  tried liquid compound - reaction to almond oil

Tried another oil, bad symptoms - realized manufacturer issue

3/23/2021 - 3/30 - slowly switched to liquid compound with updose .225mg - off and on stability

4/20-5/17 - dropped to .219 over time.

 

Currently holding at .219mg. Every .001mg drop on this liquid brings on immediate bad withdrawal symptoms.

 

I have been holding over a month at .219mg and still having really bad days. I’m somewhat functional but growing very weary. I feel so chronically ill and like I’m stuck.

 

At this point, is there any benefit in holding or am I just prolonging the suffering? I mean, I’m already suffering but if continuing to hold will eventually be beneficial and make future tapering more bearable, I am 100% willing to do that.

 

Current symptoms: insomnia most nights, nausea sometimes, fear/internal panic, bad fatigue and overall malaise, irritability/anger (I am not an angry person whatsoever), some depression

 

Does holding bring improvement to these symptoms or am I wasting my time?

 

I also question the liquid compound. I switched to a liquid compound because I can’t do the liquid myself and thought it would be easier to microtaper. But having a hard time and I can’t tell if it’s just withdrawal in general with all of the changes or if I should go back to pills. BUT with lorazepam pills, they’re so small at my dose. I was taking crumbs and weighing but the scale barely worked with the light weight.

 

I’m a mom to a young child so I have to function I just do not want to prolong suffering if that is what I am doing.

 

Will I ever get off these poisons? UGH!

[[va...]]

Preparing for my next taper. Been at .125 2x a day klonopin for 3months. Psych suggested Lexapro due to depression. Anybody get relief with antidepressants? Would like to finish taper this year.

 

It took me four years to taper lexapro and it was a very difficult taper, so as you ask, my personal opinion is that its not worth it. Everyone will tell you a different experience I guess.

[[va...]]

I could really use some support. I am 2.8 years into my Librium taper and before that I was tapering K for six months before the Teva shortage so I then crossed over. I have seen healing on the way down but as I get into the lower numbers I am becoming more sensitive to physical activity and food. I really have to watch my carb/sugar intake and walk a fine line with my blood sugar of eating to little or to much carbs. It’s bad either way and hard to find the sweet spot but hypoglycemia is something I have dealt with my whole adult life since 18. I am at 2.2mg equivalent of V and recently decided to hold to see if my sensitivity would get better. My days look like spending half of it in bed until about 2pm and then feel a little better and can shower, sit out with family and do small chores around the house. Maybe one short errand where I don’t have to walk very far. Mentally I am really good and symptoms are mostly physical plus I wake in the night every night with those cortisol surges sometimes twice with heart racing sweating. I go back to sleep after about an hour and I get it again first thing in the morning when I wake and have to lay in bed for 30 mins to let it pass. I also have pots and again have to be careful with physical activity and food/liquid volume.

 

So that is my back story. I have improved a lot from how sick I was after c/t and reinstatement in 2016. What I am struggling with now is I have been holding 8 days now because I thought I wanted to give myself a break and see if this sensitive nervous system to food and activity and cortisol/sleep issues would clear. But holding now is actually having me feel so much worse. I feel toxic sick like I will throw up at any moment and my brain feel so toxic/inflamed. I feel like I can not even get out of bed. Nothing to this extreme while tapering in years. Am I being unrealistic to think that a hold will clear up my sleep and physical food sensitivities where I can function in normal life? It’s ok If I can’t work but I would like to be able to shop, cook, clean basically be mobile most of the day.

 

Is there anyone who felt worse while holding and it got better the longer you held. I am not sure the point of holding If it actually makes you feel sicker than when actively tapering. Maybe just tapering at a slower rate would be helpful. I slowed from 10% to 6% for six weeks in March and had the same toxic sick and felt much more mental symptoms after six weeks of the slower rate. When I resumed the higher rate toxic sick mental stuff cleared again and was just left with my regular sleep issues and sensitivities. Are some people toxic on the Med and need to taper but at a safe rate? My taper has been slow and sensible this whole time. I do a set daily micro taper so the % has gotten bigger as my dose has gotten smaller. Maybe the sensitivity are worse because as I get lower in dose the % is going over 10%. When I started and was on higher numbers the % was 3%.

 

Any insight would help. Sorry for the rambling just wanted to give a complete picture.

 

Hi Javlogt. Eight days is not really a hold. Long Holds are usually anything over two months (I don't think two months is a long hold but that's just me). I have to give it many months for a hold to work and see improvement, but of course I have quite a lot of damage from 2019 so everyone's different.

[[va...]]

Hey guys! I hate that I’m having to come to this support group. Let’s be honest, holding is hard but I’ve hit a wall and could use some encouragement.

 

Just a background:

Put on SSRI for 9 years due to situational anxiety and IBS

SSRI cold turkey July 29, 2020 - reinstated 1mg 2 months later to help withdrawal - it worked some.

Ativan as needed for SSRI withdrawal

Started schedule September 11, 2020 of .375mg (.125mg 3x’s day)

November 20 - .35

December 20 - .25

January 21 - .20

Feb 21 -  tried liquid compound - reaction to almond oil

Tried another oil, bad symptoms - realized manufacturer issue

3/23/2021 - 3/30 - slowly switched to liquid compound with updose .225mg - off and on stability

4/20-5/17 - dropped to .219 over time.

 

Currently holding at .219mg. Every .001mg drop on this liquid brings on immediate bad withdrawal symptoms.

 

I have been holding over a month at .219mg and still having really bad days. I’m somewhat functional but growing very weary. I feel so chronically ill and like I’m stuck.

 

At this point, is there any benefit in holding or am I just prolonging the suffering? I mean, I’m already suffering but if continuing to hold will eventually be beneficial and make future tapering more bearable, I am 100% willing to do that.

 

Current symptoms: insomnia most nights, nausea sometimes, fear/internal panic, bad fatigue and overall malaise, irritability/anger (I am not an angry person whatsoever), some depression

 

Does holding bring improvement to these symptoms or am I wasting my time?

 

I also question the liquid compound. I switched to a liquid compound because I can’t do the liquid myself and thought it would be easier to microtaper. But having a hard time and I can’t tell if it’s just withdrawal in general with all of the changes or if I should go back to pills. BUT with lorazepam pills, they’re so small at my dose. I was taking crumbs and weighing but the scale barely worked with the light weight.

 

I’m a mom to a young child so I have to function I just do not want to prolong suffering if that is what I am doing.

 

Will I ever get off these poisons? UGH!

 

Hi Hopefortomorrow. Nobody can guarantee that a hold will make you feel better, but holding usually does make people feel better. One month is not a long hold. For me a long hold is three months or more. Some people here think it's two months. I don't know if I'll ever come off this drug because I spend more time holding than tapering, but I am fully functional (except for some physical problems I have unrelated to benzos), but my brain is working at last, the fear is there in the background sometimes but I don't live in panic mode like before "stabilizing". I'm not 100% stable because I've really been through the mills of psychiatric medication, but I'm much more stable than many of my neighbours and friends I must say  Children grow, and time flies. I don't want to spend my daughter's teenage years obsessed with fear, with tapering, with coming off. I wont get a second life to be with her. I want to walk with her (as much as my poor back allows), talk to her about her things, enjoy some peace. As I'm writing this I can hear the wind in the trees singing. My cat is sleeping next to me. I couldn't enjoy these moments when I was full of glutamate damage, or in waves. Of course I have setbacks due to stress, due to another medication sometimes, so that only tells me I need to hold again. I really don't know if I'll ever come off the valium. I do know this taper has taken enough of my life away already, and I'm not giving it one more minute. I will make a cut when I feel good, and then hold and repeat. I might never get to the finishing line but I will be living my life, which is what we came here for in the first place.

 

No idea about the liquid K dear, I hope someone can help you with that. Try the klonopin group perhaps? Good luck 

[[Tr...]]

 

 

Hi Val,

 

Great to see you're active on here again.  You sound so much better! You're absolutely right about not letting the taper control your life anymore. Enjoy the little things. The remark about you being more stable than many of your friends and neighbours is priceless!

 

I see you're below 2 mgs now. I found things get easier this far down. The therapeutic effects of Valium are more or less gone below 2 mgs. I hope you'll notice an easier taper from now on, just like I did!

 

You're strong!

 

Have a relaxed Sunday.

 

Tro

[[va...]]

 

 

Hi Val,

 

Great to see you're active on here again.  You sound so much better! You're absolutely right about not letting the taper control your life anymore. Enjoy the little things. The remark about you being more stable than many of your friends and neighbours is priceless!

 

I see you're below 2 mgs now. I found things get easier this far down. The therapeutic effects of Valium are more or less gone below 2 mgs. I hope you'll notice an easier taper from now on, just like I did!

 

You're strong!

 

Have a relaxed Sunday.

 

Tro

 

For me it's the opposite Dear Trotsch. I feel the lower I get, the harder it gets, that's why I've thrown away the calendar and I'll just make a little cut every few months. I'm so glad you finished the darn taper!!  Enjoy your Sunday too, I bet it's a nice day to cycle by the canals. When I went to Amsterdam we took one of those ferry rides. I loved it, except everyone was stoned, including us 

[[Tr...]]

 

 

🤣👍👊

[[Un...]]

Valiumnomore,

 

I remember when you posted the propaganda list for me last year.  Thank you.  Not only have I been holding but had to do two updoses, due to drug and brand changes (long story) and as you say - glutamate damage.  I crashed into a hell I hadn’t known in my taper, at 4mg.  I’m so sorry you crashed in yours and have had to go through this.  I’ve followed your progress this year and am trying to follow your footsteps in allowing for recovery from the glutamate horror.  It feels like my brain, nervous system and personality are even more changed than before and it was already not good.  So anyway, it’s really good to see you say you are fully functional and your brain is working again, and that you’re able to enjoy some moments now.  The fear and panic, sweating, adrenaline, intrusives (and akathisia for me) are still roaring for me but not as intensely as it was, so your posts give me hope.  I’m still in the “trauma zone” from what happened and the effects still rippling.  Hoping in time I can begin to trust my mind and body again.  I have a good feeling it will get better for you, as you go, and yes you will get off the Valium in time.  But wow, is it ever so important to throw out the calendar when such a crash happens, right?  I’m so happy for you things are turning around for the better.  May they continue. 

 

I’ve found that the lower in dose the harder it is.  But, I also wonder how much of that depends on the state the nervous system was already in from prior (cumulative) dysregulation.  Mine was a mess for a long time, I know now.  Hoping for you, your hold and now tapering slowly like you are it may get easier again later. 

 

I’m still in the holding and don’t consider it a true hold from the start since I had 4 drug/manufacturer changes and each one rocked my system intensely.  Then I attempted a 3% micro taper and ended up right back in that glutamate storm territory, but it was two weeks after my last updose so probably too soon.  So, my hold began about 3 weeks ago…. Again.  Really hoping to follow your pattern in improvements.  Functionality would be so nice!  Just wanted to let you know I value your contribution on this site and in this community. 

[[va...]]

Unicorn thank you for your kind words. My main issues are physical and not benzo related so I'm going through a rough patch in life but my brain is better than it was. However, the glutamate damage is still there. I'm incapable of watching a horror film trailer, while I used to be a horror film lover. Imagine that. My back is killing me so tapering has become a non priority now. And my condition is degenerative so I musnt be excessively optimistic about it. I wish they stopped charging your brand!!! That is really bad. Do you think they'll stick to this brand now?