Where's the insomnia buddies? no action on the threads.

[[Ac...]]

Hi Gloria, I'm sorry you're having sleep issues.  But, you're on the right thread for that now!

 

It's 6 am where I'm at now and I've been up since 3 after falling asleep at possibly 11.  I've been having a bad stretch of days. 

 

Wishing everyone adequate sleep!

[[Ac...]]

So I must be starting up another wave bc I've had a bad few days.  This process is so frustrating.  I had been making progress the last month and seeing some minor improvements, and now it's all just gone, seemingly. 

[[Go...]]

Hi folks! I need some help with insomnia as well, and related anxiety.

 

I've been on Klonazepam for about 6 months (doses ranged from 0.25 to 0.75-1mg towards the end) then cold turkeyed in early October, as my UK doctor won't prescribe any more (original prescription from another country). I went on Klonazepam because of the insomnia to start with. I then took some Zopiclone which helped me get a good couple of hours each night. On good nights, I'd get 6-7 hours and on bad nights, 3-4 hours. I also took Diazepam 4mg for a very short while (last dose was about 2.5-3 weeks ago), which helped. Other W/D symptoms have involved muscle twitching and sweating in my palms/soles of my feet, although these symptoms have greatly improved in the last fortnight.

 

Last night I got 0 hours sleep and I'm terrified, having never experienced that before! I regularly take herbal remedies (valerian, melatonin) and OTC sleep aids, but I was wide awake all night. Could this be due to Zopiclone discontinuation 2 days ago? Did others have similar experiences when stopping Zopiclone? I also half convinced myself (being a hypochondriac) that it's fatal insomnia...but I'm starting to see a CBT therapist in the hope she can help with some of the thought patterns !

 

Thanks for any help you can provide

 

[[Th...]]

What to expect:

 

1) Lots of very little or no sleep for an extended period of time. Not sure how long that will be, but Ashton says at least 6-12 months for most.  Some 12-24, and a small percentage 24 months or longer.

2) Drugs are a dead end road.  Drugs = artificial sleep.  Tolerance is reached in X amount of time (different for everyone) then the dose must be increased for the drug to have the same effect.  That is why you should try to avoid all Rx drugs, not just Benzos.  All of them have side effects and possible withdrawal?

3) Natural supplements are also not advised either.  Why?  You emotionally and physically convince your already weakened brain that it must take something in order to sleep.  I know...easy for me to say now that I sleep pretty well most nights.  I tried them all too and they didn't help much early on or later during my withdrawal.  There is also new research regarding melatonin, it is actually a hormone that the body produces and daily supplementation could lead to the body not producing it any longer.  It is meant to reset your internal clock and is designed for short-term use only.

3) Benzos are short-term use only drugs (2 - 3 weeks max) that doctors love to prescribe for whatever length of time as most don't know about withdrawal or even acknowledge it exists.  Benzos shut down or suppress your Gabba receptors in your brain; what helps you remain calm and relaxed.  When those stop working, Glutamate takes over and it is what makes you active and alert.  That is why you can't sleep.  Your sleep switch is broken.  It takes time for your sleep switch to fix itself.  Unfortunately it is not like breaking a leg or arm where healing times are pretty consistent.  See #1 above for time.

4) Most people won't understand what you are going through, even your spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, family, etc.  Outward you look normal, inward you are messed up, but they can't see that.  They might have a hard time understanding, accepting or even having sympathy for you.

5) It gets better over time.  Time allows your brain to "learn" how to sleep again on its own, without any type of drug or supplement.  All brains heal...just as drugs affect all of us differently, all brains heal at different speeds.  That is why some people can be on a Benzo for 10 years or longer before they reach tolerance and some people never go through withdrawal; however, almost everyone experiences some form of insomnia.

6) The amount of time you were on Benzos does not = how fast you will recover.  In some cases it does, but for others it does not.  I was on Benzos for 6 months and recovered fairly quickly, but others that were on only a few weeks took longer to recover.

7) Recovery will be up and down, like the stock market (well maybe that's not a good example as it has been doing well this past year) but you can expect to have some good days and bad days with the good days eventually becoming more frequent than the bad days and finally becoming almost or all goods days over time.

Immediately after going Benzo free, either through a proper taper or cold turkey, you will most likely experience "acute withdrawal" a period of usually 30 - 90 days of intense withdrawal symptoms and lack of any real sleep.  I went 4 days without any sleep after I went cold turkey on a doctor's advice.

9) Things slowly get better, usually you will notice a difference by month 6.  But it is slow.  Sort of like how we transition from summer to winter and back again...the days get longer and shorter very gradually.

10) Windows and Waves. Windows are good periods where your symptoms reduce or go away and you feel better.  Waves are crummy periods where your symptoms are at their worst and you feel like crap and sleep sucks.  Most people alternate between Windows and Waves until eventually the Windows last longer than the Waves and the Waves mostly or completely disappear over time.

11) When sleep starts to return, it will be light and broken (you will wake up a lot) and most people experience REM REBOUND or lots of dreams.  Later on your sleep will slowly turn to deeper sleep with less dreams and longer periods of sleep before waking up.

 

What you can do:

 

1) Be as POSITIVE as you can be given the crappy circumstances.  Try to laugh if you can.

2) DISTRACT yourself as much as possible.  Focus on anything that gives you enjoyment.  Don't focus on NEGATIVE things or hang around NEGATIVE people

3) Do not try to FORCE yourself to sleep.  It is not possible.  You cannot make yourself sleep no matter how hard you try.  It happens naturally when you are relaxed and NOT thinking about it.

4) ACCEPT (very hard to do for most) your situation and know that there is an end to it, it won't last forever.  It is only TEMPORARY!

5) Try not to CARE if you Sleep or Not.  When you stop caring if you sleep or not, it will slowly start to return.  Again, difficult to do, but others that have regular insomnia not caused by drug withdrawal cured their insomnia by not giving a rat's butt if they slept or not.  Takes time, is difficult to do, but works for most.

6) Eat Healthy, Drink lots of water, Exercise even if you don't feel like it or think that you can do it because you are too tired.  Also, be careful with caffeine.  Caffeine is a stimulant.  Some folks have no issues drinking coffee or soda during withdrawal; others are affected by it.

7) Be careful with supplements.  Some may excite your already sensitive nervous system. Some worked for me.  Mostly Green powders for a shake.  Again, try some experimentation to see how you are affected.

Pray.  Some of you may not be a "believer" in God, but prayer works.

9) Maybe take a break from this site for awhile, when you can, and it works for you.  This site is a tremendous help for many, but I found myself making other people's recovery process and experience my own.  I took about a 5 month break and did an amazing amount of recovery during that time.  I came back as I promised to help others get through withdrawal and because I don't think people should go through this ordeal alone.

10) ACCEPT the RECOVERY PROCESS and don't put a time frame on it for getting better.  For example, don't expect to get better by month 8 because someone else did.  In the same light, don't expect it to take 5 years or longer either, as it may have for a very small percentage of people on this site.

11) Seek counseling when beneficial and affordable.  It helped me cope when I was at my worst.

12) Be THANKFUL for any sleep you do get.  Some light sleep is better than no sleep.  Practice GRATITUDE for whatever you can in your life.

 

Final parting words:

 

You don't have FATAL Insomnia.  I thought I did, many others did/do too.  You don't have that, it's all withdrawal.  Lack of sleep will NOT kill you.  A drive by shooting could, but sleep deprivation will not!

You often get more sleep than you think, even microsleep (that most are unaware of) helps keep you going when insomnia is at its worst.

If you can't sleep, just lay in bed and do your best to relax.  Laying still can still help your body recover a little versus getting up and doing something or freaking out over the fact that you are not sleeping.

Even after you recover, expect some "off" or "bad" nights of sleep from time to time.

Never take another Benzo, ever, don't keep any in your house and don't see a doctor that will write you another prescription.

Don't Google sleep related diseases or "possible" things that could happen to you from lack of sleep.  It only adds fuel to the already out of control fire in your mind.

Acupuncture did not work for me, neither did CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy), sleep restriction, or other methods of "alternative" ways to help with sleep.  These might work for some people after their nervous system settles down?

There are not "magic" cures or special supplements you can take from some exotic land to get past recovery quicker.  I paid $7,000 to go to the Coleman Institute in Virginia to try his Flumazenil treatment for 1 week and that may have helped speed up my recovery but I have no way to know that and if it did work it certainly was not immediate.  Unfortunately the only way out is through the recovery process.  It is difficult and no fun at all, but you will get through it, eventually.

Read the Success Stories on this site for hope and encouragement.

Be mentally as STRONG as you can be and consider this a FIGHT.  FIGHT to get your "old" life back.  I was mentally SUPER WEAK after jumping CT.  I got a lot stronger mentally over time.

Be careful with ALCOHOL or anything containing alcohol as it acts on Gabba just like Benzos.  My advice would be to completely avoid all forms of alcohol including those in OTC remedies.

Most of the time, whatever you were experiencing or caused you to go on Benzos in the first place, is much easier to deal with.  If you started taking Benzos for sleep, then after recovery, you will typically have the tools and coping mechanisms to deal with a poor night of sleep much better than you did before you started taking Benzos and especially after you are healed.

Almost all of the people that suffered the most and had the worst insomnia on this site eventually healed to some degree.  Not always to 100%, but enough to lead an acceptable life.

This process will make you incredibly strong and make you grateful for each day.  You will have a newfound appreciation for life in general after you are healed.

 

Work to inform your doctors and health care providers that Benzo withdrawal is real.

 

[[Kn...]]

I've hit a wall at ~.125 Xanax. Past few nights I've been lucky to get 3 hours but now I've gotten zero perceptible sleep so I'm feeling rather terrified and I'm tempted to just jump and get it over with.

 

Your post gives me a bit of hope but since I've been so long with terribad to no sleep (like 0-4 hours), I'm afraid my heart is going to give out. My blood pressure is really low (always has been) and my pulse is through the roof.

 

Honestly my heart is the main reason I'm still trying sleep to sleep with xan since I've got arrhythmia and all that jazz.

 

Any suggestions? For what it's worth I take benadryl and melatonin but at this point I'm not convinced they do anything anymore.

[[sa...]]

I've hit a wall at ~.125 Xanax. Past few nights I've been lucky to get 3 hours but now I've gotten zero perceptible sleep so I'm feeling rather terrified and I'm tempted to just jump and get it over with.

 

Your post gives me a bit of hope but since I've been so long with terribad to no sleep (like 0-4 hours), I'm afraid my heart is going to give out. My blood pressure is really low (always has been) and my pulse is through the roof.

 

Honestly my heart is the main reason I'm still trying sleep to sleep with xan since I've got arrhythmia and all that jazz.

 

Any suggestions? For what it's worth I take benadryl and melatonin but at this point I'm not convinced they do anything anymore.

 

What helps my heart: potassium, magnesium, sole water (water saturated with Himalayan pink salt)

 

I'm really sorry about the sleep situation.  I know it's agony.  I've been struggling with it for months now.  Just keep tapering slow and steady.  It will get better with time off of benzos. 

[[Kn...]]

I take potassium and magnesium already but the salt water sounds interesting. Keeping up the taper was fine until this week where all of a sudden I quit sleeping. Not sure if it's a bad wave or what but I'm just about at the end of my rope.

Atm I'm wide awake after laying in bed for many hours.

[[sa...]]

I take potassium and magnesium already but the salt water sounds interesting. Keeping up the taper was fine until this week where all of a sudden I quit sleeping. Not sure if it's a bad wave or what but I'm just about at the end of my rope.

Atm I'm wide awake after laying in bed for many hours.

 

The potassium and magnesium are both lowering your blood pressure.  You need the salt water to balance that. 

 

So sorry about your sleep going south!  I know it's scary and miserable.  Hang in there.  Read TheWay's posts.  He's very encouraging. 

[[Kn...]]

Yeah his posts give me some hope. I might try some lightly salted water in a bit. It's frustrating to get lightheaded and have your vision fade out 3 out of 4 times when getting up.

[[sa...]]

Yeah his posts give me some hope. I might try some lightly salted water in a bit. It's frustrating to get lightheaded and have your vision fade out 3 out of 4 times when getting up.

 

I know, that happens to me too.  That's how I know I need to drink some salt water. 

[[Ac...]]

Merry Christmas buddies!  I had a 3 hour night last night- the worst in a long time.  I wish I could feel the joy of the season and the day, but I'm having a hard time lately.  I hope you all have a good day. 

[[je...]]

I've been on a 3hr average for a while now. Mornings feel like I got hit by a train.

[[He...]]

Hi guys,

 

I just want to echo TheWay2 and say it will get better. Just hang in there. I am still having some zero nights and 2 to 4 hour nights but I am grateful I have started to get some 8 hour nights here and there. When I first started tapering, I went months without more than 3 hours of sleep a night and finally...I started to get some 4 and 5 hour nights, then a couple 7 and 8 hour nights and, as of now, it is back and forth. The last 2 nights were 8 hours each but only a week and a half ago, I had a zero hour night and 3 nights ago was 4 hours.

It will slowly get better and, if you're like me, it will go back and forth a lot as you heal.

 

Also, I accidentally jumped (I forgot to take my dose for a few days and then just decided to jump) at .02mg of Xanax per day, FWIW. It's been 2 months since I quit.

 

Wishing you all the very best!

 

HM

[[Ac...]]

I had my first zero night since October.  I thought I had been making progress: my average was increasing, and I was starting to be able to go back to sleep after my cortisol surge awakenings.  Then boom, zero night.  I'm terrified of going to bed tonight.

[[Th...]]

Zero nights out of the blue are somewhat common after sleeping OK for some time.  I had zero nights at 18 months off (after sleeping well for 6-7 months) and again at 32 months off and a longer patch of very poor sleep last January to February (for about 6 weeks that included 3 zero nights and a lot of 1-3 hour nights) at 53 months off.  But I also slept pretty well for 2+ years at one point between the zero nights.  I've slept well for almost a year after last year's 6 week sleep "episode."

 

Sleep always evens out over time and you haven't been off for a year yet (according to your signature) so I wouldn't freak out about it.  Your sleep WILL even out over time, just do the best you can do until it does and be positive and grateful for any and all sleep moving forward!

 

Good luck! 

[[He...]]

AD,

 

I feel your pain! I started sleeping better in August and have had several 7 and 8nhour nights along with even more 4-to-6 -hour nights but I still get those bad nights. About 3 weeks ago, I also had a zero night. I never know when it is going to happen. Last night, was about 4 hours because I had to get up early to go to the airport. I may or may not have gone back to sleep anyway. Good for you for being able to go back to sleep after your cortisol awakenings! I have only had ONE morning, so far where ai had that happen. I went back to sleep after being completely awake and anxious. I look forward to more of those mornings down the road.

 

Hang in there! It will get better! Let us know how tonight goes for you.

 

HM

 

[[Ac...]]

Thanks, theway.  As always it's worth so much to hear it from someone who's recovered.  It's good to know it's normal to encounter zero nights unexpectedly.

 

HM, I hope you've gotten more consistency. I know that was something you were really desiring a few months ago. I'm glad you've had good night's with 7-8 and even good "average" nights of 4-6.  I'd say 5-6 has been my average recently.  I had an 11 (yes, 11!) Night after the zero, and I'm feeling calmish again tonight so fingers crossed!

[[He...]]

 

AD,

I am so jealous! I remember the days of sleeping 11 and 12 hours about 5 years ago when I was on a special medication that I don't need anymore. I am so happy for you that you recovered from your zero like that!

 

I am hoping to get back to that someday.

 

HM

[[Ac...]]

Don't be jealous.  I just had 3 this night.  So much for feeling calm- I do not anymore. The 11 was a beautiful night but now back to reality

[[Ne...]]

My sleep watch shows 7 hours but I wake up at least 10 to 15 times.  I get short blocks of sleep but very disjointed.  When I am awake, I am wide awake but not anxious.  This has been going on now for five months with little to no improvement.  What gets me through this is my acceptance and that I don’t fear not sleeping.  A BB reached out to me who was a user of only 4 weeks who shared that her broken sleep lasted for 30 months so i just need to be prepared mentally that this could take awhile.  I guess we can all agree that we will never take a benzo again!

[[Si...]]

After being in this for years, I’m going to fully agree with TheWay. It’s really pretty normal in recovery to have stretches of good, followed by bad. Don’t think if it as loosing ground when having a bad night. The brain is doing what it needs to find balance again. I used to obsess over having a bad night(s) after a stretch of good looking for some type of meaning to it. There isn’t any other than healing. It does even out the longer you heal. 

[[An...]]

I’m here HM. Just struggling so not posting much about it x maybe the ahs are losing effectiveness . Maybe try a different one?

 

My slept atm is so light it doesn’t feel like I’m asleep. I actually don’t know if I sleep or not but today I feel like I’ve been run over by a truck my body is so sore x

 

I feel like this today for some strange reason....sore and achy all over. It almost feels like the day after I got the booster for C19.

[[He...]]

Siggy,

 

It's good to hear another voice say that it evens out over time. Last night was 4 to 5 hours for me and I am on vacation, so I was hoping to get 7 to 8, but that's OK. I feel good enough to participate in the day.

 

I hope everyone has a great Saturday.

 

HM

[[Si...]]

Siggy,

 

It's good to hear another voice say that it evens out over time. Last night was 4 to 5 hours for me and I am on vacation, so I was hoping to get 7 to 8, but that's OK. I feel good enough to participate in the day.

 

I hope everyone has a great Saturday.

 

HM

 

Yep, everyone's experience in this thread sounds pretty typical for this situation. So at least you can rely on people that have been through it and eventually got back to their former sleep patterns. I was always thankful for any sleep I got, even the two hour nights. Because two hours was still better than nothing. My Saturday is going fine. Nothing too exciting. Just some typical house work.  Hope yours is going well also.

[[He...]]

I am stuck in a pattern of 4 to 5 hours a night. It's certainly better than 2 or 3 hours but it's been a couple weeks since I have had 7+ hours of sleep. I was hoping to head down that road permanently, but it isn't happening. I am in a weird phase where I fall asleep and wake up over and over all night. Sometimes, I don't know if I have slept or not. I can't tell. I wonder if I have been just lying there, or if I drifted off to sleep and woke back up. I miss the days of 8 to 10 hours of heavy sleep. I'll take what I can get. It makes work more difficult, though, when you're tired.

 

HM