Discussion: Four Phases of Withdrawal-Where Are You?

[[Cl...]]

i am so very sorry, this might be a bit off topic, but has anyone experienced benzo and a/d withdrawal at the same time?

[[dr...]]

Claire-why not start a new thread so more members can see it? 

[[Fl...]]

The problem I have with this is the idea that there is a sensitivity phase.

 

Yes, I believe that it is possible to have sensitivities, but this sets people up for the expectation that they will be sensitive to lots of stuff. People already obsess over what caused their latest wave and what they can do to bring on windows and I don't think we should be feeding into those fears.

 

I am absolutely positive that each and every one of us could lead a perfect life (if we could even get anyone to agree on what that is) and we would all still have waves. Creating more health anxiety doesn't seem like the answer.

[Guest [jc...]]

i am so very sorry, this might be a bit off topic, but has anyone experienced benzo and a/d withdrawal at the same time?

 

Yes, I weaned off of 200 mg. of Zoloft while going through klonopin withdrawal.

[[il...]]

The problem I have with this is the idea that there is a sensitivity phase.

 

Yes, I believe that it is possible to have sensitivities, but this sets people up for the expectation that they will be sensitive to lots of stuff. People already obsess over what caused their latest wave and what they can do to bring on windows and I don't think we should be feeding into those fears.

 

I am absolutely positive that each and every one of us could lead a perfect life (if we could even get anyone to agree on what that is) and we would all still have waves. Creating more health anxiety doesn't seem like the answer.

 

Florida - I see you're benzo free since 2011. How amazing do you feel 5 years later?? Congrats!

[[Fl...]]

Florida - I see your benzo free since 2011. How amazing do you feel 5 years later?? Congrats!

 

I can't say that I feel amazing since I am one of the more severe protracted cases (especially with my cognitive issues) but I have absolutely made progress and most days I am no longer in pain and based upon the anecdotal evidence that I have observed with other long term protracted folks I am sure this trend will continue.

[[il...]]

I don't think she meant to do anything but ward people away from things that antagonize symptoms. I don't think it instills fear at all. I think it just spells out what to stay away from.

 

Sorry to hear, although I imagine you'd progress feels amazing. Keep it up!

[[dr...]]

The problem I have with this is the idea that there is a sensitivity phase.

 

Yes, I believe that it is possible to have sensitivities, but this sets people up for the expectation that they will be sensitive to lots of stuff. People already obsess over what caused their latest wave and what they can do to bring on windows and I don't think we should be feeding into those fears.

 

I am absolutely positive that each and every one of us could lead a perfect life (if we could even get anyone to agree on what that is) and we would all still have waves. Creating more health anxiety doesn't seem like the answer.

 

I wouldn't say this is a blueprint for everyone but probably 85% or so would fall into 3 out of4 phases. I know if I drink caffeine, get stressed out, or exercise too much my cns gets hit for days afterward.  Early on I was a hot mess regardless of whether I did these or not.  Now I'm mostly okay unless I do these things.  Maybe it should be labeled "mostly induced by exterior influences" waves

[[Gr...]]

Is it possible to be in Phase 2 even though I'm still tapering? I've experienced windows as I have tapered and have had some symptoms get better as I go into the evening.

 

Anything w this journey is possible...a few lucky ones step off and feel relatively well when done tapering. Not the majority here though. A good rule of thumb is the more difficult the taper the more difficult the recovery.  There is no way to predict what your situation will be.  Wish you the best

 

Thank you Drew.

[[il...]]

I'm still a solid 2. I think I was just in a good window when I said possibly beginning 3. I do feel better at night, and had the best window yet last week when I went into public without hesitation. I hope that's the start of something amazing!

 

Can't wait to get more time under my belt and more healing. This is hell no one should have to endure!

 

God bless and prayers for all.

[[kr...]]

illnever  you sound like me...I thought entering 3 but definately NOT. im at 2 with waves like 1 and occas windows like 3

I like when i can go out and about without anxiety too. better at night also.

[[be...]]

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I think I'll bookmark it for later on.

Bets

[[il...]]

The Windows will get better, Kris, I can promise you that. Keep on keepin on. It does get better! My Windows make me think of phase 3, but I'm not there yet. Still stuck in 2.

[[so...]]

Florida Guy,

 

My intention in describing Phase Three as the Sensitivity Phase was not to increase people's health fears.  It might be better for you to think of it as the Situational Phase.

 

As I said in my original post, our CNS sensitivity is off the charts throughout the whole withdrawal process, whether we are in the tolerance stage, tapering stage or in the post jump stage.  Our overly sensitized CNS is what is causing all our symptoms, no matter what they are.  The difference is, when we are in the thick of withdrawal in the early phases, being constantly barraged by many different symptoms all at once 24/7, it is difficult to peel the onion and differentiate regular sh*tty withdrawal from periodic flare ups because early withdrawal is one big flare up.  Later on, as we heal more, we can tell upticks and flare ups and can oftentimes identify certain "situational" triggers that caused them.  We are not suddenly becoming sensitive to things; we have been sensitive all along.  Later on in the healing process, however, we can start to differentiate upticks from regular withdrawal and identify culprits and causes for the flare ups.

 

I hope I clarified my original post for you.  Perhaps you don't buy into the whole phases theory because you had a completely different experience than many others on the forum.  I look forward to you posting an alternative scenario because I am forever curious about this process and I simply do not accept that it is as chaotic as it sometimes appears to be.  I think there is a definite pattern to this healing and, if people can see this pattern, they can see a progression and it will give them hope that complete recovery is the end result for EVERYONE.

 

Sofa

 

 

[[Fl...]]

I hope I clarified my original post for you.  Perhaps you don't buy into the whole phases theory because you had a completely different experience than many others on the forum.

 

I might have been lucky in that I haven't had the sensitivities that some people report. Looking at it from the outside though it just seems like there is a lot of desperation to try to find some kind of control over this and it leads people to make wild assumptions. It happens to me as well. I go into a wave and my brain automatically wants to pin it on something but most of the time I end up realizing it was just another wave.

 

I look forward to you posting an alternative scenario because I am forever curious about this process and I simply do not accept that it is as chaotic as it sometimes appears to be.  I think there is a definite pattern to this healing and, if people can see this pattern, they can see a progression and it will give them hope that complete recovery is the end result for EVERYONE.

 

Sofa

 

I don't have an alternative scenario, probably because I do believe that this is every bit as chaotic as it appears to be.

 

I have been here for a long time and I have yet to seen any kind of consensus as to what might give us significant control over this process. Aside from a few common sense things such as eating a decent diet, staying active and avoiding psych drugs.

 

When it comes to stuff that is claimed to bring on waves, for every person that says they have an issue with it there are two more who say they tolerate it just fine. And there is only ONE common denominator in every single case of healing, and that is time. We can speculate all day long that it was this or that that helped but in every single case a certain amount of time had passed and therefore a certain amount of healing had occurred. My guess is that it doesn't make a huge amount of difference what you do or what you eat while you are healing, you are still going to have waves and it is still going to take you as long as it takes to heal.

 

Then again, it's all a guess. We are the blind leading the blind here and your guess is as good as mine.

[[an...]]

Florida- I'm a newbie as you can see by my signature line but I have to say that I have read thousands of posts here, most scared the crap out of me, then I noticed there was no "triggers" that made me worse food wise. I've eaten all kinds of things in tolerance, acute and now and not one thing caused a wave. Of course I stay away from caffeine and alcohol but I quit both a very long time ago.

 

I've come to notice that every one says "everyone is different" but there's this strong suggestion to stay away from certain foods and certain supplements.

 

I've even noticed I've felt worse laying here in my house worrying about symptoms and felt better when facing fears like panicking in the grocery store. I always feel worried when I go out but I continue to try every day to do 1 thing outside of the house. This can be a dog walk, the grocery store or college class. Sure I get anxious but I notice it's getting easier from week to week.

 

So yes, as a newbie, as you can read in my post on page 1, I am not having the same experience as certain things causing waves. I'm just not. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe what I've done with this TIME in acute and early paws is helping me heal. I have no idea. Just wanted to share my opinion as I feel like I don't have a say most of the time since I'm not protracted/new here.

[[dr...]]

I think the sensitivity portion is as individual to each as the journey here.  I do not think one should avoid things unless they are pretty damn sure they react to it.  I can tolerate many things others can't and many others can tolerate things I can't.  I'm pretty damn sure that some things make me feel damn worse so why would I continue to do those things?  I fight giving up some things like caffeine and when I finally did the difference was huge.  I've even tried blind self studies to see if it as all in my head(with help of wife). It wasn't. 

 

[[Ch...]]

Well done, Sofa. This is brilliant.

 

I'm at the tail end of Phase 2 with one foot FIRMLY planted in Phase 3. What a refreshing way to look at recovery.

 

GrandmaD: Try not to worry. Not everyone experiences a horrific acute period. I didn't, my first 2 months free were actually quite decent. It's normal to worry about acute (I sure did) but don't let it overwhelm you. We are all unique in this.

 

I totally agree.

[[il...]]

SOFA - congrats and thank you again! Regardless of it not being 100%, (what in life is?), it seemed to accurate enough to help so many still healing and make so much sense to those who have healed, enough to become a sticky note here in Post-Withdrawal Recovery Support!

 

Thanks so much again! It's wonderful!

[[Fl...]]

I've come to notice that every one says "everyone is different" but there's this strong suggestion to stay away from certain foods and certain supplements.

 

Yes, as much as this experience is similar for most people it is also very different. I'm not going to tell anyone that it's impossible to trigger a wave with a food or a drug. Hell, I had a cigar last night and true to form, I am paying the price for it today. I just think it's very easy to get caught up in obsessing over things and I'm not sure that is doing us any favors when we are sick with so many other symptoms.

 

I've even noticed I've felt worse laying here in my house worrying about symptoms and felt better when facing fears like panicking in the grocery store. I always feel worried when I go out but I continue to try every day to do 1 thing outside of the house. This can be a dog walk, the grocery store or college class. Sure I get anxious but I notice it's getting easier from week to week.

 

I think we do have to be careful not to overexert ourselves and I don't believe that we can bulldoze our way through this, but I do think it's a good idea to constantly try to move forward.

 

I think the sensitivity portion is as individual to each as the journey here.  I do not think one should avoid things unless they are pretty damn sure they react to it. 

 

Yea, my point is that it's good to be vigilant but there is a fine line between vigilance and obsession when your brain is on the fritz.

[[so...]]

Florida Guy,

 

I appreciate your input and would like to clarify a few things.

 

First, as far as sensitivities go, I only named a few examples of the frequently mentioned ones, most of which I am not personally sensitive to.  They were just examples.  There are probably thousands of possibilities.  Everyone has to figure out their own particular sensitivities and steer clear of triggers.  In doing so, there may be a way to avoid what people refer to as "being thrown back into acute" with a severity of symptoms that are outside the realm of normal crappy withdrawal.  These flare ups are not usually random "out of nowhere" occurrences as you get further into the healing process.

 

Second, even in Phase Three there may still be bumps and curves in the road due to the non-linear nature of this healing process and  these bumps and curves are not necessarily caused by anything.  It's just the nature of the non-linear beast.  The body is healing and this is what healing the brain and CNS feels like.  During Phase Three, however, these bumps and curves are much less frequent, less intense and last for a shorter duration.  I still contend a severe flare up of symptoms is situational at this stage.

 

I'm sorry your withdrawal journey has been so chaotic for such a long period of time, with no rhyme or reason to the sudden and severe onslaught of symptoms that seem to happen for no reason.  I experienced that in the first two phases of my journey, but things are just more predictable and, for the most part more manageable, as time goes on, not just in my case, but in the journeys of so many people who have responded to the original post. 

 

Time is the only healer, I agree wholeheartedly.  I never said otherwise.  I didn't attach even a general timeline to the phases of withdrawal.  Everyone is unique.  I wish you saw these phases in your journey.  You would have hope that you are nearing the end of it.

 

[[wh...]]

Sofa, I am glad that you wrote about sensitivities.  It is helping me determine where I am at.  For instance, black pepper was making my neck and face tingle and I had some today on my omelette and nothing happened.  My sense of smell has dampened down too-perfume wa bother me much more before.  Anyway thank you as it is really helping me and actually giving me much hope !!  love you

[[Cl...]]

Dear FloridaGuy,

 

I am very sorry to hear you are one of the most severe protracted cases in this forum and thus in your case this journey that Sofa describes so well does not apply. I am thankful I am learning my sensitivities and glad I do not drink orange juice on an overseas plane, as an example.

I am also very sorry for many BBs whose road is so difficult as to feel badly 24/7 after 3, 4, 5 years of being off of benzos and other psychiatric drugs. I admire them all.

I started to notice my sensitivities as soon as finished my taper, but geeez, I was indeed certainly sensitive to your posts ever since I signed in into this forum nearly 2 years ago. Fortunately, not anymore, they used to scare me deeply, specially because you were in the same drug I was and for half the time and dose I was. I could not relate much to your posts, still I got very scared, however, I could have related to them before my taper, I am coming from tolerance for years.

I hope you can write into your book about stories such as that of BenzosRCruel, Challis, Megan, Juliea, EastCost, Piano, Kiddo, Sofa, Drew, many...who, after a terrible time, have succeeded or are about to succeed in the near future, otherwise people on benzos are going to be very scared to taper off as I was.

I wish healing is around the corner for you.

A big hug

Clona

 

 

 

 

[[so...]]

Clona,

 

I'm so happy about the progress you've seen in your healing.  90% days!  You made so many excellent points in your post above.  Being scared about what is happening to us is unavoidable.  Fear, in and of itself, is a primary symptom of withdrawal.  People who are protracted for years, although a very small percentage, frighten most everyone who reads their posts.  The sheer terror of the possibility these feelings and symptoms we have could go on for years wreaks havoc in our thoughts and our emotions.  I pray for these people every day and I hope they figure out what may be keeping them in this for such a long time.  The great majority of people (98%) are recovered within three years.  My greatest wish is that the four phases post will give EVERYONE the belief they are steadily progressing through the healing stages and the hope that they will eventually fully recover.

 

Sofa

[[Ma...]]

this describes what i have gone through exactly, spot on. im in phase 3. been fine for 5 months then recently played football thinking i was good to go. think it was the high intensity sprinting. you put your body through a lot doing them. straight after my legs started shaking. but then was fine. the next day it hit. been dealing with it for about 6 weeks now. so seems was a serious knock to the system. mainly been scary because of the duration. but cant complain to much. im at 10 months so hoping to be all done just past a year maybe. time to take up golf haha keep fighting