Updosing Support Group

[[Wi...]]

I think I just need some reassurance...I crashed end of Sept from too large a cut...went back to original dose of .25...nothing weeks later...went up to .35...its been 2 1/2 months and I am still barely functional...I am having such debilitating vertigo sometimes I can barely make it across the room. On top of that Dr did urine test and it showed zero benzo...so she sent if off to another lab that can measure miniscule amounts...still nothing. Do I have bad pills? Do I just need to updose more? I am just absolutely miserable and depressed...

 

ddjohn, I'm really sorry for your struggles.

 

I just happened to see your post this morning. Some benzos don't show up in standard urine testing:

 

'Although most benzodiazepines show up in standard urine tests, some don't. Alprazolam (Xanax), clonazepam (Klonopin), temazepam (Restoril), and triazolam (Halcion) may not be found in many of the common tests.'

 

Updosing would not change this. I'm surprised that your doctor is ignorant of this fact.

 

Source: University of Rochester Medical Center - https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyclopedia/content.aspx?contenttypeid=167&contentid=benzodiazepine_urine

 

I hope you find some relief. Wishing you the very best.

 

 

[[va...]]

Wildflower, what a useful post. Ddjohn is on klonopin so there you are. It's outrageous that her doctor doesn't know this but then again, why am I not surprised?

[[Wi...]]

Wildflower, what a useful post. Ddjohn is on klonopin so there you are. It's outrageous that her doctor doesn't know this but then again, why am I not surprised?

 

Thanks, Vali. You said exactly what I wanted to about the doc. Surprised. Not. Trying not to get too pissed off. Rules an' all that....

 

I wish us all healing this coming year. A peaceful Christmas to you, Janice.

[[va...]]

The same to you Wildflower. May we continue to heal together in love and light. I wish the best for you and your family.

[[Wi...]]

The same to you Wildflower. May we continue to heal together in love and light. I wish the best for you and your family.

 

Thank you, Vali. I appreciate it very much.

[[Ca...]]

hello buddies i need some advice. i have been holding and cutting very slowly since around may2019 when my taper seems to have hit a wall again. but it seems i am not improving but getting worse. getting more and more nonfunctional and depressed. i seem to have kindled from 2 failed tapers and also hit tolerance. i think i am screwed. im too scared to do anything. keep holding? updose? try cutting while not feeling well? try other meds? please help me guys my thoughts are slowly getting darker since mid 2019. if i can get stable im even ok with staying on a small dose indefininely from whatever med i can tolerate but im too scared. these meds are so bad i regret ever going to a psychiatrist.

Hi Hope..

A bit of a “down to business” msg here, so pls forgive me, as im a bit brain fogged too..

 

Updosing, or Dose Correction, as I tend to use, is a tool.. So I try to look at the job one wants it to do...

If its fixing a dose discrepancy from tapering too fast, then correcting seems to have a high chance of timely success... But to polarise that to the extreme, -say one has a couple of CTs, dropped other meds, throw in a history of alcohol, and top it off with a long battle of tolerance and associated symptoms, et al, then it might be more ummm, problematic...

 

I think we often see a delay in people updosing, for obvious reasons, so that seems to me to add time to how quick/effectively it might work too...

 

Also symptom profiles might come into play.. Short “responsive” SX, lets say shakes, sweats, cramps, etc (though this is varied person to person), -might respond much better or faster than “deep” SX, which for me are more the psychological ones of initiation motivation, fatigue and drive, etc.. Also my GI issues to an extent..

I feel that sometimes our bodys can just get to a point where it reacts poorly to these meds (kinda paradoxical, if you will).. The obvious (simplistic) solution would be to just get off med asap in that case, but nothing benzo is that simple, and to use two examples of a possible path that I know better than others, Begood and NJ, extensive time may offer promise.. (though im speculating on NJs future course of action beyond reinstating obviously) -sorry NJ..

 

So looking at your Sig, and trying not to be prescriptive, I have to wonder just were you sit in all this..

(Assuming im kinnda right even)..

I guess my question is, If getting off med is your current goal (it doesnt have to be), Is it possible to keep tapering off, or is that option out of the equation... Though Im not saying that SHOULD be your course of action, more just trying to gauge where you are at SX wise..  One doesnt have to be in utter hell to validate an updose..  On the contrary, -I often did it as part of the bigger picture, quite readily.. Though my big reinstatement after 15 months off was from a protracted opiate situation, not just valium..

 

Just food for thought, -your post indicates you are well aware of the complexity of your situation...

-or perhaps more, Im just wondering where YOUR “extended” thoughts are leading you...??

 

Hope we can all help you bounce some ideas around...

 

[[va...]]

Good morning everyone. Here's an interesting post by an old buddy who's no longer here, SG57. He mentions his theory on why updosing can take a long time to work for some. I hope everyone's getting some relief from their symptoms.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=159445.msg2138023#msg2138023

 

 

[[NJ...]]

hello buddies i need some advice. i have been holding and cutting very slowly since around may2019 when my taper seems to have hit a wall again. but it seems i am not improving but getting worse. getting more and more nonfunctional and depressed. i seem to have kindled from 2 failed tapers and also hit tolerance. i think i am screwed. im too scared to do anything. keep holding? updose? try cutting while not feeling well? try other meds? please help me guys my thoughts are slowly getting darker since mid 2019. if i can get stable im even ok with staying on a small dose indefininely from whatever med i can tolerate but im too scared. these meds are so bad i regret ever going to a psychiatrist.

Hi Hope..

A bit of a “down to business” msg here, so pls forgive me, as im a bit brain fogged too..

 

Updosing, or Dose Correction, as I tend to use, is a tool.. So I try to look at the job one wants it to do...

If its fixing a dose discrepancy from tapering too fast, then correcting seems to have a high chance of timely success... But to polarise that to the extreme, -say one has a couple of CTs, dropped other meds, throw in a history of alcohol, and top it off with a long battle of tolerance and associated symptoms, et al, then it might be more ummm, problematic...

 

I think we often see a delay in people updosing, for obvious reasons, so that seems to me to add time to how quick/effectively it might work too...

 

Also symptom profiles might come into play.. Short “responsive” SX, lets say shakes, sweats, cramps, etc (though this is varied person to person), -might respond much better or faster than “deep” SX, which for me are more the psychological ones of initiation motivation, fatigue and drive, etc.. Also my GI issues to an extent..

I feel that sometimes our bodys can just get to a point where it reacts poorly to these meds (kinda paradoxical, if you will).. The obvious (simplistic) solution would be to just get off med asap in that case, but nothing benzo is that simple, and to use two examples of a possible path that I know better than others, Begood and NJ, extensive time may offer promise.. (though im speculating on NJs future course of action beyond reinstating obviously) -sorry NJ..

 

So looking at your Sig, and trying not to be prescriptive, I have to wonder just were you sit in all this..

(Assuming im kinnda right even)..

I guess my question is, If getting off med is your current goal (it doesnt have to be), Is it possible to keep tapering off, or is that option out of the equation... Though Im not saying that SHOULD be your course of action, more just trying to gauge where you are at SX wise..  One doesnt have to be in utter hell to validate an updose..  On the contrary, -I often did it as part of the bigger picture, quite readily.. Though my big reinstatement after 15 months off was from a protracted opiate situation, not just valium..

 

Just food for thought, -your post indicates you are well aware of the complexity of your situation...

-or perhaps more, Im just wondering where YOUR “extended” thoughts are leading you...??

 

Hope we can all help you bounce some ideas around...

 

Cant: Great post. I do hope to continue on my taper someday. While I am feeling pretty good right now after the updose and very long hold (it did take more than a year to say I feel that I am in a good place), I think the life stress with my son is still a factor in me deciding this is not the time. His health is unfortunately still a huge issue in our family and a huge stressor for me. Sitting here so sad that another Christmas is coming and he is not well (although he thinks he may have food poisoning--he is dropping weight again, he can't afford to).

 

[[be...]]

http://bestanimations.com/Holidays/Christmas/santa/santa-claus-animated-gif-10.gif

 

"May All Have Peace and Healing This Holiday Season"

[[Ba...]]

Hi, I am not caught up yet but wanted to say hi.

 

Yes I am one of the ones trying to cut, but mostly holding trying to get stable but also realize may have to go up to get stable.

 

But like Magnolis, afraid of everything... maybe that is a symptom.

 

On .05 mg clonopin (can I just stop it it is annoying to measure the crumb), 2 val, about 2/3 of l0 mg ambien.    Am homebound not very functional, and as you guys know, alone.  I just don't see this as a future.

 

OK, write more later.  Glad to see NJ and OliveKitty doing so well (may be others, too but not read yet... )

 

NJ, I thought sleep was not really much of an issue for you?  For me has always been premier issue. 

 

Hoping 2020 is better for a lot of us and good for those of us doing well.

[[NJ...]]

Hi, I am not caught up yet but wanted to say hi.

 

Yes I am one of the ones trying to cut, but mostly holding trying to get stable but also realize may have to go up to get stable.

 

But like Magnolis, afraid of everything... maybe that is a symptom.

 

On .05 mg clonopin (can I just stop it it is annoying to measure the crumb), 2 val, about 2/3 of l0 mg ambien.    Am homebound not very functional, and as you guys know, alone.  I just don't see this as a future.

 

OK, write more later.  Glad to see NJ and OliveKitty doing so well (may be others, too but not read yet... )

 

NJ, I thought sleep was not really much of an issue for you?  For me has always been premier issue. 

 

Hoping 2020 is better for a lot of us and good for those of us doing well.

 

Barbara,

 

Insomnia is what caused me to be on benzos what feels like most of my adult life. Sleep has been better although last few nights not great so leaned heavily on some very potent medical marijuana last night so I slept.

 

It looks like you have been on that crumb of Klonopin forever. if I were you I'd probably drop it. If you have symptoms then maybe updose the valium? I think it would be better to be on one benzo than the two.

 

I am having a tough week. My son is crashing again so I have been very weepy, trouble sleeping, more nausea. It's so hard--I think he may have be having adrenal insufficiency due to his longtime prednisone use, we are nearing the end again of a prednisone taper and his weight is just dropping and dropping and he has none to lose. I am freaking out and not sure the doctor is taking things seriously.

[[Ol...]]

Hi Barbara Ave - Sending you so much love. I know you have struggled. We feel your pain. I would drop the Klonopin. Like NJ said, you could do a slight V updose to stabilize, but better to take only 1 benzo, in my opinion. Es[ecially since your K dose is so small at this point.

NJ, I'm so sorry this has bee a rough week. You were doing so well. I am so sad to hear about your son continuing to struggle. Have you considered Functional Medicine? They can sometimes catch things where doctors are blind. Sending love.

[[Ba...]]

Yes, I probably will not notice the crumb being gone.  I think I will forget it.

 

I'm sorry your son is still so ill ;(  That is so not fair.

 

I have tried some indica for sleep but does not seem to work.  Have tried thc gummies which do work but then don't feel wonderful.  Tried cbd flower but I have horrible cough (no idea why am no smoker) last 6 years so inhaling not ideal.  feh.

Hae heard hempbomb gummies work?  Think they are $5 each but if they worked and i felt ok would be worth it.

[[NJ...]]

Barbara,

 

I wish the marijuana would help you. I have had a lot of problems sleeping this week after months of using the marijuana very sparingly, and wow, it totally knocks me out. I used a firecracker edible two nights ago and slept for 10 hours. High THC (little to no CBD) should help you. I am sorry it doesn't. Also I know in California Mary's Medicinals has CBN patches in some locations which is supposed to really help with sleep. I don't have access here. Let us know how you do without the K.

 

OliveKitty,

 

I have not tried functional medicine mostly because I cannot find a functional medicine doctor. I need to work with someone who can work within the framework of traditional medicine as well. There are many things that interact with the medicines my son is on. If I could find an actual MD I would be there in a heartbeat. Most of the functional medicine specialists also are into a lot of diet (which I can't limit my son's diet right now, he is dangerously underweight and also has avoidant restrictive food disorder, which means there is a lot he won't eat) and supplements, which I am concerned with as some of his liver enzymes are off due to being on heavy duty medication. I am feeling defeated but I will keep pushing because that is what moms do. I have to say, I really resent that my husband just doesn't seem to be following this as much as I wish he would.

[[Ol...]]

Barbara,

 

I wish the marijuana would help you. I have had a lot of problems sleeping this week after months of using the marijuana very sparingly, and wow, it totally knocks me out. I used a firecracker edible two nights ago and slept for 10 hours. High THC (little to no CBD) should help you. I am sorry it doesn't. Also I know in California Mary's Medicinals has CBN patches in some locations which is supposed to really help with sleep. I don't have access here. Let us know how you do without the K.

 

OliveKitty,

 

I have not tried functional medicine mostly because I cannot find a functional medicine doctor. I need to work with someone who can work within the framework of traditional medicine as well. There are many things that interact with the medicines my son is on. If I could find an actual MD I would be there in a heartbeat. Most of the functional medicine specialists also are into a lot of diet (which I can't limit my son's diet right now, he is dangerously underweight and also has avoidant restrictive food disorder, which means there is a lot he won't eat) and supplements, which I am concerned with as some of his liver enzymes are off due to being on heavy duty medication. I am feeling defeated but I will keep pushing because that is what moms do. I have to say, I really resent that my husband just doesn't seem to be following this as much as I wish he would.

 

Oh I'm so sorry, that sounds really hard. My best friend's daughter is anorexic and has been in and out of the hospital, and my friend's husband doesn't really believe that it's a real issue. I do not understand!! I'm so sorry your husband is not more supportive.

[[Ba...]]

Doing awful today.  i dropped the crumb and when could not sleep woud up upping both ambien and valium, not knowing what to do.  Also took gabapentin, which have here but only used occasionally.

 

Slept but not good.  I am freezing cold (was yesterday and since i got the URI then the disaster with antibiotic... so terribly sick), in bed, under electric blanket.  Drank some hot water should eat something eventually.

 

I just see body falling apart.  Skin probs (seborrhea ears, scalp, some on neck, bit on face, and patch under a boob that never quie goes away)... noticed my tongue very red and very cracked.  Chinese Medicine says severe chronic sickness.... sigh.  I just wish benzos made you drop dead not drag it out, you know?  We are all going to die but it is suffering that is good to avoid.

 

No idea what to take tonight.

 

I don't know about firecracker mj... I did try CBN tincture way back and made me feel horrible....  I'm so sensitive.  Maybe those gummies or capsules that are $5 apiece i should try-- or not.  The hemp bombs.

[[NJ...]]

barbara,

 

I don't know about the hemp bombs ... maybe post on the medical cannabis thread on BB and see if anyone has used? Sorry last night was so rough.

[[Ol...]]

So sorry to hear this Barbara.. how big do you actually think the crumb is? What would it’s Valium equivalent be? It would make sense to up your Valium that much for a successful crossover. K is so strong!

[[Ba...]]

The crumb weighs on a scale .003 grams last few days.  I skipped it last 2 days but am taking other stuff so hopefully that cover it but still nonfunctional, can't regulate body temperature, no appetite, and in bed mostly.

 

It not good.

[[Ol...]]

I'm so sorry Barbara. Hang in there! We are all rooting for you.

 

[[Ba...]]

thanks but i in such poor shape maybe should just go to hopital?  I don't know any more.  was at .008 or .007 klon beginning of decemer (that of a .5 pill weighing .171)... maybe add that back?  that was before antibiotic and so sick from URI and the antibiotic.

 

I just am an extreme case.

[[Ol...]]

Barbara, if you are feeling like you might need to go to the hospital I would say yes, you should. It wouldn’t hurt to get checked out to make sure there isn’t something else going on. Please check back in and let us know how you are doing. And if you need to add your crumb back in, go ahead and do it. We want you feeling better!

[[NJ...]]

Barbara,

 

I agree with OK. If you feel you should go to the hospital maybe you should just to get checked out. Good luck and feel better.

[[Ba...]]

Thanks well I didn't since I am bsically terrified of hospitals.

I added back my crumb.

I took my usual, plus 100 mg lyrica and felt well enough to go to dr (tho I di dnot drive myself).  Have much more energy, too.

 

So it is the drugs.

 

Went to dr. who said have some cysts and she thinks laryngal reflux.  Said can change diet (seriously, no food OR water 3 hrs before bed?  No chocolate?  No mint?  That will not happen... ), take proton pump meds for 3 months see how I am come back.  Said can go to g.i. dr to check for hiatal hernia maybe causing all this.  UH... that is surgery so don't think will be checking.

 

A pharmacist said why didn't I try taking pepcid see how that goes.  That is sounding reasonable to me for starters.  What do you think?

[[He...]]

I recently updosed clonazapam

My new order is .5 mg up to 3 times

per day. I had been gradually going from .5

per day to 1 mg per day to now

up to 1.5 mg per day. The new order

just gives me an excuse. I take the bulk of it

for sleep .

I have not tried to sleep without

It since June 2019.

Before the pills I had been

sleeping just every other night

But now I wish I were back there

instead of trying to get

off these pills .  Ty