Need help setting up LT Plan.. too much brain fog

[[an...]]

I follow you.  But do the receptors even start healing while tapering? because they are still being dosed with Benzos. I thought (likely misunderstood) they didn't heal until completely off?  Thank you again, A lot of information to grasp, but thankfully so many on BB, Yourself included that give time and explanations. Very grateful!

 

I started the 5% taper this morning.

 

I'll just reinforce builder's answer by saying YES! they do heal as you go.  Not only do they heal, if you do it right you can follow the healing down and not feel much in the way of symptoms.  It is often said that symptoms are a sign of healing.  I could not disagree more.  Symptoms are a sign that you CNS is struggling.  OTOH, having no symptoms at a lower dose IS absolutely a sign of healing.  Your CNS is functioning normally on less drug...that's healing and is the goal of a taper.

 

SG,

 

I am in complete agreement with your statement on healing and symptoms.  :thumbsup:  In addition,  there would be no reason to taper if healing did not take place as you carefully taper.  I also believe that one needs to be as stable as possible before starting a taper.  I was completely stable before my first taper, and had no problems during or after I finished the taper.  This time I was not as stabilized, and it is rougher than the first time, but it is getting better as I lower my dose.

 

Anne

[[bu...]]

 

I am in complete agreement with your statement on healing and symptoms.  :thumbsup:  In addition,  there would be no reason to taper if healing did not take place as you carefully taper. I also believe that one needs to be as stable as possible before starting a taper.  I was completely stable before my first taper, and had no problems during or after I finished the taper.  This time I was not as stabilized, and it is rougher than the first time, but it is getting better as I lower my dose.

 

Anne

  I say that everytime this question comes up.  Tapering allows us to (try to) synchronize the CNS recovery with the reduction in dosage.  If that were not the case, one might as well just CT.

[[Sa...]]

Thank you anne2015 for confirming what builder, SG57 said about the up regulation, it brings HOPE!! 

 

@SG57...Hi, I check in with my Dr. today for Rx. refill (not completely out of K but will be on 10th) and want to tell him how much I've tapered so far. Having trouble with the math... could you please figure the liquid mg K I'm down to (pulled 1.6ml today, 2/4/16) for me and if not too much show me the equation to figure, so I'll be able in the future?    Thank you.

 

I'm on 2.5 mg K, dosing 3x/day ...reducing at 5%, first pull was .4ml on 2/1/16

I put .5mg K in 50ml milk then split that amount into 2 days doses of 25mg.

Also take .75 mg in pill form at each dose.

 

[[...]]

.5mg into 50ml is a .010mg/ml strength.  This means each 1ml=.010mg K, so each .4ml pull is .004mg K and four of these would be .016mg.  Your starting dose was 2.5mg and you have removed .016mg, which leaves 2.484mg.

 

As for the relation between the mls and the mgs, we set it up to make this easy.  Each ml=.010mg K so just move the decimal point two places to the left to go from mls to mgs, and move it two to the right to go from mgs to mls.  In other words, the mgs K is just the mls divided by 100 and the mls is just the mgs K times 100.

 

Example: today you pulled 1.6ml.  Just divide by 100 to get .016mg K.

[[Sa...]]

Hmm .... When I check, your total pull amount has me down to 2.484mg, mine has me down to 2.450mg difference of 0.034.  Am I to be pulling the .4 from the 50 mg. batch?  I divide my 50mg batch into 2 days worth, 25mg/day. I've been pulling .4ml out of each 25mg dose?

[[Sa...]]

Correction down to 2.460

[[...]]

No, no, Pull .4ml total for the day, not from each dose!  Pull from the 25ml batch first, then split it.  If you have pulled extra put it back as soon as you can.  Your daily doses should have been 2.496mg, 2.492mg, 2.488mg, 2.484mg.

[[Sa...]]

I started my pull Feb 1, 16 . What I've been doing is

 

Day 1, make my 50 ml batch, split it in to 2 - 25mg batches, (saving 1 for the next day) Then on I pulled .4mg out of the 25 mg. THEN split the remainder into 3 doses. I did not pull any more from any off that days doses.

 

Day 2, 2-2-16, the second 25 mg. batch I pulled .8mg THEN dividing it into 3 doses without pulling any more.

 

Day 3, 2-3-16 Made another 50 ml batch (.5mg K in 50ml milk) split it into 2 -25 mg batches putting one aside for day 4. and from day 3's 25mg pulled 1.2mg

 

Day 4, 2-4-16 (today) I used the other half and pulled 1.6mg from 25mg, then divided it into 3 doses.    I am not pulling from each days 3 doses. 

[[Sa...]]

So I should only be pulling .4ml from each 25mg dose ?  Not doubling it the next 25 mg. batch?  day 1 .4, day 2 .8, day 3, 1.2 day 4, 1.6?

 

 

[[Sa...]]

I have been doubling the amount I pull each day by .4ml

 

Should I only be pulling .4 ml each day?

[[...]]

Each day you should be pulling an additional .4ml.  So the amount you throw away should be...

 

d1: .4ml

d2: .8ml

d3: 1.2ml

d4: 1.6ml

d5: 2ml

 

Increment it by .4ml each day.  The amount cut each day is .004mg (.4ml).

[[Sa...]]

That is how I've been pulling... BUT to calculate my new daily mg total, I subtracted it wrong.  Wasn't using .004 each time. (subtracting .004, then .008, .012, .016 )  Thank you!! and sorry about the mix up, my brain isn't very good at math right now. 

[[Sa...]]

Hi, I've tried several times to figure out 10% of 2.5  ...not happening.

 

Could you please figure it for me. I will not attempt 10% yet but would like to know how it looks timewise and for when my body/brain is ready

 

I have to call my Dr. for the refill, I want to show him I'm sincere about coming off (well he says reduce, that I'll never get totally off them.) Yes, I will! Strange he's wanting me down to .50-1mg range K, wrote the Rx. only for enough for 2mg/day - 120 pills  BUT wrote also+ 30 for leeway but the way he wrote it , the pharmacy could dispense only the 120. I don't feel he'll leave me without but the fear is there.  Sorry for needing much help with the math, Thank you, again.

[[...]]

It sucks being under the gun like that with a doctor.  Try to stockpile and save as much of your drug as you can.

 

A 10% cut from 2.5mg is 2.25mg.  Another way to say 10% is .1; .1 x 2.5=.25.  So a 10% cut is 2.5-.25=2.25.  An easier and quicker way is to just multiply 2.5 by .9 to skip the middle step... .9 x 2.5=2.25.

[[Sa...]]

Hi, I  received my titration schedule from my Dr. today well from his Physician Assistant.  Am I in trouble? 

 

I've been on .5 to 1 mg. K for 14 years and recently up to 2.5mg K for exactly 1 month (an increase of additional 1.5 mg.)  I'm now down to 2.480mg K from 2.5. The Dr. wants me back down to my usual 1 mg./ day. and wants it done in 6 weeks , no exceptions! or I will have to see a Psychiatrist.  I was not even put on K for Psyc reasons but for an auto immune disorder of the inner ear.

 

It's a six week titration pill cutting taper. 

 

Week one down to - 2.25 mg/day; Week 2 - 2mg/day; Week 3 - 1.75mg/day; Week 4- 1.50mg/day; Week 5 -1.25 mg/day; Week 6 - 1 mg/day and hold.

 

I don't even know what % each weeks cuts are. And no adjustment to dose decreases allowed. Terrified!  Any Suggestions?  Thank you.

 

                   

[[...]]

These doctors trying to control tapers...why can't they just leave it alone.  You might be okay since your updose was fairly recent.  It is not possible to know.  He has you cutting 60% in six weeks.

[[Sa...]]

Hi SG57, I've decided on continuing with LT not the 60% cut my Doc is requiring.... Sx are starting to kick up a fair amount, tolerable but uncomfortable. I'm pulling 5% on a .5mg 50 ml milk solution. I just made a batch for tomorrow, continued with a pull of 2.8ml. See what happens tomorrow with sx. if difficulty increases will hold a day or 2. 

 

Can even 5% pull decreases bring on sx? If so Wow! I may eventually even want to consider dosing 4x/day. 

 

Also have reputable information to see a Dr. who specializes in Ashton manual tapers. Will have to travel out of my state, but what ever it takes. :-)

[[...]]

I hope you do well with the doctor, but my experience tells me it is rare to find one who knows how to taper.  Finding a doctor who will prescribe and stay out of the way is enough.

 

So, to remind myself, your dose was 2.5mg K and you have been cutting .004mg a day?  If symptoms are kicking up you should not keep cutting at that rate.  Slow down or hold.

[[Sa...]]

Hi SG57, Has been awhile since last response .  I'll catch you up.

 

I did see the Dr. (out of state) He has agreed to prescribe and follows Ashton/slow taper, wants me to listen to my bodies Sx... BUT ...as you said, most do not "totally" get it. He partially gets it ... BUT ...wants to switch me from dosing 3x/day to 2 x/day, Said K was never intended to be given 3x/day... He doesn't get it, 3x/day helps keep blood level stable= less CNS trauma, sx. NO! Will not go q12 hrs.  Also we're debating a switch from 2.5mg K to 50 mg V in slow stages. I want to come down/off of as much of the K before a switch, as it's not yet given me significant WD trouble. When lower dose, if K starts to get overbearing I'll consider the V.

 

I'd like to start dosing my K 4x/day instead of the 3. Three doses/ day just are not holding me. At the 1- 1/2 hour before next dose I'm in WD, sx mainly light anxiety, burning skin, moderate headache. I started tapering Feb. 1st 16  @5% .... OR... would dropping the cut to 2% be favorable over 4x/day at 5% cut?

 

Several times I was 2 hours late dosing and to catch up my schedule I'd take the next dose 6 hours later instead of 8 and noticed that there were zero WD Sx between doses. Would like to be as Sx free as possible

 

Would you mind setting up a 4x/day K dose schedule for me? I'll soon need more liquid to work with... When I divide 25mg into 4 daily doses along with the increasing pulls that's not leaving me much liquid to divide.  And do I need to change each dose gradually or just go straight into 4x/day? I know to hold at 2 weeks at 4x/day dosing before starting up the taper again.

 

Started tapering Feb. 1st 2016...I'm down to 2.464 mg. from 2.500mg. (15 year use of K)  I held for a week at the pull of 3.6 ml... due to stress of the flight, seeing new Dr. not knowing what to expect.

 

Right now my 3 doses are split between pill and LT.

Pill is: .75mg  LT is: .072mg for total of 2.466 mg/ day

 

For the liquid I use .5mg in 5 ml milk.... then divide the 50mg into 2-25 mg/ day doses. Each day I divide the 25mg into my 3 doses,(after pulling 3.6ml).  I'm tapering at 5%

 

Thank you

[[...]]

Hi Sarah,

 

I think you are smart to stay with the K if it is not giving you trouble.  It sounds like the only reason to consider V is to cut down on doses.

 

So to refresh, you are now at 2.466mg and you want to go to 4x dosing.  2.25mg is pill and .216mg is liquid.

 

I'd change to 2mg dry and .466mg wet.  Each dose would become .5mg dry+.1165mg (11.65ml) liquid.  Kind of a more natural split.  The extra 25ml liquid will go away so you will no longer have a two-day supply.

 

I'm in favor of just switching abruptly to 4x dosing.  There may be some symptoms but they will be temporary.  Others think it needs to be done slower.

[[Sa...]]

Thank you SG!!   

[[Sa...]]

SG57, Hi..... After much consideration I've decided to do a K to V crossover.  My Dr. drew up the crossover plan, It seems ok, may be reducing to much K too soon. 

 

I've not much experience with what is too fast with benzos and don't want to get off on the wrong foot. Would you mind giving me your opinion if this CO plan is fast?  I will not make any changes to his plan unless talking with Dr. first....  Just need some guidance.

 

He's reducing my K @ .125 mg (+adding V 2.5mg) ...BUT.. from 2 out of my 3 daily doses every 2 weeks. Seems it might be safer to reduce 1 of the 3 doses at a time, every 10-14 days?  His crossover is taking away .250 mg K  substituting with 5mg V per day ..BUT..  the K will drop faster out of my system before I have enough V built up, No, Yes?

 

              My taper plan

 

Week 1-2: Begin transfer by lowering the am and pm dose of K by .125 while also substituting 2.5 mg V in the am pm dose. Keep afternoon dose @ .875mg K.  Do this for 2 weeks

Week 3-4: reduction/substitution amounts the same but from the am and early afternoon dose. Leaving the pm dose as is. 

Continue this cycle of reduction .125K, Substitution 2.5mg V at the appropriate 2 dosage intervals until CO complete. When  CO is complete V doses should be, 7am, 17.5mg V ... 3pm 15mg V ... 11PM 17.5 mg V

 

 

Takes quite a bit of time to complete a CO and stabilize. After finished I may ask for help with making a V vodka solution (taper).  Thank you for your help so far.

[[...]]

I agree it would be better to trade 2.5mg at a time rather than 5mg, but what he suggests is not too bad really.  It sounds like your dose is 50mg V (equivalent) so 5mg is 10%.  So he proposes trading 10% every 1-2 weeks.  That is actually quite slow and careful and I think you would be able to cross faster than that, which is great.  Most people can cross at a rate of several percent a day so the whole process is usually over in 4-6 weeks.  His plan to alternate doses 1-3, 1-2, 2-3 is also pretty good.  His plan can be tweaked, but it is not bad at all the way it is.

[[Sa...]]

Thanks SG, appreciate your input.!!    I'll get started on the CO.   

.......Oh, and he is substituting with 2.5mg V per dose (2) ..not 5 mg. So the daily sub total of V is 5mg. 

[[...]]

Yup, it should work fine.  If I were to change it I'd probably do 2.5mg at a time rather than 5mg and just plan on waiting half as long.  I'd rotate the 2.5mg trade through the three doses.  This would be gentler, but it may not need to be gentler.  It may already be gentle the way the doc wants to do it.  Good to see a doc do it right.