Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[an...]]

Shannon, yes you can do .5mg in 50ml for the same result.

 

[[Mo...]]

For those daily tapering Valium... can I get some people chiming in at what pace they are tapering? I've been going about .02mg/day for a while now... between .5-.6mg/month... and I'm considering upping the speed a bit... would just like to get a read where everyone is at with that.

 

Thanks. 

 

D, you know I taped 0.05 daily and held on 4 th day.. Just like our buddie.

I understand now that you might as well go a tiny bit slower and not do holds but it worked for me.

How are you feeling, D?

[[dp...]]

For those daily tapering Valium... can I get some people chiming in at what pace they are tapering? I've been going about .02mg/day for a while now... between .5-.6mg/month... and I'm considering upping the speed a bit... would just like to get a read where everyone is at with that.

 

Thanks. 

 

D, you know I taped 0.05 daily and held on 4 th day.. Just like our buddie.

I understand now that you might as well go a tiny bit slower and not do holds but it worked for me.

How are you feeling, D?

 

Hey girl

 

I'm making progress and holding my ground, but I don't like the antisocial moodiness and horrible depression. After thinking about it more, I think the depression caused by all these meds have manifested a large number of my other symptoms. It's rough, but it's not been without it's good moments. Just afraid of what I'm going to be like after all these meds and if I'll be able to be physically healthy again.

 

How are you??? You're below 1mg!

 

http://s3.amazonaws.com/FratMusic-Site-Images/assets/cover/1419307192-Its_574d8b_5314280.gif

 

Have you been able to enjoy getting out and about a bit more?  Hope so. 

[[We...]]

Shannon, yes you can do .5mg in 50ml for the same result.

 

 

Ok, Great. thanks Anne.

 

And Gardener, you are making me crave Stawberry Shortcake now. mmmm.

 

And Dan, I have no doubt in my mind, that you WILL heal. Once these benzos and steroids are out of your system. You adrenals will be able to mend. I am excited to see your progress. hang in there,

 

hugs

shan

[[Mo...]]

For those daily tapering Valium... can I get some people chiming in at what pace they are tapering? I've been going about .02mg/day for a while now... between .5-.6mg/month... and I'm considering upping the speed a bit... would just like to get a read where everyone is at with that.

 

Thanks. 

 

D, you know I taped 0.05 daily and held on 4 th day.. Just like our buddie.

I understand now that you might as well go a tiny bit slower and not do holds but it worked for me.

How are you feeling, D?

 

Hey girl

 

I'm making progress and holding my ground, but I don't like the antisocial moodiness and horrible depression. After thinking about it more, I think the depression caused by all these meds have manifested a large number of my other symptoms. It's rough, but it's not been without it's good moments. Just afraid of what I'm going to be like after all these meds and if I'll be able to be physically healthy again.

 

How are you??? You're below 1mg!

 

http://s3.amazonaws.com/FratMusic-Site-Images/assets/cover/1419307192-Its_574d8b_5314280.gif

 

Have you been able to enjoy getting out and about a bit more?  Hope so. 

 

Heya,

Yes, the moodiness and not feeling social . I've spent most of my time without socializing last year.

D, I gotta tell you: it gets better ! A whole lot better. We have been here together for a while now and you know it hasn't been like this for me all the time. But boy...does it get better.

I'm still easily shaken and panicked but not even close to what it was. If I manage to stay away from stress and such, I'm pretty good.

My waves seem to pop up more frequent but they don't last nearly as long.

Maybe a few hours, day tops.

Whereas before it could be days, a week, right ?

 

So, keep going, Dan. You're getting there too. Getting below 5 made all the difference for me.

 

Yep, nearing the end here with this taper.

And yes, I DO get out more. I just flew 6000 miles to be with my parents and I'm home for a few weeks. I'm kinda proud I pulled it off, with my little one in tow. You know I'd never been able to do this a year ago!

I've biked again today. And I'm walking into town each day. Having a Reiki treatment tomorrow from a good friend here and I'm going horseback riding next week, something I've missed for so so long and was scared to do. I'm just going to do it! Screw it.

 

So, there is some positive stuff for you to look forward to. The clouded mind, the racing, the depression....it gets BETTER!

[[ga...]]

OK guys, my blog is launched and I am excitedly waiting for some personal stories to be added to mine!

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=137928.msg1848581#msg1848581

[[jr...]]

I am taking .5 xanax 3x a day. how would i micro taper and which dose should I start with? Or do I micro taper every dose?

[[Ra...]]

Hi all,

 

I'm sorry, I'm one of those crazy control freaks who has to know how this works, so I've tried to work the math out.  Please see if what I have pasted below is correct. . .

 

A. Pill size in MG  divided by total number of liquid mls = mg/ml

B. % desired  reduction  x current daily dose = mg reduction per reduction cycle

C. Mg reduction (B above) divided by number of days for that reduction cycle = daily mg reduction for that reduction cycle.

D. Daily Mg reduction / mg per ml = daily ml reduction

E. Mg reduction (B above) /mg per ml = ml reduction for reduction cycle

F. Total mls in full liquid mixture – total current daily mg dose  x  total mls in full liquid mixture = total ml reduction from full liquid mixture.

G. Divide reduced liquid mixture equally by number of daily doses.

 

Example: (2  .5mg pills dissolved in 4ml of Everclear and added to 96ml of water = 100ml of liquid mixture, current dose .875mg/day)

A.  1mg / 100ml = .01mg/ml

B. .05 (5%) x .875 = .04375mg reduction over 14 days

C. .04375mg divided by 14 days = .0031mg per day reduction

D. .0031 / .01 = .31 ml per day reduction

E. .04375 / .01 = 4.375ml

F. First day:  100mls – .8719mg x 100mls = 12.81 ml reduction

F. Second day: 100mls – .8688mg x 100mls = 13.12ml reduction

G. First day: 87.19mls divided by number of daily doses.

G. Second day 86.88ml divided by number of daily doses.

 

And so on . . .

 

Could someone please check my math and theory there.

 

Also, I have .5mg Xanax tablets.  Can I dissolve 2 .5mg pills in 4ml of Everclear and dilute with 96ml of water?  I asked a similar question last week about dissolving .5mg in 49ml of water.  I can't remember now what the answer was.  I don't really want to increase the water if I don't have to. 

 

I'm still cutting and holding for now, will do that until symptoms begin to show up as the daily microtaper will be a hassle for me.  I don't want to do it until I have to.

 

Thank you so much!!

 

Moodle, SO glad to hear you are doing so much better, hugs to you friend 

 

[[ga...]]

I am taking .5 xanax 3x a day. how would i micro taper and which dose should I start with? Or do I micro taper every dose?

 

I believe that most people, including me, micro-taper one dose down a bit and then go on to the next one and then the next one, round robin style.

 

For example:

 

I dose 6 times a day. When I started micro-tapering my bedtime dose was .20 and the others were .18. I micro tapered the bedtime dose down to .18 so it would equal the other doses.

 

Now I am micro-tapering my 7PM dose down to .16mg.

 

When that's done, I'll pick another and then another until they are all .16mg.

 

Then I'll pick one and go down to .14mg and continue round robin style until they are all .14mg.

 

Etc.

 

I don't think it matters which dose you start with.

 

Of course, I was using 10% dilutions for the dose I was tapering. So I was actually going down to 1.80mg of the dilution.

 

I don't dilute all of my doses because of the nuisance factor, only the one I am micro-tapering. That's possible for me because I use a liquid form of Xanax called alprazolam intensol. If I needed to break pills, I would probably prefer to dilute everything and measure with a syringe rather than try to dry cut the pills.

 

And, eventually you will have to drop a dose. I tried to drop a dose right off the bat and it was a disaster. Set me back weeks.

 

I'll also add that I started at 5 doses and as I got lower I needed to go to up to 6 doses (same total, just more doses) to avoid inter-dose withdrawal. It's quite a nuisance, but unless I switch to a longer benzo, it is what it is. Most people don't experience this, but a few do. I think we are rapid metabolizers of Xanax.

 

Hope that was helpful. Others please chime in. I'm not on pills, so I may just be mixing him up!

[[Ul...]]

 

Hippo, I'm glad today was a good day. I know I can't relate totally to what you're going through, but I have a decent idea. I know it's easier said than done, but if I were you I'd try to do ANYTHING to distract what you're going through. Even find the tiniest thing(s) you can enjoy, and then fixate and focus on THAT. You're stronger and more in control than you think. Once you grasp that concept, I'm confident that you'll handle the entire situation a lot better. You'll feel like you're in more control of the situation, and life WILL improve. Keep believin', my friend!!

 

Jeff

 

Hiphop, I see that Ultra either needs his eyes examined, or he has nicknamed you Hippo!   

 

Since he suggests you find something to distract yourself from your symptoms, I suggest you might do that by making a list of potential nicknames for Ultra. <-That is supposed to be my innocent look.

 

"Hippo" just rolled off my fingers 

[[Ul...]]

I finally wrote my benzo free celebration post:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=137882.0

 

sharkey

 

You made me cry, dude.  Shouldn't have done that. Kidding, of course (about the "shouldn't have done that" part). I'm SUPER proud of you. What really stuck out at me was "tenacity" and the fact that "helping others" is healing in and of itself. Congratulations, brother! You're a tough cookie and a fantastic inspiration more than you know. You give hope as well as sincere love. Bless you, Shark-Attack!

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Sharkey & MT Friends,

I'm thinking out loud as I plan my move forward. I've been "stuck", extremely symptomatic, and in a holding pattern at .62 mg, for many weeks, and feel weary and trapped.

 

My question is, I've been reducing at a conservative 2.5% every 7 days and my body & brain are on fire.  Much pain; both physical & mental, simply holding.

 

Reducing 1% per day will increase my weekly reduction rate. Will my symptoms increase?

I've read that others have experienced fewer symptoms with daily MT all the while increasing the taper rate. True?

Would like to hear your thoughts & experience with this.

Thank you!

 

Personally, I would go with what SG told me: Hold until symptom free, and THEN let the brain heal faster than the taper. In other words, taper slow enough so that your brain (and body) can heal faster than your taper. He said that when we do this, we drastically reduce w/d symptoms. He's been right on target with that, in my experience. I have to go slow and hold more often, but I'll have to say that the side effects became much less of a problem. Sure, I wish I could go faster, but it's not a race. We actually come out ahead by healing faster than our tapering.

 

Just a thought.

 

Jeff

[[Ul...]]

Hey gang, Sharkey suggested I turn my sort-of-progress-log into a buddie blog so others could join the conversation. I confess that I originally chose a progress log to avoid getting responses. I didn't want to deal with lots of depressing, scary posts while I am still so far from the end of my taper. I also worried that I wouldn't be able to carry my weight on a blog if I have another series of waves. Since I'm so new to tapering and still working the kinks out, I know that could happen.

 

But, I would love to get to know the people on this thread better! I decided that the opportunity to do that outweighed the risks of going to an open blog format, so I'm going to give it a go. If some of you join me, you can help me carry the blog and keep it solutions-focused, low-drama, and friendly.

 

I started my sort-of progress log with my How I Got Into This Mess and How I'm Getting Out story. I will tweak that a bit and move it over to the blog to get the ball rolling. I hope to see many more HIGITMAHIGO stories soon so I can get to know my fellow micro-t's better.

 

Before I can start a blog, I need a name for it. I want something inclusive so everybody feels free to post their own stories. I came up with a few dull names and a few weird names but didn't really like any of them. I need some ideas! Weird, dull, whatever, I'm open to any suggestions.

 

Gardener

 

Sorry for the crazy question, gardener, but how do people get to your "buddy blog"? Or, ANYBODY'S buddy blog, for that matter? I didn't know we could have blogs, and I didn't know there was a place to go read other people's blogs. Where is that?

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

[[do...]]

 

 

Hello Anne and all MT Buddies,

 

I am so confused.  My syringes only show half way from ml to ml not point this and point that.  Should I buy a graduated cylinder?

 

So how do most of you do it when removing their daily cut:  from the entire solution or from one of the doses?

 

Please help me.

 

This is day 1 of taper and according to the schedule it looks like I stay the same.  Should I not make a cut on day 1.

 

I would so greatly appreciate any info.

 

Have a healing day.

With gratitude,

doodle dog

  If you have a 1ml syringe, then every mark is "point something". 

 

For example, the 5 mark is .5ml, the 2 mark is.2ml, etc. 

 

No, you do not need a graduated cylinder.

 

 

Hey Builder,

 

Thanks so much. 

 

doodle dog

[[do...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

It's me again.  Sorry.

 

Just curious which is the best way to make the cut from my solution.  Do I take it from one of my 2 doses or take it from the the entire daily amount and then separate into 2 equal amounts.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

[[Ra...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

It's me again.  Sorry.

 

Just curious which is the best way to make the cut from my solution.  Do I take it from one of my 2 doses or take it from the the entire daily amount and then separate into 2 equal amounts.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

Doodle dog, when I start my microtaper, I'm going to reduce from my total daily liquid and then divide by the number of doses.  I dose twice like you, so it should be simple.

 

By the way, our Italian Greyhound's name was Dante and his nickname was 'Doodle Dog'.  I love your screen name 

 

Bunny

[[...]]

Sharkey & MT Friends,

I'm thinking out loud as I plan my move forward. I've been "stuck", extremely symptomatic, and in a holding pattern at .62 mg, for many weeks, and feel weary and trapped.

 

My question is, I've been reducing at a conservative 2.5% every 7 days and my body & brain are on fire.  Much pain; both physical & mental, simply holding.

 

Reducing 1% per day will increase my weekly reduction rate. Will my symptoms increase?

I've read that others have experienced fewer symptoms with daily MT all the while increasing the taper rate. True?

Would like to hear your thoughts & experience with this.

Thank you!

 

Personally, I would go with what SG told me: Hold until symptom free, and THEN let the brain heal faster than the taper. In other words, taper slow enough so that your brain (and body) can heal faster than your taper. He said that when we do this, we drastically reduce w/d symptoms. He's been right on target with that, in my experience. I have to go slow and hold more often, but I'll have to say that the side effects became much less of a problem. Sure, I wish I could go faster, but it's not a race. We actually come out ahead by healing faster than our tapering.

 

Just a thought.

 

Jeff

 

I would agree with this and it was my experience essentially all the way down. I just tried to maintain a taper rate that gave me a few tolerable symptoms and kept this up until I was off and pretty close to healed. It was necessary to do lots of holding and small updoses here and there but it all worked out. IMO, it is possible, at least for some, to get off benzos without all the misery. I certainly had symptoms and it did take a long time, close to 2 years, but was well worth it for me.

 

Bart

[[do...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

It's me again.  Sorry.

 

Just curious which is the best way to make the cut from my solution.  Do I take it from one of my 2 doses or take it from the the entire daily amount and then separate into 2 equal amounts.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

 

 

 

Doodle dog, when I start my microtaper, I'm going to reduce from my total daily liquid and then divide by the number of doses.  I dose twice like you, so it should be simple.

 

By the way, our Italian Greyhound's name was Dante and his nickname was 'Doodle Dog'.  I love your screen name 

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Thank you so much for your response.  I am not having a good day and can't think.  What you said makes total sense.

 

Yes, I call my nephew's dog doodle.  Then when I read the book "A Dog's Purpose", the dog was called doodle dog.  Sounds like Dante is no longer with you.  I'm so sorry.  I love dogs.

 

Thanks again and best wishes for a smooth taper.

doodle dog

[[ga...]]

Hey gang, Sharkey suggested I turn my sort-of-progress-log into a buddie blog so others could join the conversation. I confess that I originally chose a progress log to avoid getting responses. I didn't want to deal with lots of depressing, scary posts while I am still so far from the end of my taper. I also worried that I wouldn't be able to carry my weight on a blog if I have another series of waves. Since I'm so new to tapering and still working the kinks out, I know that could happen.

 

But, I would love to get to know the people on this thread better! I decided that the opportunity to do that outweighed the risks of going to an open blog format, so I'm going to give it a go. If some of you join me, you can help me carry the blog and keep it solutions-focused, low-drama, and friendly.

 

I started my sort-of progress log with my How I Got Into This Mess and How I'm Getting Out story. I will tweak that a bit and move it over to the blog to get the ball rolling. I hope to see many more HIGITMAHIGO stories soon so I can get to know my fellow micro-t's better.

 

Before I can start a blog, I need a name for it. I want something inclusive so everybody feels free to post their own stories. I came up with a few dull names and a few weird names but didn't really like any of them. I need some ideas! Weird, dull, whatever, I'm open to any suggestions.

 

Gardener

 

Sorry for the crazy question, gardener, but how do people get to your "buddy blog"? Or, ANYBODY'S buddy blog, for that matter? I didn't know we could have blogs, and I didn't know there was a place to go read other people's blogs. Where is that?

 

Thanks!

 

Jeff

 

To find or make a blog, go to the home page and then scroll down to the fourth section. You will see buddy blogs there. A buddy blog is something you start and then anybody can chime in. You aren't actually in control of the blog. If you don't like what's posted, too bad, it stays there. A progress log is something only you can post on. I started out chicken with a progress log and got talked into a buddie blog. It's called Seeds of Inspiration. I really want it to be a blog for everybody on this thread to get to know each other better. I posted my HIGITMAHIGO intro and now I'm hoping more people do the same. Doesn't have to be a novella like mine. Any kind of intro will do. Hope to see you there!

 

Here's the link.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=137928.msg1848581#msg1848581

[[ga...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

It's me again.  Sorry.

 

Just curious which is the best way to make the cut from my solution.  Do I take it from one of my 2 doses or take it from the the entire daily amount and then separate into 2 equal amounts.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

 

 

 

Doodle dog, when I start my microtaper, I'm going to reduce from my total daily liquid and then divide by the number of doses.  I dose twice like you, so it should be simple.

 

By the way, our Italian Greyhound's name was Dante and his nickname was 'Doodle Dog'.  I love your screen name 

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Thank you so much for your response.  I am not having a good day and can't think.  What you said makes total sense.

 

Yes, I call my nephew's dog doodle.  Then when I read the book "A Dog's Purpose", the dog was called doodle dog.  Sounds like Dante is no longer with you.  I'm so sorry.  I love dogs.

 

Thanks again and best wishes for a smooth taper.

doodle dog

 

Sorry to hear you're not feeing good, Doodle! May tomorrow be brighter! 

[[Ra...]]

Doodle, yes I'm so sorry you're not feeling well today, I hope tomorrow is better.  Our Doodle Dog just passed away this last June 23rd.  He was 17 and a half and such a sweet little boy his whole life.  I remember the day I got him like it was yesterday and it's 17 almost 18 years ago.

 

Please keep us posted how your taper goes.

 

Hugs 

 

Bunny

[Guest [Ma...]]

Sharkey & MT Friends,

I'm thinking out loud as I plan my move forward. I've been "stuck", extremely symptomatic, and in a holding pattern at .62 mg, for many weeks, and feel weary and trapped.

 

My question is, I've been reducing at a conservative 2.5% every 7 days and my body & brain are on fire.  Much pain; both physical & mental, simply holding.

 

Reducing 1% per day will increase my weekly reduction rate. Will my symptoms increase?

I've read that others have experienced fewer symptoms with daily MT all the while increasing the taper rate. True?

Would like to hear your thoughts & experience with this.

Thank you!

 

Personally, I would go with what SG told me: Hold until symptom free, and THEN let the brain heal faster than the taper. In other words, taper slow enough so that your brain (and body) can heal faster than your taper. He said that when we do this, we drastically reduce w/d symptoms. He's been right on target with that, in my experience. I have to go slow and hold more often, but I'll have to say that the side effects became much less of a problem. Sure, I wish I could go faster, but it's not a race. We actually come out ahead by healing faster than our tapering.

 

Just a thought.

 

Jeff

 

I would agree with this and it was my experience essentially all the way down. I just tried to maintain a taper rate that gave me a few tolerable symptoms and kept this up until I was off and pretty close to healed. It was necessary to do lots of holding and small updoses here and there but it all worked out. IMO, it is possible, at least for some, to get off benzos without all the misery. I certainly had symptoms and it did take a long time, close to 2 years, but was well worth it for me.

 

Bart

 

Thank you Jeff and Bart.

Another question.

After reinstating following a horrific C/t, I have been symptomatic for most of my X taper, beginning at 2.65 mg.  Holding does help stabilize some of the symptoms, but not all. My CNS is super reved up. I've even updosed a little, 2.5%, to allow my brain to catch up but am still symptomatic.

Should I updose a little more?

 

I am in agreement that this is not a race. I want to successfully complete this taper this time around so am willing to go slow, tweak, adjust etc.  Just am unsure if I should updose more to try and stabilize before moving forward. My Pdoc is flexible, very grateful, but inexperienced with my constellation of symptoms.

 

How I wish I couid make this not so miserable!

 

Thanks guys

 

Marija

 

[[do...]]

Doodle, yes I'm so sorry you're not feeling well today, I hope tomorrow is better.  Our Doodle Dog just passed away this last June 23rd.  He was 17 and a half and such a sweet little boy his whole life.  I remember the day I got him like it was yesterday and it's 17 almost 18 years ago.

 

Please keep us posted how your taper goes.

 

Hugs 

 

Bunny

 

 

Bunny,

 

So sorry for the loss of your doodle dog.

 

Thanks for wishing me well.  Yes, my body is still adjusting to using the liquid form.

 

Have a good week.

doodle dog

[[do...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

It's me again.  Sorry.

 

Just curious which is the best way to make the cut from my solution.  Do I take it from one of my 2 doses or take it from the the entire daily amount and then separate into 2 equal amounts.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

 

 

 

Doodle dog, when I start my microtaper, I'm going to reduce from my total daily liquid and then divide by the number of doses.  I dose twice like you, so it should be simple.

 

By the way, our Italian Greyhound's name was Dante and his nickname was 'Doodle Dog'.  I love your screen name 

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Thank you so much for your response.  I am not having a good day and can't think.  What you said makes total sense.

 

Yes, I call my nephew's dog doodle.  Then when I read the book "A Dog's Purpose", the dog was called doodle dog.  Sounds like Dante is no longer with you.  I'm so sorry.  I love dogs.

 

Thanks again and best wishes for a smooth taper.

doodle dog

 

Sorry to hear you're not feeing good, Doodle! May tomorrow be brighter! 

 

Thanks Gardener.  Yes, tomorrow will be brighter.  Tomorrow I make my first cut with the liquid.

 

Have a good week.  Love your blog.

doodle dog

[[...]]

Hi Marija

Nobody really knows if you should updose or not. Personally, I would "play around" with updoses, holding, etc. for several weeks to a couple of months and really try to get my symptoms down as much as possible. Next, I would simply taper at whatever rate kept my symptoms stable or slightly declining, allowing for the normal daily variation of symptoms. I kept a journal and gave a daily numeric rating to my symptoms during my taper. Over several days I could get an idea of what my average symptoms were doing and would then cut more, less, hold or maybe try an updose. One way to updose is to just go back to the dose at which you felt better, hold for awhile and then resume your taper. I found it helped to think of the taper as "teasing" my Valium dose down, taking as much off my dose as  symptoms would allow. If you can keep "pressure" on your daily dose, eventually you will be off and feeling better.

Good luck

 

Bart