Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[[We...]]

Shan, I used the Gemini scales when still on Ativan.

You go with the weight of your pills and not the mgr of you active ingredient of your pills.

I shaved of a bit with a nail file each day.

 

The scales fluctuate a bit. I could weigh a pill and it'd say 23 mgr. then I weighed it again and the scales said 22 mgr.

so, it wasn't THAT accurate for me. And I found the Filing a lot of work.

I took the average of my pills and went with that.

 

Eeek! that would freak me out, I think. even those little fluctuations. Even though they 'may' not make a huge difference, my mind would probably obsess about it during a taper. Thanks for the input Moodle

 

Shan

[[bu...]]

 

I guess i am confused on what you mean by it is very concentrated.  How can you tell what the concentrarion is? Because it says 50ml on the bottle or because it says .5mg to 1ml.      I dont understand.      I am also confused on watering it down.    This would dilute it and then how would one know how much to take?

 

 

  Dilution is the key to successful liquid tapers.

 

Yes, ".5mg to 1ml" is the "concentration"  Its the ratio of active med to the liquid.

 

The main reason people use liquid benzo to taper is by diluting it it becomes much easier to make small, consistent, precise cuts.

 

If you choose a dilution factor that gives you a solution where each ml contains .1mg, or even .01mg, then it makes the math very simple...just move the decimal.  Then you just take 10X 0r 100X more liquid to get the same amount of med.

 

Its a lot easier to measure out 1ml than it is to measure out .01ml.  In your case, where you are starting with .5mg=1ml, if you mix 1ml of med with 49ml water, you now have 50 ml of dilute  solution where each ml contains  .05mg K.

 

There really isn't much advantage to liquid if you don't dilute.

[[...]]

SG, thank you so much for your help and verifying that I do still have a few brain cells and that my math is correct.

 

I guess i am confused on what you mean by it is very concentrated.  How can you tell what the concentrarion is? Because it says 50ml on the bottle or because it says .5mg to 1ml.      I dont understand.      I am also confused on watering it down.    This would dilute it and then how would one know how much to take?

 

Is that why you would need to know what is in the bottle?    I guess i assumed they just compounded 25mg of Klonopin into some sort of suspension using whatever they use ( that was very articulate) and that it was a true .5mg to 1ml ratio.

 

Im hearing you say that is not the case, correct?

 

 

Again, all so confusing. 

 

 

Editing:    I guess what im asking is are you saying that there is actually MORE than .5mg per 1 Ml in that bottle?        Like I said, brain isnt working right or understanding any of this. 

 

 

As for my doctor, she and i both agreed on 6 months, this was actually a very good thing since she had originally said 2 weeks.    My jaw hit the floor when she said that.  But i was prepared as i had brought her all of my research from psychology today, the NIH, dr peter breggins and various other reputable sources that say slower is better.

 

I think by saying your liquid is very concentrated.  SG is just saying if you drink the whole 50ml it would probably put you in a comma.  In that sense it is very concentrated.  To do a daily liquid taper you dilute so you will start by taking 50-100ml a day.

 

If i was you this is what i would do:

 

take 2ml of your liquid K (1mg)

Dilute with 98ml of water

This will make 100ml/1mg K solution

Then you can reduce by .05ml/.005mg a day

So Day 1:  100ml

Day 2: 99.5ml

Day 3: 99ml

Day 4: 98.5ml

And so on...

 

That would take you a little over 6 months.  You may want to be prepared to slow down when you get to a lower dose also.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

You have a bottle of 50ml and there are 25mg in there.  It is evenly distributed in the liquid so each ml contains .5mg.

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

By "concentrated" I mean it is at a strength that will be conducive to measurement error.  It does not match a 1ml syringe very well.  .5mg in each ml means if the 1ml syringe has 100 ticks on the barrel each tick would be .005mg, which is tough to work with.  If it can be diluted it will make life much easier.

 

Sharkey and Builder, I'm a little distressed that you are suggesting they go ahead and use water when you don't yet know what the liquid is.  Water may not be a good choice.

[[sh...]]

You have a bottle of 50ml and there are 25mg in there.  It is evenly distributed in the liquid so each ml contains .5mg.

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

By "concentrated" I mean it is at a strength that will be conducive to measurement error.  It does not match a 1ml syringe very well.  .5mg in each ml means if the 1ml syringe has 100 ticks on the barrel each tick would be .005mg, which is tough to work with.  If it can be diluted it will make life much easier.

 

Sharkey and Builder, I'm a little distressed that you are suggesting they go ahead and use water when you don't yet know what the liquid is.  Water may not be a good choice.

 

Sorry for jumping the gun, SG.  I was simply trying to explain the process.  I guess i need to be careful with the pharma liquids.  I thought they were all in a true solution.

 

sharkey

[[...]]

You have a bottle of 50ml and there are 25mg in there.  It is evenly distributed in the liquid so each ml contains .5mg.

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

By "concentrated" I mean it is at a strength that will be conducive to measurement error.  It does not match a 1ml syringe very well.  .5mg in each ml means if the 1ml syringe has 100 ticks on the barrel each tick would be .005mg, which is tough to work with.  If it can be diluted it will make life much easier.

 

Sharkey and Builder, I'm a little distressed that you are suggesting they go ahead and use water when you don't yet know what the liquid is.  Water may not be a good choice.

 

Sorry for jumping the gun, SG.  I was simply trying to explain the process.  I guess i need to be careful with the pharma liquids.  I thought they were all in a true solution.

 

sharkey

 

This one is compounded.  When it comes to compounding I've seen suspensions, solutions, oils...there seem to be many ways beyond what we do.

[[ga...]]

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

 

SG or anybody, I believe you're right and I am in a similar predicament now. I am at 1.1 mg alprazolam. I saw my psychiatrist yesterday and he was not pleased that my taper was so slow. He wants to speed me up. He says the benzo is doing more harm than the taper. Originally he said I would taper over "several months" and then agreed it might be 6 months, but seemed open-minded. He doesn't seem open-minded any more.

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

From what you said about the K, my X taper will also take a year, right?

 

I've been considering asking my primary to prescribe for me so I don't have to go back to this guy who is now making me very uncomfortable. My primary and I have a much better relationship. I'm just trying to figure out how to ask her to prescribe with the psychiatrist finding out I did. He is the only psychiatrist in my insurance network (except for that awful psych nurse who loves benzos and hooked me on X). I cannot afford to ruffle him. But, if he is trying to force me into a 6-month taper that will likely be a disaster, I am inclined to try to surreptitiously ask my primary and hopefully make the switch back to her.

 

[[sh...]]

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

 

SG or anybody, I believe you're right and I am in a similar predicament now. I am at 1.1 mg alprazolam. I saw my psychiatrist yesterday and he was not pleased that my taper was so slow. He wants to speed me up. He says the benzo is doing more harm than the taper. Originally he said I would taper over "several months" and then agreed it might be 6 months, but seemed open-minded. He doesn't seem open-minded any more.

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

From what you said about the K, my X taper will also take a year, right?

 

I've been considering asking my primary to prescribe for me so I don't have to go back to this guy who is now making me very uncomfortable. My primary and I have a much better relationship. I'm just trying to figure out how to ask her to prescribe with the psychiatrist finding out I did. He is the only psychiatrist in my insurance network (except for that awful psych nurse who loves benzos and hooked me on X). I cannot afford to ruffle him. But, if he is trying to force me into a 6-month taper that will likely be a disaster, I am inclined to try to surreptitiously ask my primary and hopefully make the switch back to her.

 

I would definitely recommend trying to talk to your primary about it.  that is what happened to me.  Have you ever considered switching to klonopin?  I took Xanax for 2 years and switched to K with no problems.  and I think it would be much easier to taper.  just a thought.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[...]]

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

 

SG or anybody, I believe you're right and I am in a similar predicament now. I am at 1.1 mg alprazolam. I saw my psychiatrist yesterday and he was not pleased that my taper was so slow. He wants to speed me up. He says the benzo is doing more harm than the taper. Originally he said I would taper over "several months" and then agreed it might be 6 months, but seemed open-minded. He doesn't seem open-minded any more.

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

From what you said about the K, my X taper will also take a year, right?

 

I've been considering asking my primary to prescribe for me so I don't have to go back to this guy who is now making me very uncomfortable. My primary and I have a much better relationship. I'm just trying to figure out how to ask her to prescribe with the psychiatrist finding out I did. He is the only psychiatrist in my insurance network (except for that awful psych nurse who loves benzos and hooked me on X). I cannot afford to ruffle him. But, if he is trying to force me into a 6-month taper that will likely be a disaster, I am inclined to try to surreptitiously ask my primary and hopefully make the switch back to her.

 

It's enough to just deal with tapering.  You don't need to be sparring with doctors on top of it.  Could you maybe let the primary know how you feel and your concern about being pushed and maybe ask if he/she would be a safety net if things didn't work out with the pdoc?

 

I can see the pdoc does not really fully understand what is fundamentally going on nor appreciate the consequences.

 

Yes, if you are on 1.1mg X six months would be miraculous.  It can easily go two years.  The last few mgs are typically very slow.

[[Ju...]]

Any input on this would be appreciated. I have talked to others who have been super helpful but I also wanted to get input from some folks that may have gone through what I'm dealing with. I'm on .5 Klonopin and I tried using milk and cut too fast. So then i tried vodka and did not cut but just tried to get used to liquid. Didn't give that enough time because of some work things and basically it was bad timing to start. So weeny back to .5 pill. Leveled out. Well kinda. Some good days some not so good. Anyway was feeling good for about two weeks so I started milk titrating no cut. Did that for 18 days and got worse as time went on. Depression got unbearable so went back to pills. Actually took an extra .25 one day. Anyway long story longer

 

I am thinking about using gram scale because maybe I can't do liquid but that seems like a pain to do. Is there anyone on here who tried liquid and had to do the gram scale and is having better success?

[[Sh...]]

Hi MT team. 

I am surprised at how quickly the past 7 days have gone by.  I am scheduled to start my taper on July 16 after 10 days on full liquid dose of .5mg K x2 per day. 

 

If I use 2ml or 3ml of alcohol to 1mg of K, add 98ml or 97ml of water respectively....does that change my reductions?  I was going to start with .25ml per day based per Sharkey's suggestion.  I am no chemistry nor math guru, so I just want to confirm.  And...I hold only if sx increase, right?

 

I have a bit of anticipatory anxiety going on.  Plus, I am in the running for the job I interviewed for, so that adds to the angst a bit.  Single Mom, daughter H, is starting High School next month. Having a job means I can keep her in this district without having to think about selling the house and moving somewhere less expensive.  The schools here are great.  Anyway...I am rambling on out of nervousness.  It will all work out.  I just stay away from negative stories or drama. I just cannot go there. 

 

I read ALL of the threads here on MT, and just want you to know you are ALL in my thoughts and prayers. This is quite a unique journey, and each of you bring a special perspective that helps keep us focused, engaged and hopeful.

 

To the math and science gurus...THANK YOU! To my fellow math challenged buddies...your questions help me better understand this process. 

 

Hugs to all.

 

Shaani

[[sh...]]

Any input on this would be appreciated. I have talked to others who have been super helpful but I also wanted to get input from some folks that may have gone through what I'm dealing with. I'm on .5 Klonopin and I tried using milk and cut too fast. So then i tried vodka and did not cut but just tried to get used to liquid. Didn't give that enough time because of some work things and basically it was bad timing to start. So weeny back to .5 pill. Leveled out. Well kinda. Some good days some not so good. Anyway was feeling good for about two weeks so I started milk titrating no cut. Did that for 18 days and got worse as time went on. Depression got unbearable so went back to pills. Actually took an extra .25 one day. Anyway long story longer

 

I am thinking about using gram scale because maybe I can't do liquid but that seems like a pain to do. Is there anyone on here who tried liquid and had to do the gram scale and is having better success?

 

Welcome to the group, Just a Dad!

 

We have a few people on the thread who do dry cutting.  I'm sure they will chime in.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[sh...]]

Hi MT team. 

I am surprised at how quickly the past 7 days have gone by.  I am scheduled to start my taper on July 16 after 10 days on full liquid dose of .5mg K x2 per day. 

 

If I use 2ml or 3ml of alcohol to 1mg of K, add 98ml or 97ml of water respectively....does that change my reductions?  I was going to start with .25ml per day based per Sharkey's suggestion.  I am no chemistry nor math guru, so I just want to confirm.  And...I hold only if sx increase, right?

 

I have a bit of anticipatory anxiety going on.  Plus, I am in the running for the job I interviewed for, so that adds to the angst a bit.  Single Mom, daughter H, is starting High School next month. Having a job means I can keep her in this district without having to think about selling the house and moving somewhere less expensive.  The schools here are great.  Anyway...I am rambling on out of nervousness.  It will all work out.  I just stay away from negative stories or drama. I just cannot go there. 

 

I read ALL of the threads here on MT, and just want you to know you are ALL in my thoughts and prayers. This is quite a unique journey, and each of you bring a special perspective that helps keep us focused, engaged and hopeful.

 

To the math and science gurus...THANK YOU! To my fellow math challenged buddies...your questions help me better understand this process. 

 

Hugs to all.

 

Shaani

 

as long as you start with 100ml/1mg K.  The reductions will be the same.  If you decide to use a little extra alcohol to be sure it will not change the reductions.

sharkey

[[We...]]

Welcome Just a Dad,

 

I'm not using a scale but there are a few here who do and I'm sure they will chime in.

 

Hang in there,

Shan/wecan

[[Ba...]]

SG, thank you so much for your help and verifying that I do still have a few brain cells and that my math is correct.

 

I guess i am confused on what you mean by it is very concentrated.  How can you tell what the concentrarion is? Because it says 50ml on the bottle or because it says .5mg to 1ml.      I dont understand.      I am also confused on watering it down.    This would dilute it and then how would one know how much to take?

 

Is that why you would need to know what is in the bottle?    I guess i assumed they just compounded 25mg of Klonopin into some sort of suspension using whatever they use ( that was very articulate) and that it was a true .5mg to 1ml ratio.

 

Im hearing you say that is not the case, correct?

 

 

Again, all so confusing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Editing:    I guess what im asking is are you saying that there is actually MORE than .5mg per 1 Ml in that bottle?        Like I said, brain isnt working right or understanding any of this. 

 

 

As for my doctor, she and i both agreed on 6 months, this was actually a very good thing since she had originally said 2 weeks.    My jaw hit the floor when she said that.  But i was prepared as i had brought her all of my research from psychology today, the NIH, dr peter breggins and various other reputable sources that say slower is better.

 

I think by saying your liquid is very concentrated.  SG is just saying if you drink the whole 50ml it would probably put you in a comma.  In that sense it is very concentrated.  To do a daily liquid taper you dilute so you will start by taking 50-100ml a day.

 

If i was you this is what i would do:

 

take 2ml of your liquid K (1mg)

Dilute with 98ml of water

This will make 100ml/1mg K solution

Then you can reduce by .05ml/.005mg a day

So Day 1:  100ml

Day 2: 99.5ml

Day 3: 99ml

Day 4: 98.5ml

And so on...

 

That would take you a little over 6 months.  You may want to be prepared to slow down when you get to a lower dose also.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you to everyone.      My math tells me that if i take it to the first line as is, undiluted, to .98 that is a 2% reduction of .5mg.  Which in turn is a reduction of .01. 

 

I reached that number by multiplying .5 times 2%.  That equals .01   

 

.50x2%= 0.01

 

Isnt that what sharkey is suggesting be a reduction rate?

 

I can do that without diluting.  And the timeframe would be right at 6 months

 

 

Please correct me if i am wrong. 

 

 

I may be in the wrong section because im not sure this is considered a micro taper.   

 

I certainly will not tapwr for 1-2 years as the side effects of the klonopin are why I want to quit taking it.      I am in no way denegrating anyone elses decisions or journey, its just that i dont believe a long process is the correct process for me.

 

Now i may be back here in a month saying oh lord help me and asking for a micro taper, diluted schedule, but for now i need to trust my gut instinct and go at the pace i believe i can manage.

 

I really need help with the math and please correct me if I am wrong with my simple equation i listed above. 

 

b

 

 

 

 

Edit.... The reason i decided to go to liquid is because it is i possible for me to cut a pill with a knife and have any accuracy at all.    My doctor and i agreed a liquid would be easier since i can ger a precise measurement, now Im hearing you all say that is incorrect unless I dilute it.      This is all just too confusing and in fact anxiety inducing.    So i will just wait for a reply to see if my math is correct.

 

Is a 2% reduction of .5mg of klonopin a reduction of .01

 

Thanks everyone for helping. 

[[sh...]]

Thank you to everyone.      My math tells me that if i take it to the first line as is, undiluted, to .98 that is a 2% reduction of .5mg.  Which in turn is a reduction of .01. 

 

I reached that number by multiplying .5 times 2%.  That equals .01   

 

.50x2%= 0.01

 

Isnt that what sharkey is suggesting be a reduction rate?

 

I can do that without diluting.  And the timeframe would be right at 6 months

 

 

Please correct me if i am wrong. 

 

 

I may be in the wrong section because im not sure this is considered a micro taper.   

 

I certainly will not tapwr for 1-2 years as the side effects of the klonopin are why I want to quit taking it.      I am in no way denegrating anyone elses decisions or journey, its just that i dont believe a long process is the correct process for me.

 

Now i may be back here in a month saying oh lord help me and asking for a micro taper, diluted schedule, but for now i need to trust my gut instinct and go at the pace i believe i can manage.

 

I really need help with the math and please correct me if I am wrong with my simple equation i listed above. 

 

b

 

 

 

 

Edit.... The reason i decided to go to liquid is because it is i possible for me to cut a pill with a knife and have any accuracy at all.    My doctor and i agreed a liquid would be easier since i can ger a precise measurement, now Im hearing you all say that is incorrect unless I dilute it.      This is all just too confusing and in fact anxiety inducing.    So i will just wait for a reply to see if my math is correct.

 

Is a 2% reduction of .5mg of klonopin a reduction of .01

 

Thanks everyone for helping.

 

You are missing the point.  If you want to do small cuts you need to dilute.  If you make a mistake without diluting it will hurt bad.  If you dilute first, you can much more accurately do cuts at whatever rate you want.

 

2% of .5mg = .01mg that is correct

 

Did you find out what your compound is made with?

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[Ba...]]

Thanks sharky for verifying my math.      I actually think .01ml is a very small cut!!!

 

Thats going from a dose of .50 to .49.      To me that is a riny tiny cut. 

 

I understand everyone is different and may need to make even smaller cuts than that, for now I will work with this 1-2% cut per day for 7 days, then hold and see what happens. 

 

Thanks again everyone and I truly wish you all the best of luck on your individual journeys.

 

Peace and Blessings to each of you.

 

b

[[sh...]]

Thanks sharky for verifying my math.      I actually think .01ml is a very small cut!!!

 

Thats going from a dose of .50 to .49.      To me that is a riny tiny cut. 

 

I understand everyone is different and may need to make even smaller cuts than that, for now I will work with this 1-2% cut per day for 7 days, then hold and see what happens. 

 

Thanks again everyone and I truly wish you all the best of luck on your individual journeys.

 

Peace and Blessings to each of you.

 

b

 

I agree it is a small cut.  good luck with your taper.  if you run into any trouble let us know.  we are here to help.

 

sharkey

[[bu...]]

You are missing the point. If you want to do small cuts you need to dilute.  If you make a mistake without diluting it will hurt bad.  If you dilute first, you can much more accurately do cuts at whatever rate you want.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Why is this such a difficult concept for many people?

[[bu...]]

 

 

 

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

 

 

 

Wow!! Unless there is some history of conflict there, I would be scared to death of any doc that refused to allow a family member to accompany you during an office visit. :o

[[ga...]]

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

 

SG or anybody, I believe you're right and I am in a similar predicament now. I am at 1.1 mg alprazolam. I saw my psychiatrist yesterday and he was not pleased that my taper was so slow. He wants to speed me up. He says the benzo is doing more harm than the taper. Originally he said I would taper over "several months" and then agreed it might be 6 months, but seemed open-minded. He doesn't seem open-minded any more.

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

From what you said about the K, my X taper will also take a year, right?

 

I've been considering asking my primary to prescribe for me so I don't have to go back to this guy who is now making me very uncomfortable. My primary and I have a much better relationship. I'm just trying to figure out how to ask her to prescribe with the psychiatrist finding out I did. He is the only psychiatrist in my insurance network (except for that awful psych nurse who loves benzos and hooked me on X). I cannot afford to ruffle him. But, if he is trying to force me into a 6-month taper that will likely be a disaster, I am inclined to try to surreptitiously ask my primary and hopefully make the switch back to her.

 

I would definitely recommend trying to talk to your primary about it.  that is what happened to me.  Have you ever considered switching to klonopin?  I took Xanax for 2 years and switched to K with no problems.  and I think it would be much easier to taper.  just a thought.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

Interesting that you mention klonopin. My primary did suggest that quite some time ago. Others on this forum have said K also so short-acting that it's not worth switching. Did you do a straight switch or a gradual switch and what ratio did you use? I've seen different opinions on equivalencies.

 

I talked to my primary's triage nurse this afternoon. She is going to message my primary to see if she would be comfortable taking over the prescribing again. I just pray the psychiatrist doesn't go snooping in my medical record and see what I asked! Gulp!

 

[[sh...]]

Interesting that you mention klonopin. My primary did suggest that quite some time ago. Others on this forum have said K also so short-acting that it's not worth switching. Did you do a straight switch or a gradual switch and what ratio did you use? I've seen different opinions on equivalencies.

 

I talked to my primary's triage nurse this afternoon. She is going to message my primary to see if she would be comfortable taking over the prescribing again. I just pray the psychiatrist doesn't go snooping in my medical record and see what I asked! Gulp!

 

Ashton has Clonazepam = Xanax on equivalency.  So .5mg X = .5mg K.  BUT the half life for Xanax is 6-12 hours and the half life for K is 18-50 hours.  That is a big difference.  I see K as kind of a medium acting benzo.  Valium last longer but alot of people can't deal with the depressing effects of it.  Clonazepam has similar effects (at least they did for me).

 

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

As far as your phyciatrist, you need to find someone else to prescribe your meds and fire him/her.  Then find someone knew to analyze you if you still need counseling.

 

sharkey

[[ga...]]

 

Good job bringing the doc along.  But six months is still likely way too short.  And you won't save time by getting to zero quickly as you will still feel awful on the other side...for a long time.  In fact, it will probably add extra time, plus the added suffering of going too fast.

 

 

SG or anybody, I believe you're right and I am in a similar predicament now. I am at 1.1 mg alprazolam. I saw my psychiatrist yesterday and he was not pleased that my taper was so slow. He wants to speed me up. He says the benzo is doing more harm than the taper. Originally he said I would taper over "several months" and then agreed it might be 6 months, but seemed open-minded. He doesn't seem open-minded any more.

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

From what you said about the K, my X taper will also take a year, right?

 

I've been considering asking my primary to prescribe for me so I don't have to go back to this guy who is now making me very uncomfortable. My primary and I have a much better relationship. I'm just trying to figure out how to ask her to prescribe with the psychiatrist finding out I did. He is the only psychiatrist in my insurance network (except for that awful psych nurse who loves benzos and hooked me on X). I cannot afford to ruffle him. But, if he is trying to force me into a 6-month taper that will likely be a disaster, I am inclined to try to surreptitiously ask my primary and hopefully make the switch back to her.

 

It's enough to just deal with tapering.  You don't need to be sparring with doctors on top of it.  Could you maybe let the primary know how you feel and your concern about being pushed and maybe ask if he/she would be a safety net if things didn't work out with the pdoc?

 

I can see the pdoc does not really fully understand what is fundamentally going on nor appreciate the consequences.

 

Yes, if you are on 1.1mg X six months would be miraculous.  It can easily go two years.  The last few mgs are typically very slow.

 

Yes, the sparring is nerve-wracking, especially since I can't really be openly sparring lest I ruffle his feathers. I put a message in to my primary about it via the nurse and am waiting.

 

I'm definitely not expecting any miracles in my taper. The taper got very painful below 1.3. I just started diluting and am now only cutting .002 every over day. I did the math, and, you're right, it will take almost 2 years!

 

I think my primary is more patient and she listens better than this guy does, so I'd really like to switch back to her if she would be comfortable prescribing psych meds. Crossing my fingers!

[[ga...]]

You are missing the point. If you want to do small cuts you need to dilute.  If you make a mistake without diluting it will hurt bad.  If you dilute first, you can much more accurately do cuts at whatever rate you want.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Why is this such a difficult concept for many people?

 

Because our brains are fried! 

[[ga...]]

 

I think I will be lucky to be done in a year because I have unavoidable circumstances that make the taper more difficult. I did "ask" him if he thought diluting was OK (had already started) and he agreed I could try that but he wants to see me next week to see if I am actually moving along. He also refused to allow my adult son come into the room with me. I felt I needed my son there as an extra pair of eyes and ears. My memory isn't the best, especially when I'm on edge, as I always am when I see this guy. The whole appointment made me very nervous.

 

 

 

Wow!! Unless there is some history of conflict there, I would be scared to death of any doc that refused to allow a family member to accompany you during an office visit. :o

 

No history of conflict at all. And he seemed so laid back up until yesterday. Now I am thinking that he has some hidden agenda and the laid back style is just a cover. 

Trying very hard to go back to my primary. Have to be careful what I message her though, because he can read my medical record.

[[ga...]]

Interesting that you mention klonopin. My primary did suggest that quite some time ago. Others on this forum have said K also so short-acting that it's not worth switching. Did you do a straight switch or a gradual switch and what ratio did you use? I've seen different opinions on equivalencies.

 

I talked to my primary's triage nurse this afternoon. She is going to message my primary to see if she would be comfortable taking over the prescribing again. I just pray the psychiatrist doesn't go snooping in my medical record and see what I asked! Gulp!

 

Ashton has Clonazepam = Xanax on equivalency.  So .5mg X = .5mg K.  BUT the half life for Xanax is 6-12 hours and the half life for K is 18-50 hours.  That is a big difference.  I see K as kind of a medium acting benzo.  Valium last longer but alot of people can't deal with the depressing effects of it.  Clonazepam has similar effects (at least they did for me).

 

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

 

As far as your phyciatrist, you need to find someone else to prescribe your meds and fire him/her.  Then find someone knew to analyze you if you still need counseling.

 

sharkey

 

Thanks for this info. I have heard from others that Valium is depressing. Would that be true of all long benzos? I was thinking of switching to Librium, but I don't need to add depression to the mix.

 

So, you're saying that X and K had similar effects so the switch would be easier and K wouldn't be depressing? And you found the K easier to taper than the X?

 

I have a separate therapist that I like and see regularly. This psychiatrist only does about 5 minutes of quick counseling and the rest of the time discussing meds.  It is almost humorous that this psychiatrist thinks he can do therapy on me that quickly, especially since he tends to not listen well!