Daily Micro-Tapering Support Group

[Guest [Ma...]]

Bart,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Reading through my journal, I was significantly more functional with "manageable" symtoms at .82 mgs.

I read that I pushed too fast, for my body, in the subsequent weeks. I went from "I've got this licked, let's speed up the taper rate" to "my legs are burning up, my lower back is broken and my head is threatening to implode."

I guess I'm staring at a potential answer in my journal.

 

Marija

 

 

[[ga...]]

Bart,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Reading through my journal, I was significantly more functional with "manageable" symtoms at .82 mgs.

I read that I pushed too fast, for my body, in the subsequent weeks. I went from "I've got this licked, let's speed up the taper rate" to "my legs are burning up, my lower back is broken and my head is threatening to implode."

I guess I'm staring at a potential answer in my journal.

 

Marija

 

Marija, I made updoses twice when I was so ill I couldn't even eat. Both times it took awhile for them to work, but they did and I got back to functioning again. I held a bit and then started tapering again, this time much, much slower.

 

I really feel for you on the burning legs thing. That has started up for me again. It's not as bad as before, so I'm going to press on with my snail taper of .002 every other day. I haven't done the math on that, but I fear I will be done tapering when I'm 102 years old!

 

The journal idea is great. I'm so glad it's helping you! Hope you're feeling better soon!

[Guest [Ma...]]

Bart,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Reading through my journal, I was significantly more functional with "manageable" symtoms at .82 mgs.

I read that I pushed too fast, for my body, in the subsequent weeks. I went from "I've got this licked, let's speed up the taper rate" to "my legs are burning up, my lower back is broken and my head is threatening to implode."

I guess I'm staring at a potential answer in my journal.

 

Marija

 

 

 

 

Marija, I made updoses twice when I was so ill I couldn't even eat. Both times it took awhile for them to work, but they did and I got back to functioning again. I held a bit and then started tapering again, this time much, much slower.

 

I really feel for you on the burning legs thing. That has started up for me again. It's not as bad as before, so I'm going to press on with my snail taper of .002 every other day. I haven't done the math on that, but I fear I will be done tapering when I'm 102 years old!

 

The journal idea is great. I'm so glad it's helping you! Hope you're feeling better soon!

Hi Gardener,

 

Thank you for the encouragement. Much needed. I've journaled for 3 years now, doses, times, symptoms, fallout, successes etc.  It has been helpful although painful to re-read. A reminder of a life interrupted.

I will come see you on your blog. Glad you got that started.

 

Hugs🌷

Marija

 

[[Be...]]

Hey Shaky

How are you doing since you stop tapering?  Are you having any wuthdrawals?

 

Ive had a few good days and a few bad days.  I have some new symptoms that come and go like tinnitus and for a few days it felt like someone was tinkling me with a feather randomly at night and was hard to sleep but that has gone away.  Today I had no physical symptoms at all!!  My cog fog is lifting and I feel a little better everyday.  I have some anxiety but mainly under stressful situations and i think, as I am benzo free, i will get better at handling those.  I am not in the clear yet but I am definitely seeing that this journey was worth it.

 

Sharkey,

 

Have you noticed any difference with regard to general fatigue?  That is one symptom that continues for me as I get lower in dosage.  I have also started noticing some tinnitus from time-to-time.  My other symptoms, cog fog, headaches and nausea have lessened as my dosage has gotten lower.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[sh...]]

Sharkey,

 

Have you noticed any difference with regard to general fatigue?  That is one symptom that continues for me as I get lower in dosage.  I have also started noticing some tinnitus from time-to-time.  My other symptoms, cog fog, headaches and nausea have lessened as my dosage has gotten lower.

 

Ben800,

 

I do have some fatigue.  If i can get to the gym 3 times a week i notice my fatique is not as bad.  Yes the tinnitus is new to me,  it started when i finished my taper but it comes and goes for me.  I think the fatique is just your body is tired from healing so i try not to focus on it.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

[[Ul...]]

Bart,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Reading through my journal, I was significantly more functional with "manageable" symtoms at .82 mgs.

I read that I pushed too fast, for my body, in the subsequent weeks. I went from "I've got this licked, let's speed up the taper rate" to "my legs are burning up, my lower back is broken and my head is threatening to implode."

I guess I'm staring at a potential answer in my journal.

 

Marija

 

I think you're right, Marija. I think you're right because it's YOUR answer. You're gradually finding what's right for you.

 

Keep hangin' in there!

[[ga...]]

 

I would agree with this and it was my experience essentially all the way down. I just tried to maintain a taper rate that gave me a few tolerable symptoms and kept this up until I was off and pretty close to healed. It was necessary to do lots of holding and small updoses here and there but it all worked out. IMO, it is possible, at least for some, to get off benzos without all the misery. I certainly had symptoms and it did take a long time, close to 2 years, but was well worth it for me.

 

Bart

 

Thanks so much for sharing, Bart. I am looking at a very slow taper and need all the encouragement I can get in the patience department!

 

G

[[ga...]]

Hey Buddies,

 

It's me again.  Sorry.

 

Just curious which is the best way to make the cut from my solution.  Do I take it from one of my 2 doses or take it from the the entire daily amount and then separate into 2 equal amounts.

 

Thanks,

doodle dog

 

 

 

 

Doodle dog, when I start my microtaper, I'm going to reduce from my total daily liquid and then divide by the number of doses.  I dose twice like you, so it should be simple.

 

By the way, our Italian Greyhound's name was Dante and his nickname was 'Doodle Dog'.  I love your screen name 

 

Bunny

 

Hello Bunny,

 

Thank you so much for your response.  I am not having a good day and can't think.  What you said makes total sense.

 

Yes, I call my nephew's dog doodle.  Then when I read the book "A Dog's Purpose", the dog was called doodle dog.  Sounds like Dante is no longer with you.  I'm so sorry.  I love dogs.

 

Thanks again and best wishes for a smooth taper.

doodle dog

 

Sorry to hear you're not feeing good, Doodle! May tomorrow be brighter! 

 

Thanks Gardener.  Yes, tomorrow will be brighter.  Tomorrow I make my first cut with the liquid.

 

Have a good week.  Love your blog.

doodle dog

 

We are newbies together! I just re-booted my micro taper with a slower schedule on Saturday. So far my symptoms have been manageable.

 

We Can Do This!

 

[[ga...]]

Bart,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Reading through my journal, I was significantly more functional with "manageable" symtoms at .82 mgs.

I read that I pushed too fast, for my body, in the subsequent weeks. I went from "I've got this licked, let's speed up the taper rate" to "my legs are burning up, my lower back is broken and my head is threatening to implode."

I guess I'm staring at a potential answer in my journal.

 

Marija

 

 

 

 

Marija, I made updoses twice when I was so ill I couldn't even eat. Both times it took awhile for them to work, but they did and I got back to functioning again. I held a bit and then started tapering again, this time much, much slower.

 

I really feel for you on the burning legs thing. That has started up for me again. It's not as bad as before, so I'm going to press on with my snail taper of .002 every other day. I haven't done the math on that, but I fear I will be done tapering when I'm 102 years old!

 

The journal idea is great. I'm so glad it's helping you! Hope you're feeling better soon!

Hi Gardener,

 

Thank you for the encouragement. Much needed. I've journaled for 3 years now, doses, times, symptoms, fallout, successes etc.  It has been helpful although painful to re-read. A reminder of a life interrupted.

I will come see you on your blog. Glad you got that started.

 

Hugs🌷

Marija

 

Yes, I am now a blogger! It is out of my comfort zone, for sure, but not so much that I'm freaking out about it (yet). I just hope the micro-t gang considers it their blog, too. The more other people post, the less I will feel I need to come up with something intelligent to say every day. It took me hours just to make those introduction posts! I kept editing and editing. You'd think I was going for a Pulitzer! 

[Guest [Ma...]]

Lol!!!  Love it!!!

 

Hugs

[[Be...]]

Sharkey,

 

Have you noticed any difference with regard to general fatigue?  That is one symptom that continues for me as I get lower in dosage.  I have also started noticing some tinnitus from time-to-time.  My other symptoms, cog fog, headaches and nausea have lessened as my dosage has gotten lower.

 

Ben800,

 

I do have some fatigue.  If i can get to the gym 3 times a week i notice my fatique is not as bad.  Yes the tinnitus is new to me,  it started when i finished my taper but it comes and goes for me.  I think the fatique is just your body is tired from healing so i try not to focus on it.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey

 

Thanks for the feedback Sharkey.  It sounds like fatigue has lessened since you finished your taper.  I also workout, 4-5 times a week regardless of fatigue.  I don't let fatigue hold me back, but would certainly prefer not to have it.  I have to say that I am generally pleased with my titration taper.  My symptoms have generally lessened overall as I have gotten to lower doses.  Most notably cog fog has lessened and I feel my mind functioning much more sharply especially in the mornings.

[[...]]

I know this is about microtapering but has anyone developed ringing in the ears while tapering.  My seems to get louder as I taper. And if so has yours ringing decreased after finishing your taper.

[[bu...]]

Tinnitus is possibly the most common WD symptom.

[[Mo...]]

I know this is about microtapering but has anyone developed ringing in the ears while tapering.  My seems to get louder as I taper. And if so has yours ringing decreased after finishing your taper.

 

Hi,

I had horrendous tinnitus, starting when I was about 1/4 into my taper. I'm now al oat at the end and it's gotten a lot better. I don't have it 24/7 anymore and when it comes on it doesn't stay that long anymore.

It was the worst when I went too quick/ fast. That was my first sign to take it easy and hold a few days. Usually that did the trick for ME.

So many people get this...

Although it is very very annoying, it's not uncommon at all. 

[[Mo...]]

Sorry builder, posted at the same time.

 

[[mi...]]

After Sharkey and Bulider helped me figure out liquid triation, I confess I still haven't actually started it. But I have found my way down from 3 mg Klonopin to 2 mg. by dry cutting.Its now almost three weeks and I did it in about a month . I have more confidence now in the timming of everything because I've got my doctor on board. My next script is for 75 1mgs.  so I should be ahead and he'll be pleased. i'll be able to get the .05's whenever I want.  One person said wow how could you cut that much that fast.One thing is I'd only been on the 3 mgs. about two months. I had been at 2 mg. for a couple of months in the winter, but after having sleep issues and  some side effects such as aniexty during the day,I asked the doctor to go up from60 to 90 a month so I could "stablize"and try to start working again. Bad idea, 3 mgs left me tired and un motivated the next day. So I started cuting the 1 mg pill in quarters and just went along using less at about one week interveals, this took a little more than a month and I thought I was good at ten days 2mg. no more but Sharkey recomended wait another wekk. Well I have  had this weird neausa during the day but not much else. Anyway I 99% sure i want to start a micro taper from 2 mg K soon and want to dry the filing method with the scale. I'll save the liquid for near the end like Sharkey. Clona just gave me the math recently but I can't find it looking back. Would someone pleas recommend a reduction weight with measuring the pills. One  Qualitest 1 mg klonopin weighs .204 grams

 

[[bu...]]

After Sharkey and Bulider helped me figure out liquid triation, I confess I still haven't actually started it. But I have found my way down from 3 mg Klonopin to 2 mg. by dry cutting.Its now almost three weeks and I did it in about a month . I have more confidence now in the timming of everything because I've got my doctor on board. My next script is for 75 1mgs.  so I should be ahead and he'll be pleased. i'll be able to get the .05's whenever I want.  One person said wow how could you cut that much that fast.One thing is I'd only been on the 3 mgs. about two months. I had been at 2 mg. for a couple of months in the winter, but after having sleep issues and  some side effects such as aniexty during the day,I asked the doctor to go up from60 to 90 a month so I could "stablize"and try to start working again. Bad idea, 3 mgs left me tired and un motivated the next day. So I started cuting the 1 mg pill in quarters and just went along using less at about one week interveals, this took a little more than a month and I thought I was good at ten days 2mg. no more but Sharkey recomended wait another wekk. Well I have  had this weird neausa during the day but not much else. Anyway I 99% sure i want to start a micro taper from 2 mg K soon and want to dry the filing method with the scale. I'll save the liquid for near the end like Sharkey. Clona just gave me the math recently but I can't find it looking back. Would someone pleas recommend a reduction weight with measuring the pills. One  Qualitest 1 mg klonopin weighs .204 grams

 

Whatever % cut you want to taper, that's the % you remove from the tablet. 

 

If you want to cut 10% from your 1mg tablet that weighs 204mg, then you want to remove approx 20mg.  That leaves you with a tablet that weighs approx 180-184mg, and (theoretically) contains .9mg K.

[[...]]

I know this is about microtapering but has anyone developed ringing in the ears while tapering.  My seems to get louder as I taper. And if so has yours ringing decreased after finishing your taper.

 

Yes, it happened every time I did a C/H. Now with micro tapering it comes and goes. I have some hearing problems and I wonder if they are from 14+ years of Xanax (as prescribed) use because I have noticed I am hearing a little better as I have titrated down from 2mg to .44mg. Things I couldn't hear before, like when the oven clicks to start, I can hear it now.YAY

[[Ba...]]

 

I have no idea if I am doing this right or not, but here goes....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I need help with a liquid klonopin taper.  I am completely confused by the math.

 

I am currently taking .5mg in the morning and .5mg at night.

 

My doctor wrote my prescription for compounded liquid Klonopin amd i picked it up today.  The pharmacist gave me a 50ml bottle and a 1 ml syringe. 

 

Each 1 ml is equivalent to .5mg of Klonopin. 

 

The syring is broken down in increments of 2.  Meaning it goes from 1 ml to 98 to 96 to 94, etc etc.

 

 

So, if i go from a full 1ml syringe (.5mg) to .98 on the syringe, what percentage of a reduction am i making?

 

My goal is 1% a day for 7 days then hold. 

 

Any help at all is appreciated.

 

Also, the simpler the better because i am SOOO bad with math and numbers. 

 

Thankls in advance.

 

The first thing that jumps out is your liquid is quite concentrated and that will make accuracy poor.  .5mg/ml means each of you .02ml ticks on the barrel are .010mg K and are 2% of .5mg.

 

It would be good to dilute it down to something like .01mg/ml which is 50 times weaker.  o you know what the liquid is?

 

Also, I would not recommend beginning with 1% a day cuts.  That is quite large.  At your dose I might pick .002mg as a starting point, which is .2%.  It is a good idea to begin slow and establish a successful cut, then build on that success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, im really lost now.      What do you mean my bottle is really concentrated.?  In my simple way of thi king if i have a 50ml bottle and each 1ml syringe is .5mg of Klonopin then the entire bottle holds 25mg of klonopin........  Or is there some sort of chemistry/math here that i am unaware of.  Im certain there is. 

 

So, each little line is a 2% cut and not a 1% cut?  That makes more sense since there are 50 lines on the syringe.

 

The rest I am totally lost on in regards to the concentration, etc. 

 

I have no idea what is in the bottle other than it says 50ml Klonopin and the directions of the prescribing physician which says cut .1 mil a day.      My doctor and I discussed doing 1 percent a day for 7 days then holding if I need to.  She has agreed to let me have some leeway on the tapering but wont let me go past 6 minths.

 

Now, i just thought of this, if I did the 2% reduction from just one of my daily doses, isnt that in essence a 1% reduction of my full 1mg daily dose?

 

All so confusing.

 

My mind is bouncing around, but I will add that i am taking a full syring this morning to see if it is stronger or weaker than taking the pill I normally take. 

 

I also have no idea how to move this to the micro taper thread or link it there, so Im going to cut and paste and call this thread closed I guess.

 

Thanks

 

b

[[...]]

 

I have no idea if I am doing this right or not, but here goes....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I need help with a liquid klonopin taper.  I am completely confused by the math.

 

I am currently taking .5mg in the morning and .5mg at night.

 

My doctor wrote my prescription for compounded liquid Klonopin amd i picked it up today.  The pharmacist gave me a 50ml bottle and a 1 ml syringe. 

 

Each 1 ml is equivalent to .5mg of Klonopin. 

 

The syring is broken down in increments of 2.  Meaning it goes from 1 ml to 98 to 96 to 94, etc etc.

 

 

So, if i go from a full 1ml syringe (.5mg) to .98 on the syringe, what percentage of a reduction am i making?

 

My goal is 1% a day for 7 days then hold. 

 

Any help at all is appreciated.

 

Also, the simpler the better because i am SOOO bad with math and numbers. 

 

Thankls in advance.

 

The first thing that jumps out is your liquid is quite concentrated and that will make accuracy poor.  .5mg/ml means each of you .02ml ticks on the barrel are .010mg K and are 2% of .5mg.

 

It would be good to dilute it down to something like .01mg/ml which is 50 times weaker.  o you know what the liquid is?

 

Also, I would not recommend beginning with 1% a day cuts.  That is quite large.  At your dose I might pick .002mg as a starting point, which is .2%.  It is a good idea to begin slow and establish a successful cut, then build on that success.

 

Ok, im really lost now.      What do you mean my bottle is really concentrated.?  In my simple way of thi king if i have a 50ml bottle and each 1ml syringe is .5mg of Klonopin then the entire bottle holds 25mg of klonopin........  Or is there some sort of chemistry/math here that i am unaware of.  Im certain there is. 

 

So, each little line is a 2% cut and not a 1% cut?  That makes more sense since there are 50 lines on the syringe.

 

The rest I am totally lost on in regards to the concentration, etc. 

 

I have no idea what is in the bottle other than it says 50ml Klonopin and the directions of the prescribing physician which says cut .1 mil a day.      My doctor and I discussed doing 1 percent a day for 7 days then holding if I need to.  She has agreed to let me have some leeway on the tapering but wont let me go past 6 minths.

 

Now, i just thought of this, if I did the 2% reduction from just one of my daily doses, isnt that in essence a 1% reduction of my full 1mg daily dose?

 

All so confusing.

 

My mind is bouncing around, but I will add that i am taking a full syring this morning to see if it is stronger or weaker than taking the pill I normally take. 

 

I also have no idea how to move this to the micro taper thread or link it there, so Im going to cut and paste and call this thread closed I guess.

 

Thanks

 

b

 

It's great your K is in liquid form.  That will help your taper a lot.  By "concentrated" I meant that they packed a lot of K into each ml so when you go to measure and cut it is less accurate.  The beauty of liquid is they can be diluted and you would really benefit from diluting.

 

Does it say on the label or can you call the pharmacy to find out what the liquid is?

 

The fact that your doc is imposing a six month limit is a sign she does not understand benzos.  It is not a choice.  It is physical healing that will happen in its own time.  Forcing the taper into a predetermine timeframe is not a good idea at all.  It will take what it takes and I won't say it is impossible that you can get rid of 1mg K in six months, but it is not likely.  1-2 years would be more likely.

 

Yes, 2% form one doe is 1% of both doses.  You did a good job getting the thread moved.

 

[[Ba...]]

SG, thank you so much for your help and verifying that I do still have a few brain cells and that my math is correct.

 

I guess i am confused on what you mean by it is very concentrated.  How can you tell what the concentrarion is? Because it says 50ml on the bottle or because it says .5mg to 1ml.      I dont understand.      I am also confused on watering it down.    This would dilute it and then how would one know how much to take?

 

Is that why you would need to know what is in the bottle?    I guess i assumed they just compounded 25mg of Klonopin into some sort of suspension using whatever they use ( that was very articulate) and that it was a true .5mg to 1ml ratio.

 

Im hearing you say that is not the case, correct?

 

 

Again, all so confusing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Editing:    I guess what im asking is are you saying that there is actually MORE than .5mg per 1 Ml in that bottle?        Like I said, brain isnt working right or understanding any of this. 

 

 

As for my doctor, she and i both agreed on 6 months, this was actually a very good thing since she had originally said 2 weeks.    My jaw hit the floor when she said that.  But i was prepared as i had brought her all of my research from psychology today, the NIH, dr peter breggins and various other reputable sources that say slower is better.

 

 

 

[[We...]]

Marija,

 

I also updosed when my symptoms were so bad I couldn't eat, was vomiting etc (all this from an uniformed taper--way too fast). It helped me be able to eat and function again, even though I never 'stabilized' fully.

 

Good luck to you,

Shan

[[We...]]

Hi BB's

 

I'd like to ask a question to all the gram scalers on this thread. I do plan on doing the liquid titration, but I am curious about people using the scales to micro taper. I know there was some debate about the Gemini scales accuracy, but I'd love to hear personal testimony and experience. Especially as people are microtapering and getting to lower doses, and especially if anyone is doing a shorter acting benzo, like Ativan, where cuts can be noticed immediately. any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

hugs,

shan/wecan

[[Mo...]]

Shan, I used the Gemini scales when still on Ativan.

You go with the weight of your pills and not the mgr of you active ingredient of your pills.

I shaved of a bit with a nail file each day.

 

The scales fluctuate a bit. I could weigh a pill and it'd say 23 mgr. then I weighed it again and the scales said 22 mgr.

so, it wasn't THAT accurate for me. And I found the Filing a lot of work.

I took the average of my pills and went with that.

 

 

 

[[sh...]]

SG, thank you so much for your help and verifying that I do still have a few brain cells and that my math is correct.

 

I guess i am confused on what you mean by it is very concentrated.  How can you tell what the concentrarion is? Because it says 50ml on the bottle or because it says .5mg to 1ml.      I dont understand.      I am also confused on watering it down.    This would dilute it and then how would one know how much to take?

 

Is that why you would need to know what is in the bottle?    I guess i assumed they just compounded 25mg of Klonopin into some sort of suspension using whatever they use ( that was very articulate) and that it was a true .5mg to 1ml ratio.

 

Im hearing you say that is not the case, correct?

 

 

Again, all so confusing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Editing:    I guess what im asking is are you saying that there is actually MORE than .5mg per 1 Ml in that bottle?        Like I said, brain isnt working right or understanding any of this. 

 

 

As for my doctor, she and i both agreed on 6 months, this was actually a very good thing since she had originally said 2 weeks.    My jaw hit the floor when she said that.  But i was prepared as i had brought her all of my research from psychology today, the NIH, dr peter breggins and various other reputable sources that say slower is better.

 

I think by saying your liquid is very concentrated.  SG is just saying if you drink the whole 50ml it would probably put you in a comma.  In that sense it is very concentrated.  To do a daily liquid taper you dilute so you will start by taking 50-100ml a day.

 

If i was you this is what i would do:

 

take 2ml of your liquid K (1mg)

Dilute with 98ml of water

This will make 100ml/1mg K solution

Then you can reduce by .05ml/.005mg a day

So Day 1:  100ml

Day 2: 99.5ml

Day 3: 99ml

Day 4: 98.5ml

And so on...

 

That would take you a little over 6 months.  You may want to be prepared to slow down when you get to a lower dose also.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Stay strong!

sharkey