Post Benzo Freedom Withdrawal Support Group

[[ve...]]

Hi Guys,

 

I don't write here much...but today I am 6 months off.  And I am so sick.  Nausea, adrenaline, inner trembling, intrusive thoughts, nerve pain...you name it.  I actually for the first time, officially feel worse than my taper.  how is this possible after a proper taper and good CLEAN eating.  No alcohol, not even a sip.  Only water.  I just so discouraged.  I DO believe I'll get better, but when?  Did any of you get even worse this far out, and for how long?  It can't last forever.

Love and hugs,

Schatje

 

Hi Schatje.  Sorry to read about your recent wave at six months.  Yes, I personally had a setback at around 8 months out.  That being said, I believe it was related to an inordinate amount of family stress combined with getting back into more of a "partying" lifestyle while on vacation in summer 2010.  Nothing too over the top, but maybe two drinks three times a week for a few weeks plus more sugar, soda, coffee and junk food consumption than would be best for anyone.  Anyway, I think others can weigh in and have posted about some mini waves at around 6 months off.  It seems like months 9-12 have much healing potential in them .

 

Best wishes,

 

Vertigo

[[An...]]

I agree with Vertigo and the others, Schatje

 

I had a breakthrough at 7.5 months and although have had a mini-wave since, I am definitely seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Hang in there!

 

Angel 

[[mt...]]

HI Schatje and all

Schatje I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling so bad.  It can be so frustrating to hit a wall and find ourselves back in benzo hell.  It seems that many experience this set back from time to time but in the end we all move forward.  I send you my prayers for some well deserved relief and healing.  Keep up your "clean" living.  Your body is doing an enormous job of healing and it needs all the help it can get. 

 

As for my own current status quo I am feeling some good relief from taking the supplement Seriphos for my elevated cortisol.  My last blood tests revealed early am levels elevated (only took early am level) but I can tell the levels increase with evening as I get a second wind and stay up late getting things done.  After 6pm is when I have the most energy.  Of course this is just the opposite of what it should be "normally".  To confirm my suspicions I would need to take some saliva tests throughout the day to get an accurate assessment of 24 hour cortisol levels but I am fairly sure based on how I am feeling that I am experiencing spikes.  To lower these levels my research points to the HPS Axis dysfunction, common with Benzo use.    When under stress the Pituitary sends signals to adrenals to release cortisol.  When we are under consistent levels of stress the pituitary can get stuck in the "on" position (kinda like a gas pedal) which sends the adrenals in to overdrive and eventual "burnout".  Many reports lead me to take Seriphos (a form of Phosphatidyl Serine) as it is "calms" the signal from Pituitary to adrenals.

 

I am taking the smallest dose (500mg)  for about 3 weeks now at about 9pm and my evening energy is starting to wind down.  Less tinnitus and a general feeling of winding down instead of ramping up.  Initially I felt some general agitation after taking but that has gone away.  I also added some Magnesium citrate at bedtime for overall calming effect.  My thinking and organizational skills are much much clearer and feel more able to tolerate stress.  The best part is I am having some beautiful peaceful dreams.

 

Last night to begin to address my serotonin levels which can also be drained from stress and lifestyle- I added 500mg of L tryptophan.  I am reading the book The Mood Cure and actually spoke the the author while in the middle of my taper (a friend of a friend).  She runs a clinic in the next town and she advised me to keep on with my taper and to come and see her once done if I felt I needed any additional help.  To celebrate my 1 year anniversary next month I may go and see her and get evaluated.  After reading her book I think I was already struggling with Adrenal Fatigue and some overall burnout that led me to taking a Benzo in the first place.  In my case I think some focus on restoring the health of my neurotransmitters as well as adrenals may well be in order.  Too many years of dieting, menopause, family crisis's and the general stress of living and aging was the perfect storm that has wreaked havoc on my poor body and brain.  And NOW on top of it all- it has spent almost 3 years recovering from benzo withdrawal.  I would like to do all I can to promote futher healing...but of course want to proceed VERY CAREFULLY.  Still I don't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water" and refuse any supplement or regime that might help me.

 

I will keep you all informed of my progress. Of course what works for one may not be the answer for another.  I have a renewed understanding and appreciation of our unique history and biology after reading this book.  It does give me some hope that I can support and restore my neurotransmitter function and consequently overall health- given the right "brain food". 

 

On another note it is finally raining out here in California and that in itself is a cause for celebration.  Think I will go have a cup of tea on the front porch and enjoy the sound of the raindrops!!

 

All my best to you.

Mimi

 

 

[[gi...]]

Schatje,

 

Feeling worse at 6 months than you did while tapering is not uncommon. I didn't get slammed until one month after my last dose, and then at month 3 I got steamrolled. It was another 3 months before I could begin to function moderately. It was 18 months before I really felt like I'd gotten the worst behind me.

 

It sucks but this is how it is. Hang tough.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=89d99b952a0543329ee2db75999cd409&topic=37664.0

 

ginger

[[gi...]]

John, you're right: damn those torpedoes! 

[[ve...]]

I think I was already struggling with Adrenal Fatigue and some overall burnout that led me to taking a Benzo in the first place.  In my case I think some focus on restoring the health of my neurotransmitters as well as adrenals may well be in order.  Too many years of dieting, menopause, family crisis's and the general stress of living and aging was the perfect storm that has wreaked havoc on my poor body and brain.  And NOW on top of it all- it has spent almost 3 years recovering from benzo withdrawal.  I would like to do all I can to promote futher healing...but of course want to proceed VERY CAREFULLY.  Still I don't want to "throw the baby out with the bath water" and refuse any supplement or regime that might help me.

I will keep you all informed of my progress. Of course what works for one may not be the answer for another.

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi.  Great to hear your update.  I can relate to the issue of  fatigue and the need to consider the pre existing state one was in before one took a benzo.  Also, how after a benzo taper (or c/t for that matter), the journey may progress from high states of anxiety and/or cortisol (along with some fatigue), then to some form of stabilizing (perhaps at or around 4 to 7 months) resulting in an observable diminishing of  heightened states, yet still not fully eliminated or  feeling fully  balanced in the first year.

 

Various attempts at dieting, exercising and dealing with re-engagement in more activity in life can then cause some setbacks and a recognition that the brain and body may still need more healing and balance.  Extraodinary difficult situations might lead one to believe that one reacts to stress a little differently in the first year after going off the benzo.  Some have posted about being more "vulnerable to stress" and I can relate to this.  Whether it's feeling more fragile during travel or some family or work situation, some have noticed that it takes less tumult to get to a place of "over reaction".

 

And there is the question as to how "balanced" one was or "wasn't" BEFORE the benzo.  In my case, I have posted off and on this thread that I had mild to moderate anxiety and some intermittent situational and seasonal blues for several years before I took that first valium in 2008.  In my case, it goes back at least 5 years to my father's diagnosis of cancer around 2006 when life became more difficult and stressful. 

 

I have debated whether to try something like St. John's Wort (no pun intended ).  Then I thought better of it when I saw the potential side effects, one of them being vertigo!  On the other hand, something like L-Tryptophan might be worth exploring.  I will be curious to read about how it impacts you Mimi.  I think something is still not quite balanced for me at 24 months, but I don't think it can be "blamed on the benzo", more of the pre existing state I was in before I took the benzo.  Sleep is better than it was when I first took that valium 4 1/2 years ago.  I fall asleep very easily and no longer wake up at 2 or 3AM as I had been doing that Spring of 2008.  However, I tend to awaken around 5 or 5:30AM which is about 90 minutes to 2 hours before I actually need to get up, even on weekends.  My doctor thinks this is anxiety related and has occasionally suggested lexapro which I do not wish to use.  He's a pill pusher and I really probably need to find another doctor.  Anyway, recovery is not perfect.  The fact is that at least for some of us, it might be worth taking a look at how one's health was before the benzo and try to address those issues with whatever might help, whether it may be better nutrition, less sugar or caffeine,  moderate exercise (but not too much), meditation, yoga and yes, perhaps some supplements could be helpful.

 

All my best,

 

Vertigo

 

[[gi...]]

I take l-tryptophan and l-theanine for sleep. The combination (I take 2x the normal amount of trypt, fyi) knocks me out. L-theanine helps hubby with his anxiety, but he can't take it all the time b/c it knocks him out. It makes me feel drunk. 

 

Anyway, I've averaged 4 hours sleep/night for 3 years now. I usually wake up 1-2 hours after falling asleep and then catch the last 2 hours around 4. My current jet lag has me sleeping about 45 minutes.

 

I'll sleep when I'm dead.

 

g

 

 

[[mt...]]

Hi vertigo and all,

In reading the book The Mood Cure I was very interested in the author's thoughts on serotonin and how and why levles are depleted.  There are 3 other major neurotransmitters she addresses as well which are also depleted via stress, diet and drug use (whether prescribed or not).  And many of us may start out with low levels based on genetics.  Her theory and experience points to using Amino acids to restore these transmitter "reservoirs".  SSRI's simply "restrict" our existing serotonin so it is isolated for the brain but they do not help with rebuilding the "reservoir" and over time these reservoirs run out if not replenished with diet and/or supplementation.  Which explains why AD's lose their effectiveness over time. 

 

You can pick up her books The Diet Cure and The Mood Cure on amazon (I bought the Source Natural L-tryptophan 500mg there as well).  She advises starting with L-tryptophan and moving to 5htp then St John Wort and finally SAM E but only proceed if the L-Tryptophan does not work.  L-trytophan being the closest to what we get in food form.  She also advises that you will know immediately if a that particular amino is not working for you as you will get headaches and feel off and if that is the case to just stop taking it.  In fact the only way to know what amino you need is through taking the tests in the book which points to where you are lacking and then trying the amino to see if you get relief.  I do notice I am having vivid pleasant dreams with deep sleep.  Sleep has not been a big issue for me but waking feeling funky and low fatigue are the main culprits.  I have taken it for 2 nights and no headache so I am moving forward and assessing each day.   

 

Ginger I may try some theanine next-but moving adding one thing at a time and giving myself a few weeks before adding another.  Glad it helps you get some sleep-I need at solid 7 hours or I feel like crap...good news is I normally get it!

 

Anyway will let you know how I progress and give you the information in case anyone is interested.

 

Its raining pretty steady out here and that is more good news!  Hopefully we will have some green lush hills for you to check out on your next visit!!

 

Mimi

 

PS Made my first batch of homemade yogurt today...working on getting my gut flora back in shape!!

[[Li...]]

Mimi I love reading about the things you are trying! I really want to start making kefir but am kind of terrified. I have not been good at juicing or green smoothies, and I really haven't been feeling great the last month. I really think I should just take the plunge and start eating better. I don't quite know what is holding me back.

 

How much is the Seriphos? I wonder if it would help me...main symptoms right now are fatigue, headaches, low energy, sometimes insomnia and crankiness that comes and goes. Overall though, I'm just tired...

 

Libby

[[gi...]]

Hi mimi,

 

Be careful using 5htp should that be your next step. Every BB I know who's taken it has gotten slammed with a resurgence of symptoms that sets them back for weeks. I'm not saying not to take it; I just want you to be informed of bb's experiences.

 

ginger

[[mt...]]

Hi Ginger

Yes I agree I have read the same stories concerning 5htp, St Johns Wort and Sam E.  L-tryptophan is a better choice as it closest to how we recieve it via our food.  I am a bit more resistant when it comes to herbs as I am pretty sensitive.  And the L tryptophan seems to be working fine. I am only taking 500mg at bedtime with NO protein 1.5 hours before or after as it blocks absorption)  I read we get about 500mg from a large serving of turkey.  I may bump up to 2 caps if I believe I need more.

 

Hi Libby Seriphos is more for folks that are experiencing high cortisol levels.  I had a complete blood work up and all looked well except cortisol was a bit high.  Cortisol is not a good thing for the body when it is elevated for long intervals...it can cause inflammation and adrenal burn out.  I knew my cortisol was running high in the evenings as I was getting night time energy rushes.  About 6pm I am ready to mop the floors etc!  Levels should be dropping in the evening as the body begins to get ready to sleep.  The Seriphos has really helped and I am much more mellow in the evenings and tinnitus in almost gone.  I skip a night or 2 each week and will take a break after a month.

 

You may want to give the L-tryptophan a try and see if it helps with sleep and mood.  I bought mine off of Amazon...you can check out her book there as well.  There is a free preview so you can read some excerpts and see if it is something you might be interested in exploring.  Wish we had a BB book exchange!

 

I just ordered my Kefir grains and will give that a whirl next.  My first batch of yogurt turned out great! I let it "cook" for 24 hours per the SCD diet recommendations and then I added a small taste of fresh honey (from a friend's hive) and a splash of vanilla and it tastes great.  I think tomorrow I will cook some blueberries with lemon and some honey and make some topping so I can eat it for dessert. 

I am also trying to avoid white sugar and wheat flour so hopefully the yogurt can be my treat...course according to the book once i get my serotonin back on track I won't "crave" sweets!

 

Still raining steady and I am thankful the plants and trees are getting a long awaited shower...hope they are sucking it up as it looks it will be dry once again once this passes.

 

Happy Friday to all

Mimi

[[ve...]]

Sounds like some good information to consider, Mimi.  I might give the L Tryptophan a try, can't hurt.  I'll research it a bit more and maybe check out that book.  It would be nice if I could sleep straight for seven hours instead of six.  I suppose the other option might be to eat some turkey at night? But is it not good to have protein before bed?  Maybe some turkey an hour and a half before bed is in order?  I recall in the book "Potatoes, not Prozac" the author talked about not eating protein before bed.  Sounds like a good idea to get the gut in order too.  I am still doing the green smoothies three or four times a week with Greek yogurt, blueberries, banana, walnuts, rice bran and sometimes some protein powder.  I think some of the green powders and/or protein powders have extra amino acids in them too.  I like the idea though of only adding one at a time to really see if there is a difference.  I alternate supergreen products since some are milder than others, some have spirulina and other algae or things that may not be great for the liver on a daily basis...  Anyway, I'm not complaining since getting six solid hours of sleep is pretty decent.  There's always room for improvement though .

 

Go Niners .

 

Vertigo

[[...]]

Hi Thanks so much, everyone, for the helpful info. 

 

i just wanted to ask - well, first, this month 7 is enormously better than my previous months and i am so thankful i can hardly stand it.  i  still wake up sick-ish and have mild depression and fatigue, but the exremity of how sick i felt has so lessened.  i am having some great days.  and my gratitude level toward life has been enhanced so much

 

however - my muscles in my left leg are spasming like crazy.  all over the leg from the knee down.  it hurts a lot and i have to limp around.  i do have a weak knee but one doctor said it is the muscles spasming for some reason.

 

have an appt with a different orthopoedic surgeon but thinking maybe a neurologist.

 

seems i read on here that the physical stuff gets worse near the later months?

and that benzos were muscle relaxers as well and this is w/d?

 

could not tolerate a knee surgery...

 

thanks so much for being there.

u guys are so great

[[ve...]]

Hi Thanks so much, everyone, for the helpful info.  i just wanted to ask - well, first, this month 7 is enormously better than my previous months and i am so thankful i can hardly stand it.  i  still wake up sick-ish and have mild depression and fatigue, but the exremity of how sick i felt has so lessened.  i am having some great days.  and my gratitude level toward life has been enhanced so muchhowever - my muscles in my left leg are spasming like crazy.  all over the leg from the knee down.  it hurts a lot and i have to limp around.  i do have a weak knee but one doctor said it is the muscles spasming for some reason.

have an appt with a different orthopoedic surgeon but thinking maybe a neurologist.seems i read on here that the physical stuff gets worse near the later months?and that benzos were muscle relaxers as well and this is w/d?

could not tolerate a knee surgery...thanks so much for being there.

u guys are so great

 

Hi Pan. Great news that you're starting to see more meaningful and lasting windows in your recovery.  I don't know that I would say things get worse in the later months.  I think it's natural that if one starts to become more active, perhaps travel more, take more on workwise or some might go back to try a cocktail or two, these things can stir things up a little (no pun intended).  Since it is probably adviseable to stay away from liquor for the first six months to a year if not longer, then it would be in the later months that one might choose to try a drink or two (assuming you're not abstaining which I seem to recall you might be).  But it doesn't have to be alcohol that might escalate activity. As I said, travel or family trips, increase in work, financial or relationship issues can come up any time and get the old stress meter going.  I agree, by the way, that knee surgery would be a bit much to handle right now.  I've heard that it can really take a toll physically and from the pain killers needed.  Only as a last resort and on doctor's orders! By the way, the Toyota Scion is  a very affordable car which is easy to get in and out of for those with knee troubles.  I've also heard the Prius sits high as well as the old PT Cruisers which they stopped making .  Some people like the Honda CRV or Subaru Forester but unless you are tall, it can be difficult climb into those. I just did some research for a family member who had knee surgery recently .

 

Take care,

 

Vertigo

[[...]]

Hi! I'm a relatively new member here. As my siggy says I went from mild situational anxiety prior to meds to almost psychosis on meds. I was tried on 14 different psych meds (including 2 benzos for 10 weeks) over a 6 month period...I've been off all meds for 1 month and 3 weeks and I am suffering tremendously with mostly mental sx's...almost everything you can think of I've had it...sometimes I even think it's bordering psychosis again  

 

Anyway just wanted to say hi and thank every BB for their support in this very difficult journey...every day I want to give up but my family keeps me alive...

[[...]]

thanks verti - you are so full of great information.  the only s/x that is worse is the muscle spasm stuff really.  great info on the cars

u r so right how i still get revved up easily at times.

xoxo

 

m - we are here for you.  we know what u r going thru.  keep holding on.  so glad u have supportive family

[[ve...]]

thanks verti - you are so full of great information.  the only s/x that is worse is the muscle spasm stuff really.  great info on the cars u r so right how i still get revved up easily at times.

xoxo

 

m - we are here for you.  we know what u r going thru.  keep holding on.  so glad u have supportive family

 

Hi Pan.  Yea, I get revved up too sometimes, like my 12 year old car   .  This summer is going to be a great time for you with school out and hitting the 12 month mark, maybe you can celebrate with a nice trip?

 

MMIR. Hang in there.  If you feel that you might be bordering psychosis, it might be a good idea to check with your doctor.  Some of the other medications, like benzos, need to be tapered, preferably under doctor supervision, as well.

 

Hey Mimi. I checked out the Mood Cure book online. It looks interesting .

 

Best wishes,

 

Vertigo

[[gi...]]

From what I've read 1/2 lb warm turkey or 2 C warm milk = 500mg l-tryptophan.

You're never supposed to eat within 2 hours of sleep.  All that being said, taking a trypto tab is better for you than eating that amount of food or having to pee out a cup of milk several hours later.

sweet dreams!

ginger

[[ve...]]

From what I've read 1/2 lb warm turkey or 2 C warm milk = 500mg l-tryptophan.

You're never supposed to eat within 2 hours of sleep.  All that being said, taking a trypto tab is better for you than eating that amount of food or having to pee out a cup of milk several hours later.

sweet dreams!

ginger

 

lol. Yea, I wouldn't drink the milk before bed anyway, might lead to a post nasal drip .

[[mt...]]

Hi guys,

Pan I have had plantar plantar fasciitis in my left foot since I stepped off.  It was SO bad a few months ago I could barely walk.  I did try some arnica cream I found on Amazon (read reviews) and over the past few months it has gotten better to the point I hardly notice it.  I also had someone recommend magnesium oil?  I think with time it just got better on its own.  Do you take magnesium orally as an oil, or some epsom bath salts...all supposed to help with muscle spasms.  Hope you get some relief soon!

 

mmir sorry to hear you are still struggling.  You are very early in your recovery from so many drugs in a rather short time.  Continue to baby yourself and know that we are all here to support you.  I had more "emotional" symptoms than physical.  Alot of crying and focusing on every single frickin negative thing that ever happened to me.  It was hard to stop my mind from looping back to all the negativity...drove me nuts at times I was just SO NEGATIVE...and nasty at times. So...  I watched TV alot (early on with sound off on the days I was too sensitive), stayed in bed, played card games and Majong on the computer and tried to distract myself.  Are warm baths soothing to you?  When I was very anxious I would put my hand on my stomach and make myself breath and watch my hand move up and down with each breathe.  Helped some...  Hang in there...each day is a step forward in your healing.  Its hard to be brave when you are anxious but sounds like you have had a few windows and that is a GREAT sign of more to come.  If your body did it once it can do it again!

 

Hi vertigo glad you checked out the book.  Check out the Diet Cure book as well.  I remember when you reduced your calories last year you got hit with the "blues" which is just what she says will happen.  Dieting also reduces serotonin etc.  I am liking this L trytophan!!  Sleeping and dreaming like a baby!  And you said it first... GO NINERS!

 

Gotta get some sleep so I am up and rooting for the Homeboys!

Nite nite

Mimi

 

 

 

[[ve...]]

Hi Mimi.  My mother in law swears by arnica cream for her knees and other ailments.  Yes, I dieted too quickly a year ago and paid a price.  Now I've gained back over half the weight and need to work on losing 10lbs this Spring .  Too bad the Niners couldn't hold on, not a good day for that punt returner!

 

Cheers,

 

Vertigo

[[gi...]]

My mother in law swears by arnica cream for her knees and other ailments.

 

So do I.

[[ch...]]

hi bbs,i have been benzo free for 23months now.still waiting to heal.lots of anxiety and musculs going tight all the time.its just horrible.can anyone tell me when the adrenerlin stops.mine is 24/7.no rest from it.i am also w/d from a/d cymbalta was on 60ml now i am down to 30ml.really sore and acheing muscals.tired all the time thats just some of the sx.any advice .thought all this would have gone away by now.thank god for bb

[[ve...]]

hi bbs,i have been benzo free for 23months now.still waiting to heal.lots of anxiety and musculs going tight all the time.its just horrible.can anyone tell me when the adrenerlin stops.mine is 24/7.no rest from it.i am also w/d from a/d cymbalta was on 60ml now i am down to 30ml.really sore and acheing muscals.tired all the time thats just some of the sx.any advice .thought all this would have gone away by now.thank god for bb

 

Hi Chrissy.  Sorry to read that you are still suffering at 23 months.  I have read that cymbalta is a pretty strong medication which can impact your nerves and has its own array of potential  side effects.  It seems expected that some might still have issues with adrenalin, muscle aches and nerves while on cymbalta (or other strong medications) especially while  tapering off it.  Check the "post benzo protracted withdrawal support" thread.  I believe a member named Vancouvergirl has posted some information about cymbalta.  Some folks are able to take an a/d or SSRI after taper and still make good strides in recovery.  Others may find that complete recovery may be after other medications are tapered, eliminated or replaced with milder ones that have less side effects.  It seems varied as to how one reacts to the different medications or supplements should one choose to try other medications after the benzo is eliminated whether by c/t or taper.  At 23 months, one would probably need to consider that you might be in protracted withdrawal, although I would wait to see how you feel some months after you are off the cymbalta.  I believe your signature indicates that you tapered off ativan twice so there is a possibility of a kindling effect and this could lead to a longer or more complex recovery period in addition to some of the above mentioned. Hopefully you have a good physician who can help get you through this next taper safely.  The good news is that there are reports of  healing and improvements into the third year.  There are other things one might be able to address some of the anxiety and adrenalin rushes such as meditation, yoga as well as nutrition and getting plenty of rest.

 

Best wishes,

 

Vertigo

[[ve...]]

thanks verti - you are so full of great information.  the only s/x that is worse is the muscle spasm stuff really.  great info on the cars.  u r so right how i still get revved up easily at times.

xoxo

m - we are here for you.  we know what u r going thru.  keep holding on.  so glad u have supportive family

 

Hi Pan.  Yes, it can be easy to get revved up at times, especially in that first year off.  Anyone teaching a classroom full of teens would be hard pressed not to get revved up from time to time!  I think you're doing an amazing job and might consider rewarding yourself with a nice trip this summer.  You will be a year out and almost guaranteed to be feeling significantly better than you are now.

 

Cheers,

 

Vertigo