Post Benzo Freedom Withdrawal Support Group

[[An...]]

Crono

 

Unless I am mistaken, I have not seen or heard from anyone on that thread for ages except Laura (Helpme123) and her latest thread shows improvements too.

 

That is very encouraging and a strong indicator that the majority are healed and have moved on.

 

Pan, I thought I was healed at 7 1/2 months, got slammed in my 8th, it picked up a bit, then truly slammed again in my 9th - I have been moaning quite a lot lately - the anxiety, jitters, shivers, fatigue were my worst.  I think that wave may have been brought on by some major family stress.  I am much better for the last 3 days as I am trying the positivity tact.  But it is very up and down and it is hard to believe you are ever going to be okay, but you will!  I promise!

 

If you were in the UK I would make you a nice cup of tea and if I were in Spain would offer you a glass of Sangria - (maybe not!)

 

This will pass

 

Angel

:smitten:

[[gi...]]

Hey G.  Looks like you've done much to research the situation.  Just a few more questions.  Have you had a formal sleep study to see if something else might be going on such as sleep apnea? Twice, both times while on klonopin and ambien. My brain was in almost near-constant REM state, even on those 2 drugs. REM is good but stage 2 sleep (when the brain completely turns off) is essential. Anyway, it was determined I had mild apnea but was given a CPap anyway. That lasted about 3 months; if the noise didn't keep me awake, the nose pillows caused a sinus infection (I can't wear a mask). The 2nd test, with the CPap and the drugs I slept worse because of the machine. Also, do you have allergies?  No My wife sometimes sleeps better with the aid of a simple breathe right strip, might be worth a try.  Also, if you have allergies, , Doxepin is supposedly an anithistamine and a/d but Dr. Teitelbaum in his book suggests a low dose of 5mg to start to help with sleep (larger doses are apparently used for depression). See study below which compares low doses of 1mg, 3mg and 6mg Doxepin for insomnia.  The main point about doxepin is that unlike ambien and benzos which target the GABA receptors, the mechanism of action (MOA) of Doxepin appears to be to block histamines or histaminergic.  See below.THanks; I'll check this out.  I don't do well with antihistamines, though; they usually just make me agitated.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2082089/

 

Also see another study regards to low dose doxepin as alternative to ambien:

 

http://brainposts.blogspot.com/2011/01/low-dose-doxepin-for-insomnia-treatment.html

 

I have no idea about interaction with lamictal so best to check with your doctor if low dose might be worth trying.  It appears 3mg is a pretty small dose since 150 is one number I saw used for depression.

 

Sometimes when I take an allegra a couple hours before bed, I sleep better, maybe it's the antihistamine (although it seems to wake me up the first hour or so after I take it). As you know, trazodone/deseryl is also an antihistamine and although originally used as an antidepressant,  it became more popular as a sleep aid.  Speaking of traz, remeron or something else, is it possible that when you tried them a while back, you were possibly either in withdrawal or much worse off so that maybe now that things have improved a bit, might one or the other have a different impact on you today, maybe a small dose which might be just enough with the L-Theanine to keep you asleep for longer periods?  Maybe your doctor can advise on this.Good advice; I'll see what she says. I see her the 15th.  When I took traz and rem I wasn't taking klon or ambien, but a host of other a/d's and stabliizers.

 

In regards to not eating after 7PM, I've read where low blood sugar could get one up in the middle of the night, so perhaps a small snack around 8:00 or 8:30 with a little turkey/tryptophan could keep you down longer? (I'm assuming you don't go to sleep before 10PM). I take tryptophan because I can't eat turkey (or any carbs or protein) after 7.   I have read that milk might help some sleep but if you have any slight allergy, it might be causing some issues. Plus, some say not to have liquids before bed as that could cause your bladder to fill and awaken you if you are sensitive to a full bladder.  Do you keep your room cool? Yes... but then there's nightsweats, another new little cog to throw in the wheel!  That can help too.  Are you able to tolerate magnesium and calcium?  Mimi and others have suggested those might help with sleep as well.  I take them as well as flax, vitamin e and a homeopathic herb whose name escapes me.  All these were prescribed by a nutritionst; a former BB, even, who also went off K.

 

Finally, there is always the "think about sleep too much" philosophy that the more you try to get it and "worry about it", the worse it gets.  No doubt you are aware of this paradox and it sounds like you have learned to work on your breathing and mindfulness is a great exercise too. Yet all that being said, it seems there's gotta be a way to get your system to calm down enough to where you can get more than four hours sleep per night, G.You'd think so! LOL But even my hypnotherapist is scratching her head.  A few things you did not mention that could also help, might include a warm bath (possibly with epsom salt) to relax, maybe an hour before bed. Again: I fall asleep like a rock. It's waking up an hour later, and then tossing for an hour or 2 before falling back to sleep for 20 minute shifts, that's getting me.And I have to say, I don't watch the clock. Every time I wake up I am certain I've slept all night and it's time to get up!  So I turn to the clock to turn of the alarm and am always surprised and disappointed to see it's only been 60, 20, 30 minutes since I fell asleep. Especially the first time I wake up; I really think it's 7am - and then I look at the clock it's 1! I put on my headphones, try to do conscious meditation, wake up convinced it worked and it's 7am... I never lay there all upset, even when I have to work the next morning. I just fall asleep at my desk, which is very embarrassing when you're a receptionist; but there's nothing I can do. I don't recall if you mentioned whether you take melatonin with your other supplements,Melatonin is like speed to me. You wouldn't believe it but I recently read that 1mg is more than enough, that the 3 or 5mg on many bottles is not necessary and can actually impede sleep.  Anyway, hope something turns around for you soon G.

Thank you very much for your concern, John; I'll keep you posted.

 

Vertigo

[[gi...]]

hi v and other buds

 

hey do you think u could tell me again that this will end?  i am in my 8th month and been in a grand slam for almost 2 weeks; dr/dp back; crying, anx.  sorry to say i feel so lost and hopeless at times.  did have more good days in month 7 than 6.

 

would just appreciate some hope i guess

wonder if teaching high school is too much for my cns but love these kids and want to stick by  them somehow; someway; one day at a time.

worried i'll be in the 2-3 year group.  fear.  need to keep that at bay

working on cognitive stuff big time and praying

rozerem - for sleeping - any thoughts?

thanks so much for being there.  really :smitten:

 

Pan, that you're functioning enough to work -- and with kids, no less -- show you have a tremendous amount of strength!  If you haven't read my success story yet, look for it. Maybe it'll give you some hope.

Hang tough.

g

[[ve...]]

Hey Ginger.  I don't know if doxepin might work for you or not,  but supposedly it doesn't act on the GABA receptors and at low doses, reportedly does not have the antidepressant side effects, according to the study I posted earlier.  There is one important point.  A pharmaceutical company developed something called "Silenor" which is basically a 6mg dose of doxepin.  Apparently it is very expensive, like a dollar or more per pill and is marketed as a "new drug" for insomnia.  The fact is that doxepin itself has been generic for years, going back decades but the lowest dose available is 10mg.  Some study was done comparing 6mg vs 10mg (predictive study not actually using the 10mg and probably done by the makers of Silenor?) and results indicated that the smaller dose resulted in less grogginess in the morning.  What I don't know is if the 10mg doxepin can be cut in half or if it is time released.  Also, I suspect that the Silenor is time release capsule which I think Ambien comes in too.  All that being said, if it works for you , maybe you'd be willing to pay the cost of the Silenor if it got you to stay asleep for longer than 4 hours?  Also, I think Silenor may be available in the 3mg dose, not sure.  So further research might be warranted into the comparison of generic cheaper doxepin vs silenor.  All that being said, if one has some blues, perhaps the 10mg of doxepin wouldn't be a bad idea for some?  I'm not sure if that low a dose of doxepin can help with depression, maybe if it is mild?, given the one study I posted that said 150mg to 300mg is considered a  therapeutic dose for depression.  Also, it might be worth checking with your doctor to see if there is interaction with lamictal.  I think doxepin is a trycyclic antidepressant but at 3, 6 or perhaps even 10mg, it may not be interpreted as an a/d. Using 10mg doxepin for insomnia is technically what they call "off label" use.

 

The fact that they developed Silenor from it specifically for insomnia and is available, must mean FDA approval as a sleep aid.  I read that some doctors have samples of silenor.  On another note, I'm not sure if Trazodone has been specifically approved for insomnia or is still prescribed off label, not for it's intended original purpose as an a/d.  I have heard some report that Trazodone leaves them feeling groggy.  Remeron apparently can have that side effect too as well as weight gain, but maybe not with a very small "off label" dose for insomnia as seems to help Pangelingia.  Well, he takes a really small amount, it might be that you could try a slightly larger dose than what he posted, but see what your doctor thinks about remeron vs doxepin vs silenor?  The study I posted earlier about doxepin in 3mg or 6mg doses apparently did not have strong side effects though with any medication, some side effects might be possible, as you know.  By the way, did you see the article I posted about milk before bed?  Pretty interesting.

 

V

 

 

[[ve...]]

Quick update on my renewed quest the last couple weeks,  for better sleep.  I tried L-Theanine last night and I woke up at 4AM, but fell back asleep pretty fast.  However, I woke up feeling a little groggy.  Probably not a good experiment since I had a glass of wine with dinner last night, so it wasn't a valid go of it,  since I typically do wake up in the middle of the night when I have even a small amount of alcohol in the evening.  Also, I had a supergreen smoothie late in the day yesterday  (about an hour before dinner at 5PM) which typically has some amino acids in it and could possibly impact alertness and sleep.  I usually have the supergreen drinks in the morning when I make them and they tend to energize.

 

Anyway, will give the L-Theanine another shot this evening (with no alcohol ).  If it doesn't work, I might try it with the L-Tryptophan before bed in a couple days, not tomorrow night because I plan to have a beer or two at a superbowl party tomorrow .  I might also see what 1mg melatonin added to L-Tryptophan might do, if anything.  I feel a little like a mad scientist with the supplements but after reading "The Mood Cure" and a few other books, I think it's worth a shot to try a few of them, might be a fairly benign and even "natural" way to improve sleep through the night without the addictive and other s/x of traditional sleep meds.  Dr. Teitlebaum in his book "From Fatigued to Fantastic" emphasizes the importance of getting 8 consecutive hours of sleep, especially for those who have had a history of immune problems, chronic fatigue and/or other significant health issues.  With a history of allergies, frequent sinus infections and shingles a couple years ago, I think it's probably worth exploring ways now to try and increase my sleep to that ever elusive "8 hours", something that ironically led me down the benzo journey a couple years ago.

 

Just so nobody is discouraged by my recent posts about trying supplements, it's not that I am struggling "to recover" at more than 2 years out.  My benzo nightmare fortunately ended about a year ago when I posted a success story last March 2011.  The postings I have made recently about supplements, are about  trying to tweak a pretty good 6 hours a night of sleep, hopefully up to 8 hours to help with fatigue I've had (probably in part due to not sleeping enough) for years before I ever took a benzo.  In other words, I'm not trying to get back to the "old me" which I've seen from time to time around forum, but rather,  to evolve into a better more rested and healthy me (than before benzos), if that makes sense.

 

Vertigo

[[gi...]]

Thank you so much for all this information!! I'll be sure to talk to my doc about it next week.

 

Yes I read your report about milk. Warm milk releases tryptophan; that's a fact. It's not much but it's enough to have a calming effect on the average person. I'm a nutrition counselor who clearly lacks information on all supplements but of this I am certain.

 

I drink a glass of cold milk at night to add a serving to my daily requirement (I'm supposed to have 3 dairy servings but I only get 2) and to keep my stomach settled for all the supps I take at night.  I reckon, though, that the calcium in it in addition to the calcium pill at night helps my sleep. But I drink it for the other reasons.

 

I envy your 6 hours!  I clocked about 5 hours altogether last night which is great. I relegated myself to the couch at 1 when I started tossing. Hubby's occasional snoring does not help the situation! He's getting a prescription mouth guard designed to stop snoring so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  BTW having read your information about tryp affecting longer-term sleep, I didn't take any last night. I don't know if that helped me sleep more soundly, but maybe that helped along with the combination of not being with hubby & changing the location.

 

You're a peach; thanks for all the support and information you're giving everyone here. Are you posting a separate thread of just your research?  You might want to.

 

Have a good day!

 

g

[[ve...]]

You're welcome G.  Below is an interesting article on the subject of pharma companies repackaging old meds into new ones like Silenor.  Bottom line is that I might even look into it since my issue seems to be  staying asleep, not falling asleep (which is what you said you have an issue with as well).  I can sleep fine for five or six hours (unless I've had chocolate, caffeine or alcohol after 4PM).  I'll try the supplements first, but I may see if I can get a sample of silenor for when I travel to help with jet lag...

See below.

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/211686-the-problem-with-somaxon-s-silenor

 

Vertigo

[[wi...]]

Hi Vertigo, et al.,

I'm here to vent and get any encouragement I can.  I've been reading, but not posting lately - don't have time or energy to keep up.

WHAT IS IT WITH HEALING FROM THIS HORRIBLE DRUG???  I was doing well up until 3 months, and then at 3 months out I was hit hard.  What had been the status quo, changed.  What worked for sleep, pain, etc., stopped working.  Supplements that helped, started aggravating.  The left side of my brain and body have a life of their own, and it isn't a good life.  My nervous system is in a constant state of anxiety.  I keep having to tell my fight-or-flight response that there really isn't any reason to be anxious.

 

As things were progressing toward the third month, I thought I had this thing licked.  (I'm sure I'm not the first one to be lulled into this false belief.)  There seems to be no "easy way out" for those of us who have to suffer this road.  Arg! 

 

Onward and upward,

Wish

 

 

[[ve...]]

Hi Vertigo, et al.,

I'm here to vent and get any encouragement I can.  I've been reading, but not posting lately - don't have time or energy to keep up.

WHAT IS IT WITH HEALING FROM THIS HORRIBLE DRUG???  I was doing well up until 3 months, and then at 3 months out I was hit hard.  What had been the status quo, changed.  What worked for sleep, pain, etc., stopped working.  Supplements that helped, started aggravating.  The left side of my brain and body have a life of their own, and it isn't a good life.  My nervous system is in a constant state of anxiety.  I keep having to tell my fight-or-flight response that there really isn't any reason to be anxious.As things were progressing toward the third month, I thought I had this thing licked.  (I'm sure I'm not the first one to be lulled into this false belief.)  There seems to be no "easy way out" for those of us who have to suffer this road.  Arg!  :tickedoff:Onward and upward, Wish

 

Hi Wish.  Sounds like a rough wave, which is fairly common in the first six months.  I can relate to having the fight/flight response out of whack.  One thing that I've found can't be "licked in life" (at least not completely) is anxiety.  Yes, we can find better ways to respond and cope but anxiety is here to stay, it's built in.  When you find yourself over reacting, mindfulness can be helpful, not to eliminate anxiety, but may help to put things in a more realistic perspective.  It's still early in the process at three months, Wish.  Hang in there. Things will get better.

 

Vertigo

[[ve...]]

Quick update.  I decided to try 500MG of L-Tryptophan last night.  I had a pretty good night, slept about 6 1/2 hours with one wake up around 3:30 but fell back asleep.  I did have a rather strange dream.  I was eating a candy bar which turned out to be spiked with valium and I ended up spitting it out!  Sheesh, what a strange dream.  Maybe it's trying to tell me that supplements are not the answer?  That these supplement pills are artificial candy, not so different from the benzo? Who knows.  I think the benzo is way more dangerous and addictive! While the L-Tryptophan has not significantly improved my sleep, I seem to have slightly more energy and maybe even a slightly elevated mood in the day.  Perhaps my serotonin reserves are getting a little higher as a result.  I don't think it's been harmful to me, but so far, has not gotten me to the 8 hours of sleep goal,  and I don't plan to keep increasing the dose.  My next step might be to try L-Theanine with the L-Tryptophan or perhaps 1mg of melatonin with L-Tryptophan.  The L-Theanine left me a little groggy yesterday morning but I'll give it one more try.  If neither works, I may ask my doctor about prescribing 3mg doxepin or maybe he can get some samples and see if that gets me to 8 hours, even if only for one or two nights, I'd like to see what it feels like.  I have to travel next month so it would be nice to see if that might also help with the jet lag.  Well, that's my update.

 

Go Patriots!

 

Vertigo

[[mt...]]

HI Verti

The L tryptophan is not knocking me out at knock like it did the first few days...but I have to admit I feel much much better mentally.  I have added the L tyrosine (500mg in am) and things have gotten even better.  I was a bit concerned as it mentions L tryrosine can be stimulating but it has only added to the overall feelings of clarity, more energy and positivity.  My digestion is much better and food cravings are gone.  I do plan on taking a break after a month, seeing how I feel and using as needed.  I hope that the aminos along with a healthy diet will do the trick and get me to my optimum health.

 

Adding the DPA next still waiting for it to arrive.

 

I have been lying in the sun for an hour each day.  I was thinking how great I felt while in Florida and realized I had spent each day at the beach from sun up til sun down.  Maybe sunlight (or lack of) has not helped me with my serotonin levels.  Anyway overall I am much happier. 

 

No more worrying or negativity...I feel much more solid in all areas!  YIPPEE

 

It does take me awhile to fall asleep and I am a night owl but once I am out I get a solid 7-8 hours of sleep each night. 

 

Hope you get the sleep you want and desire!!

 

Enjoy Superbowl Sunday!!

Mimi

 

[[ve...]]

HI Verti

The L tryptophan is not knocking me out at knock like it did the first few days...but I have to admit I feel much much better mentally.  I have added the L tyrosine (500mg in am) and things have gotten even better.  I was a bit concerned as it mentions L tryrosine can be stimulating but it has only added to the overall feelings of clarity, more energy and positivity.  My digestion is much better and food cravings are gone.  I do plan on taking a break after a month, seeing how I feel and using as needed.  I hope that the aminos along with a healthy diet will do the trick and get me to my optimum health...

Enjoy Superbowl Sunday!!

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi.  Glad you're feeling well and doing well with the supplements.  I must admit that I've had very good energy all day today.  Will be curious to see how you like the Tyrosine after a few days.  Some feel it can be stimulating.  Well, enjoy the rest of your Sunday.  All bets are off for a great night's sleep (will be having a few drinks and probably too many sweets and treats).  Oh well, gotta live once in a while.  I should say all bets are off for a great night's sleep tonight, the superbowl betting is another matter entirely .

 

V

[[wi...]]

Hi Verti,

Thanks for the encouragement.  Yes, going through a bad wave.  It has been lasting a long time, too.  During the taper, I always had the end goal of getting off to keep me motivated.  Now, the open-ended process of healing with it's windows and waves seems harder for me to keep positive.  I am actually doing much better psychologically than I was during the taper, however.  I just have to keep remembering that I really am moving forward even though it doesn't feel that way.

 

Thanks again,

Wish

[[gi...]]

Hey V,

 

I wonder if you're stressing yourself out about not getting 8 hours. Yes, "science claims" that 8 is essential; but the average time most people get is 6.5 - 7 hours.  I'm not saying don't try the supps - God knows I've got a handful of them every night - but I'm saying maybe you should relax and not worry so much.  When it comes to traveling, time changes screw everyone up. Don't sweat getting jet lag; you will, you'll adapt, and if you don't, you'll still be OK.

 

The worst thing you can do is sleep on the plane, or sleep when you get where you're going if there's less than a 7 hour time difference.  I don't follow my own advice, but that's what a "professional traveler" has told me.

 

I'll keep you posted on my sitch.

 

Sweet dreams!

 

g

[[ve...]]

Hey V, I wonder if you're stressing yourself out about not getting 8 hours. Yes, "science claims" that 8 is essential; but the average time most people get is 6.5 - 7 hours.  I'm not saying don't try the supps - God knows I've got a handful of them every night - but I'm saying maybe you should relax and not worry so much.  When it comes to traveling, time changes screw everyone up. Don't sweat getting jet lag; you will, you'll adapt, and if you don't, you'll still be OK. The worst thing you can do is sleep on the plane, or sleep when you get where you're going if there's less than a 7 hour time difference.  I don't follow my own advice, but that's what a "professional traveler" has told me. I'll keep you posted on my sitch.  Sweet dreams!

g

 

Hey Ginger.  Well, a little too much vino and somebody had to bring brownies at the Superbowl party last night, so not an unexpected early morning wake up at 3:00AM, but I do hope to get back to sleep here in a few minutes .  I do understand that some folks can get by on 6 hours, but I'm not one of them. Yes, I get by, but I have afternoon fatigue and generally end up taking a short nap about three times a week.  Fortunately, I work some days from home so it is possible.  However, I know I "need" that extra 45 minutes or so and wish I could just get it as part of  a straight night of sleep.

 

Yesterday was a pretty good day though, felt pretty energetic the whole day so maybe the L-Tryp has helped some. I also could use a more consistent exercise routine.  I did a light work out yesterday morning and it seemed to boost energy.  Maybe the combination of exercise and who knows, it is possible that the higher serotonin levels from the L-Tryp could be helping.  I'm not feeling too "stressed out" about it, just still searching for a better handle on sleep and rest so that I feel better all day and don't get that afternoon burn out quite as much.

 

As for the jet lag, I get it really bad when I go to the west coast.  I get up at 2 or 3 and usually can't get back to sleep, maybe for another hour by 5 but it's not good.  Of course 3 there is 6 here.  This goes on for five or six nights and then just when I'm getting adjusted, I fly back and end up pretty exhausted from the lack of sleep .  So I might see if my doctor has any Silenor samples, might give one a try when I travel next month to see if it helps at all. I'll try one or two nights there with the L-Tryp and melatonin maybe, but I'd like to have a back up.  Ok, back to bed.  Hope you are having a better night's sleep than me!

 

Cheers,

 

V

[[An...]]

Hi V

 

Sorry you are not sleeping so well - I know you are still a youngster (!) but we do need less sleep as we get older.  In Spain it is very tempting to have a siesta - I try not to take one - firstly because I still have toxic naps and secondly, I sleep much better if I can hold myself back from resting in the afternoon.

 

I suffered very badly from insomnia pre-benzos - but someone recommended melatonin and told me you need to take them religiously for about 3 weeks so they build up in your system and start to work.

 

They worked like a treat for me.

 

I took them up to about 10 days ago then just stopped as I think I wrote.  I am still sleeping so well without anything now!  I always have this suspicion about melatonin = placebo but it is probably isn't.  I can't recommend them enough (but am not telling you what to do!)

 

All the best

Angel xx

[[mt...]]

HI V

Well interesting that the L tyrosine was the one I was most concerned to take and I swear it seems to be the one that has settled me down even more....go figure.  Guess that is why we have to give them a try and see how we respond as we are all so different in what we need.  Ross says in her book that you should notice some improvement within 24-48 hours.  And if you have any negative response like headache or nausea...then stop as you do not need it.

 

I was thinking about your earlier comment "That these supplement pills are artificial candy, not so different from the benzo".  It is true that everything we put in our mouth has an effect on our body.  However amino acids are found in our food and are required for us to live.  There is some thought that as our land is overfarmed minerals and nutrient levels have declined then add that to our "modern" fast food diets etc and the deficiencies can add up.  When we top it off with ongoing consistent stress and perhaps a genetic component (not to mention aging) it may be prudent to consider nutritional support from time to time.  I am not one to throw a bunch of supplements down my throat and hope for the best.  I research as much as I can and eat as well as I can, especially AFTER my experience with benzos.  I also try and take supplements that are in amounts similar to what is found in food levels.  I think taking a pharmaceutical is another matter entirely.

 

It should also be mentioned again that taking an amino acid is not something one should do indefinitely as it can cause an imbalance in other amino's.  It is a good idea to take a break every month or so and resume if you begin to feel worse after some time.  And that is another difference from a benzo-taking an amino acid increases our reservoirs so we can function better and once we are eating properly and in balance we can STOP them.

 

You may want to try the L tyrosine and see if that helps with your sleep.  I also notice that if I eat something before bed I fall asleep quicker and sleep deeper.  Maybe hypoglycemic?  I would keep up that naps on days you get less sleep.  Do what you can to keep yourself from being sleep deprived.  And as Angel says in some parts of the world naps are a given.  More siestas less work!!

 

Happy Monday to all,

Mimi

 

[[ve...]]

HI V Well interesting that the L tyrosine was the one I was most concerned to take and I swear it seems to be the one that has settled me down even more....go figure.  Guess that is why we have to give them a try and see how we respond as we are all so different in what we need.  Ross says in her book that you should notice some improvement within 24-48 hours.  And if you have any negative response like headache or nausea...then stop as you do not need it.  I was thinking about your earlier comment "That these supplement pills are artificial candy, not so different from the benzo".  It is true that everything we put in our mouth has an effect on our body.  However amino acids are found in our food and are required for us to live.  There is some thought that as our land is overfarmed minerals and nutrient levels have declined then add that to our "modern" fast food diets etc and the deficiencies can add up.  When we top it off with ongoing consistent stress and perhaps a genetic component (not to mention aging) it may be prudent to consider nutritional support from time to time... It should also be mentioned again that taking an amino acid is not something one should do indefinitely as it can cause an imbalance in other amino's.  It is a good idea to take a break every month or so and resume if you begin to feel worse after some time.  And that is another difference from a benzo-taking an amino acid increases our reservoirs so we can function better and once we are eating properly and in balance we can STOP them. I also notice that if I eat something before bed I fall asleep quicker and sleep deeper.  Maybe hypoglycemic?  I would keep up that naps on days you get less sleep.  Do what you can to keep yourself from being sleep deprived.  And as Angel says in some parts of the world naps are a given.  More siestas less work!!  Happy Monday to all,

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi.  I agree with most of your post on supplements.  I was playing a little "devil's advocate" with my comment in suggesting that maybe the amino supplements are no better than benzos.  The benzo seems to be a potentially dangerous misunderstood medication by some doctors, that unfortunately is prescribed at times "like candy", and too often without proper warnings.  They arguably should only be used on a very short term basis for a specific type of need such as pre surgery or for a few days in a trauma situation... I don't think benzodiazepene medications should be given long term.  Maybe at one time, there were not any decent alternative anti seizure medications, but now there are likely many better choices. 

 

As for the use of amino acids, I'm still giving some a try. I agree that it is a good idea to take periodic breaks, give your liver a rest and reassess from time to time whether one really needs to stay on them every day.  It may be that once reserves are built up, one can take some every other day or even a couple times a week and benefit enough to rebalance any potential nutritional deficiencies or in times  of heightened stress where more of a particular one or two might be helpful.  I think it's important to pay attention to the body and adjust accordingly.

 

Last night at 3AM, I woke up with a slight hang over after a superbowl party, and took one L-theanine to try and get back to sleep a little easier.  I did fall back to sleep and had some vivid dreams, but awoke with some grogginess again (like the last time I tried theanine).  I think L-Theanine might not be the best one for me, but had it been the weekend and I could have slept in, it might have been a different story.  Flexibility being the key, perhaps there are some strategies that might be best used on a week day vs weekend depending on what one's schedule might be.

 

I did not take the L-Tryptophan last night as I did not want to take anything after a few glasses of wine but will give it a try this evening and see how the night goes.  I agree that the naps can be helpful when one is feeling run down and after a few days of less than ideal sleep.  They work for me on occasion, but others seem to have "toxic naps" or have a downside to where their night time sleep is impacted more if they take naps.  I did need a 30 minute nap today after the rough night last night but I am hopeful that will not be the case tomorrow.  I am honestly trying to get to a point where I can consistently get enough sleep at night and not feel the need for the siesta, as tempting as they may be .  It may take a while to get there but I'm still hopeful that I can get to a point of sleeping well at night and feeling my best in the day .

 

Best,

 

Vertigo

 

 

[[ve...]]

Hi V  Sorry you are not sleeping so well - I know you are still a youngster (!) but we do need less sleep as we get older.  In Spain it is very tempting to have a siesta - I try not to take one - firstly because I still have toxic naps and secondly, I sleep much better if I can hold myself back from resting in the afternoon.

All the best

Angel xx

 

Hi Angel. Well, I'm glad somebody considers me a youngster now that my insurance considers me eligible for a free colonoscopy .  Kidding aside, I do understand that sleep patterns may change in one's 5th and 6th decades and beyond.  The afternoon fatigue and lack of sleep has been an issue for me at least about ten years now.  Culturally, I think I might fare better in a society where a siesta is the norm , but here in the United States, it seems frowned upon and honestly, I'd prefer it if I had full energy to get through a whole day consistently without the lull.  Actually, it's not just a typical afternoon lull after lunch but a little more serious downturn in energy around 3PM many days.  I may give the melatonin a try for a couple weeks as you suggested.  I've ordered them in 1mg tablets, should be here tomorrow.  Meanwhile, I'll probably go with the L-Tryptophan this evening.  I'm also going to give my doc a call and see if he has any free 3mg samples of Silenor for my travel next month.

 

Hope all is well with you,

 

V

[[An...]]

Thanks Vertigo.

 

I am much better as am being more positive.  I have started a positivity thread in the Accentuate the Positive section (where else?!) and there are currently 3 of us supporting each other with this attitude.  Hopefully more will join as changing my attitude has really helped.

 

I don't think this 3pm lull is unique - I have actually had it for years. At 3pm on the dot I would get tired during my workday but perked up again in the evening.

 

I think there is a biological reason for it, I can't exactly remember what - it may be the cortisol dipping.

 

But joking aside, as we age we get more tired.

 

Have a nice rest of the day - I'm off to sleep.

 

Angel xx

[[mt...]]

HI V

So the DPA arrived today and I took one before lunch and did not feel that hot. A little tinnitus kicked in and an overall feeling of being ramped up. So guess I will pass on that one.  I have not tried L theanine but I think the L tyrosine is that best for me.  I may discontinue the L tryptophan and just keep the L tyrosine for a while.  It has a very calming warming but energizing feeling.  I take it first thing in the am.  You may want to give that one a try.

 

I am going to order my Saliva and Blood spot tests for Thyroid and Adrenal tomorrow.  That will be the next step to "take another look under the hood".  I am feeling like I want to hit the gym soon but want to get my adrenals assessed before I jump back in.

 

Today is my 1 year Benzo Free Anniversary!  I could not be happier!!  Thanks to all my BB's who held my hand along the way...especially you Vertigo!

 

Sweet dreams to all

Mimi

[[ve...]]

HI V  So the DPA arrived today and I took one before lunch and did not feel that hot. A little tinnitus kicked in and an overall feeling of being ramped up. So guess I will pass on that one.  I have not tried L theanine but I think the L tyrosine is that best for me.  I may discontinue the L tryptophan and just keep the L tyrosine for a while.  It has a very calming warming but energizing feeling.  I take it first thing in the am.  You may want to give that one a try.  I am going to order my Saliva and Blood spot tests for Thyroid and Adrenal tomorrow.  That will be the next step to "take another look under the hood".  I am feeling like I want to hit the gym soon but want to get my adrenals assessed before I jump back in.  Today is my 1 year Benzo Free Anniversary!  I could not be happier!!  Thanks to all my BB's who held my hand along the way...especially you Vertigo!

Sweet dreams to all

Mimi

 

Mimi.  Ok, I mean one year anniversary .  That's awesome how well you are doing at one year off.  I am also grateful for your help on this thread and around forum to those who are still struggling.  The minor tweaks that you and I have been engaged in with supplements is nothing compared to those who still feel hopeless that they might never feel well again.  As you know, I'm not looking for "average", but excellence in terms of my health moving forward.  Sometimes I have only myself to blame for what I eat or a less than consistent exercise schedule.  Yet, things are so much better than they were a year ago and before benzos. 

 

Last night, I took the L-Tryp and was in a deep sleep when my wife jumped up around 2:30AM  to say she thought she heard the dog whining downstairs.  Another unfortunate break in my quest to figure out whether I can get 7 or 8 hours of sleep.  Consequently, I awoke on the tired side but instead of having a cup of tea, I tried one L-Tyrosine (250MG).  We'll see how it goes this morning and afternoon.

 

  I think the melatonin 1mg tablets might arrive today so I might try one of those this evening or perhaps for a week or two to see if there's any benefit.  Angel suggested that it might take 3 weeks to have a real impact. Well, congrats again on a year off.  I wish you continued healing and good luck with the adrenal and thyroid tests.  Keep us posted .  I know I need to hit the gym and get on the treadmill too, as soon as I finish up the pizza in our fridg from the superbowl .

 

 

Vertigo

[[ve...]]

Quick update.  Tyrosine not my cup of tea.  Same reaction I had to it when I took it last year. Felt a bit jittery and increased anxiety for much of the day. Definitely different reaction than I've had from the L-Tryptophan. 

 

V

[[re...]]

Hey guys

 

I haven't been checking in as much lately but I wanted to drop by and say "hi"

 

I posted something on my blog today that Princezz found comforting.  I know it has helped me.

 

It's from a Dr. Melemis in Canada who specializes in this field-  there is more on his website (link below)

 

"Post-acute withdrawal usually lasts for 2 years. This is one of the most important things you need to remember. If you're up for the challenge you can get though this. But if you think that post-acute withdrawal will only last for a few months, then you'll get caught off guard. . .

 

How to Survive Post-Acute Withdrawal

 

Be patient. Two years can feel like a long time if you're in a rush to get through it. You can't hurry recovery. But you can get through it one day at a time.

If you try to rush your recovery, or resent post-acute withdrawal, or try to bulldoze your way through, you'll become exhausted.

 

 

Post-acute withdrawal symptoms are a sign that your brain is recovering. They are the result of your brain chemistry gradually going back to normal. Therefore don't resent them. But remember, even after one year, you are still only half way there.

 

 

Go with the flow. Withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable. But the more you resent them the worse they'll seem. You'll have lots of good days over the next two years. Enjoy them. You'll also have lots of bad days. On those days, don't try to do too much. Take care of yourself, focus on your recovery, and you'll get through this.

 

 

You'll go for weeks without any withdrawal symptoms, and then one day you'll wake up and your withdrawal will hit you like a ton of bricks. . . if you're not prepared for it, if you think that post-acute withdrawal only lasts for a few months, or if you think that you'll be different and it won't be as bad for you, then you'll get caught off guard. But if you know what to expect you can do this.

 

 

Practice self-care. Give yourself lots of little breaks over the next two years. Tell yourself "what I am doing is enough." Be good to yourself. That is what you must learn in recovery.

Sometimes you'll have little energy or enthusiasm for anything. Understand this and don't over book your life. Give yourself permission to focus on your recovery."

 

 

If I honestly assess my progress this feels pretty much "right on"  I'm almost at the 14 month mark and feel over half way there.  I expect to be fully recovered by the end of the year.

This is a long, arduous process but as Vertigo and Pamster and Jenny (and countless others)  have proven-  we get through this.

 

 

Wishing everyone here amazing healing.

 

Becca

 

 

http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/post-acute-withdrawal.htm

 

 

http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/benzodiazepine.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

i can't thank u all enough for the encouragement. sure is challenging.  but i will persevere.  thank so much for being there