Post Benzo Freedom Withdrawal Support Group

[[Ma...]]

Hi Verti, it's really good to see you!! I was doing great. Was back at work, still with a lot of sxs but managed to accomplish quite a lot. Then, 10 days ago, my doc recommended raising my thyroid levels so my synthroid came up from .1mgs to .11. Wow, it was awful. The day was full of muscle spasms, rolling terrors, you name it, so I came right back down the next day. Thing is, here I am, pretty close to where I was 2 years ago. This feels a lot like tolerance wd. It's crazy. I think it may be getting better, I hope the worst is over, but I'm amazed at how vulnerable I still am 21 months out. I'm hunkered at home in survival mode, thank god the bulk of the work is over, but this is a time of celebration for that and I'm stuck in this madness. I'm shocked. I never thought I'd have to do this again. I sure hope this will be self correcting (I know, crazy right, but I'm afraid I'm just going to "be like this now"). I was working out hard and regularly, things were pretty good. I don't want to scare anyone, thyroid is a pretty huge issue and most don't have a problem regulating it, I just do. Hard to believe 10 days ago, I was fine. Incredible. Has anyone heard of anything like this and any idea how long it will take to regulate so I can get back to living?

Thanks.

xm

[[ve...]]

Hi Verti, it's really good to see you!! I was doing great. Was back at work, still with a lot of sxs but managed to accomplish quite a lot. Then, 10 days ago, my doc recommended raising my thyroid levels so my synthroid came up from .1mgs to .11. Wow, it was awful. The day was full of muscle spasms, rolling terrors, you name it, so I came right back down the next day. Thing is, here I am, pretty close to where I was 2 years ago. This feels a lot like tolerance wd. It's crazy. I think it may be getting better, I hope the worst is over, but I'm amazed at how vulnerable I still am 21 months out. I'm hunkered at home in survival mode, thank god the bulk of the work is over, but this is a time of celebration for that and I'm stuck in this madness. I'm shocked. I never thought I'd have to do this again. I sure hope this will be self correcting (I know, crazy right, but I'm afraid I'm just going to "be like this now"). I was working out hard and regularly, things were pretty good. I don't want to scare anyone, thyroid is a pretty huge issue and most don't have a problem regulating it, I just do. Hard to believe 10 days ago, I was fine. Incredible. Has anyone heard of anything like this and any idea how long it will take to regulate so I can get back to living?

Thanks.

xm

 

Good to see you Marina.  It sounds like the thyroid is one area of vulnerability for you in terms of health.  For others, it may be something else.  For me, one trouble area for me has been the gut, still on prilosec and I have to be careful not to drink too much (among other reasons) to avoid an ulcer....  Do you think if you had never been on benzos, that the thyroid would possibly still be an issue?  I believe in the first two years post benzo, many seem to have an extra vulnerability to different stresses.  In some cases, the adrenal glands act up, for others it might be GI problems, and for some, the thyroid. It wouldn't surprise me if sudden increases in synthetic thyroid might rev up old "withdrawal" symptoms.  Others have reported having strong reactions to steroids and other medications, several years out.  I am glad to be two years out now.  Not that there is a magic time frame where these things can not happen.  My case was complicated by Shingles, for example,  but I do not believe I was or am protracted.  However, I think it's taken me a little longer because of my immune system being compromised with the shingles virus shortly after taper ended.  Well, hope you hang in there and start to feel better soon, Marina.  Hormones, whether thyroid or something else can rev things up, especially if you're over 40 and possibly pre-menopause.  Not fair that the guys seem to get away without that sort of thing although some start to have issues with prostate.  Moral of the story... Don't get old!

 

 

Verti

[[ve...]]

Ruthieallison posted this on another thread.  I thought it was kind of interesting.

 

Bravely

Enduring

Nightmare

Zoned

Out

Sickness!

 

I think it does take bravery to get through this process .

 

Vertigo

[[ve...]]

Hi Mimi, Marina and all other Post Benzo pepes .  I just read the Mood Cure book that you had mentioned in an earlier post, Mimi.  It is indeed an interesting read   I have been concerned over the last year about a certain sleep situation which is not a huge deal but impacting that final 5% recovery and well being. 

 

Although I've been sleeping relatively well and fall asleep right away... I continue to awaken at 5 or 5:30AM when I do not need to be up before around 6:45 or 7AM.  I also get up at 5:30AM even on weekends and would prefer to sleep in! When I first took that valium three years ago, the "insomnia" was much more of a problem because I would awaken at 2 or 3AM and not be able to fall asleep for several hours.  I think I need 7 hours.  I sometimes need to take a 30 minute nap when I can during the day due to afternoon fatigue.

 

I've waited two years post taper and added no supplements to try to improve this situation, thought maybe time was needed to heal the CNS.  I may have taken one melatonin on a trip  when I was having some more serious sleep troubles with jet lag, but it didn't seem to help.  Maybe I didn't take enough or for enough days?  Melatonin is discussed in the book too.  You may recall that about nine months ago, I was thinking about Tyrosine as a supplement but decided to wait on taking it.  I see that Tyrosine is mentioned at length, along with  L-Tryptophan in the book.  I don't want to try both at the same time, so I think I'll try the L-Tryptophan first to see if it works to keep me asleep for the whole night without waking up before 6:30 or 7:00AM.  I was hoping to avoid supplements but I think this is worth a try at two years out. Will let you know how it turns out. 

 

Apparently, the gut is one of the primary areas where serotonin is found so maybe this will also improve stomach issues if in fact I have some deficiency, who knows.  I hope to try again to go off the prilosec at some point this year too.  Thanks to another buddy here, I've learned that i really do not need to take a prilosec every day, but only every other day to keep things in check.  I tried exactly one year ago to taper off it, but had to go back on it after a bad virus and some unpleasantness.  I recently read in USA Today about a product called AloeCure.  It has reportedly helped some others get off and stay off proton pump inhibitors like prilosec, which according to some reports can lead to bone loss and increased likelihood of hip replacements down the road.  Finally, while I did not carefully read the chapters on thyroid, since I do not think I personally have an issue there,  there appears to be some info in the book that could be of interest to anyone  who suspects a thyroid sensitivity.

 

Best,

 

Vertigo

[[Su...]]

HI Vertigo,

 

I wanted to ask you if your symptoms got worse at 11 months off.  Digestive symptoms are kicking up again, along with others.    I don't want to take a PPI, again...but I may have to take zantac, or one of those.  IBS is socking it to me, too. 

Interesting about AloeCure.  Where do they sell it ?

When did you notice a big improvement in your symptoms ?

 

Sunny girl  

[[mt...]]

HI Vertigo

I can't believe how much better I feel after adding the L Tryptophan.  It is the piece that has been missing for me.  I hope I continue to feel as well as I am.  I am only taking 500mg at bedtime and I am sleeping like a rock.  All the morning funkiness has disappeared and the lagging mini episodes of tinnitus are also almost gone.  I am up and moving around and feeling a general sense of well being.  Keeping my fingers crossed that I will continue to move forward.  Sure wish I had tried L tryptophan instead of a damn benzo...oh well can'tget caught up in trying to change the past.

 

I just ordered and am adding tyrosine next to my regime.  I plan taking it in the am to help with energy levels.  I have read it can rev you up but some report that it makes them feel calm and clear.  I have stopped the Seriphos and now only taking magnesium at about 10pm and then the L Tryptophan at bedtime.  I did get some sublingual GABA that the author recommends but did not feel any thing but a little nausea after taking if for a few days and I think the nausea was because of the peppermint flavor (pretty strong).  So once I get the tyrosine on board I will have addressed 3 of the 4 major aminos associated with each mood type.  I will eventually try the DPA as I tested positive for all for mood types on the questionnaire. Anyway feeling hopeful that this will be a big step forward in healing the underlying issues that pointed me to a benzo in the first place.  If the DPA does not add anything I will just stop it as well.  I want to make sure and give them each a try -one at a time- so I know if one causes any negative effect-which I will attribute to the fact that my brain does not require it.

 

I really like the book and am so happy I am getting such relief.  My husband has also started the L tryptophan and reports deep deep sleep and overall general sense of calm and more peacefulness.

 

Marina I second Vertigo's suggestion that you check out her book The Mood Cure as it really addresses the Thyroid and the connections to our neurotransmitters and overall health.  She also has a website moodcure.com where you can get more information and take the questionaire on whether you are experiencing the various mood types.

 

For everyone still tapering I think this is all something to consider once you have put the taper behind you.  When I spoke to the author on the phone she advised me to complete my taper and then address my condition once I was somewhat stable.  Actually the fact that she gave me this advice and did not push me onto supplements during my taper...gave her more credibility to my thinking.

 

Let me know how the L tryptophan works for you Verti.  We are all different so not sure you will feel as me but I sure hope it beings you

some deep sleep and beautiful dreams.  I felt some relief the first night but I do think it has a cumulative effect as the "serotonin" reservoirs fill up and are restored.  Maybe in a few months I can discontinue as she advises and see how I fare. 

 

I know some find relief from w/d when adding an antidepressant so serotonin seems to be involved on some level.  If so then adding the L tryptophan which increases serotonin "should"  bring relief and correct the condition that was exaccerbated by the stress that w/d brings to our system causing serotonin levels to decrease.  L tryptophan is recommended before 5htp as it beings the same relief AND addresses many other bodily functions the 5htp does not.

 

Have a wonderful day to all!

Mimi

 

 

[[An...]]

My mother's Alzheimer's is getting worse and she has to be moved into a home.

 

I am the main caregiver and have to move her out her own home in a couple of weeks to a Care Home.

 

After a pretty stable period, I am now besides myself with anxiety back in full force.  The morning anxiety and the chattering teeth are simply horrendous too.  I am trying to be positive but am feeling terrible but I know I have to be strong.  But how?  I honestly think I am heading for a nervous breakdown and I don't know what to do.

 

I don't know how I am going to be strong enough to deal with this situation.  I want to curl up and ......

 

I know you can't help but I just needed to rant.  Sorry.

 

Angel

  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

[[An...]]

I realise only I can help myself and a negative attitude is not going to help.  There are many worse off than me and we all have challenges to face in life.  I guess I am lucky inasmuch this is the first time in my life I have had a major challenge and I guess I probably would have had a hard time dealing with it, benzo or no benzo.  But you are definitely more fragile in recovery.

 

I am already feeling somewhat better by giving myself a talking to. 

 

Angel

[[ve...]]

My mother's Alzheimer's is getting worse and she has to be moved into a home.

 

I am the main caregiver and have to move her out her own home in a couple of weeks to a Care Home.

 

After a pretty stable period, I am now besides myself with anxiety back in full force.  The morning anxiety and the chattering teeth are simply horrendous too.  I am trying to be positive but am feeling terrible but I know I have to be strong.  But how?  I honestly think I am heading for a nervous breakdown and I don't know what to do.

 

I don't know how I am going to be strong enough to deal with this situation.  I want to curl up and ......

I know you can't help but I just needed to rant.  Sorry.

Angel

  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

Hi Angel.  I'm very sorry to read about your mother's Alzheimers and the stress this will likely cause you as you manage her situation moving forward.  As you know, I had to help my elderly father with some pretty big transitions just over two years ago (after he had several years of cancer and a failing immune system) and the stress sent me over the edge and I ended up with shingles.  My advice is to accept what you can and try to keep things in perspective.  As bad as things might seem, you will be able to handle it and this is best for your mother now.  You are doing your best to help her get situated, according to the input of doctors, neighbors and perhaps others.  Things will unfold as they will and there will be some uncertainty for all of you.  I am confident that you will continue to be the best caregiver and daughter that you can, but not at the expense of making yourself ill!!!  I let that happen to me with shingles, trying to be a "perfect son" and I regret it now.  Also, the "Mindfulness and Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety" by Forsyth has some good input about coping with anxiety.  Check it out if you can.  Meanwhile, take care of yourself.  Eat well, avoid too much caffeine, get rest where you can and be gentle and kind with yourself as with your mother.

 

Keep us posted,

 

Vertigo

[[ve...]]

I realise only I can help myself and a negative attitude is not going to help.  There are many worse off than me and we all have challenges to face in life.  I guess I am lucky inasmuch this is the first time in my life I have had a major challenge and I guess I probably would have had a hard time dealing with it, benzo or no benzo.  But you are definitely more fragile in recovery.

I am already feeling somewhat better by giving myself a talking to. 

Angel

 

Exactly right.  Life's challenges don't stop when we're on or off the benzo and I agree that our systems seem more fragile in recovery.  I try to focus on the positive that my father lived a very productive and happy 85 years before things started to get really difficult for him (and me) which is partly why I took that first valium back in 2008.  But we are allowed to make mistakes too.    In his case, we managed to keep him in his home with caregivers but there was a transition period that was quite difficult.  This will be tough for your mother, no doubt about it.  She may not understand it and will likely be very angry with you and the people who will take care of her daily needs moving forward.  You may feel guilty that you could have done more... which is all natural.  We can't be super kids either.  You will likely need  to reframe your initial recations and realize that your mother is not capable of comprehending her situation now, that her neurological and behavioral limitations  make it impossible to remain in her home now.  What will happen with her dog now?  I think you wrote in an earlier post that she had a small dog.  Will you take the dog or find a home for it?

 

By the way, a negative attitude is permitted!  You are going through a very rough time and it will be natural to feel down on yourself, guilty, angry at times and a whole host of emotions.  You may even find yourself feeling gulity for resenting the responsibilities placed on you.  One of the things I like about ACT therapy and the approach in the Mindfulness and Acceptance Workbook for Anxiety by Forsyth is that it does focus on ACCEPTANCE, not just merely changing negative thoughts and emotions to positives like cognitive therapy approaches might do.  Yes, there can be some benefit to putting a positive spin on things when you can, but one must also (IMHO) also accept the pain and negatives, or suffering, grief, and losses as sometimes being a natural part of life's ups and downs.

 

Hang in there Angel,

 

Vertigo

[[An...]]

Thanks so much Verti

 

I was hoping you might see my thread as I know you faced similar challenges although I did not realise how much your own father's situation impacted upon your own health.  Shingles is an awful disease and you must have suffered badly, you are very brave.

 

I had a sleepless night before yesterday's meeting with the care givers and the mental health team, my brother and I drove a round trip of 7 hours to get there and during the meeting I had a dreadful anxiety attack and could hardly stop shaking.  This continued most of the day and peaked again about 5.30pm.  It settled after a couple of beta blockers and in time for bed last night.

 

This morning's cortisol surge was really bad but I am pretty used to them as I normally wake up terrified and with chattering teeth.  But it serves to remind how fragile I still am.  Then a phone call with a girlfriend got me crying my eyes out which I think was a good thing.

 

I have been reading some positivity threads and am feeling a bit better.  I actually have a couple of Mindful books which I have never even opened but I am going to start one now.  I have noted the ones you mentioned too.  I think I need them.  Also when I get back to Spain I plan to continue with my CBT.

 

The dog - well I am so lucky - it was a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack but I have actually found a care home close to all of us in London, in the countryside, small with only 16 dementia residents which is prepared to take Mum's small dog.  She says the dog can sleep in Mum's room.  The owner is going to visit Mum in the next 10 days to see if she is suitable for the home and vice versa so I am praying that works out, then we can bring her down which is a challenge in itself, but one step at a time.  I hope the lady will accept Mum.  If she doesn't we will have to think again because it is really unlikely I will find another suitable carehome who will accept the dog.

 

Thank you so very much Verti - I don't know you but I feel I do and I LOVE YA!

 

Angel xx

[[ve...]]

HI Vertigo.  I can't believe how much better I feel after adding the L Tryptophan.  It is the piece that has been missing for me.  I hope I continue to feel as well as I am.  I am only taking 500mg at bedtime and I am sleeping like a rock.  All the morning funkiness has disappeared and the lagging mini episodes of tinnitus are also almost gone.  I am up and moving around and feeling a general sense of well being.  Keeping my fingers crossed that I will continue to move forward.  Sure wish I had tried L tryptophan instead of a damn benzo...oh well can'tget caught up in trying to change the past.I just ordered and am adding tyrosine next to my regime.  I plan taking it in the am to help with energy levels.  I have read it can rev you up but some report that it makes them feel calm and clear.  I have stopped the Seriphos and now only taking magnesium at about 10pm and then the L Tryptophan at bedtime.  I did get some sublingual GABA that the author recommends but did not feel any thing but a little nausea after taking if for a few days and I think the nausea was because of the peppermint flavor (pretty strong).  So once I get the tyrosine on board I will have addressed 3 of the 4 major aminos associated with each mood type.  I will eventually try the DPA as I tested positive for all for mood types on the questionnaire. Anyway feeling hopeful that this will be a big step forward in healing the underlying issues that pointed me to a benzo in the first place.  If the DPA does not add anything I will just stop it as well.  I want to make sure and give them each a try -one at a time- so I know if one causes any negative effect-which I will attribute to the fact that my brain does not require it.I really like the book and am so happy I am getting such relief.  My husband has also started the L tryptophan and reports deep deep sleep and overall general sense of calm and more peacefulness...L tryptophan is recommended before 5htp as it beings the same relief AND addresses many other bodily functions the 5htp does not.

Have a wonderful day to all!

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi.  "IF ONLY"!!!  I was recently re-reading a book I bought about five years ago called "From Fatigued To Fantastic" by Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum.  As I've posted here before, I have had some issues with fatigue and anxiety BEFORE I ever took a benzo.  Unfortunately, the chapter on sleep in his book includes klonopin and xanax as well as Deseryl (trazodone) as viable options for sleep aids although he does advise very "small" doses (which we know are not in fact small) and he does suggest tapering off (of course too quickly).  But he also does mention other herbs and natural remedies which can be tried either separately or in addition to "small" does of prescription sleep meds.  Later in the book, there is a section on Amino Acids where both Tyrosine and L-Tryptophan are mentioned at greater length.  If only we had just tried the L-Tryptophan and/or tyrosine first, like you said Mimi .  I also had a crappy internist who over prescribed 10mg of valium for me in 2008 when 2 or 2.5mg would have been plenty to deal with that jet lag on that trip, according to the neurologist who I saw later.  Maybe I would have had less of a recovery period or not gotten shingles had my initial dose not been as high, who knows.  20/20 hindsight.  Some other things mentioned in the book are calcium and magnesium which can reportedly help with sleep for some.  He believes people who suspect chronic fatigue or who have it should get at least 8 hours of steady sleep however one can achieve it (including via benzos or antidepressants... whatever it takes).  Of course I don't agree with that part, but I do think I would feel better with more consecutive deep sleep and would be curious how I would feel if I could find a way to sleep 8 consecutive hours.  So I am planning to try the L-Tryptophan before bed, perhaps will give it a try next week.  I went to bed last night at around 11:30PM after watching the State of the Union address and some of the post analysis on the news.  I managed to sleep til about 6:00AM and feel decent but not "fantastic".  I'm sure some of you out there would be thrilled to get 6.5 hours of straight sleep.  I don't want to sound greedy.  I just feel intuitively that I really need more sleep to complete my healing on this journey, that final 5% that seems so elusive.

 

Just read your reply Angel.  Yes, it was a very rough time the couple of years prior to taking valium and of course during taper and the aftermath of my father's battle with cancer and my own health struggles post taper and post shingles.  You're right.  Life and stress did not stop with the benzo although the valium did numb things for a while .  My father has had cancer for over five years now and while he has been very fortunate to have several remissions, it's not been without several hospitalizations, illnesses, general health declines and medical challenges.  Also, a difficult sibling has made things very stressful at times, something which sounds like you won't have to deal with, which is a plus.  I just read that you do have a sib but hopefully he's of the helpful variety!  I also read that you have had difficulty sleeping the other night.  Perhaps you have been off the benzo long enough to consider trying the L-Tryptophan that Mimi has found helpful and which is mentioned in "The Mood Cure" book she cited as well as the other one I just posted about.  Of course I do not recommend parts in the book by Teitlebaum in regards to benzos!  Anyway, it seems reasonable that sleep and rest are very important when under stress.  It seems that both books mention that the amino acids are worth trying, even before melatonin.  I think I'll give the L-Tryptophan a go next week myself.  Regarding the panic attack and shaking...  Try to not label them as "dreadful" if you can, Angel.  I know it may feel that way but it really is important to try and reframe them as "less of a big deal".  One approach is to even welcome them and "wish for them", something called "paradoxical intention".  That which we resist persists kind of philosophy.  Perhaps a bit over the top but you get the idea, best to not catastrophize even the "worst" anxiety. That is great news if you can find a home that will take both your mother and her dog .  Will keep a good thought and prayer for your mum.

 

 

V

 

[[ve...]]

HI Vertigo,I wanted to ask you if your symptoms got worse at 11 months off.  Digestive symptoms are kicking up again, along with others.    I don't want to take a PPI, again...but I may have to take zantac, or one of those.  IBS is socking it to me, too. 

Interesting about AloeCure.  Where do they sell it ?

When did you notice a big improvement in your symptoms ?

Sunny girl  

 

Hi Sunny.  My "withdrawal" symptoms became worse at 9 months off, at which time I had elevated blood pressure and a resurgence of symptoms such as cog fog and jelly legs after a very stressful family situation and a not wise period of weight gain (partly due to too much junk food consumption, too much caffeine and alcohol reintroduction in summer 2010).  After a few months of too rapid weight loss, adrenal fatigue set in by month 13 at the end of 2010, high anxiety and an attempt to go off proton pump inhibitors.  At 14 months, despite losing 30 lbs, anxiety spiked and although  I was healthier in some ways having shed the excess weight, I had gone too far.  It was also around this time that we took on a sick puppy from a local shelter, adding to the stress and resulting in a few weeks of sleep trouble due to the housebreaking needs of the dog.  Fortunately, it all settled down by about 16 months and I eventually wrote my "success story" at 18 months, at which point I had seen significant improvement in symptoms and declared 95% healing, which for me has so far been as good as it gets.  I am hoping that the remaining 5% can be addressed with better sleep, perhaps with the help of L-Tryptophan or some other supplement.  Keep in mind that in many regards, I view my health as better than before I took that first valium.  I do not wake up at 3AM with insomnia (although I tend to get up at 5:30 and seem to be done sleeping even though I feel I could use more rest) and my overall anxiety levels are much less than three years ago when I took the first valium and overall anxiety is significantly less than a year ago when the peak of that final wave occurred.

 

The occasional zantac can be helpful for indigestion.  Deglycyrrhinated licorice root as outlined in the book "Tired of being Tired"  by Dr. Hanley can be tried as well.  She also recommends some aloe leaf extract (50mg I think) as well as 3500mg L-Glutamine as part of the formula for ongoing indigestion.  Also, she recommends supergreen drinks as part of the recovery from adrenal burn out.  There are also sections in the book about Tyrosine, L Tryptophan... as well as other amino acids and/or supplements (which one should check with your doctor about before adding, especially if taking an a/d or other medications).  As for the "aloeCure", I don't know if it works, it was a half page ad at the back of the Financial section of USA Today that I happened to see last week.  I suspect it is advertised regularly there.  I have no idea if it works but it might be worth trying?

 

Best,

 

Vertigo

[[An...]]

HI Vertigo

I can't believe how much better I feel after adding the L Tryptophan.  It is the piece that has been missing for me.  I hope I continue to feel as well as I am.  I am only taking 500mg at bedtime and I am sleeping like a rock.  All the morning funkiness has disappeared and the lagging mini episodes of tinnitus are also almost gone.  I am up and moving around and feeling a general sense of well being.  Keeping my fingers crossed that I will continue to move forward.  Sure wish I had tried L tryptophan instead of a damn benzo...oh well can'tget caught up in trying to change the past.

 

I just ordered and am adding tyrosine next to my regime.  I plan taking it in the am to help with energy levels.  I have read it can rev you up but some report that it makes them feel calm and clear.  I have stopped the Seriphos and now only taking magnesium at about 10pm and then the L Tryptophan at bedtime.  I did get some sublingual GABA that the author recommends but did not feel any thing but a little nausea after taking if for a few days and I think the nausea was because of the peppermint flavor (pretty strong).  So once I get the tyrosine on board I will have addressed 3 of the 4 major aminos associated with each mood type.  I will eventually try the DPA as I tested positive for all for mood types on the questionnaire. Anyway feeling hopeful that this will be a big step forward in healing the underlying issues that pointed me to a benzo in the first place.  If the DPA does not add anything I will just stop it as well.  I want to make sure and give them each a try -one at a time- so I know if one causes any negative effect-which I will attribute to the fact that my brain does not require it.

 

I really like the book and am so happy I am getting such relief.  My husband has also started the L tryptophan and reports deep deep sleep and overall general sense of calm and more peacefulness.

 

Marina I second Vertigo's suggestion that you check out her book The Mood Cure as it really addresses the Thyroid and the connections to our neurotransmitters and overall health.  She also has a website moodcure.com where you can get more information and take the questionaire on whether you are experiencing the various mood types.

 

For everyone still tapering I think this is all something to consider once you have put the taper behind you.  When I spoke to the author on the phone she advised me to complete my taper and then address my condition once I was somewhat stable.  Actually the fact that she gave me this advice and did not push me onto supplements during my taper...gave her more credibility to my thinking.

 

Let me know how the L tryptophan works for you Verti.  We are all different so not sure you will feel as me but I sure hope it beings you

some deep sleep and beautiful dreams.  I felt some relief the first night but I do think it has a cumulative effect as the "serotonin" reservoirs fill up and are restored.  Maybe in a few months I can discontinue as she advises and see how I fare. 

 

I know some find relief from w/d when adding an antidepressant so serotonin seems to be involved on some level.  If so then adding the L tryptophan which increases serotonin "should"  bring relief and correct the condition that was exaccerbated by the stress that w/d brings to our system causing serotonin levels to decrease.  L tryptophan is recommended before 5htp as it beings the same relief AND addresses many other bodily functions the 5htp does not.

 

Have a wonderful day to all!

Mimi

 

Hi Mimi

 

Are you saying that the L-Tryptophan helps with anxiety?  Because that is my main bugbear - morning anxiety and daytime nerviness as well as bouts of anxiety.

 

To be honest, apart from a bad patch of insomnia which lasted a week to 10 days a while ago, I have generally been sleeping like a baby.  I take 5mg melatonin at night.  But I would be very interested to try something for my nerves.

 

Thanks.

 

Angel

[[ve...]]

The herbs I have heard that may lower anxiety or promote relaxation are valerian root, kava and Theanine.  However, there may be some impact on GABA center so I would research it carefully before taking any of them.  As far as L Tryptophan for anxiety, my understanding is that is can have antidepressant effect by facilitating production of serotonin.  I think it may also result in lower anxiety as some SSRIs do have impact on both depression and anxiety but perhaps Mimi or others have more info.  Are you sleeping 8 solid hours in a row on a consistent basis Angel?  Also, if you are already taking melatonin, one might want to be careful about adding too much L-tryptophan which ultimately converts to serotonin and then I believe into melatonin.  I'm not a doc but maybe taper the melatonin down to 1 or 2mg before adding L-Tryptophan?  Perhaps getting advice from a neuropath doc might be helpful too.

 

Vertigo

[[An...]]

Hi Verti

 

Yes I am sleeping 8+ hours ... like a baby actually.  This is one good thing that has come out of this, pre-benzos I suffered bad insomnia, even belonged to an insomnia site.  Since my benzo experience, on the whole I have been sleeping really well with the melatonin.  Not sure if it the melatonin but I haven't tried without to be honest.

 

Angel

[[ch...]]

hi vertigo      thanks for getting back to me and thanks for the advice.i dont know what the kindling is if you get time could you explain please.it would be my luck that i would have something else to put up with.ill carry on in march and taper the last 30mls of a/d and hope everything will get a bit better.just have to plod on a while longer.thanks speak soon.

[[mt...]]

HI Angel,

I highly recommend the book called The Mood Cure which you can preview for free on Amazon.  The author does a good job explaining the effects of having low nerurtransmitters and how we can restore them to feel better.  If Neurotransmitters were in great shape BEFORE benzo w/d, the stress of tapering would be enough to deplete them to some extent.  Add to that the fact that for many of us we were already in some state of stress that required us to use a benzo in the first place.  FYI STRESS depletes neurotransmitters- in particular serotonin. Other contributing culprits can be our unique genetic biology and diet.

 

It is fairly simple to add the 4 amino acids she recommends (one at a time so you can observe your reaction to each).  If you experience a reaction such as headaches, nausea etc simply discontinue.

 

Aminos recommnded are

L tryptophan

GABA

Tyrosine

DPA 

 

You can take a test online to determine which you are lacking...could be 1 or all 4.  In my case I was lacking in all 4.

 

I was also a rather good sleeper but adding the L tryptophan has brought a level of sleep I had forgot about...I am almost drooling I am in such a deep wonderful sleep.  And nice postive dreams...

 

If you are experiencing morning cortisol then you may get some help from taking Seriphos (also ordered off of amazon) which is very helpful in restoring proper HPA Axis function.  Seriphos is proven to "calm" the pituitary so it stops signaling the adrenals to make cortisol.  I took it for a few weeks and definately felt immediate improvement.  I took it at about 6pm and then added magnesium at about 10pm.  When  added the L tryptophan the morning am rushes have completely disappeared (after one week).  So could have been the combination.  I stopped the Seriphos as they recommend you take a break as you do not want to reduce your cortisol too low. (its that effective!)

 

The author recommends GABA for anxiety and tranquilizer healing.  I tried the GABA calm sublingual tablets but did not feel much so stopped those. 

 

I was so scared to try anything but felt the L tryptophan was fairly safe as you get about 500mg in a .5lb serving of turkey.  I do think that is passes into blood more efficiently as the effect on my sleep is pretty profound....certainly something I never felt form eating turkey.  There is definately an overall calmness and clarity I am experiencing as well.  I believe Ginger said she takes 2 500mg a nite and you can increase if needed.

 

I will be trying the tyrosine next and then the DPA and let you know how I respond.  Of course each of us would have different needs so we all need to try them out and see if we feel a benefit.  Personally I may  have my thyroid and adrenals tested if my metabolism does not kick in...but all in good time.  I certainly have a better understanding of how my body functions than I did a few years ago. The upside - I am committed to regaining my health whatever it takes.

 

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Mimi

 

[[ve...]]

Hi Mimi.  Good info.  Just a quick comment about thyroid.  In the book "From Fatigued to Fantastic" and in a few others I've read, although I only skimmed the thyroid chapters, I think there were many comments about how the tests out there are not accurate or something about only providing a normal range... and that even if you have "normal" numbers, you may still have a thyroid issue, whether underactive or overactive.  I will try to take another look.  Also, pertaining to GABA as a supplement, I think I read that it just doesn't do the job because it can't cross the blood/brain barrier whereas the L-Tryptophan can and thus, the many positive results that so many seem to see.  I'm just paraphrasing after rapid skimming, so don't quote me.  L-Tryptophan was supposedly used as an a/d before prozac and some of the others came out later.  Apparently, there was a scare in the eighties or nineties (can't remember) when a Japanese company distributed contaminated L Tryptophan and it was disallowed in the United States for some period and then people and/or doctors were afraid of it.  It's now had a kind of revival in the last five years or so, maybe longer.  As something that seems to have some a/d properties (in that it promotes production of serotonin), it can apparently impact/lower both depression and anxiety in addition to improving sleep.  We shall see  .  Similarly, Tyrosine can help with alertness and attention, has some influence on dopamine and/or norepinephrine neurotransmitters if I recall.  As such, some with strong morning anxiety might be advised to not use it as Tyrosine can be very activating.  On the other hand, one never knows how one might react.  Some folks who take ritalin or amphetamines for ADD as an example, might have a calming effect whereas others may experience the opposite.

 

Trying one or more of these benign amino acids is probably harmless (assuming you are not also taking other antidepressants or mediations that might interact adversely).  The author points out that if already taking an SSRI or other a/d, adding too much L-Tryptophan can lead to an excess of serotonin which can be dangerous.  Also, adding Tyrosine might not be advised if taking certain other types of antidepressants or even herbal ones like St. John's Wort. Always best to also check with your doctor before adding even supplements which are in many cases not regulated by the FDA..  Also, as mentioned in an earlier post, Angel, since you are already taking melatonin, you might wish to taper that down from 5 to 1 or 2mg before adding L-Tryptophan which I believe converts the Serotonin to melatonin if I read correctly.

 

Vertigo

[[An...]]

Mimi

 

Many thanks for taking trouble to get back to me.  The info is really useful which I am going to think about.  I have read the anxiety may eventually disappear and I am hoping for that.

 

Best wishes

Angel

[[mt...]]

Hi Verti

Oh yes...its important to always research and be prudent when adding anything to one's regime!  I am not taking any other medications and was very resistant to adding even a supplement.  Still I knew my body is lacking in something... 

 

As for thyroid I tested "normal" using blood tests but would like to take saliva and also use the thermometer readings to get a better view of whats going on.  Once I finish  adding the amino acids and seeing how I feel that will be the next step.  I would want to work with an "experienced" practitioner to oversee my progress as it can be tricky treating by symptoms alone (when tests look normal).  Luckliy  Dr Shames the author of Feeling Fat, Fuzzy, or Frazzled is just 10 miles away and I think I will head over and have him assess me.

 

The great news is that I FEEL like getting out and about and actually have the focus and drive to move forward.  That in itself is a huge step forward!

 

Mimi

[[ve...]]

Sounds like you have researched very well and have a good plan, Mimi. Also, isn't the author of the Mood Cure somewhere around  Mill Valley in Northern CA?  That sounds convenient.  Even the author of "Tired of Being Tired" and of The Schwartzbein Principle are I believe down in Southern CA, the latter in Santa Barbara, not a long drive from my father's home.  I really should look into a neuropathic doc here in Atlanta since I'm not all that impressed with my current doctor.    I think if you aren't feeling well soon, it's always not a bad idea to get your blood checked and see how glucose, cholesterol, thyroid, hormones... and other lab measures are doing.  That's great that you are feeling energetic to get out and about.  Maybe you won't need the Tyrosine or perhaps it will make you feel even more alert.  As a reminder to others, one ought to be careful about adding these amino acids or other supplments if already taking certain antidepressants or other medications or supplements such as melatonin.  I think I am going to give the L-Tryptophan a try, perhaps as early as tomorrow night.

 

Cheers,

 

Verti

[[mt...]]

HI Verti

Yes Julia Ross is in Mill Valley and Dr Shames author of Thyroid Power is in Sebastopol... Both on either side of me!  I had all my blood work done a few months ago...All was well.  Cortisol a bit high in am and blood sugar was on the high end but normal.  Estrogen high but Dr brushed it off...And those were all standard blood tests...I would like to try the saliva and blood spot testing throughout the day.  Not alot of Docs are up on thyroid adrenal stuff...

 

FYI-You can join the Canary Club and get discounted testing and then a phone consult with Dr Shames...no insurance taken but I may go for it except I will go in person for office visit.

 

Check out canaryclub dot org.  You can read up on Dr Shames etc.

 

Ok thanks for all the support!

Mimi

[[ve...]]

Hi Mimi and post benzo buddies.  Sounds like you have the bases covered locally .  Ok, I took some L-Tryptophan last night.  However, I misread the bottle and I believe took 1000MG by mistake .  The bottle said to take three capsules at night to support sleep and was labeled 500mg on the outside of the bottle.  So I falsely ASSumed incorrectly that 3 pills was 500mg!  Intending to try 350mg to start, I took two pills.  This morning I read that 3 capsules is actually 1.5g which I believe would be 1500MG   So I think the directions on the bottle is suggesting 1500MG "to support restful sleep"!  Glad I only took 2 of them so 1000MG should not be a big deal, but a good reminder to carefully read the bottle!  Anyway, I went to sleep at about 11PM.  I was a little hyped about whether it would work and so on so I tossed and turned for about 15 to 20 minutes which is unlike me.  I usually fall asleep within five minutes of head hitting the pillow.  On the other hand, I had taken a 30 minute nap from 4:30 to 5:00PM earlier in the day yesterday and I had a caffeinated cup of tea at 5PM, something I usually do not do so late in the day but did so because we had an evening outing to go to last night and "needed" a little "pick me up".  I can not say I had relaxing dreams but I vaguely recall that I did some dreaming.  I believe I was awakened around 5ish but quickly  fell back asleep until 6AM, which made it a total of 6.5 hours.  I awoke feeling fairly rested but I am not quite sold on the L-Tryptophan just yet. I think I will try 1 pill (500MG) this evening with no caffeine after 2PM today.  Also, I will monitor how my energy is this morning and see how it goes.  Bottom line is that it's too early to tell.  Will report back later.

 

Best,

 

Verti

[[ve...]]

hi vertigo      thanks for getting back to me and thanks for the advice.i dont know what the kindling is if you get time could you explain please.it would be my luck that i would have something else to put up with.ill carry on in march and taper the last 30mls of a/d and hope everything will get a bit better.just have to plod on a while longer.thanks speak soon.

 

kindling (according to another buddy here named Ginia):

 

"The kindling effect is where multiple withdrawals, putting the body into withdrawal and out of withdrawal multiple times can cause a hypersensitisation of the receptor systems and thus causing the nervous system to be hypersensitised which can lead people to not being able to stabalise on their benzos as well as they used to and as well as to feeling toxic on the drugs and as well as finding that each withdrawal is worse than the previous. In simple laymans terms it is often but not always harder the 2nd time around and even harder the 3rd time around at withdrawal, in people who have completely withdrawn and then went back on. This does not seem to be the case for people who have partially tapered down their dosage and then upped dose. It seems only the case for those who have completely withdrawn for more than a couple of weeks and then went back on multiple times"

 

In other words Chissy, it may be that your withdrawal and recovery might be a little more complicated or perhaps take a little longer than "average", but it's not something else to put up with or get worried over, just a possible result of multiple times on and off the benzo.  It may not impact you tremendously, there are other factors that might be more of a factor in your recovery, such as other medications or tapers as well as nutrition and other health issues.  The main thing is that you are off the benzo now and putting distance from it.  Hopefully after you finish your taper off cymbalta, you will start to feel even better with time .

 

Best wishes,

 

Vertigo