The Dizziness Group: For those who are floating, boating, falling or flying

[[Be...]]

I never had any vestibular problems or tinnitis when I got off the benzo's or Z-drugs.  I never read anywhere either where it's ototoxic.  Could you please cite a reference about that so I can read it?

[[Ga...]]

Hopper my friend….if I were you I wouldn’t claim defeat just yet. I know it’s been awhile for you but all is not loss. There’s still improvements coming your way. There’s so many that took a long time but are healed now. Keep your hope 

 

Bonty to answer your question…. The pills injured the vestibular system in our bodies. It’s very very very common to occur. The pills are well known to be ototoxic ( toxic to the ears). So I guess the answer is that it’s both. The ears are affected and it’s a WD symptom.  Lapis can post for you the articles about this.

 

Of course it's ototoxic. Look how many of us have this dreaded tinnitis. I was never exposed to loud noises and have it for 11 yrs now and dizziness and balance probs.

I hope you feel better soon lady den.

Were you ever on Xanax?

[[La...]]

Gardenia no I was never on anything except Ambien CR ( extended release that releases twice with different doses when taken). Amazingly, I’ve seen and heard of people taking it for years then they taper off ( some rapidly) or CT it. They might get dizzy or boaty unbalanced for a few weeks along with insomnia for a few months. After that, they walk away healed. Some of these people have taken it double or more the length of time that I have. For my first 6 years, I was only on the regular kind at the lowest dispensing dose ( 5mg). The other two years was one year of the 12mg CR and 10 month taper. I honestly believe I received my biggest damage from that year of the doctor updosing me to the highest dose which is ill advised to give to women. Especially for that long. When I was coming off of it, the pharmacist told me that high of a dose…..he only had two people- me being one of them. He happily called the manufacturer to get more information on it to assist me in getting off of it. What the pharmacist and I found out was astounding! Because I don’t have any literature to post with the explanation then I’m not allowed to share what I know.

[[Pa...]]

Gardenia no I was never on anything except Ambien CR ( extended release that releases twice with different doses when taken). Amazingly, I’ve seen and heard of people taking it for years then they taper off ( some rapidly) or CT it. They might get dizzy or boaty unbalanced for a few weeks along with insomnia for a few months. After that, they walk away healed. Some of these people have taken it double or more the length of time that I have. For my first 6 years, I was only on the regular kind at the lowest dispensing dose ( 5mg). The other two years was one year of the 12mg CR and 10 month taper. I honestly believe I received my biggest damage from that year of the doctor updosing me to the highest dose which is ill advised to give to women. Especially for that long. When I was coming off of it, the pharmacist told me that high of a dose…..he only had two people- me being one of them. He happily called the manufacturer to get more information on it to assist me in getting off of it. What the pharmacist and I found out was astounding! Because I don’t have any literature to post with the explanation then I’m not allowed to share what I know.

 

Hi LadyDen,

 

I for one would be interested in knowing what your pharmacist had to say, a member doesn't need to provide citations when speaking of their experience or providing information from a second source, you're relating your conversation and what was discussed.

 

As for the information you supplied about ototoxic drugs, the team feels that the fact that you mentioned Lapis2 and the multitude of studies she's posted on this thread and the threads in Benzo's in the New's is enough to cover your lack of citations, thank you Lapis2.

 

Hopper my friend….if I were you I wouldn’t claim defeat just yet. I know it’s been awhile for you but all is not loss. There’s still improvements coming your way. There’s so many that took a long time but are healed now. Keep your hope 

 

Bonty to answer your question…. The pills injured the vestibular system in our bodies. It’s very very very common to occur. The pills are well known to be ototoxic ( toxic to the ears). So I guess the answer is that it’s both. The ears are affected and it’s a WD symptom. Lapis can post for you the articles about this. 

[[La...]]

For some detailed info on medications that can affect balance and hearing, there's this medical journal article from 2020 with three supplementary tables:

 

Drugs inducing hearing loss, tinnitus, dizziness

and vertigo: an updated guide

 

https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/7946-7952.pdf

 

Supplementary Table I. List of the active principles divided according to the target apparatus

and pharmacological mechanisms of action, with indication of the type of side effect using a number

from 1 to 4 (1: ototoxic drugs; 2: drugs inducing tinnitus; 3: drugs inducing vertigo or dizziness; 4:

drugs inducing generic hearing disorders). Sub-lists A1-A2-A3-A4 show the active principles sorted

by type of audio-vestibular side effect (A1: ototoxic drugs; A2: drugs inducing tinnitus; A3: drugs

inducing vertigo or dizziness; A4: drugs inducing vertigo or dizziness

 

https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/Supplementary-Table-I-9318.pdf

 

 

Supplementary Table II. List of the active principles divided according to the target apparatus

and pharmacological mechanisms of action, with indication of the type of side effect using a number

from 1 to 4 (1: ototoxic drugs; 2: drugs inducing tinnitus; 3: drugs inducing vertigo or dizziness; 4:

drugs inducing generic hearing disorders) and the scale of severity according to Adverse Drug

Reactions (ADR) - a: very common (≥ 10%); b: common (≥ 1% e < 10%); c: uncommon (≥ 0.1% e

<1%); d: rare ( ≥ 0.01% e < 0.1%); e: very rare (< 0.01%); f: unknown

 

https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/Supplementary-Table-II-9318.pdf 

 

 

Supplementary Table III. List of commercial names of drugs in alphabetical order with

indication of the type of side effect using a number from 1 to 4 (1: ototoxic drugs; 2: drugs inducing

tinnitus; 3: drugs inducing vertigo or dizziness; 4: drugs inducing vertigo or dizziness) and the scale

of severity according to ADR (a: very common (≥ 10%); b: common (≥ 1% e < 10%); c: uncommon

(≥ 0.1% e <1%); d: rare ( ≥ 0.01% e < 0.1%); e: very rare (< 0.01%); f: unknown). For each drug, a

reference number for the corresponding active principle listed in Table II has been indicated. An

asterisk (*) indicates that the same drug is produced by multiple pharmaceutical companies.

 

 

https://www.europeanreview.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/Supplementary-Table-III-9318.pdf

[[La...]]

Thank you Lapis 

[[He...]]

Thanks Lapis. This is going to be my evening reading.

[[La...]]

You're welcome! It's not light reading, but it's very informative. I refer to this article a lot -- in particular, the supplementary articles with the medications listed by type and how they affect hearing and/or balance. Very handy.

[[Ga...]]

Thank you lapis 

I wish I could just have a day with no dizziness, have my balance back and feel normal.

 

I think I read an article that said about 200 drugs are ototoxic. I hate this screaming in my ear  sounds like a jet engine.

[[La...]]

Yes, definitely, Gardenia. It's a pretty brutal experience. As far as the number of medications that can affect hearing and/or balance go, I've read much higher figures, but it seems hard to find consensus on that. As new medications are added, the numbers may change. In any case, there are A LOT! The supplementary tables above seem to be quite comprehensive in terms of listing the medications.

[[La...]]

Yes there’s certainly higher numbers of drugs than that. 

My tinnitus is way better than it was. Mine has always sounded like the old time tv 📺 that went off air at midnight. Do you all remember those? It had the striped colored lines and loud annoying continuous beep when it went off air. Or like the beep of the EBS ( emergency broadcast system) 

[[Ho...]]

Mine is like a high pitched squeal or shrieking sound. Like a million cicadas in my brain crying out. It’s bad today. Mine will change pitch when I move my jaw so trying to eat is always fun! 🙄 and sometimes it goes super high pitched in one ear then goes silent like I’m deaf. Then it returns to the normal shrieking. Ugh.

[[La...]]

Wow Hopper that is a hell of a description. Sounds awful. Mine varies now in loudness. When it gets louder, it’s usually a signal that a wave is starting. When it’s at its normal level it’s mild in the background. I’ve even had periods recently to where it was barely there. 

[[Ho...]]

Any sound today is unbearable. Sights and sounds are too much for me today. Making me feel like I’m going to fall out and die. The chest pain doesn’t help.

 

I just need this to be over one way or another.

[[La...]]

Hopper I’m feeling you on the strong desire for this to be done. I’m in morning dread/wave right now. At 18 months now I thought I’d be feeling better than this too. I’ve had about 3 consecutive mornings or days of very mild mornings it makes you have a false thought that the bad mornings are over. But apparently not. They just cycle back. But the good thing is that atleast I’m getting breaks now. So it lets me know that I’ve healed a bit more and to know that my brain can get it right. I just need it to stay that way. I’m praying that it does soon. I wish the same for you too.

Happy holidays to you and everyone reading here!

[[Se...]]

Anyone here have vertigo before benzos?

 

Bump 🥺

 

Hi tidefan,

I can only speak for myself -- no, I wasn't dizzy before all of this began. As far as there not being any responses, it could be that there aren't as many people logging in around here. I know I've been almost completely consumed by the COVID news, so I've hardly spent any time around here at all.

 

Have you had your dizziness symptoms checked by a doctor? Any vestibular testing? It may be difficult to get any of this right now due to the pandemic, but it might be worthwhile to have it done at some point. There are many different causes of dizziness, so it can be good to have things checked out.

 

I have vestibular migraines no head pain just dizziness and vertigo and Ativan , klonopin are treatments for it .

 

 

[[La...]]

Anyone here have vertigo before benzos?

 

Bump 🥺

 

Hi tidefan,

I can only speak for myself -- no, I wasn't dizzy before all of this began. As far as there not being any responses, it could be that there aren't as many people logging in around here. I know I've been almost completely consumed by the COVID news, so I've hardly spent any time around here at all.

 

Have you had your dizziness symptoms checked by a doctor? Any vestibular testing? It may be difficult to get any of this right now due to the pandemic, but it might be worthwhile to have it done at some point. There are many different causes of dizziness, so it can be good to have things checked out.

 

I have vestibular migraines no head pain just dizziness and vertigo and Ativan , klonopin are treatments for it .

 

Hi Seahawkfan,

I've certainly come across the use of certain benzos for short-term help with some kinds of dizziness. But the problem is that they can cause dizziness if used for too long. Here's a link to the Vestibular Disorders Association webpage on medications and "vestibular suppressants", like benzodiazepines, antihistamines and anticholinergics:

 

https://vestibular.org/article/diagnosis-treatment/treatments/medication/ 

 

Vestibular suppressants

 

Vestibular suppressants are drugs that reduce the intensity of vertigo and nystagmus evoked by a vestibular imbalance. These also reduce the associated motion sensitivity and motion sickness. Conventional vestibular suppressants consist of three major drug groups: anticholinergics, antihistamines and benzodiazepines.

 

 

Benzodiazepines

 

Diazepam (Valium®), clonazepam, lorazepam and alprazolam are benzodiazepines commonly prescribed for their effect as anxiolytics and antidepressants. These drugs also act as vestibular suppressants and can, in small dosages, be extremely useful for the management of acute vertigo3. They are also useful in controlling motion sickness4 and can also minimize anxiety and panic associated with vertigo. Habituation, impaired memory, increased risk of falling and vestibular compensation are potential side effects. Their use as vestibular suppressants should therefore be limited in time. Nevertheless, they should not be stopped suddenly because of potential withdrawal syndrome.

 

 

Antihistamines

 

Antihistamines include meclizine (Antivert®), dimenhydrinate, diphenhydramine (Benadryl®) and promethazine. These drugs can prevent motion sickness and reduce the severity of symptoms even if taken after the onset of symptoms5. Dry mouth and blurry vision are side effects that result from their anticholinergic action.

 

 

Anticholinergics

 

Anticholinergics are vestibular suppressants that inhibit firing in vestibular nucleus neurons6 as well as reduce the velocity of vestibular nystagmus in humans. The most effective single anticholinergic drug for the prophylaxis and treatment of motion sickness is scopolamine. All anticholinergics conventionally used in the management of vertigo or motion sickness have prominent side effects, often including dry mouth, dilated pupils and sedation.

 

 

Antiemetics

 

Antiemetics are drugs that are commonly used to control vomiting and nausea. The choice for vertiginous patients depends upon the route of administration and the side effect profile. Injectables are mostly used in the emergency room or inpatient settings. Dexamethasone (Decadron®) and ondansetron (Zofran®) are powerful and well-established inpatient-setting antiemetics. While not FDA approved, droperidol (Droleptan®) is widely used outside the U.S. The oral agents are only used for mild nausea, with sublingual administration preferable for outpatients. When an oral agent is appropriate, meclizine or dimenhidrinate (Dramamine®), antihistamines commonly used also as vestibular suppressants, are generally the first to be used because they rarely cause adverse effects any more severe than drowsiness. Phenothiazines, such as prochlorperazine (Compazine) and promethazine (Phenameth®, Phenergan®), are also effective antiemetics but side effects include sedation and the possibility of extrapyramidal symptoms (dystonia and Parkinsonism). Drugs that speed gastric emptying, such as metoclopramide (Reglan®) and Domperidone may also be helpful in managing vomiting7.

 

 

There's also a section on vestibular migraine on the same page. Have you tried any of the other medications listed here?:

 

Vestibular Migraine

 

This long-ignored condition is currently recognized as one of the most common causes for vertigo and dizziness. A number of criteria have to be addressed, but simplistically both migraine and vertigo or dizziness must be related in time in order to diagnose this condition. The treatment includes trigger avoidance, pharmacotherapy and vestibular rehabilitation. For acute attacks only symptomatic control is eventually effective (see section 2. Symptomatic control: vestibular suppressants and antiemetics) as migraine abortive agents such as triptans have reached inconclusive results. Prophylactic treatment protocols are based on the ones from migraine headache, and include β-blockers such as propranolol or metoprolol; calcium-channel blockers such as verapamil, antidepressants such as amitriptyline, fluoxetine, or venlafaxine10; anticonvulsants such as valproate or topiramate, and carbonic anhydrase inhibitors such as acetazolamide.

[[La...]]

I just came across this October 2021 review called "Current and Emerging Medical Therapies for Dizziness". You'll see that benzodiazepines are listed there, but also note that they're only listed for "acute peripheral vertigo" and not for chronic issues.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34538357/ 

 

Abstract

 

Medical therapies for dizziness are aimed at vertigo reduction, secondary symptom management, or the root cause of the pathologic process. Acute peripheral vertigo pharmacotherapies include antihistamines, calcium channel blockers, and benzodiazepines. Prophylactic pharmacotherapies vary between causes. For Meniere disease, betahistine and diuretics remain initial first-line oral options, whereas intratympanic steroids and intratympanic gentamicin are reserved for uncontrolled symptoms. For cerebellar dizziness and oculomotor disorders, 4-aminopyridine may provide benefit. For vestibular migraine, persistent postural perceptual dizziness and mal de débarquement, treatment options overlap and include selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants and calcium channel blockers.

[[Be...]]

The one thing that helps me to not be too dizzy or feel like I'll pass out is if I don't have too much stress on me.  When I feel alot of stress on me, I nearly pass out and I've got alot of that on me.

[[Ho...]]

Bad day here!  If I close my eyes (not tightly) and move my eyes around in their sockets it feels as if the world is spinning upside down. Moving them and holding them to the extreme left or right makes me feel as if I’m going to pass out. Tinnitus also on full blast today.

 

Anybody else experience this?

 

Also:  Is there any chance sugar intake could cause this? Or any of the WD symptoms?  I did have ice cream last night… 🤷🏻‍♂️

[[La...]]

Morning Hopper. If your symptoms are worse than before you ate ice cream then I’d say yes. Sugar and milk products can rev up WD symptoms. But the only way to tell is not have any for awhile then try again. If you rev up again then there’s the answer. It’s so hard to tell when you feel bad all the time. What I did when I thought something was a culprit, I kept a journal of what it was and how I felt 30 minutes to an hour later. This gets a bit trickier when you get further along in your recovery because of delayed reactions. So then I’d watch for a whole day or two.

Hopefully you’ll settle back down soon.

To answer your question yes when I close my eyes I feel the spinning more. Especially at night while going to sleep. It has improved.

[[Ho...]]

Thanks for the reply LadyDen!  I too was logging and journaling almost everything. And what I learned for the most part with the obvious exceptions aside, is that for me, most times there is no rhyme or reason to my symptom swings. Trying to figure them out can be maddening.  I felt decent yesterday by my standards. I actually went for two walks and today I can barely move my head around. Ugh!

[[Be...]]

Hopper, I've been eating sugar and candy and stuff full of sugar since I got off the pills and it's never bothered me.  Hopefully that wasn't the problem for you.

[[Ho...]]

I hope not Becksblue!  It’s the only thing I have left!  LOL

[[La...]]

Hopper it’s awesome that you had a decent day. That’s a good sign  And not surprise that you feel bad again. That’s how this goes. All we can do is roll with it as best as we can each day. What I hang on to is that each day is healing whether we see it or not. This wears us down. Test everything in us. But we survive! Keep distracting yourself and hang on to hope. Read success stories as often as you need. You ARE still healing.