Can't sleep all night - Please help!

[[xe...]]

I'm going to try the Seroquel tonight, to see if it works.

 

Also about to take my first Lexapro.

 

If I wanted to wean off the Zopiclone, would I just need to do it while I'm taking the Seroquel?

 

If you're changing two or three things at the same time, it's going to be almost impossible to have any idea what is having what effect.

[[8d...]]

I was prescribed 25mg for the Seroquel.

 

Trying to decide if I should keep going with Remeron (only been on for a week and doesn't put me to sleep) or give Lexapro a shot?

 

Any thoughts?

[[Wo...]]

I was prescribed 25mg for the Seroquel.

 

Trying to decide if I should keep going with Remeron (only been on for a week and doesn't put me to sleep) or give Lexapro a shot?

 

Any thoughts?

 

If the Remeron isn't working then I'd ditch it. Lexapro isn't for sleep so if you need that for anxiety and your doctor gave it to you then go ahead. Some people find it better to take Lexapro in the mornings to ensure that it doesn't interfere with sleep.

 

I only took one dose of Seroquel and it knocked me out cold in 15 minutes. I only slept for an hour or two though. But it was the only thing other than zopiclone that could put me to sleep.

[[8d...]]

So disappointed... Took 25mg of Seroquel and my body got really numb and heavy. But could not sleep. Took another 25mg and nothing. Waited 2 hours.

 

Is it rebound insomnia blocking the effects or it just sometimes not work.

 

I ended up taking 1mg Ativan and 7.5 Zopiclone to sleep.

 

So the choice now... Lexapro or Remeron.

 

Can Lexapro worsen my insomnia?

[[xe...]]

So disappointed... Took 25mg of Seroquel and my body got really numb and heavy. But could not sleep. Took another 25mg and nothing. Waited 2 hours.

If low doses are ineffective, higher doses are likely to be even less effective. At low doses Seroquel acts as a very strong antihistamine. At higher doses it begins to affect the dopamine and serotonin systems significantly, and will make you into a walking zombie but will not knock you out the way that a tranquilizer will.

 

Is it rebound insomnia blocking the effects or it just sometimes not work.

 

I ended up taking 1mg Ativan and 7.5 Zopiclone to sleep.

 

So the choice now... Lexapro or Remeron.

 

Can Lexapro worsen my insomnia?

 

Any of the drugs you've mentioned can do different things to different people, and they all have long-enough half-lives that whatever you do today, you've still got all the other drugs from yesterday in your blood. That's a very unpredictable situation.

 

I went through something very similar a year ago , with similar drugs. My own experience was that juggling one medication for another and being fixated on whether or not I'd sleep on a given night, just kept me obsessed with sleep, kept my CNS in a state of arousal, and made regular sleep impossible. The thing that finally worked for me was admitting defeat, giving up on the drugs entirely, and going through a really unpleasant 3-4 weeks* where I just didn't sleep very much. That was fine. It sucked, but in hindsight it was the best thing that could have happened because I learned that even if I feel like I'm going to go nuts or die from lack of sleep, I didn't go nuts, I didn't die, and over time my sleep returned to something like normal.

 

You say "lexapro or remeron" as though that's your only choice. It's not. Your body knows what it needs, and even if you're tired and anxious all the time, it's going to get the minimum amount of sleep it needs to continue to function.

 

If you'd been on benzos or z-drugs for years, then I'd probably feel a lot differently about what you're saying. Some people who have taken benzos for decades end up going through disrupted sleep for many months, and if someone is in that situation and hasn't been on any other drugs for a period of time, it's a lot easier to do something like start taking a low dose of Remeron without changing anything else, and actually understand something about how it's impacting you. You're not in that situation, though. You only took z-drugs for 2 months, so even if you just stopped taking them entirely and immediately, it seems very unlikely that you'd have what we'd consider long-term problems as a result. You've also been taking a lot of different classes of drugs that interact with each other, so even if you took Remeron for 3 days and seemed to sleep better, it would be very hard to say what's going on. I don't know what you should do, no one does -- but as long as you're in this huge state of flux where you're changing more than one thing at a time, constantly, you're not going to be able to understand what any of it means.

 

*it took me a month to level out, it doesn't mean it would take you that long. I had been on benzos for a decade, and spent the last 2 years of that tapering off.

[[Wo...]]

Tell us about what you do in terms of sleep hygiene. Regardless of what you take or don't take this is the most important thing.

[[xe...]]

Tell us about what you do in terms of sleep hygiene. Regardless of what you take or don't take this is the most important thing.

 

That's a really good point, and I feel foolish for blathering on for pages about drugs without thinking of it!

 

When I was at my worst with sleep, I had to go to a really rigid, 11pm-7am sleep pattern. I removed all light sources from the bedroom, installed serious light-proof curtains, and more or less shaped my whole life around sleeping a reliable pattern and not eating after about 9pm. It drove my wife completely bonkers (and she ended up sleeping in the living room for a lot of that period), but it was what I had to do to be sane.

[[Wo...]]

I removed all light sources from the bedroom, installed serious light-proof curtains

 

I did these things too and they really helped. I live up north and it is still light outside at 11pm and light again at 4:30am in the summer. For me, the most important thing is that I don't get into bed until I am yawning like crazy. So I'll sit in my basement in the complete dark for about 15 minutes before I plan to go to bed and after about 10 minutes of mind numbing boredom I start getting really sleepy. Then I get into bed. If I don't fall asleep within 30 minutes I repeat the process.

[[xe...]]

I did these things too and they really helped. I live up north and it is still light outside at 11pm and light again at 4:30am in the summer. For me, the most important thing is that I don't get into bed until I am yawning like crazy. So I'll sit in my basement in the complete dark for about 15 minutes before I plan to go to bed and after about 10 minutes of mind numbing boredom I start getting really sleepy. Then I get into bed. If I don't fall asleep within 30 minutes I repeat the process.

 

Wow, that's the real north, then! I can imagine that would wreak havoc with sleep even under the best of circumstances.

 

It's odd; I rarely fall asleep within 30 minutes. Some of that is because I usually mentally am waiting for my wife to fall asleep. But, what I notice is that my thoughts become kind of odd and distant and visual, and then if I can't sleep at all, they just stay odd and weird and visual. I think the thing that keeps me from getting up and reading or something, is that I'm interested in that weird, visual, not-awake not-asleep space.

 

8damien8, how has it been going the past few days? Are you having any luck with sleeping?

[[Wo...]]

Some of that is because I usually mentally am waiting for my wife to fall asleep.

 

It is for this reason that I sleep in a different room from my wife. I worry more about keeping her awake then myself.

[[8d...]]

Going to see a psychologist today, to see if we can put together a plan to get myself back on track.

 

The last week, I have stuck to taking 0.5 Klonopin and 25mg Seroquel at bedtime. It put me out for 4-5 hours, then I wake up, and I'm super anxious. I lay there, and eventually, drift back to sleep.

 

I have also been taking Lexapro for a week. The first night I took it, I felt a burning sensation through my upper body. Heat then chills. Awful feeling. Since that first night, it's been returning, usually it's what wakes me up at night.

 

After bouncing from pill to pill, I think I'm finally starting to see what the problem is. I get anxious at times, and this interferes with my ability to fall asleep. I started taking the Zopiclone, and that did all the work for me. Now I'm even more nervous about sleep, because I feel the only way I'll ever fall asleep, is if I take a pill.

 

I have been feeling depressed and anxious, but I almost feel like that is all based on the fact I'm not sleeping naturally, and I'm phobic about taking the meds. So I really don't think I need to be adding Lexapro to the mix.

 

What do you guys think?

[[Wo...]]

I have been feeling depressed and anxious, but I almost feel like that is all based on the fact I'm not sleeping naturally, and I'm phobic about taking the meds. So I really don't think I need to be adding Lexapro to the mix.

 

What do you guys think?

 

SSRIs take a month minimum to kick in and they usually cause a number of side effects in the first 1-2 weeks. If you are going to take an SSRI you need to give it 4-6 weeks before you make a judgement. If you need something for anxiety and feel that solving the anxiety may help with the sleep then maybe it will help (eventually).

[[ca...]]

All I can say 8Damien8 is stick with it and stay off the Zop and the benzos. Stopping Zopiclone for me was a breeze even after using it for 2 years. I could sleep just on over the counter antihistamines. But I liked taking it. I liked knowing I could just knock myself out. Now, fast forward years later and nothing works, I've gone through it all. I get anxious if I take anything, instead of it working. Nothing helps me sleep. So now, I have to do a very rapid taper of the stuff and deal with whatever agonizing fallout ensues. I'm out of options. I honestly don't know if I am going to make it.

 

Best of luck and hang in there. As bad as it seems now, it gets a lot worse with years of use. I used Seroquel for two years at 50-100 mgs of sleep-very low dose- and had to stop CT because one night my jaw slammed shut and my neck twitched, my arm flailed-terrified by the prospect of TD, I stopped immediately and can't take it again. Did work well for a time though. Remeron never did help me sleep once, just made me eat the whole house. Try over the counter antihistamines-they can work better than you'd think. They work better for me than Remeron, etc.

 

Just a thought-if you do have an issue with anxiety or some other issue-pre-drug-deal with it. Do cognitive behaviour therapy, counselling, relaxation exercises, yoga, whatever, but learn to deal with issues without going to drugs. Otherwise years go by in a haze and you'd give ANYTHING to be back where you are now.

 

Edit-Clonidine helps with anxiety and sleep, ask your doctor about that. It lowers blood pressure and if you're on it for a long time, you have to taper it, but it's not a narcotic and you won't suffer. If you only use for a couple of weeks, you're fine. You can't take more a day than the prescription, but it really can help. Between that and over the counter histamines, that should get you some rest, without resorting to heavy duty psych meds.

 

Good luck.

[[8d...]]

The last couple of weeks have been up and down. My doctor I am put together a plan, so I would not be self-medicating and bouncing from med to med.

 

I am now sticking to 7.5mg of Zopiclone, and doing weekly CBT. I am also trying to exercise and meditate as much as I can.

 

When this all started up, I thought I had insomnia. I didn't realize that my anxiety/OCD (and maybe some depression) fueled this.

 

But now I have severe anxiety about not being able to sleep, and also, about being dependent/hooked on the Zopiclone.

 

I want to taper off the drugs, but I have a fear that i won't sleep due to the anxiety.

 

The pdoc and my psychologist have also mentioned an SSRI could be an option for now, but I would rather not be on drugs at all if possible. I'm taking 5HTP now for 2 weeks, but no changes noticed yet.

 

Also, I suffer from daytime fatigue, anxiety, stomach issues, headaches, etc., and am not sure if this is the anxiety, or the Zopiclone doing this to me.

 

Can anyone offer some advice/suggestions?

[[Wo...]]

Also, I suffer from daytime fatigue, anxiety, stomach issues, headaches, etc., and am not sure if this is the anxiety, or the Zopiclone doing this to me.

 

Can anyone offer some advice/suggestions?

 

Most likely interdose withdrawal. I had the same symptoms while on it.

 

The zopiclone will make your sleep worse long term the longer you are on it. If you feel that anxiety is the source of your problems then an SSRI may be the best route for you. CBT and meditation are great things to practice. Sleep hygiene is critical too.

 

There are no easy ways out of this. You need to recognize the challenge, accept and embrace it. You need to view your struggles as part of the healing process. Whenever you get anxious or can't sleep just remind yourself that these "pains" are what prompt healing. Your brain will adapt to the anxiety and sleeplessness but ONLY if you don't medicate your way out of it. Just my opinion.

[[8d...]]

Also, I suffer from daytime fatigue, anxiety, stomach issues, headaches, etc., and am not sure if this is the anxiety, or the Zopiclone doing this to me.

 

Can anyone offer some advice/suggestions?

 

Most likely interdose withdrawal. I had the same symptoms while on it.

 

The zopiclone will make your sleep worse long term the longer you are on it. If you feel that anxiety is the source of your problems then an SSRI may be the best route for you. CBT and meditation are great things to practice. Sleep hygiene is critical too.

 

There are no easy ways out of this. You need to recognize the challenge, accept and embrace it. You need to view your struggles as part of the healing process. Whenever you get anxious or can't sleep just remind yourself that these "pains" are what prompt healing. Your brain will adapt to the anxiety and sleeplessness but ONLY if you don't medicate your way out of it. Just my opinion.

 

I appreciate your words as always.

 

I agree that meds are not the long term answer, and that's probably why I put so much stress on myself about taking the Zopiclone.

 

My anxiety has been more pronounced lately (as in, actually feeling the anxiety) but I feel that I'm able to better sense, understand, and deal with it. But at night, I am always worried about sleeping. I rely on the Zopiclone because I know without it, there is a very good chance I will not sleep at all, and then won't have the strength to fight the anxiety and depressed feelings in the day. It's a vicious cycle, and I don't see a way out yet.

 

I don't handle the sleeplessness well, and I'm one of those people that can go a full night without a single wink of sleep if I'm anxious. I haven't tried 2 nights in a row yet, but I've come pretty close (and then end up popping a Zopiclone).

 

I'm going to try going down to 5mg next week. Part of me thinks it might just be better to go cold turkey. But then there is that fear of not sleeping. Some people are lucky and can use Benadryl to help with these sleep, but for me, that doesn't even make a dent.

 

I've been doing a better job at being optimistic about things, but sometimes when I think about it, it seems impossible.

 

My wife tells me it's all fueled by anxiety, but I aways argue if I could just get some "natural" sleep, I'd get where I want to be faster.

 

As always, any thoughts are appreciated.

[[ba...]]

hi damien thats a beautiful name !

 

i used to eat a tomato around 1030pm that would help me sleep since it naturally has melatonin in it , i also have some 10mg nature's own melatonin capsules those are too strong to take whole for me so i cut in half i havnt taken one of those in a week

[[8d...]]

Not sure that melatonin will do the trick at this point, but it's worth a shot.

 

I just need a clear plan to work with.

 

My main concern is that if I taper down the Zopiclone, I will not sleep. I'd really like to hear from others that have been here and found a way to do it.

 

For example, if I go from 7.5mg, drop down about 10-15%, and my body still wants the full dose to sleep, what do I do?

 

My doctor suggested going one day on 7.5mg, then next day on 5mg, and keep doing that for about a week, where I'd end up just staying with the 5mg. I feel that's a pretty big drop, but figured I'd run it by you guys.

 

I want to start a tapering plan, and I want to actively update here so I feel there is some accountability while I do this.

 

Please reply with your comments.

[[Wo...]]

Not sure what your medical coverage situation is but you might look into a Vitamin D test. Low D levels have been linked to poor sleep. Do you spend much time in the sun?

[[8d...]]

Not sure what your medical coverage situation is but you might look into a Vitamin D test. Low D levels have been linked to poor sleep. Do you spend much time in the sun?

 

I work from home, and used to wake up at noon-1pm, so I probably should be out in the sun more.

 

Now that I'm doing the bed hygiene, I go to bed around 1:30am, and wake at 9:30am.

 

Should I be taking vitamin D?

[[ba...]]

theres vitamins that help with sleep vitamin D, C, and others are you familiar with trazadone ? thats a non addictive anti deperssant that is also used as a extremely good sleep aid it has other purposes such as it has male viagra effects  i cant take it because im prone to seizures and it crosses the seizure threashhold, the pharmacist said i have a 7% chance of having a seizure if i take it , i have bad luck so i dont want to risk it ! aroma therapy works worders to help sleeping around 9 pm 90 mins before bedtime i soak in a hot tub temperature bathtub of water for 20-30 miinutes, i use my treadmill to walk a mile before this , before bed AVOID light from tv , computer , our bodies adjust to slep since the caveman days if your exposed to light our body thinks its still daytime and it doesnt adjust to sleep with so much light, also avoid caffeine after 7pm i cant drink any caffine so i dont take any

if im unable to use a treadmill such as if im at the ranch my 2nd home where i dont have one i wash dishes by hand clean for awhile instead to activate in the evening , i hope this helps you *hugs*

[[Wo...]]

Not sure what your medical coverage situation is but you might look into a Vitamin D test. Low D levels have been linked to poor sleep. Do you spend much time in the sun?

 

I work from home, and used to wake up at noon-1pm, so I probably should be out in the sun more.

 

Now that I'm doing the bed hygiene, I go to bed around 1:30am, and wake at 9:30am.

 

Should I be taking vitamin D?

 

Probably. I take 7000 IU per day but I live way up north. Something in the 2-3000 IU range is more appropriate for most people but without a test it is difficult to determine dosage.

[[8d...]]

Can this be tested through a standard blood test?

 

Also, I noticed in one of your earlier posts (December) you were mentioning that the toughest part of coming off Zopiclone was the sleeplessness.

 

How did you counter it? You mentioned OTC, Remeron, and Trazadone as options to someone else.

 

I have tried Remeron, and it did not get me anywhere close to sleep. Is Trazadone similar?

 

Also, any of the allergy meds (Benadryl) don't do a thing for me.

 

I just need to find a way to combat the sleeplessness, and I'm going to officially start this taper.

[[Wo...]]

theres vitamins that help with sleep vitamin D, C, and others are you familiar with trazadone ?

 

Do you have a reference for vitamin c and sleep? Most find it stimulative and I can't find anything of value that links it to sleep.

 

Also, trazodone works on histamine receptors. Most people would be better off taking an OTC antihistamine than a prescription AD for sleep.

 

also avoid caffeine after 7pm

 

Why 7pm. Seems arbitrary. Caffeine has a half life of 6 hours. So if you drink a coffee with 150mg of caffeine at 7pm you will still have 75mg circulating in your system at 1am. 11am is my cutoff for caffeine.

 

[[Wo...]]

Can this be tested through a standard blood test?

 

Yes. But you have to request it. It isn't typically included by default on standard blood tests. There are private labs that do it for about $75 too. That is what I did.

 

Also, I noticed in one of your earlier posts (December) you were mentioning that the toughest part of coming off Zopiclone was the sleeplessness.

 

It generally is a problem for people but wasn't particularly for me. I took trazodone while I was on zopiclone but stopped both in November. I periodically use Unisom but not very often. If Remeron didn't work for you then it is unlikely trazodone would.

 

Magnesium citrate or glycinate on an empty stomach 30 minutes before bed might help. It is good for you anyway so it is certainly worth a try.