Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Kt...]]

Has anyone used the titration method for zolpidem?

 

I’m finding it too fiddly to take tiny bits off the pills so would rather try to dissolve/suspend it in liquid. I was wondering whether anyone has managed to do this and what liquid is best?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Katie

[[Li...]]

Hi Katie,

I don't know if zolpidem has the same horrible metallic taste. I have zopiclone which tastes really bad. So therefor I would never consider a titration. I would prefer cutting it in small parts.

Jeroen 

[[or...]]

I wouldn't even try dissolving it in anything. Check this out:

 

It has the following structure: Zolpidem tartrate is a white to off-white crystalline powder that is sparingly soluble in water, alcohol, and propylene glycol.

 

I'm not quite sure what sparingly means, but I sure wouldn't try it.

 

I cut bits off my pills. It worked fine. Yeah, it's fiddly, but so is preparing a liquid to taper. And no, pill shaving is not as accurate, but that didn't matter much.

 

Good luck, Kt,

 

Katz

[[Kt...]]

Thanks for your replies. I’ve found with cutting that I can’t go down in small enough increments so I’m getting side effects...

 

If I could stand the taste, do you think water titration would be theoretically possible? I don’t quite understand why no one seems to have done it with zolpidem, when so many thousands seem to have done it with benzos?

 

Thanks again

[[or...]]

Because the drug is not soluble in water. Or in alcohol, which is a way better solvent.

 

When I was tapering my zop, I first of all tried to dissolve it in alcohol (as I did my benzo)and the results were pitiful. The red coating washed off, but the pill stayed pretty much intact. Mushy, but intact. I added water as I did with my dissolved benzo, but the zop just stayed in a mushy ball. Then I crushed the pill first, and tried dissolving it . . . same thing. Lots of mushy small bits. So I decided to just dry cut small pieces off the pill. I guess I got pieces as small at 1/8 cut off.

 

So imo, you're stuck with cutting small bits off it.

 

Although I guess you could crush it and weight it, but that seems super-fiddly to me.

 

Anyhow, reducing by 1/8 of 5 mg every 2 weeks or so worked. For me the nasty s/x I put up with were no worse than my benzo w/d s/x. You say you're getting s/x from small reductions . . . don't you think that's to be expected? I haven't heard about a s/x-free taper.  Even our DLMTs from benzos gave us s/x.

 

Maybe someone will chime in with another idea, Kt.

 

Sorry you're suffering.

 

Katz

[[Kt...]]

Thanks so much for your help. So even with liquid micro tapering you still get side effects? There’s no way of reducing in such tiny amounts that you don’t get side effects?

 

I just did an experiment and crushed my zolpidem pill up and put it in water. The pills are round and white in the uk, not purple. It’s made a whitish opaque liquid with tiny microscopic particles floating in it when I hold it up to the light. My understanding from the benzo discussions was that even if it isn’t dissolved, if you shake it up it stays in suspension long enough to be evenly distributed when you take some out?

 

Any thoughts on whether that’s worth a try?

 

Thank you again

[[or...]]

So even with liquid micro tapering you still get side effects? There’s no way of reducing in such tiny amounts that you don’t get side effects?

 

I still got s/x. They were not nearly as bad as when I did cut and hold, but I still had some.

 

What you describe is similar to what people who do a water taper with benzos do. It's not terribly reliable, and I wouldn't do it, but you could sure give it a try. Why not use a bit of alcohol first (1 or 2 mls) to try to dissolve your pill. Then add water.

 

Yeah, some ppl do that. After making up the mixture they stir like crazy or shake like h**l and quick syringe out what they're going to take.

 

If you're going to try to taper that way, can you make a mixture of 1 mg of pill to 100 mls of water? That's what most of us used for tapering. What strength are your pills? I don't think there are 1 mg zops. The smallest we have here are 5 mgs.

 

Katz

[[Kt...]]

Thanks Katz. Yes that’s what I was thinking of - I’ve seen a couple of YouTube videos where they shake the benzo in water. That’s a good idea - I’ll try dissolving with alcohol first...

 

You say it’s not very reliable - is that because you can’t be sure that it’s evenly dispersed in the liquid?

 

The pills are 5mg and I was going to try diluting one pill in 100ml - only because I take them right before bed so would rather not drink too much liquid... Then I thought I’d drop by 0.5ml each time...

 

Thanks so much again

 

Katie

[[wa...]]

I cut and weighed with a jeweler's scale.

 

 

[[or...]]

You say it’s not very reliable - is that because you can’t be sure that it’s evenly dispersed in the liquid?

 

Right, Kt. I wasn't sure how much I would be getting each time.

 

Your plan sounds good! Let us know how it goes.

 

Best,

 

Katz

[[Kt...]]

Thanks so much again for your help Katz.

 

Wannabebetter, I’ve actually got a jewellers scale and have been trying that method too - but the scale seems to drift around lot so I was thinking of trying with the water taper instead...

 

Thanks again guys

[[wa...]]

Thanks so much again for your help Katz.

 

Wannabebetter, I’ve actually got a jewellers scale and have been trying that method too - but the scale seems to drift around lot so I was thinking of trying with the water taper instead...

 

Thanks again guys

 

"drift" ? 

SG57 helped me with working with the scale.

 

WBB

[[Ba...]]

Hi... question here.  Not sure if hooked on Ambien, altho think I am.

If I cut a bit, how long til I would feel a negative effect, if I feel it.  I known it is very short acting so would think I'd feel it fast-- but anyone know how long?

Like with valium they say you tend to feel it within 5 to 7 days, I believe.

Thanks.

[[al...]]

Hi... question here.  Not sure if hooked on Ambien, altho think I am.

If I cut a bit, how long til I would feel a negative effect, if I feel it.  I known it is very short acting so would think I'd feel it fast-- but anyone know how long?

Like with valium they say you tend to feel it within 5 to 7 days, I believe.

Thanks.

 

I assume that you are taking Ambien for sleep at night and not taking it during the day to feel good. You may not be "hooked" on the drug yet, although some level of insomnia may happen if you cut back or stop taking it. From my experience the first real noticeable symptom of a problem is when tolerance begins to set in and the same dose is not doing the same job. If that is where you are at then you will notice the cut-back on the first night that you try it.

 

I think that some people take Ambien regularly without upping the dose, but they experience unusual problems during the day that they may not attribute to the drug. Such problems should not be made much worse on a smaller dose since the drug's short half-life ensures very small, if any, levels in the bloodstream by mid-day either way. If tolerance has not set in yet you may have a fairly easy time getting off of Ambien. I have a friend who took it every night for years without having to increase the dose and he got off easily with just a little added insomnia.

[[Di...]]

Hi there, I’m so grateful to have found this group. I’ve been on 10 mg ambien for about 8 years. I’ve wanted to get off this drug for several years and am committed to doing that. I’ve been reading through this thread and am learning a lot that I didn’t know. The most surprising bit of info has been about the interdose withdrawal which I believe is why I feel such anxiety throughout the day. I started tapering a few days ago with terrible results. So my question as I begin this journey is, would you recommend a slow taper or cold turkey? I have access to Xanax but based on what I’ve read I don’t think that is any better of a substitute. 

[[wa...]]

Hi - I would not cold turkey.  That is very rough.  Dry cut and then, If you can - ask doc to RX lowest available dose of Ambien - then dry cut that into quarters.  Not precise but this one way to do it.  I used a jewelers scale to dry cut Lunesta  and then just jumped after a few months.  See how you feel -- step down every 10-14 days or so.  Keep reading through the thread about how others got off Ambien in a taper.

 

Sorry you found out you're one of us. 

[[Kt...]]

Hi,

 

I’ve heard that  niacin and also CBD oil can help with withdrawal symptoms when tapering off Benzos.

 

Just wondering whether anyone has tried either of these for Zolpidem tapering? I’m wary of adding another chemical into the mix that’s going to mess my brain around, but equally, it would be amazing to find something to take the edge off  the daily anxiety...

 

Katie

 

 

[[Ba...]]

Can you describe Ambien interdose feeling? If you take it at night when does it begin for you and end? Thank you I'm trying to sort out my situation still

 

[[al...]]

Can you describe Ambien interdose feeling? If you take it at night when does it begin for you and end? Thank you I'm trying to sort out my situation still

 

Inter-dose withdrawal simply refers to any withdrawal symptoms that are experienced between doses of a short half-life medication rather than after a person is completely off the drug. Anxiety, depression and of course insomnia are the most common symptoms, but all sorts of aches, pains and foggy head symptoms also occur. In the case of Ambien, it wears off real fast and you can find yourself wide awake after just a few hours of sleep. As more and more time progresses throughout the day other symptoms may ramp up. When you take another dose of Ambien at night these symptoms can back off, but you may not be aware of it while asleep. It is possible that you may only feel good while asleep when you can't enjoy the relief. As drug tolerance sets in the sleep and inter-dose symptom relief that a dose of Ambien gives you can grow shorter and shorter until you just about always feel like crap. This is why it can be hard to do a slow taper off of the drug.

[[or...]]

Ambien began to work less and less well for me until it did not work at all. It did not help me sleep. (I used other things). As my valium taper was so horrid, I don't know if I had interdose w/ds from Ambien during the day, but I sure felt like crap all day every day.

 

When I finished my valium taper, I tapered Ambien, which was just a nuisance drug for me at that time. I thought tapering would be no big deal as the drug was not doing me any good, but it was pretty awful also.

 

So . . . I would be surprised if your Ambien was NOT affecting you. You didn't ask me, but I would advise you to get rid of the valium and then taper the Ambien. And not add anything else. If you want to be drug-free, be drug-free. Life is possible without drugs.  Ditto sleep. 

 

 

Katz

[[Ba...]]

Can you describe Ambien interdose feeling? If you take it at night when does it begin for you and end? Thank you I'm trying to sort out my situation still

 

Inter-dose withdrawal simply refers to any withdrawal symptoms that are experienced between doses of a short half-life medication rather than after a person is completely off the drug. Anxiety, depression and of course insomnia are the most common symptoms, but all sorts of aches, pains and foggy head symptoms also occur. In the case of Ambien, it wears off real fast and you can find yourself wide awake after just a few hours of sleep. As more and more time progresses throughout the day other symptoms may ramp up. When you take another dose of Ambien at night these symptoms can back off, but you may not be aware of it while asleep. It is possible that you may only feel good while asleep when you can't enjoy the relief. As drug tolerance sets in the sleep and inter-dose symptom relief that a dose of Ambien gives you can grow shorter and shorter until you just about always feel like crap. This is why it can be hard to do a slow taper off of the drug.

 

Right which is why peole switch to valium to get off it, too, for long half iife.  But if you on more than one thing hard to know which makes you feel like crap.

[[Ba...]]

Ktkat,

 

I don't know about niacin and cbd.  BUT niacin is what those drs who do NAD+ therapy have in their vitamin mix... and lots of it.  However, I don't think anyone on this forum has had luck with the NAD+ (it is some infusion they give you supposedly to reduce withdrawal effects).

 

I would think it pretty harmless to try a little bit...?

[[or...]]

But if you on more than one thing hard to know which makes you feel like crap.

 

And that's why we work systematically to get off everything, not add a bit of this and a bit of that thinking that they'll be "harmless to try a little bit".

 

 

Katz

[[al...]]

Can you describe Ambien interdose feeling? If you take it at night when does it begin for you and end? Thank you I'm trying to sort out my situation still

 

Inter-dose withdrawal simply refers to any withdrawal symptoms that are experienced between doses of a short half-life medication rather than after a person is completely off the drug. Anxiety, depression and of course insomnia are the most common symptoms, but all sorts of aches, pains and foggy head symptoms also occur. In the case of Ambien, it wears off real fast and you can find yourself wide awake after just a few hours of sleep. As more and more time progresses throughout the day other symptoms may ramp up. When you take another dose of Ambien at night these symptoms can back off, but you may not be aware of it while asleep. It is possible that you may only feel good while asleep when you can't enjoy the relief. As drug tolerance sets in the sleep and inter-dose symptom relief that a dose of Ambien gives you can grow shorter and shorter until you just about always feel like crap. This is why it can be hard to do a slow taper off of the drug.

 

Right which is why peole switch to valium to get off it, too, for long half iife.  But if you on more than one thing hard to know which makes you feel like crap.

 

Yeah, I personally would not consider swapping one poison for another. I just did a rapid taper and have been off of Ambien completely for more than 4 years now. I did not have a fun time of it, but I don't hear about folks having an easy with slow tapers. My sleep is still often screwed up, but I am functioning pretty much normally during the day. My life was being swallowed up but I got it back.

[[Ba...]]

Aloha,

 

So you were on Ambien mostly, with a little Ativan?

 

What was your orig. sleep prob other than insomnia?  I ask as have some complex ones and prior to any of these meds.

 

thx