Z-Drug Support Group (Lunesta, Imovane, Zimovane, Ambien, Sonata, Zopiclone)

[[Be...]]

I think if you have good living conditions and low external stress, then you might be at a lesser risk of getting Alzheimer's.  In my case, my external stress is extreme, which is why I'm not healing.  I know I have early or middle stage Alzheimer's and it's from these pills.  I've lived alone since I took these pills and then got off them with no one helping me with anything.  I have alot of glutamate storming which leads to brain cell death, IMO.  My father got Alzheimer's in his 50's.  It runs in my family.  I'm screwed.   

[[Se...]]

Becks,

 

I am so sorry that you are taking so long to heal but you mustn't give up hope.  Getting off these poisons was one of the very best things you could have ever done for yourself.  I was reading a case study just the other month about a 90 year old woman who came off these drugs and whose cognition eventually returned.  You sound very sane and with it to me.  Difficult circumstances to be sure but you are a trooper.  Hold strong.

 

 

Ali

[[Be...]]

Thanks Ali, I sound somewhat sane on this forum, though some would disagree, but in my real life here I'm a complete mess and can hardly manage and am suffering terribly.  I've got some serious damage from these drugs. 

[[Se...]]

Becks,

 

You aren't that far behind me and I am still having some difficult patches.  I'm so sorry, I know this is a long, hard journey for those of us in protracted.  Honestly Becks, you do sound very sane to me but I know that you are not yet healed.  But you will be.  Of that I am sure.  I watched the www.cepuk.org videos not long ago and was struck by how well even those that had been in protracted for many years eventually were.

 

I wish you could find a better living situation.  Hopefully when you are a bit better.  My heart goes out to you and I am pulling for you.  You bravely reach out to help so many on these boards.  You in no way could do that if you were profoundly cognitive impaired.  The real you is there Becks.  I know it is, it shines through.  Healing happens, even this far out.  It takes its own sweet time though and that part is hard.

 

 

Ali

[[Be...]]

Thank, Ali.  It means alot to me when someone talks to me on this forum without getting mad at me.  I can type on this forum, but I can't talk in my real life and can hardly function anymore.  I used to be intelligent and was an A student in college, but now I can't do even simple things anymore without alot of struggle.  My brain is fried.  I never get relief from all the stress on me.

[[Se...]]

Becky, you intelligence shines through.  Trust me, it is still there.  I couldn't post at all for 16 months.  Not at all.  Was silent at home too, like a monk.  It got dramatically better all of a sudden.

 

Hold on.  You are stronger than you know.

 

Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way.

 

 

Ali

[[ca...]]

Down to 7.5 Zop from 11.25.

So far not too bad. Great to be back on the theraputic dose- will keep micro tappering.

Hugs

Carem

 

[[Be...]]

The connections in my brain are fried.  I used to have terrible dizziness at work the next day from the Ambien I took the night before.  I couldn't get my head to stop spinning sometimes and had to take naps all the time at work in the shower room.  Then I had a seizure at work and had to quit.  My brain melted the day I had the seizure.  I'm getting worse every day.  I have to take a nap each evening or I'll faint.  It's been that way for decades since I fried my brain on illegal drugs when I was a teen. 

[[Se...]]

Down to 7.5 Zop from 11.25.

So far not too bad. Great to be back on the theraputic dose- will keep micro tappering.

Hugs

Carem

 

Carem, this is so great.

 

You are doing so well.  Keep up the good work!

 

 

Ali

[[Se...]]

The connections in my brain are fried.  I used to have terrible dizziness at work the next day from the Ambien I took the night before.  I couldn't get my head to stop spinning sometimes and had to take naps all the time at work in the shower room.  Then I had a seizure at work and had to quit.  My brain melted the day I had the seizure.  I'm getting worse every day.  I have to take a nap each evening or I'll faint.  It's been that way for decades since I fried my brain on illegal drugs when I was a teen.

 

I'm sorry Becky.  Monica Cassani gives me real hope though, she took a long time to get really better.  If she can and she was so sick and poky drugged, I believe that you can too.

 

Just going to take a bit more time.

 

 

Ali

[[Li...]]

Hi All,

I am still sleeping without zopiclone, I guess about three weeks now. I am still not feeling good mentally, especially when I just come out of bed. A cold shower helps me to feel better. I slowly go from warm to cold, and try to shower cold for five minutes or so. Of course, I already said that before; swimming also helps a great deal, I am planning to do that later today. I guess other sports have the same effect on the mind, try it out. Tomorrow I will go the studio in Hoorn to paint portraits. That's my five cents for today. Good luck all....

[[wa...]]

Hi All,

I am still sleeping without zopiclone, I guess about three weeks now. I am still not feeling good mentally, especially when I just come out of bed. A cold shower helps me to feel better. I slowly go from warm to cold, and try to shower cold for five minutes or so. Of course, I already said that before; swimming also helps a great deal, I am planning to do that later today. I guess other sports have the same effect on the mind, try it out. Tomorrow I will go the studio in Hoorn to paint portraits. That's my five cents for today. Good luck all....

That's great -- just keep going.  3 weeks is awesome.  I'm cutting tonight.  Looking forward to not having the ritual.  WBB

[[...]]

I went to 1.5 pills of 7.5mg last night down from 2

 

No issues, slept great

[[wa...]]

I went to 1.5 pills of 7.5mg last night down from 2

 

No issues, slept great

Well done, Zuko

[[Se...]]

I went to 1.5 pills of 7.5mg last night down from 2

 

No issues, slept great

 

Yes, well done indeed.  Just don't rush this Zuko.  Let your GABA receptors and your brain catch up to the cuts.  Take some time in between cuts to stabilize.  This is not a race.  The end goal is to safely come off with the least withdrawal symptoms possible and not to be hit by a delayed reaction after jumping by rushing your taper, then reinstate due to rebound insomnia or other crushing symptoms.

 

Slow and steady wins this race.  I got away with bigger cuts at the start but I wish I had gone down all the way in smaller increments.

 

 

Ali

[[Fr...]]

Good job all!

 

Lightsaber- when did you jump?

 

I just counted and in the past 10 days I've used .50mg of Ativan 4 times! 😩 Not happy about that! But what do y'all do when you just know you're not going to get any sleep? Is there something I can take naturally? Does Ativan and Xanax both effect the Gabba receptor?

 

How long do you think it takes for the Gabba receptor to heal? I'm down to .14mg of a 1mg pill. So I'm almost done! But from cutting to .27mg to .15mg I've had two bumpy nights. Crazy how the smallest cut can rock my sleep! I'm starting to think maybe the not so good nights are about 2-3 days after I take the Ativan so maybe that is why I'm having a bad night? Dunno

 

What supplement heals the GABA? Or what can I take that won't effect it? I'm not planning on getting off this crap and onto something else but if I need a little help from something natural in the beginning that I will want to use that vs Ativan or Xanax.

 

I've been drinking camomile tea nightly. I have a supplement called Theanine Serene with Relora but haven't taken it. I also heard Valerian acts on the Gabba

[[Se...]]

Good job all!

 

Lightsaber- when did you jump?

 

I just counted and in the past 10 days I've used .50mg of Ativan 4 times! 😩 Not happy about that! But what do y'all do when you just know you're not going to get any sleep? Is there something I can take naturally? Does Ativan and Xanax both effect the Gabba receptor?

 

How long do you think it takes for the Gabba receptor to heal? I'm down to .14mg of a 1mg pill. So I'm almost done! But from cutting to .27mg to .15mg I've had two bumpy nights. Crazy how the smallest cut can rock my sleep! I'm starting to think maybe the not so good nights are about 2-3 days after I take the Ativan so maybe that is why I'm having a bad night? Dunno

 

What supplement heals the GABA? Or what can I take that won't effect it? I'm not planning on getting off this crap and onto something else but if I need a little help from something natural in the beginning that I will want to use that vs Ativan or Xanax.

 

I've been drinking camomile tea nightly. I have a supplement called Theanine Serene with Relora but haven't taken it. I also heard Valerian acts on the Gabba

 

FreeSpirit,

 

I hope you can find a path forward that does not include exposing yourself to other benzodiazepines in order to sleep.  Your GABA receptors will not heal properly as long as you take "rescue" doses of other benzodiazepines during your z-drug taper or once you are finally off the z-drug.  You are exchanging one damaging medication for another - whether it is Xanax or Ativan.  My best friend did this to some degree when she was tapering her z-drug and when she finally jumped until I was able to convey to her that she was never going to heal properly until she came off all the benzodiazepines and z-drugs and gave her GABA receptors the time and the space off these brain toxic drugs to heal.

 

Right now, there are no "pharmaceutical" methods that can heal your GABA receptors once damaged by benzos or z-drugs.  Time is our only healer unfortunately.  In Vancouver, we have a physician who has been quietly taking people off benzodiazepines and z-drugs for many years (decades), he is a world-leading physician in his field, head of the UBC Therapeutics Initiative.  His reply to his patients when they ask him about other medications that can help in their withdrawals is that "you cannot heal the damage from a pill with another pill".  He is pretty adamant that throwing another medication like antidepressants, antipsychotics or gabapentin is just adding another potentially injurious substance into the mix, one that you will likely have to taper from and not without their own side effect issues.

 

So, if there is any way you can avoid these rescue doses, please, please do so.  They are not benign.  It is just more of the same and will prolong your healing.

 

Sleepwell.ca is a wonderful website full of information and links on non-pharmaceutical ways to address insomnia.  Some of what you are experiencing is "rebound" insomnia and honestly, there is no way "through" but "through".  I did use some trazodone through my taper and afterward and it helped me but I am having to go through a meticulous year long withdrawal now in my 3rd year.  Still, Trazodone doesn't affect the GABA receptors the way your rescue doses of Xanax or Ativan do.  I would never be the person to categorically say don't use any other medications or substances for sleep in withdrawal but the use of other benzodiazepines is dancing with the devil in my humble opinion.

 

Did you read Dr. Kelly Brogan's blog post on benzodiazepine withdrawal recently?  Eye opening for sure.  She uses tryptophan with a lot of success for sleep with her withdrawal patients, along with diet, yoga (yin yoga or restorative yoga or Kundalini) and judicious non-pharmaceutical supplements including amino acids.  I heartily recommend her latest book.  Julia Ross has a protocol for tranquilizer supplements that includes some calming amino acids and GABA and she has had a high degree of success with that approach in her practice.  Trudy Scott is someone who practised under Julia for many years, she has a great interview with Dr. Brogan on her www.everywomanover29.com website.  Ultimately, getting my hormones properly balanced was key to correcting my insomnia and I really encourage anyone with sleep issues to look at having their hormones tested.  Bio-identical hormones saved my life when I was properly diagnosed with severe adrenal exhaustion/fatigue in 2010.  They helped put a solid foundation under my feet and despite the withdrawal from hell off zopiclone, I've never had to deal with depression or anxiety.  Since going on the bio-identical hormones, my moods have been rock solid.  I only wish I had known about this in my 40's, I could have spared myself so much heartbreak and suffering and I never would have ended up on the z-drugs or psych meds (never mind the 6 in-patient ECTs to get me sleeping in 2011).  My life today would have been profoundly different.

 

 

Ali

[[Fr...]]

Seeking- I was hoping you'd respond 

 

So I'm on Celexa as well. I will read upon the supplements you suggested and make sure I can take them. I currently take MinTran which is all minerals and alfalfa

 

Will look in amino acids and tryptophan. Any brands y'all recommend?

 

Is her blog post on this site?

 

 

[[Se...]]

FreeSpirit,

 

I'll look up Julia Ross' recommendations for both sleep and for tranquilizer withdrawal.  I also use magnesium (SISU brand), 5-HTP (Trophic brand) and liquid melatonin (0.4 mg, NOW brand, more is not better) plus Vitamin D (5,000 mg at night).

 

I'll be back.  Did I tell you about www.sleepwellns.ca?  It has a huge amount of resources and links for non-pharmacologic approaches to insomnia.  The thing is though that some of this is due to rebound insomnia from coming off the z-drugs and/or benzos.  And the only cure for that is time OFF the z-drugs and/or benzos.  Sleep architecture will re-consolidate over time, I promise.  But everytime you take a "rescue" dose, you are further compromising your already injured GABA receptors and sleep is going to remain elusive until they heal.  Which they won't if you keep hitting them with the tranquilizers.  There is going to be some insomnia coming off these drugs but it will not kill you.  Finding ways to minimize the insomnia and give your body the rest it needs while providing your body with the bulding blocks nutritionally to make enough neurotransmitters to sleep.  And for me, getting hormonally balanced was key.  I cannot stress that enough.  These drugs really hormonally derange you - you are never really able to drop into the deep restorative Stage 4 sleep level where hormones are synthesized while on these drugs.  So it is a double whammy.

 

 

Ali

[[Li...]]

Good job all!

 

Lightsaber- when did you jump?

 

I just counted and in the past 10 days I've used .50mg of Ativan 4 times! 😩 Not happy about that! But what do y'all do when you just know you're not going to get any sleep? Is there something I can take naturally? Does Ativan and Xanax both effect the Gabba receptor?

 

How long do you think it takes for the Gabba receptor to heal? I'm down to .14mg of a 1mg pill. So I'm almost done! But from cutting to .27mg to .15mg I've had two bumpy nights. Crazy how the smallest cut can rock my sleep! I'm starting to think maybe the not so good nights are about 2-3 days after I take the Ativan so maybe that is why I'm having a bad night? Dunno

 

What supplement heals the GABA? Or what can I take that won't effect it? I'm not planning on getting off this crap and onto something else but if I need a little help from something natural in the beginning that I will want to use that vs Ativan or Xanax.

 

I've been drinking camomile tea nightly. I have a supplement called Theanine Serene with Relora but haven't taken it. I also heard Valerian acts on the Gabba

 

I am not 100% sure, but I think I stopped around the first of July...so approx. 4 weeks now...1 week after I came back from holidays....

[[Fr...]]

Seeking- Wow Tryptophan interacts with alot of other drugs and supplements, especially those used for antidepressants (which I'm on Celexa).  It can cause too much serotonin so I guess I won't be trying that out

boo!

[[Se...]]

I know about the reservations about any supplements that may increase your risk of Serotonin Syndrome yet I do know of people who have been on SSRIs and Tryptophan both or SSRIs or SNRIs and 5-HTP.  So obviously trying things out with medical supervision is advisable if your doctor agrees and you keep a firm eye on your blood pressure and an eye out for other symptoms.  Some people are more susceptible to this than others, it may have to do with having genetic propensity to NOT breakdown neurotransmitters for instance, as in a COMT polymorphism.

 

I do promise to circle back here and post the Julia Ross protocols for you.  I'll try to get to that this weekend.

 

 

Ali

[[Fr...]]

Ugh another night of Ativan! 😩😩😩😩😩😭😭😭😭😭

[[Fr...]]

So Theanine Serene with Relora is a Supplement that is an amino acids but has Gaba in it I think.

 

Should I take it? What's y'all advice? Dr says yes but will it effect my healing

[[Lo...]]

Hi All,

I am still sleeping without zopiclone, I guess about three weeks now. I am still not feeling good mentally, especially when I just come out of bed. A cold shower helps me to feel better. I slowly go from warm to cold, and try to shower cold for five minutes or so. Of course, I already said that before; swimming also helps a great deal, I am planning to do that later today. I guess other sports have the same effect on the mind, try it out. Tomorrow I will go the studio in Hoorn to paint portraits. That's my five cents for today. Good luck all....

Hi Lightspacer, I am wondering what you mean when you say that you are not feeling good mentally? Depression or anxiety? Do you have physical symptoms related to withdrawal?

 

I am also wondering how you cut 1/8 of a zopiclone. I am just above 1/5 of a 7.5 mg Zop and it is a small piece. I use a scale and cut each night by 1% of current dose.

 

It is also amazing to me that It becomes harder and harder to taper the lower we get on the dose. I'd like to know why! You would think that some of the receptors would have upregulated by now. LL