XANAX Support Blog: If you're tapering Xanax/alprazolam, join in the discussion!

[Guest [in...]]

 

Gardener,

 

Where did you get this information?    Is this your opinion? 

 

People read these pages looking for clarity and hope.

 

Please go back a few posts. I already answered this and clarified what I meant. And I would like to point out that I never used giant, bold, scary fonts such as you have done to my words.

 

I'm done discussing this. Bye bye.

 

Thanks Gardener

 

 

[[th...]]

I am not sure if this is what was meant above but it has been shown on this site with taperers of Xanax, including myself, that it's not necessarily brain damage that occurs at the lower doses, but what happens is at the lower doses with cutting can make the brain "mad" and therefor showing much more syxs. There are several people who cut pretty easy from high doses down to around 2 mgs and then begin having trouble. I think a lot of that must have to do with the higher percentage of cuts as the dose is less. I did a dry cut all the way to the end so as I tapered down my .0625 cuts began to be a higher % each time. The brain says "whooh, what's happening!" and it begins to hurt more With each cut. That is why those lower doses are extremely hard for some people to conquer. The brain is struggling to figure out how to adapt with less and less med. The brain is injured by of the benzo usage but can recover. It just might take some white knuckling at those lower doses along with quite a while after jumping for it to heal.

 

Grinch

[Guest [in...]]

I am not sure if this is what was meant above but it has been shown on this site with taperers of Xanax, including myself, that it's not necessarily brain damage that occurs at the lower doses, but what happens is at the lower doses with cutting can make the brain "mad" and therefor showing much more syxs. There are several people who cut pretty easy from high doses down to around 2 mgs and then begin having trouble. I think a lot of that must have to do with the higher percentage of cuts as the dose is less. I did a dry cut all the way to the end so as I tapered down my .0625 cuts began to be a higher % each time. The brain says "whooh, what's happening!" and it begins to hurt more With each cut. That is why those lower doses are extremely hard for some people to conquer. The brain is struggling to figure out how to adapt with less and less med. The brain is injured by of the benzo usage but can recover. It just might take some white knuckling at those lower doses along with quite a while after jumping for it to heal.

 

Grinch

 

Thank you, Grinch

 

[[Mr...]]

I've made a jump from 20mg down to 4 in 24hours. It's not easy now but NOTHING like that first "cut". Our attitude is the key!!! There is no such thing as brain damage from benzos. Period. Our brains are deregulated but not damaged.

"Even if you take benzos for years, you haven’t permanently fried your "hardware"; it’s just that the software runs „little differently".This is incredibly hopeful, especially given what I’ve been through. It affirms the fact that I can remain the primary architect of my reality now and forever. To me, despite any lingering symptoms, this more than anything equals a full recovery."

“It is important to remember that by far the greatest majority of long-term benzodiazepine users do recover from withdrawal—given time,” writes Ashton in the supplement."

"Death Grip" Matt Samet

[Guest [in...]]

I've made a jump from 20mg down to 4 in 24hours. It's not easy now but NOTHING like that first "cut". Our attitude is the key!!! There is no such thing as brain damage from benzos. Period. Our brains are deregulated but not damaged.

"Even if you take benzos for years, you haven’t permanently fried your "hardware"; it’s just that the software runs „little differently".This is incredibly hopeful, especially given what I’ve been through. It affirms the fact that I can remain the primary architect of my reality now and forever. To me, despite any lingering symptoms, this more than anything equals a full recovery."

“It is important to remember that by far the greatest majority of long-term benzodiazepine users do recover from withdrawal—given time,” writes Ashton in the supplement."

"Death Grip" Matt Samet

 

Thank you, Mr. Anderson.

Powerful, hopeful words.

[[Ch...]]

The phrase 'brain damage' is very scary and in the case of benzodiazepine use, misleading.  It's not the withdrawal process that causes the temporary down-regulation (often referred to as 'damage', but they are one and the same).  It is the use of a benzodiazepine that down-regulates the GABA receptors, which are not only in the brain but highly concentrated in the gut as well as throughout the body in smaller concentrations.  This is why we get so many bizarre symptoms that seem to travel around and hit here and there at different times.

 

As we taper, the GABA receptors need to up-regulate as the drug is withdrawn.  This process is not complete by the end of the taper and causes symptoms to be more marked at the end of the taper when the drug is almost gone from the system.

 

This is how I understand the process and is the easiest way for me to explain it.

[Guest [in...]]

The phrase 'brain damage' is very scary and in the case of benzodiazepine use, misleading.  It's not the withdrawal process that causes the temporary down-regulation (often referred to as 'damage', but they are one and the same).  It is the use of a benzodiazepine that down-regulates the GABA receptors, which are not only in the brain but highly concentrated in the gut as well as throughout the body in smaller concentrations.  This is why we get so many bizarre symptoms that seem to travel around and hit here and there at different times.

 

As we taper, the GABA receptors need to up-regulate as the drug is withdrawn.  This process is not complete by the end of the taper and causes symptoms to be more marked at the end of the taper when the drug is almost gone from the system.

 

This is how I understand the process and is the easiest way for me to explain it.

 

Challis,

Thank you, very much, for your explanation.

[Guest [Ma...]]

Insomniac,

Just wanted to say that you are making great progress on your taper. Congratulations and praying for a smooth landing for you.

 

Warmly,

Marija

 

[Guest [in...]]

Insomniac,

Just wanted to say that you are making great progress on your taper. Congratulations and praying for a smooth landing for you.

 

Warmly,

Marija

 

Marija,

 

Thank you, so very much for your kindness and encouragement.

 

So kind of you to reach out to me.

 

I see you've been holding since June.  You're getting low on your Xanax dose.

Hope your symptoms lessen so you can move forward as smoothly as possible.

 

Hugs for you

[Guest [Ma...]]

Thank you for the hugs Insomniac!

 

Marija💗

[Guest [in...]]

Thank you for the hugs Insomniac!

 

Marija💗

 

[[Ra...]]

Hello Grapejuice and SoOverit!  Nice to see some new faces on this thread.  I'm not terribly active on the forum right now, but swung in today.  I've been tapering for about 16 months now.  Started at 3mg of Xanax.  I have to work full time, so was afraid of a cross over to valium as so many suggest.  I just could not take the chance of things getting worse.  I went through a 3 month acute phase I think due to intermittent dosing (not regular).  I dosed regular at night, but as job stress increased, my dosing during the day was not consistent.  I did not realize how important that was.  In any event, long term use of a benzo is bad news.  We all know now, but most of us did not when we started it.

 

S - L - O - W is the name of the game if you want to remain semi or fully functional enough to hold down a job.  I started at 3mg and made flat .0625mg cuts every 2 weeks without fail.  That was about 2% to start out.  At my current dose of .875mg, that's about 6%.  The stress at work is incredible, so I may need to slow things down.  The other thing I am considering is a daily microtaper.  If you have to work and taper, you may want to consider that.  I did add Seroquel to my plan December of 2013 as I was not sleeping.  I cannot function at all if I don't sleep.  Originally that's why I was taking the Xanax was to sleep, BAD idea as it does stop working and then turn on you.  I only take 75mg IR Seroquel at night.  It has really saved me.  I know many here do not advocate adding more prescription meds, but I had no choice, I had to do something to sleep so I could work as I'm the main breadwinner of our family.  Not advocating Seroquel, just stating what worked for me.  BUT slow reductions of no greater than 10% is recommended and I would recommend even much lower than that IF you need to remain functional.

 

Here's the link to the daily microtaper support thread if you're interested. 

 

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=135284.msg1848686#new

 

This can be done if done right.  The key to going slow is tapering at a slower rate than your brain is healing.  Some here believe you don't begin to heal until you are off the drug, I do not believe that and there are many successful tapers here to also do not believe that.  They believe your brain can heal as you taper at a S - l - O - W rate.  Bart I believe was one of the first to do this VERY slow taper.  When he stepped off, he was mostly healed.  I believe this can be done.  My taper has been fairly uneventful up to now and I hope it remains that way. 

 

Hugs,

 

Bunny

That gives so much hope Bunny! Your taper looks amazing! Do You have windows on the way down at such a low dose?

Hugs

Mr A

 

Hi Mr. A,

 

Yes I do have lots of windows.  As I said my taper has been fairly uneventful compared to many here.  Mornings are worst for me as they are for many.  Sometimes I wake feeling OK and then as soon as my brain engages, I feel tense and sometimes internal tremors.  That may be due to anticipatory anxiety about the day (very stressful job).  I just cut again last night and slept 7 hours straight and felt good when I got up.  But today is Saturday too and no work.  In general, I feel crappy when I get up, but once in the shower and getting ready I start to feel better and then once I'm at work, I'm so distracted, I generally feel fine when I'm at work and then coming home is good because I know I have no other decisions to make and I look forward to sleep.  My Seroquel ensures that thank goodness.

 

I hope your taper goes OK.  Please keep us posted.

 

Hugs,

 

Bunny

[[jr...]]

I am with you on the morning thing. I have to force myself out of bed. Sometimes when I first wake up, I forget that I am dependent on benzos for just a few seconds and the freedom feels so wonderful. But then reality sets back in and I take my xanax for the am dose. I usual cut my pills after breakfast so I know that is done for the day. I am retired so work is not an issue. I worked for the same company for 42 years and had plans to retire and fish and go places and just enjoy my golden years. My GP made sure none of that would ever happen when he gave me Xanax to quit smoking and kept the scripts coming for over 5 years. When I finally reached tolerance, he pushed me off to a PDOC so he did not have to deal with it. I guess it is my fault for trusting that a doctor would never do no harm. If I had only did a little research.............but i didn't so it is what it is!!!! I don't want pity, but revenge would be all right!!! I believe everything happens for a reason and hopefully I can come out of this as a better person than when I went in!!!! Keep the faith. things will work out.

[[ga...]]

I am with you on the morning thing. I have to force myself out of bed. Sometimes when I first wake up, I forget that I am dependent on benzos for just a few seconds and the freedom feels so wonderful. But then reality sets back in and I take my xanax for the am dose. I usual cut my pills after breakfast so I know that is done for the day. I am retired so work is not an issue. I worked for the same company for 42 years and had plans to retire and fish and go places and just enjoy my golden years. My GP made sure none of that would ever happen when he gave me Xanax to quit smoking and kept the scripts coming for over 5 years. When I finally reached tolerance, he pushed me off to a PDOC so he did not have to deal with it. I guess it is my fault for trusting that a doctor would never do no harm. If I had only did a little research.............but i didn't so it is what it is!!!! I don't want pity, but revenge would be all right!!! I believe everything happens for a reason and hopefully I can come out of this as a better person than when I went in!!!! Keep the faith. things will work out.

 

Ha ha! I know the feeling!

[[Ra...]]

JR, I can totally relate to that.  I'm so fortunate that my doc is letting me taper at my own rate.  I think he was at his wits end with me and my crazy acute symptoms until we tried Seroquel and it settled me down.  He may have been ready to cut me off, I don't know.  He had told me I should be seeing a Pdoc and then when I did, he would not connect with the Pdoc.  When I told him I'd stopped seeing the Pdoc, he said 'oh good, now I don't have to contact her'.  Docs are weird!

 

I think there has recently been a lot said on this site about symptoms ramping up when you get to the lower doses.  While that does happen to some, I think it should be said that just the opposite is true for some as well.  I know several members who said their symptoms got easier the lower in dose they got.  I have no explanation for that, but it does seem to be the case.  I've tapered from 3.0mg of X to .8125mg X as of today with little trouble.  I have made flat cuts of .0625mg the entire time over 18 months of tapering.  I don't know if things will get rough for me the lower I go.  If they do, I will slow it down and possibly switch to a liquid taper as much as I loath doing that.  I'm hoping that my taper will continue to be uneventful even with my flat cuts.  BUT I can say, at the first hint of increased symptoms, I WILL be slowing things down.  That acute period I went through for 3 months was enough to scare the crap out of me and I have no intention of experiencing that again.  I will do anything to avoid that.

 

I do think that S-L-O-W is much better than trying to push through symptoms.  Some have to push through symptoms for specific reasons, but for most, a much better experience will be had if you go slow.  I'm not saying I've been totally unsymptomatic, I have had symptoms, but they have been tolerable enough for me to work full time.  Not always easy, but it can be done.  And I don't consider myself to be a strong person either.  That 3 month acute period humbled me greatly.  I think if you try to speed things up because you just don't want to taper for a long time, you are asking for trouble.  Acceptance to a long taper is key.  I remember being so angry in thinking about a 2 year taper, but I'm so glad I have taken my time.  It has paid off so far.  I think if you go too fast or too big of cuts and become really symptomatic, trying to reel it back in is harder than if you'd gone slow to begin with.  Again just my observations of belonging to this forum for the last 20 months.

 

Wishing everyone a smooth taper 

 

Bunny

[[jr...]]

I think you are right. Slow is good. I will even hold at times. I am holding now because my wife has to have a heart bypass in the next week or so. We will find out Monday the exact day. I haven't told my PDOC that I am tapering but plan to when I see him in Sept. I hope he will help and encourage me but you never know about drs. Xanax is especially hard to taper because of its short half life but I don't want to do a crossover unless absolutely necessary. You never know how a crossover will go. Some can be harder than the taper. Good luck to you. Hope to see your success story some day and how you made the jump.

[[Ra...]]

JR, you  never know about those Pdocs. I've seen so many people say that they got all the scripts they wanted while their Pdocs thought they were taking as directed.  Then the told their Pdoc they were tapering and the doc tried to fast taper them, cut them off or refuse to continue to write scripts.  Do you know your Pdoc well and trust him/her?  Just something to consider.

 

I too did not want to crossover to V.  I've seen too many people have issues with the crossover.  If you can do the direct taper, I think you are better off.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

Bunny

[[Ch...]]

I agree with Bunny, unfortunately many doctors tend to try to take control of the taper rate by cutting your prescription rather ruthlessly.  I am in favor of always being completely transparent with my own doctors but when I tapered I didn't say anything until I got down to .25mg…and then I told her. 

 

Agreed also with not crossing over unless you really, really have to… I tapered from 2mg, dry cutting all the way down.  The magic cut for me was .0625mg.

[[jr...]]

I am going to agree with you both and just keep my mouth shut about tapering. what could it hurt? I don't need anything from the Pdoc but the script.If I get in trouble, I may have to updose for a short time.Thanks for the advice. I have taken it to heart and see your point exactly.

[[ga...]]

I am going to agree with you both and just keep my mouth shut about tapering. what could it hurt? I don't need anything from the Pdoc but the script.If I get in trouble, I may have to updose for a short time.Thanks for the advice. I have taken it to heart and see your point exactly.

 

I agree 100% with this!

 

 

[[ma...]]

I also agree I never said a word. Good luck to you

[[Gr...]]

Ugh, over five weeks since I cut .5mg Xanax to .25mg Xanax. I had been crossing over to Valium while dropping .25 X at a time, and that was going pretty smoothly, but this last cut I didn't add any more Valium. (My dr and I thought with 15mg Valium already in my system maybe I wouldn't feel the cut.) Well I was ok for about 2-1/2 weeks and THEN withdrawals hit. Balance issues, muscle aches, increased tinnitus and anxiety. It's so frustrating to get a delayed reaction like that. Currently I have a day here and there where I don't feel bad, then I get another wave. I want to keep cutting but I don't think I'm stable enough yet. I'm hoping to give it another 1-1/2 weeks (to get past PMS time), and then try cutting again, but this time much smaller cuts. Cut .0625 a week, then I'll be off the last of the Xanax after three weeks. It's just tough making the call when to cut when you're feeling bad, especially since you know you're not going to feel perfect regardless.

 

I don't want to add more Valium since it makes me tired, and I'm not planning to up dose the Xanax since I've already been holding for over five weeks. I figure (hope?) this far out the withdrawals aren't going to get more intense, I just need to get some longer stable periods before going forward. It's that delayed withdrawal that discourages me. I think I'm ok then surprise! Seems like most people when they cut Xanax they notice the cut pretty quickly.

[[jr...]]

Marley, you done one heck of a good job tapering off xanax. I worry about interdose sxs when I get that low.......

[[ma...]]

Thank you Jr. I just listened to my body and went from there as slow as i needed to I was scared to death but i had to get off that crap. The best advise I have got was GO SLOW AND LISTEN TO YOUR BODY. that is exactly what i did i dealt with inter dose but i would just tweek my doses and just hold until i felt i could go on.

 

Good luck to you all you can do this believe me i was a mess and i got there

[[ga...]]

Ugh, over five weeks since I cut .5mg Xanax to .25mg Xanax. I had been crossing over to Valium while dropping .25 X at a time, and that was going pretty smoothly, but this last cut I didn't add any more Valium. (My dr and I thought with 15mg Valium already in my system maybe I wouldn't feel the cut.) Well I was ok for about 2-1/2 weeks and THEN withdrawals hit. Balance issues, muscle aches, increased tinnitus and anxiety. It's so frustrating to get a delayed reaction like that. Currently I have a day here and there where I don't feel bad, then I get another wave. I want to keep cutting but I don't think I'm stable enough yet. I'm hoping to give it another 1-1/2 weeks (to get past PMS time), and then try cutting again, but this time much smaller cuts. Cut .0625 a week, then I'll be off the last of the Xanax after three weeks. It's just tough making the call when to cut when you're feeling bad, especially since you know you're not going to feel perfect regardless.

 

I don't want to add more Valium since it makes me tired, and I'm not planning to up dose the Xanax since I've already been holding for over five weeks. I figure (hope?) this far out the withdrawals aren't going to get more intense, I just need to get some longer stable periods before going forward. It's that delayed withdrawal that discourages me. I think I'm ok then surprise! Seems like most people when they cut Xanax they notice the cut pretty quickly.

 

I'm  sorry about your symptoms, Grape. I'm partially crossed between Librium and Xanax and plan to just start cutting my Xanax again. Your post was very informative. You might consider micro tapering the rest of the Xanax. Look for the microtapering support group for help with that. A very helpful bunch that saved my skin on more than one occasion!