Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[va...]]

Guys I haven't caught up but just a short update to say that after five days I had to quit tramadol due to the most horrible benzo wave I'd had in more than a year. I must say due to kindling my gaba receptors are all messed up, but I know full heartedly that this wave was induced by the tramadol because my tapering rate could in no way trigger those severe sxs. I quit last Sunday and back to paracetamol and prayer. I hope they just give me a real opiate that can be taken with benzo brain because I need something to fight this pain. I'd love to type more and I will when I have a decent day. Benzolottie I'm very scared of epidural and RFA etc but I'll have to try. Surgeon said no surgery because I have three DDDs and he says I'd feel even worse if I had surgery. I tend to believe him but still getting two more opinions. That's for my lumbar. He doesn't rule out neck surgery.

[[va...]]

Benzolottie I read your story about your brother's passing and I felt so sad for him and his family and for you. My sincere condolences. It's so sad I don't know what else to say.

[[Ma...]]

I am so sorry the tramadol didn't work for you Val.  It is so amazing we can all be so different.

Love you, good luck with your next move, keeping you in my thoughts.  It's Mothers Day here, so Happy Mothers Day to you, you are a good mother and under such hard conditions.  LY

💐💐💐💐💐💐💐.  🌹🌹🌹🌹

[[va...]]

I am so sorry the tramadol didn't work for you Val.  It is so amazing we can all be so different.

Love you, good luck with your next move, keeping you in my thoughts.  It's Mothers Day here, so Happy Mothers Day to you, you are a good mother and under such hard conditions.  LY

💐💐💐💐💐💐💐.  🌹🌹🌹🌹

 

Mary 🌺😘

[[Be...]]

Benzolottie I read your story about your brother's passing and I felt so sad for him and his family and for you. My sincere condolences. It's so sad I don't know what else to say.

 

 

Thank you, you don't need to say anything else.

 

Can the doctor who prescribed the Tramadol prescribe you an opiate? What did the surgeon suggest for your lumbar DDD? The one I consulted with suggested lifestyle changes, specifically Joint Protection Techniques which he said I could research on my own, because he said I was smart enough to probably not need an Occupational Therapist to teach me. He said surgery would be putting pieces here and there, may not work, and if everything gets bad to the point I can't function, then just get a steel rod put in, once and done.

 

For RFA, find a good, reputable, pain management clinic. They are run by Physiatrists and/or Anesthesiologists. Get referrals, try several until you find one with the right doctor. But do what you gotta do now, to get by until you can get other opinions. I was really hoping you'd get the surgery, because you sound like where my mother and brother were.

 

I

[[va...]]

Benzolottie I read your story about your brother's passing and I felt so sad for him and his family and for you. My sincere condolences. It's so sad I don't know what else to say.

 

 

Thank you, you don't need to say anything else.

 

Can the doctor who prescribed the Tramadol prescribe you an opiate? What did the surgeon suggest for your lumbar DDD? The one I consulted with suggested lifestyle changes, specifically Joint Protection Techniques which he said I could research on my own, because he said I was smart enough to probably not need an Occupational Therapist to teach me. He said surgery would be putting pieces here and there, may not work, and if everything gets bad to the point I can't function, then just get a steel rod put in, once and done.

 

For RFA, find a good, reputable, pain management clinic. They are run by Physiatrists and/or Anesthesiologists. Get referrals, try several until you find one with the right doctor. But do what you gotta do now, to get by until you can get other opinions. I was really hoping you'd get the surgery, because you sound like where my mother and brother were.

 

I

 

Thank you Benzolottie, I have ddd in three discs. He said if I get surgery I'd still be waking around with my folding stool. My gut feeling was that he's honest. He suggested the pain clinic, one Dr in particular. I'll visit a couple but first have to see two more neurosurgeons and get an EMG. I haven't heard of joint protection techniques but I'll search the internet. If you have a good link feel free to share. I try to do some abs and stretching when the pain allows. I like the youtube Chanel Bob and Brad although some exercises hurt me because I'm too injured, especially the big herniated disc. How many degenerative discs do you have down there? I'll read when I can, my neck really hurts.

[[Be...]]

 

 

Thank you Benzolottie, I have ddd in three discs. He said if I get surgery I'd still be waking around with my folding stool. My gut feeling was that he's honest. He suggested the pain clinic, one Dr in particular. I'll visit a couple but first have to see two more neurosurgeons and get an EMG. I haven't heard of joint protection techniques but I'll search the internet. If you have a good link feel free to share. I try to do some abs and stretching when the pain allows. I like the youtube Chanel Bob and Brad although some exercises hurt me because I'm too injured, especially the big herniated disc. How many degenerative discs do you have down there? I'll read when I can, my neck really hurts.

 

Ugh. EMG. Warning, they are not fun. Had that done at the pain clinic and found nerve impingement in my neck. It was affecting some of my right arm function. Found more in my back that caused the random periods of sciatica. It's been a long time since I looked up the Joint Protection Techniques, I don't think I used any particular website, just checked out various Occupational Therapy websites I found using AltaVista (Gosh, that's before Google and Bing existed), which was the go to search engine back then. I now incorporate what I learned without a second thought, it has become automatic to me. It consists of changing how you move, and using adaptive tools as needed. For example, when I'm turning, I don't twist, I instead make small steps to turn my body. This reduces wear and tear on the lower spine.

 

I have two lumbar degenerated discs, and one is partially herniated (which would cause my random bouts of sciatica). The stenosis hasn't changed, it's still a mild form. I'm hoping to keep it that way. If back problems creep up, I have an old Contour Lounge Chair I got cheap from eBay that has a Zero Gravity position. I can use that and it realigns my spine.

 

I wish you well with the upcoming doctor visits and EMG. The EMG won't effect your W/D, it's just an unpleasant experience, but it gives doctors a lot of information on how DDD is affecting nerve function.

[[va...]]

Thank you benzolottie! I already had an emg of my arms three weeks ago and it was tolerable. Hoping the legs one isn't much worse 🤞

[[va...]]

Fentanyl patches:

 

Hi everyone. I was wanting to ask if you know of fentanyl patches making BWD worse. I told my GP that I couldn't take tramadol and I'm in so much pain and he offered this. The tramadol sent me into a horrible benzo wave and I want to be a bit sure that this one doesn't do that. I saw five posts mentioning how tramadol effects bwd and none relating fentanyl patches and bwd, but I still felt safer to ask here. I know it's addictive and all that but I'm not in a position to worry about that ATM.

 

I hope everyone is making good progress in their taper and having things to live for in the meantime. I'm very depressed due to all this health nightmare but somehow I have to find a way to keep going. I can't jump off the train, I have a 15 y/o who needs me.

[[Be...]]

Fentanyl patches:

 

Hi everyone. I was wanting to ask if you know of fentanyl patches making BWD worse. I told my GP that I couldn't take tramadol and I'm in so much pain and he offered this. The tramadol sent me into a horrible benzo wave and I want to be a bit sure that this one doesn't do that. I saw five posts mentioning how tramadol effects bwd and none relating fentanyl patches and bwd, but I still felt safer to ask here. I know it's addictive and all that but I'm not in a position to worry about that ATM.

 

I hope everyone is making good progress in their taper and having things to live for in the meantime. I'm very depressed due to all this health nightmare but somehow I have to find a way to keep going. I can't jump off the train, I have a 15 y/o who needs me.

 

I wish I had an answer for that. I was on them many years ago, but I wasn't W/D from benzos. Fentanyl is very powerful. The good thing about the patches is that you get a constant dose, and you just remove and replace as scheduled. As for getting off them. My doctor switched me to the equivalent of time release morphine sulfate, and over time we reduced the dose until I reached a level that was workable. I actually wonder if time release morphine sulfate might be a better option. You take them twice a day, 12 hours apart. I did find this study which showed that morphine and fentanyl have a less than antagonistic interaction with diazepam. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2168134/ It seems to not be wise to use it if you were, say, tapering Xanax, from what I could find on the internet.

 

Since the fentanyl is slowly released, if it doesn't agree with you, you can simply remove the patch, the effects will wear off on 4 to 5 hours as the drug exits your system. Try searching the forums for people that are using any opiate/opioid while tapering. What are their experiences? Fentanyl is one of the big guns, so it doesn't surprise me you didn't find any buddies using them. Like with the Tramadol, you'll have to weigh the risks and your need for pain control. I wish I had an answer for you, but I was off opiates 5 years before I was wrongly prescribed Klonopin by a clueless doctor. Do you have a good relationship with this doctor? Do you trust his suggestion? If you feel confidant, then you could give it a try. I assume he'll start you on the lowest dose initially. Give it a day to see if it's working, it takes time to get into your system. Once it starts working, it will consistently give you constant small doses to keep pain at bay.

 

I wish you well whatever you decide. Chronic pain sucks!

[[va...]]

Thank you lottie! What I don't like is that you can't just take it sporadically as it's a patch, and then how do you wean off a patch? I don't like that but doctors decide for us.

[[va...]]

Good grief I've just read about it, it's hellish! I'd rather double my gabapentin than take that if I can help it. I won't even buy it yet.

[[Be...]]

Thank you lottie! What I don't like is that you can't just take it sporadically as it's a patch, and then how do you wean off a patch? I don't like that but doctors decide for us.

 

 

Wean off? By switching to the equivalent of another narcotic and reducing the dose gradually. Which is what I did.

[[Be...]]

Good grief I've just read about it, it's hellish! I'd rather double my gabapentin than take that if I can help it. I won't even buy it yet.

 

It's a very powerful narcotic. But if your looking for sporadic 'as needed' use, communicate that with your doctor. Just plain morphine would do. Depending on the severity of your pain, Dilaudid (which is a synthetic form of morphine), would be an option. If you need round the clock relief, time-release morphine sulfate would be a better choice over fentanyl. It comes in different strengths, and much lower than fentanyl.

[[va...]]

Good grief I've just read about it, it's hellish! I'd rather double my gabapentin than take that if I can help it. I won't even buy it yet.

 

It's a very powerful narcotic. But if your looking for sporadic 'as needed' use, communicate that with your doctor. Just plain morphine would do. Depending on the severity of your pain, Dilaudid (which is a synthetic form of morphine), would be an option. If you need round the clock relief, time-release morphine sulfate would be a better choice over fentanyl. It comes in different strengths, and much lower than fentanyl.

 

I wish my GP was as competent as you are. I can't believe he prescribed fentanyl. I see it killed prince and there are plenty of interviews on newspapers of people going through hell due to the patches. He could've started with something less extreme.

[[Be...]]

Good grief I've just read about it, it's hellish! I'd rather double my gabapentin than take that if I can help it. I won't even buy it yet.

 

It's a very powerful narcotic. But if your looking for sporadic 'as needed' use, communicate that with your doctor. Just plain morphine would do. Depending on the severity of your pain, Dilaudid (which is a synthetic form of morphine), would be an option. If you need round the clock relief, time-release morphine sulfate would be a better choice over fentanyl. It comes in different strengths, and much lower than fentanyl.

 

I wish my GP was as competent as you are. I can't believe he prescribed fentanyl. I see it killed prince and there are plenty of interviews on newspapers of people going through hell due to the patches. He could've started with something less extreme.

 

Yes, Princes death was from fentanyl. His Percocet's he was taking were bought by one of his people off the street because he ran short, and they contained fentanyl. Sad, because he had arranged to see an addiction specialist and the specialists son was on his way to Prince's house with information. But Prince got a lethal dose all at once, the patches release constant small amounts transdermally.

 

I agree that something less extreme should have been offered. Did you see this discussion elsewhere on BB? http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=124347.0;topicseen

[[va...]]

Good grief I've just read about it, it's hellish! I'd rather double my gabapentin than take that if I can help it. I won't even buy it yet.

 

It's a very powerful narcotic. But if your looking for sporadic 'as needed' use, communicate that with your doctor. Just plain morphine would do. Depending on the severity of your pain, Dilaudid (which is a synthetic form of morphine), would be an option. If you need round the clock relief, time-release morphine sulfate would be a better choice over fentanyl. It comes in different strengths, and much lower than fentanyl.

 

I wish my GP was as competent as you are. I can't believe he prescribed fentanyl. I see it killed prince and there are plenty of interviews on newspapers of people going through hell due to the patches. He could've started with something less extreme.

 

Yes, Princes death was from fentanyl. His Percocet's he was taking were bought by one of his people off the street because he ran short, and they contained fentanyl. Sad, because he had arranged to see an addiction specialist and the specialists son was on his way to Prince's house with information. But Prince got a lethal dose all at once, the patches release constant small amounts transdermally.

 

I agree that something less extreme should have been offered. Did you see this discussion elsewhere on BB? http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=124347.0;topicseen

 

Yes Lottie I saw that post. I pumped it up and then deleted my comment and now there's all this debate. I hadn't seen the answers to it, thank you. The post says tramadol is ok with bwd. It did work on the pain. I wish it didn't trigger that wave. I could think maybe it was just a coincidence but it's too much of a coincidence. The problem now is that I was tapering only a little 0.10 a month after an eternal hold, and now I'm too symptomatic to taper anything. Mostly the depressive wd symptom. Very  symptomatic. I don't know if I'll ever be able to resume my taper. Another long hold. I'm not touching those patches unless my pain gets much worse. Praying it doesn't. I think the lesser evil would be upping my gabapentin. I'll ask my psychiatrist about it. It does seem to help some and I only take it twice a day.

[[Ta...]]

I am having a strange experience tapering off D.  I'm a short time user of Benzo.  Had a horrific CT after only 2 month use of Alprazolam (xanax) for the flu.  Anyways, I was reinstated in the hospital at 20 mg of D.  I do dry cut daily microtapering using scales and a nail file.  I go down about a 1/2 mg a month and I'm headed down to 12 mg on Monday.  After I micrcut for 20 days, I usually hold for 8-9 days.  I always feel HORRIBLE when I hold.  When I start cutting again, I feel better (not great). 

 

I wonder if the hold is just the cuts catching up to me and I'm stabilizing OR does my body not like holds. 

 

I held for 3 weeks one time over Christmas thinking that I wanted to have a great holiday and I felt the worst I've felt during this taper on the 3rd week of the hold.  Thoughts??

[[Tr...]]

 

 

Hi TallGolfer,

 

Well, that's a wonderful thing imo. Perhaps your body is telling you to keep on tapering!

If I were you I 'd just keep on going.  Maybe you're one of the lucky ones...

 

Good luck!

 

Trochsetter

 

 

[[Ni...]]

Hey all, small update, I'm on 18 mg of valium now, I came from 28 mg of valium and I'm doing great.

 

Only thing is I got bitten by a tick last Sunday and felt sick the whole week, but I got a one time dose of 200 mg doxycycline and I'm now taking andrographis and astragalus for prevention of lyme.

[[Tr...]]

 

 

Hi Nikitis,

 

Wow, that's a big milestone!  Keep up the good work. You'll get there, don't you worry.

 

Ahhg, ticks. How I hate those demon creatures. Been a tick victim 6 times over the last 10 years.

 

Looks like you did the right thing  (medication). Now keep a close eye on your body for the next couple of weeks/ months.

 

Best of luck!

 

Trochsetter

 

[[Su...]]

Hi all I have horrible sxs on Ativan and I can't reduce or stabilize anymore. Wondering about successes crossing to V?

I'm planning it for tomorrow but I'm SO afraid. Every little change in my body rattles my nervous system. Please tell me you did it and it helped. Or if you know someone who did.

Please I need reassurance...

 

thank you everyone!

[[Mo...]]

Hi SuperJess,

Many have done it and been successful - I crossed over from Klonopin around 19 months ago and am doing a very slow liquid microtaper now.  Valium has been much kinder to me and it's been much easier tapering.  It sounds like you are already set on crossing over but I just wanted to warn you that for many of us, the crossover can be a little rough, in part, due to the half lives.  I also had Valium side effects that did eventually wane.  We are all different, just realize that.  I hope that it goes well for you.

[[Su...]]

Momof7babes  - thank you for responding!!! i greatly appreciate it.

 

May i ask how many weeks you took to crossover? Was it uncofmrotable the whole time? and how long did it take to stabilize once you crossed? did you use the equivalence as it says in the Ashton method? has it been easier to make cuts?  again thank you for sharing!

[[Mo...]]

Hi Jess,

My crossover was 5 weeks and was a mixed bag.  So many of the symptoms I had been dealing with got better but unfortunately, I had some new ones that did make me rethink my crossover.  It was my doctor who said that we were going to continue on with it because she believed it would get better and it did.  I had severe burning muscles and bad head pressure but it all went away.  I was blessed as I also had some buddies who had gone before me, who had also experienced these things, and they reassured me that they experienced those things too and they got better.

 

I crossed over from .375mg of Klonopin to 6.5mg of Valium, so a little under the Ashton equivalent.  And yes, it's been way easier to taper for me.  I do a liquid microtaper, using the liquid prescription. Originally, I did a combination of pills and liquid until 3 mg.  I dose 3 times per day.