Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[He...]]

Question: do any of you feel bloated, particularly after a meal? Especially after a "heavy" meal? Have shoulder, neck and/or back pain? Ringing in the ears? Then maybe you have the same problem I have: a fatty liver. Otherwise known as "gall bladder" problems. I'm in the process of resuming active liver cleansing now. Last year just after this time, I did a liver cleanse, lightened my diet, and began using fresh carrot/beet/celery juice. Check my sig for how fast my taper has gone. I just want to add that, after looking into liver congestion more thoroughly, I am sure that most of my sx are due to the clogging of my body, NOT tolerance w/d as I thought for so many years. PM me if you're curious. I hardly come here any more, but I'll check. If you want your life back, a diet change is totally worth it. All the best, HM PS I would have done monthly cleanses since starting, but had to see how my taper went. I have been thrilled and amazed at the ease.

[[po...]]

HealingMe

I have tried to research this!  I wondered if a liver cleanse would help my withdrawal.  So you think it has helped you?  I am on liquid diazepam concentrate.  I have not started a daily micro taper yet because Im trying to stabilize after a cut.  I really don't understand completely the process of diluting with ratios and percentages.  How do you do your micro taper and have you had symptoms?  I would love to know how your doing it. Did you notice the liver cleanse helped?

[[...]]

Builder - not sure how often you're on this thread- but after cutting too much, waiting, not stabilizing and then updosing, how long does it typically take to stabilize? My lag to feel sxs is 6 days but it seems stabilizing after an updose takes much longer than that. What do you think given people's experiences on here?

 

Does it takes longer/shorter to stabilize after an updose if you make the updose fairly soon after the cut, like w/in a couple wks vs updosing after trying to wait 6 wks? Or would the time from updose to stability be about the same regardless of when you updose after a cut?

 

Thank you!

[[Ki...]]

Question: do any of you feel bloated, particularly after a meal? Especially after a "heavy" meal? Have shoulder, neck and/or back pain? Ringing in the ears? Then maybe you have the same problem I have: a fatty liver. Otherwise known as "gall bladder" problems. I'm in the process of resuming active liver cleansing now. Last year just after this time, I did a liver cleanse, lightened my diet, and began using fresh carrot/beet/celery juice. Check my sig for how fast my taper has gone. I just want to add that, after looking into liver congestion more thoroughly, I am sure that most of my sx are due to the clogging of my body, NOT tolerance w/d as I thought for so many years. PM me if you're curious. I hardly come here any more, but I'll check. If you want your life back, a diet change is totally worth it. All the best, HM PS I would have done monthly cleanses since starting, but had to see how my taper went. I have been thrilled and amazed at the ease.

Definitely- especially when things are rough to begin with. If Im in a windows time I seem to be able to eat a bigger meal. If its wavy, no big meals, no food at all a few hours before bedtime. Nasty stuff, that!

[[la...]]

HELP!!!! 

 

I am already in the pits of hell so I need to just make my bed and lie in it

 

Heres where I am at

 

as of yesterday I was at 1.5mgs V  which by my scale weighs approx. .129grams total...my last cut was a 15% cut and it really blew my socks off.  so as much as I wanted to just cut .25mgs off every 2 weeks...AINT going to happen

 

I also am to shaky and unstable to be measuring and shaving for daily MT

 

so I need advice...do I cut 5 % off my mgs or my weight?

 

I can jot do this freaking math

 

1mg weighs aprrox .086   

 

yesterday I just shaved off 1mg to .082gr (3% cut)  so do I just continue cutting from the weight by percentages?

 

I apologize for not knowing all this by now but my brain is really severely burned now

 

actually DR is sending me to another city to see a better neurologist just to be sure that there is not something else going on since he never has seen anyone with as severe symptoms as me

 

so if this post is making any sense please respond

 

I have got to get off this crap...want to keep it at 5-10% cuts  every 3-4 weeks

 

yesterday was 3 weeks and have not felt at all better

 

BTWI tried a 5 month hold last year and it did nothing for me so long holds are not my friend..LOL  none of this is

 

 

[[bu...]]

HELP!!!! 

 

I am already in the pits of hell so I need to just make my bed and lie in it

 

Heres where I am at

 

as of yesterday I was at 1.5mgs V  which by my scale weighs approx. .129grams total...my last cut was a 15% cut and it really blew my socks off.  so as much as I wanted to just cut .25mgs off every 2 weeks...AINT going to happen

 

I also am to shaky and unstable to be measuring and shaving for daily MT

 

so I need advice...do I cut 5 % off my mgs or my weight?

 

I can jot do this freaking math

 

1mg weighs aprrox .086   

 

yesterday I just shaved off 1mg to .082gr (3% cut)  so do I just continue cutting from the weight by percentages?

 

I apologize for not knowing all this by now but my brain is really severely burned now

 

actually DR is sending me to another city to see a better neurologist just to be sure that there is not something else going on since he never has seen anyone with as severe symptoms as me

 

so if this post is making any sense please respond

 

I have got to get off this crap...want to keep it at 5-10% cuts  every 3-4 weeks

 

yesterday was 3 weeks and have not felt at all better

 

BTWI tried a 5 month hold last year and it did nothing for me so long holds are not my friend..LOL  none of this is

 

If you cut 5% off the weight of the tablet, you are cutting 5% of the dose (in mgs)

[[la...]]

Builder...I knew I could count on you...see I knew I was brain damaged...of course 5% is is 5% no matter where you take it from

 

 

 

UGH

 

[[Se...]]

Builder

I'm hoping you see this...

I am dosing Valium 3 times per day and gave interdose after only about 2 hours. It depends on what I eat, etc. I try to dose about 2 hours after I eat so I can limit my interactions. I've read all about duration of action, etc. I don't know what to do. But I can't keep doing what I am.

I am extremely deficient in b vitamins including B12 and thiamine - which you can't mess around with as they can cause permanent damage. But I don't know how the heck to get off this stuff. I take magnesium throughout the day. Totally a mess. Stuck at 1.3 mg liquid V (I had hoped crossing to this from K would have been in my favor for only having to dose once per day but no such luck.)

I can't walk in between doses and haven't been able to for 4 years. Ugh. Any ideas appreciated please. I need to keep my brain functioning to stay alive. And really not sure what to do. If I could find something that worked for my system and stay on it I would. Not worth it at this point. So frustrated. And help? Thanks!!!

Selah

[Guest [Fu...]]

I'm on 2.5 mg's of Klonopin which I dose 3 times daily (1 mg, 1mg and .5mg) and yesterday my psychiatrist told me to substitute the .5 evening dose for 5 mg's of V. I know that is half of what Ashton recommends and tried to explain that to him by showing him the chart but he didn't seem to understand. I also have talked to several others who do agree that they did well with a lower equivalency than 1 mg K = 20 mg V. I took the Ashton equivalent last night anyway and had a pretty terrible headache. I just don't know what to do with regards to making the crossover. I'm already so bad on the K and don't want to end up on the wrong equivalency of V although I'm inclined to believe Ashton given her obvious years of experience. Wondering what your thoughts are.

 

It should be noted that I tried a direct crossover to 30 mg's and it did not work at all but I thought maybe that would be different if I did a proper crossover.

[[Ju...]]

When I crossed over from 1.5mg K daily  to Valium, I found I had to go up on the basic equivalency chart, to .5mg K = 12mg V,

and so I started my taper at 36mg V, not 30. I'm glad my doctor allowed that, as it really gave me a couple weeks of stability, to mentally prepare myself for starting the taper. Even in Ashton's instructions, she says that the equivalency will vary from person to person. ,5mg K = 10 mg V is just a basic reference point.

I'm down to .5mg V, one dose per day, and will be jumping soon !

Hang tough, you'll get there.

-Justaman

[[...]]

I also was recommended by my pdoc to go up when I crossed. I was in 0.25 K which would be 5mg V per Ashton (or 12.5 mg Librium per Ashton). I was really suffering at 0.25K which may be why he updosed me on the crossover. So he had me cross to 20 Mg Librium which is 8mg V. Seems like a big updose but I did it suddenly (like that night I just took Librium instead of K) and the cross was totally symptom free- in fact I felt much better in a few days. Then after only 2 wks, he dropped me to 15 mg Librium (which is 6 mg V) and I had moderate sxs for 10 days but tolerable and then I was ok.

The crossing equivalency is a bit of a guessing game I think. There are different equivalency charts too. So it's not an exact thing.

[[Se...]]

Libr -

I wondered how the dosing is for you in Librium? Is it the same for you as the Klonopin? I know everybody metabolizes drugs differently but wondered how this compared.

Also I see in your signature that you tapered mag glycinate. Wondering if you could explain why you did that and if it has been helpful or not? Or if you have any resources for the need to do this.

Thank you!

Hope you are having as much of a decent day as possible!

Blessings

Selah

[Guest [Fu...]]

Justaman-

 

How did your crossover go? Was it relatively bearable/symptom free?

[[...]]

Libr -

I wondered how the dosing is for you in Librium? Is it the same for you as the Klonopin? I know everybody metabolizes drugs differently but wondered how this compared.

Also I see in your signature that you tapered mag glycinate. Wondering if you could explain why you did that and if it has been helpful or not? Or if you have any resources for the need to do this.

Thank you!

Hope you are having as much of a decent day as possible!

Blessings

Selah

Selah - I don't exactly understand your question for dosing. I dosed K once at bedtime and I dose Librium once at bedtime. Is that what you meant?

Why did I taper magnesium - bc for me, it acted just like a short acting benzo. I got acute when I cold turkeyed off it after a few wks of use and had no idea what was going on. Was put on klonopin bc of those symptoms which I now know was magnesium w/d. Had I known, I would have just reinstated Magnesium and tapered it...  I had lots of symptoms as I tapered magnesium - similar symptoms as I taper benzo.  They act in a lot of the same ways....both act on GABA receptors.  There are a lot of buddies on here w/ a similar experience...and buddies who are off benzos and not healed and I think it's bc they still use magnesium.  There is a thread on the alternative therapy board....titled "anyone get rebound from...." - you can read thru that for more info.

Yes, getting off magnesium definitely helped me and I will never touch any supplemental form of magnesium again!  There are no resources....or I wouldn't be here. Listen to your body as they say.

[[Se...]]

Thanks libr -

Yes I was wondering if the K and the L were metabolized similarly. My V dosing is horrific.

I first tried tapering Klonopin - dry-cutting. Long bad story. Used mag glycinate and then stopped the mag suddenly because I got scared about using it. Had horrific symptoms (don't cold turkey supplements!!!) and had to updose. Then switched to Valium to liquid taper. I've had all kinds of bloodwork and have been extremely low in all my nutrients, so have had to supplement critical things like B12 and vitamin B1 - and magnesium is a serious co-factor for thiamine absorption and metabolism. And my magnesium level is critically low. So I have been using mag malate - thinking the glycinate was the problem as it is the glycine which hits the receptors in a funky way.

So now the lower I go I realize I am dependent on the magnesium. But I am torn and clueless as to what is best. Some people have great luck with it. I know it blocks the calcium channels - and these are part of our collective problem as well.

Thanks for the response. I will have to look that thread up.

Really not sure how we keep the rest of our bodies alive while we cater to the benzo all the time. Very frustrating.

Blessings!

Selah

[[...]]

Selah- Idk how the drugs are metabolized but dry cutting K was a nightmare for me too. I've never taken Valium. Librium is easy bc it's a capsule w/ powder and I open it up, dump out the powder and measure my dose. I figure it's evenly distributed unlike a tablet. Some buddies crush their tablets into powder to get the same effect. Librium has a half life similar to Valium. I think Valium contains some pro-drug whereas Librium does not- a pro-drug has to be metabolized by the body into the active drug. So that's another variable. But the bottom line is that we are splitting hairs and all Bezos suck.

 

If you think you are dependent on magnesium, you'll want to taper it at some point. Yes I thought the glycine might be an issue too but for me, it was any form of magnesium that gave me the same effect and problem- even the magnesium chloride spray you put in your skin. Polenta got w/d from Epsom salt baths. Anyway, my rationale was that Mg is short acting and maybe it would be easier to get off that while I'm still on long acting Librium. So I tapered Mg *very* slowly and made a couple tiny cuts in the Librium along the way to prevent tolerance w/d- this plan was wisely suggested to me by another buddy. It worked- I'm not tolerant to Librium. I feel much better off the Mg. But it was not a symptom free taper by any means although some stretches were better than others. I was getting interdose w/d w/ Mg and started by dosing 2x/day and moved to 3x/day as I got a little lower. I stayed at 3x/day til the end. The very end was easy and I sped up the taper w/ no problems. If you want more details of my taper, PM me. Also Mg and benzos are synergistic- check out the article in WorriedDad siggy. I stopped talking abt Mg on threads other than the Mg thread bc some buddies get really upset and mean about it for some reason. Yeah, it "helps" some ppl bc it acts like a benzo.

 

As for your other nutrient deficiencies, idk what to say abt those- I didn't have any nutrient deficiencies except iron but I took care of that w/ a uterine ablation. I eat very clean and healthy and organic. You say your Mg is low- what is your level? It's easy to get Mg thru food and that doesn't have a benzo like effect so there is something different about Concentrated Mg from a supplement.

 

I hope this helps!

[[Se...]]

Libr

Thanks for the reply.

I think my lady Mg RBC was 3.8. Bottom of range is 4.2. I'm diabetic and this absolutely is hell on earth trying to keep my bloodsugars stable. Diabetics leach magnesium like crazy. I really can't win and am surprised I am alive st this point.

I know magnesium has a negative feedback look and that may possibly contribute to the issue. There's a pinned article on it somewhere.

I have also read on some of the "addiction" blogs that magnesium, zinc. And some overvthe counter cold medicine blocks BMDA receptors and ones those become unblocked while tapering, the effect of the lower dose of benzo is noticed as extreme withdrawal.

I'm sure there are multiple actions we are unaware of.

Stuck. Just stuck.

I also know that magnesium needs to be carefully balanced with calcium potassium and sodium and I wi see how all of these may play into it. As well as the fact that one person (not on benzos)can take Mag citrate and it wires them, while another can take the same thing and it. Alms then. I e seen this with many forms - they have different effects on different people.

I think Parker mentioned she used it after her taper and was able to taper off it with no ill effect.

The conflicting results are troublesome.

The prodrug portion of the Valium is most likely what is getting me into trouble, along with the other vitamins I need to keep me alive. I can't win and it's hard to tease out this info in other places.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it!

Blessings

Selah

[[...]]

Selah- I wouldn't worry too much abt the RBC Mg- no good data to show what it really means. Also I have read abt some dr in England who aggressively treats this w/ IV Mg and the levels don't go up. So I'm not convinced it means a deficiency. Mine was on the low side too but my spectracell Mg level was great so who knows. I just know I feel better off Mg and I'm not a fan of supplements in general. Idk how DM impacts all this and I'm sorry you have to deal that too. I do t think you'll find the "answer" out there bc no one really knows. And conflicting reactions to things- you don't know their whole story- what else are they taking, etc. what you do know is your own reaction. Trust it and base your decisions on that.  You're at a pretty low dose now so you are getting there!

[[Se...]]

Thanks libr

I had a spectracell done 4 years ago. I have NutrEval done every 6 mos and all my nutrients were low. B12 has just finally come up with injections. But the others like thiamine and mag have not. My extreme hopelessness is that I need my brain to function to dose my insulin all day and mag helps with that. But I can definitely feel when it wears off. It also interacts with the Valium somehow.

Selah

[[po...]]

Is there a liquid valium/diazepam thread?  or are a lot of people on this thread using the the liquid compound?  It's what Im on and Im just wondering how many people are also on it.  I posted this question on the micro tapering thread but Ill post again here.  Does anyone know if the fact that my pharmacy changed the lab that makes my liquid diazepam would cause symptoms?  Also does anyone directly taper with the liquid concentrate with out diluting with water?

[[Se...]]

Im sure any lab change could potentially change the effectiveness of your Valium especially with compounded I would think. Different lab could mean different ingredients such as generic or not.

I use the liquid Roxane Valium 5mg:5ml pediatric concentration and i use water to dilute it further to microtaper. I wonder sometimes if the liquid is tolerated differently than the pills too. I'm. Not sure.

Selah

[[Ki...]]

AAAARGH switched to Mylan from Teva. Has anyome ever had this happen? I cant switch pharmacies- in MS controlled substances cant be transferred, and my doc has left. I am not even halfway through my taper. I read mylan is like a sugar pill. If anyone has been through this can you chime in? I have enough to updose some which may be what I have to do next month. Stupid Walgreens!!

[[po...]]

Are Mylan and Teva Labs?  So there is a difference?  I know your on pills and Im on liquid but Walgreens switched my lab too and I think that could be part of my problem.

[[Va...]]

AAAARGH switched to Mylan from Teva. Has anyome ever had this happen? I cant switch pharmacies- in MS controlled substances cant be transferred, and my doc has left. I am not even halfway through my taper. I read mylan is like a sugar pill. If anyone has been through this can you chime in? I have enough to updose some which may be what I have to do next month. Stupid Walgreens!!

I've had the same issue kitty when I got my pills from Walmart. There was a definite difference in potency so I switched to another pharmacy to get the same brand every time.  I noticed it with my pain meds also. I think a lot has to do with the different fillers and binders used between companies.  --V

[[Ki...]]

It must be. I have not tried the mylan yet since I am still dealing with being thrown into a mini w/d from that not thought out plasma donation. I still have enough teva to get me doen to 5 mg I hope, then I guess I will updose when I switch over to the " crap" mylan. I asked if they could order me in another brand and hes going to get IVAX in (owned by Teva and pills look the sane so fingers crossed its better than Mylan)  but I still have 2 bottles of mylan i have to put in somewhere in this taper. I cannot find any docs near Biloxi that will even talk to me about valium. All I have now is a cardiologist