Valium/Diazepam Support Group

[[Te...]]

Question: I have been off my K for about a month now. I feel good. Someone told me to wait 3 months before I begin Val my taper, to get through acute. I asked my pdoc whether I could begin soon, but he suggested that I ask you guys what to do. He also added, "be very careful." Any thoughts? He also said that if members of BB agree that it is OK, only then will he endorse it.

Bets

Hi Benzogirld,

I'm so glad you are K free,  Its great to hear that,  I think the best way is to start Ashton method,

slow taper is the best way to go, even if is a tiny cut.  did cut and hold, now I'm doing liquid slow taper, not daily but holding and cutting.

I have great windows and some waves, but I learned how to handle. 

 

There is hope girl,    good luck

 

Hugs

 

Tex

 

:smitten: :smitten: :thumbsup:

 

 

[[be...]]

Thanks Tex and kgirl:

 

Kgirl and Tex, you know I am on 70 mg of val. What would you consider conservative? With my K, I did 5% cuts every 14 days. But Valium has a longer half life, right?

 

BTW, kgirl, I always seem to forget what Clona told me. I dunno why.

[[Kg...]]

Bets how about starting with the equivalent amount of how you were cutting the klonopin.  If it were me I would be doing a microtaper all the way down - at same rate you did the K or at least start there.  Why change what worked for you?  I don't see any need to do this because you can go just as fast on the micro taper - remember Valium to K is 20:1 so you will be cutting much more off you pill per day than you did of the Klonopin. 

 

I think you cut .01 grams out of your K in 14 days cutting 10 days out of every 14.  If you give your pill weight of the K and the pill weight of the Valium ( and how many mg the pill is)  than I think the math gurus can figure out what you should taper in gram weight off the Valium pill. 

 

If you want to do cut and hold didn't SG or others say to start at 5%?  I don't recall but I would go with their expertise if you want to go this way. 

 

I found what Clona sent to me so:

 

Using me as an example here is how I would figure out my cuts using the 2 mg of Valium I am taking this is from Clona:

 

"You are cutting off 0.0029 mg K every time you cut ((0.001 x 0.5) divided by 0.172)  (.172 is my pill weight of .5 mg of K)

 

To convert to Valium:

 

(0.0029 x 2) divided by 0.1...I am using the conversión that says that 2 mg V = 0.1 mg K

 

The result is 0.058 mg V...that is 0.058 mg V equals to 0.0029 mg K...every time you cut.

 

Now we need to convert mg V to grams of pill, valium pills:

 

(0.058 x 0.174) divided by 2 = 0.005 grams  NOTE the .174 is the average weight of my 2 mg Valium pills. 

 

So You need to cut every time 0.005 grams of pills." 

 

Bets this would keep me at same rate I am cutting the Klonopin now.  So again all I am saying is to have someone figure out for you the same rate that you cut the Klonopin  - convert it to Valium and micro taper all the way down since this rate of cutting worked for you. 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

Hi kgirl:

 

I did taper successfully off K by doing C/H until I got to .625 mg, from 6.5 mg. Then I began a MT. I have been advised by many that a MT at my dose is ill advised and to do C/H until I get to about 15 mg. Then do vodka titration. I don't want to be tapering for the next 10 years. Even my pdoc agrees with this, and my life is in his very capable hands. But I must admit, when I first saw him, titration and MT were news to him.

 

Bets

[[ph...]]

Bets,

 

You have come so far ... I wish a comfortable taper off of V for you, Donna

 

[[Kg...]]

Bets then perhaps start at 5% though I don't think micro tapers are slower than cut and hold depending upon the rate your drop per day.  As SG has said many times a micro taper can be faster than cut and hold. But this is your taper and you should be the one to decide what will work for you.

[[bu...]]

Hi kgirl:

 

I did taper successfully off K by doing C/H until I got to .625 mg, from 6.5 mg. Then I began a MT. I have been advised by many that a MT at my dose is ill advised and to do C/H until I get to about 15 mg. Then do vodka titration. I don't want to be tapering for the next 10 years. Even my pdoc agrees with this, and my life is in his very capable hands. But I must admit, when I first saw him, titration and MT were news to him.

 

Bets

  10 small cuts will always be easier then 1 big cut, regardless of your dose..

 

JMHO

[[Di...]]

Hi kgirl:

 

I did taper successfully off K by doing C/H until I got to .625 mg, from 6.5 mg. Then I began a MT. I have been advised by many that a MT at my dose is ill advised and to do C/H until I get to about 15 mg. Then do vodka titration. I don't want to be tapering for the next 10 years. Even my pdoc agrees with this, and my life is in his very capable hands. But I must admit, when I first saw him, titration and MT were news to him.

 

Bets

 

There isn't any right or wrong. It just depends on what you prefer to do. There is absolutely no reason why you can't do a daily taper at your dose. It's just that it may not be completely necessary at your dose. If I was you I would be trying a dry cut of say 0.5mg initially just to see what happens. If it turns out that's too much for you to handle, then a daily taper would be the way to go.

 

However, you might find you can cut that amount quite often, so you've really got the best of both worlds - a relatively smooth gradual taper, but without having to play around with the liquid. A 0.5mg cut from 70mg is less than a 1% cut (0.7% in fact), so chances are you will handle it quite well.

[[Ja...]]

If I am at 5mg ( I know I keep asking the same damn question) and I want to decrease .5 over the course of 30 days then would it be .016 per day decrease?

How would I actually do that?

My doc suggested I hold my 5mg dose for now until i stabilize whatever that means.

one doc said 3 mos, another 6 mos!!!!  there is no way. I am trying to get off this stuff but coming off of a cold turkey and fast taper and my cns is sensitized.

I was thinking of holding about 6 weeks and then starting a very slow taper

does that sound reasonable to everyone?

But i can't figure out the math

I want to follow you Diaz-Pam-- .5 per month but did you do that daily or weekly when you started at 5? if daily then i could cut/dry or do liquid but curious if my daily decrease is correct?

[[Di...]]

Yes, if you want to decrease 0.5mg over 30 days that will be a daily reduction of 0.016mg per day.

 

So if you are going to do a daily liquid taper, and assuming you are going to be using a total of 100ml of liquid (equalling 1mg), that will be a daily reduction of 1.6ml per day (just multiply the 0.016 x 100).

 

That’s a good reduction amount, although you might be able to go a little higher. When I was at 5mg I started out cutting around 2ml to 2.5ml per day, but I also had to do holds, so start with the 1.6ml and see how you go. It’s always best to start low and work your way up, rather than the other way around.

 

My entire taper (from October 2012) was done as a daily liquid taper. Prior to that I tried a cut and hold a few times and failed miserably each time.

 

[[...]]

I am looking for somewhere on BB for help with creating a plan for a 30 mg valium taper.  I have Ashton's recs - I am looking for something slower, of course.  Just another set of eyes.

 

I think d/c will be best, but is tbd by the person cutting.

 

Is there a forum on BB where this kind of taper might be spelled out?

Thanks

 

jgr2

[[bu...]]

Hi kgirl:

 

I did taper successfully off K by doing C/H until I got to .625 mg, from 6.5 mg. Then I began a MT. I have been advised by many that a MT at my dose is ill advised and to do C/H until I get to about 15 mg. Then do vodka titration. I don't want to be tapering for the next 10 years. Even my pdoc agrees with this, and my life is in his very capable hands. But I must admit, when I first saw him, titration and MT were news to him.

 

Bets

 

Just a reminder...a microtaper does not take any longer than a C&H.  In fact, many folks find a daily taper faster because they have fewer sxs on a daily taper.

[[ar...]]

Holding at .6mg.  I was doing awesome for awhile then BAM!!!  LOL 

 

The good news is the nasty symptoms don't last as long compared to the higher doses.

 

I wish I could jump at .5mg but I know that will be a bad idea for my body as I am super sensitive to benzos.  No freaking way that I will attempt that.

 

Lately the muscles around my eyes, nose and forehead are getting tight in the evenings and muscle spasms.  It feels like pressure and someone is pinching my nose really hard....LOL.  I was thinking about taking some Magnesium Glycinate to see if it helps with tight muscles.  Has anyone had any experience with Magnesium?

 

I am finally able to work out on a regular basis.  So far I am up to 15 minutes on the eliptical daily with no ramp up in symptoms after the work out.  I also do some mild weight training every other day.  I am slowly getting back to my pre benzo weight. 

[[ph...]]

Arcade, so happy to read your post ... gives me hope!

 

Donna

[[Al...]]

Holding at .6mg.  I was doing awesome for awhile then BAM!!!  LOL 

 

The good news is the nasty symptoms don't last as long compared to the higher doses.

 

I wish I could jump at .5mg but I know that will be a bad idea for my body as I am super sensitive to benzos.  No freaking way that I will attempt that.

 

Lately the muscles around my eyes, nose and forehead are getting tight in the evenings and muscle spasms.  It feels like pressure and someone is pinching my nose really hard....LOL.  I was thinking about taking some Magnesium Glycinate to see if it helps with tight muscles.  Has anyone had any experience with Magnesium?

 

I am finally able to work out on a regular basis.  So far I am up to 15 minutes on the eliptical daily with no ramp up in symptoms after the work out.  I also do some mild weight training every other day.  I am slowly getting back to my pre benzo weight.

 

Arcade79,

 

You sound real good! You are clearly on the home stretch and should finish this taper with flying colours.

 

 

ATU

[[ka...]]

congrats with your taper!! you are almost there.  I Love my magnesium, but ya know what works for one may not work for another. give it a try and see if it helps.  Start with low dose and build if you do well.  best of luck!! and thanks for the encouragement

[[or...]]

arcade, to answer your question about magnesium, I started taking magnesium citrate (a preparation called Natural Calm . . . dumb name, I know) to help with muscle cramps and tightness. It has worked very well. Be careful with it, though, and start low and slow. Too much can give you, um, diarrhea.

 

It may not work for you, but then again, it may.

 

Hope this helps. Oh, you can order it from Amazon.

 

And congratulations for getting down to .6 mgs. 

 

Okatz

[[ar...]]

Thank you for the Magnesium tips.  I ordered 120mg Magnesium Glycinate.  Small dose.  We'll see how it goes.

[[so...]]

Thank you for the Magnesium tips.  I ordered 120mg Magnesium Glycinate.  Small dose.  We'll see how it goes.

 

I take 400 mg daily. The glycinate form isn't supposed to cause any diarrhea or stomach upset, and it is also the one that helps the most with anxiety. I changed from the aspartate form for that reason.

 

I can't say for sure that it's helping with the WDs because there are so many things I'm taking that could also be helping, but it can't hurt!

[[so...]]

Well, I have some good news. I was able to obtain refills on my metoprolol and valium for another month, so I don't have to see my doc until mid-February. That buys me a little more time to taper. I'd still love to be off of the Ativan by the time I see him, and I'm hoping that a C&H of one week (each) for the next two (last two!) steps will work.

 

I've heard that the last two cuts are the worst though. So far, it seems like the valium, metoprolol, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, and medical marijuana are covering most of my WDs. Note that I was already on all of that my first time down though, but a reduced dose of metoprolol, so perhaps that and the valium are the biggest helpers.

 

Pretty much the worst and only symptoms im really having are pains in my head, but they're pretty tolerable and they pass quickly. No panic, no derealization, no vertigo as of yet. Any tips for these last two cuts? I am definitely nervous but also feeling a bit euphoric at the fact that I've even been able to get this low without vertigo happening. I anticipate more trouble with the future V taper than this. Right now I'm feeling extremely lucky, but I also want to make sure that I don't outright torture myself with these last two cuts.

 

Any and all advice is appreciated!

[[...]]

I'm below 3mg of Valium finally! I currently dose twice a day. Was wondering if I should switch to once a day dosing. I think I remember some people doing that once they got lower in dose. What are other people doing? Thanks!

[[Al...]]

I'm below 3mg of Valium finally! I currently dose twice a day. Was wondering if I should switch to once a day dosing. I think I remember some people doing that once they got lower in dose. What are other people doing? Thanks!

 

That's a great question as I was wondering too.

 

I remember reading that this is what Ashton says to do as well but I don't know.

 

Keen on seeing some answers to this.

 

Blessings!

 

ATU

[[Gr...]]

I'm below 3mg of Valium finally! I currently dose twice a day. Was wondering if I should switch to once a day dosing. I think I remember some people doing that once they got lower in dose. What are other people doing? Thanks!

I'm on 11mg valium and I take it all as a single dose at bedtime. It seems to work out ok for me.

[[Al...]]

Grape juice,

 

Thanks fir that,...is there anyone on lower doses who made the switch from two to one dose per day??

 

 

I will sit back and see what responses this gets.

 

 

Hope everyone is feeling OK heading into weekend.

 

 

ATU

[[or...]]

ATU, I just wanted to add my two cent's worth here.

 

When I got down to 2 mgs I switched from two doses a day to once a day. It surprised me that I didn't feel any ill effects from this, but I did it gradually. I moved my doses closer and closer together, then just combined them.

 

Given how med-sensitive I am, I thought it would be unwise to abruptly jump to one dose a day.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Okatz