new member

[[so...]]

Hi All: I would like to have some input as to the next phase of my taper:

 

I'm still converting my nightime dose of Ativan .5 over to .25 Clono....at the half and half mark, but should be crossed over in 10 days or so....

 

My question is the next stage:

 

Started taper end of Dec. (.5 morning .5 supper/ Clono, .5 Ativan bedtime)

 

I'm now at .1562 9am will drop to .125 on the 13th Clono

                .1562 5pm will drop to .125 on the 13th Clono

 

So my total daily dosage then will be .50 ( have been cutting appx. .0625 every wk to 10 days)

 

Here are my questions> should I titrate the remaining .5m and if so over what period of time?

 

I didn't switch to valium, so is it advisable to continue to Taper off the Clono?

 

Or if I dry taper should I eliminate the  day doses, and keep the .25 dosage for nightime and taper that off?

 

Once again, I have to travel to Europe at the end of May, so wondering if I can be off before then with some time to stablize before I go, or should I really slowly taper through June ending in July?

 

I'm starting to have some sleep issues now with daytime anxiety/depression, tinnitus, which is unfortunate, but I expected this as I got lower....

 

Does my rate of taper seem reasonable, or  should I slow it down towards the end?

 

Once again a ton of questions, but I need some direction!

 

Thanks

SW007

 

[[Th...]]

Hi SW,

 

It is best to try and keep some kind of dosing over the day to avoid interdosal w/d s/x. You have been able to make small dry cuts so you may want to continue with that to see how you do before deciding to titrate.

 

T2

[[so...]]

Thanks for the input T2!...

About my other questions, I realize it may be splitting hairs, but I want to do this right.

 

When you titrated, did you split your doses into 3 doses through the day? eg: morning, supper, bed?

 

Did you find things went smoother when you titrated?

 

Any other suggestions would be welcome.

 

Thanks

SW007

[[Th...]]

Thanks for the input T2!...

About my other questions, I realize it may be splitting hairs, but I want to do this right.

 

When you titrated, did you split your doses into 3 doses through the day? eg: morning, supper, bed?

 

Did you find things went smoother when you titrated?

 

Any other suggestions would be welcome.

 

Thanks

SW007

 

I dosed 3X/day and took it every 8 hours. Titrating does take away the problems of "cut and recover" so it is a smoother transition since cutting is done on a daily basis. I did not start titration until I was at .25mg and drug it out for a really long time because of the thyroid trouble I had.

 

[[so...]]

Hi: I've recently been experiencing some mid chest soreness, and numbness in my left hand upon waking at night...I went to the ER and they checked my heart and did a blood test, and everything was clear, so just wondering if anyone experienced this?

I also have had some afternoon depression which usually subsides after my supper dose?

Does depression generally LIFT eventually after withdrawal?

I've been tapering around 7 -10 days, and perhaps I should hold for a longer time 2 wks to give myself a break?

Thoughts?

SW007

[[Th...]]

Hi: I've recently been experiencing some mid chest soreness, and numbness in my left hand upon waking at night...I went to the ER and they checked my heart and did a blood test, and everything was clear, so just wondering if anyone experienced this?

I also have had some afternoon depression which usually subsides after my supper dose?

Does depression generally LIFT eventually after withdrawal?

I've been tapering around 7 -10 days, and perhaps I should hold for a longer time 2 wks to give myself a break?

Thoughts?

SW007

 

Good you had things checked out. I had chest soreness towards the end of my taper and it hurt really bad if I coughed. I had numbness but mine was around my nose. Depression did come and go during my taper but is gone now. Most find that two weeks is better.

[[so...]]

Hi T2: Thanks for you response in regards to the chest soreness...I've also been having some disorientation during the day now, and some lightheadedness.

I went to my chriroprator  today and he is using some techniques with lasers and charka points to lessen my fear of letting go of the pills....He feels that the chest soreness is anxiety from worry and fear....

 

On another note, I got about half way through my conversion from Ativan to Clono and it didn't go well...so back to the Ativan at night before bed....I've been slowly shaving  a bit off the .5 Ativan at night, which is probably not that accurate..

 

I talked to a psych. friend of mine, and he had a different equ. for Clono in his Medical book.

His ratio was .25mg Clono= 1.0mg Ativan?.... Then I called the pharmacy and the pharmacist refused to even give an equivalency  for Clono and Ativan... He said they are different acting benzos and you really can't compare potency....Hence more confusion....

 

So, I'm down to 2 doses of Clono  .125  and perphaps around .40 Ativan at night before bed... Mine is a different case, as I'm still on 2 Benzos??

 

What to do next???

 

As you mentioned it's best to keep the dosage regulated through the day to avoid W/D symptoms

 

So, that's why I started cutting down the night dose...

 

Maybe I could titrate them separately, or should I try again to convert to Clono...

 

Once again a million questions, but I'm kind of stuck now...

 

Thanks

SW007

 

 

[[Pe...]]

welcome songwriter

you found the right place

just wanted to say hi and let you know the stomach thing is sure challenging.

trying to conqueor myself.

new symptom 2 mo now.

i eat less heavy stuff like meat, listen to my body and take lots of softners 

lots of luck well really blessings not much luck going on

alll the best

for now

Pennyblue

[[Th...]]

Hi SW,

 

You might want to get your Ativan down to about .25mg and then decide what to do?

 

 

T2

[[so...]]

Hi T2 and LL: I'm experiencing some headaches and some compression in my head?....Also, another added bonus, is that I have sleep apnea, and really shouldn't be taking sedatives at all, as they make it worse, and add to the problems...I'm having concentration problems again, and the depression sets in during the day....

I'm just not sure which way to go at this stage...

T2 you mentioned cutting the Ativan down to .25....I've been shaving a small piece off the .5 (half pill) at night, however it's not that accurate....however I'm not updosing.

 

I think I mentioned this before, as I could titrate them separately

Crush  the .25 tab into 2 doses for the day

Crush the .5 Ativan and remove a small amount each night

This is creative, but I don't know if it's the right thing to do...

 

Or maybe I should try to convert the ativan back over to the Clono again?

 

My doc is not versed in this, so I'm having a hard time deciding which way to go....

 

Thanks

SW007

 

[[Th...]]

Hi SW,

 

You might want to cut the Ativan into 1/4s and cut by .125mg, hold for two weeks and then do it again until you are at .25mg. That amount is about equal to .125mg of Clono according to Dr. Ashton, so all three doses would be about equal. At that point, you can decide what to do from there.

 

T2

[[ad...]]

Hi Songwriter,

 

I definitely empathize with your situation. I"m a Klon "survivor" myself...hehe.  Tomorrow will be 7 weeks off Klon.  Took them at night only to sleep.  I've had a variety of bizarre and crazy symptoms, from the worst sickness to the silliest weirdness.  I've had severe chest pain, with no anxiety (getting off benzos affect the muscles and there are lots of muscles in the heart and chest wall...).  I've had racing heart and irregular heartbeat, with no anxiety.  I"ve had stuffed sinuses, sneezing fits, a tight throat like I'm being strangled, and here's one of the most bizarre:  sometimes as I doze off, I'll wake up in a few minutes CHOKING and coughing.  After it happened today, I realized my throat muscles were closing up or spasming or something.  And those are the BEST symptoms!!! 

 

By the way, do you have a "compounding pharmacist" in your area?  They can give you any dosage in liquid or capsule form that you desire.  Only need the Rx from your physician.  It costs, but could make tapering much easier and much simpler.  I think the Ashton Manual recommends tapering by 2%?  Others can say more about this....

 

Hang in there!  Oh, and keep up the music.  Nothing is more powerful than that, right? 

--adelia

[[so...]]

Thanks T2 for the suggestion about quartering the Ativan....Funny as I was thinking that my psych friend said that Clono was 4 times stronger than Ativan, I might not have a bad transition if I switch the Ativan over to Clono, as the half life is longer....Even doing the 1:2 ratio, would work...will give it some more thought.

I talked to a therapist friend of mine and he said to just continue tapering them separately as this has been working so far....leave it to me to be the odd one out with 2 benzos to taper!

Had a rough day yesterday, however today is much better.

I'm using this machine for the apnea which may be helping....have some depersonalization today, however I can deal with this...does anyone know when this lifts....had it for about a week now....trying to just embrace the feeling, so to speak....I've heard it's typical in Clono withdrawal....bit of sore chest, but that waxes and wains...

I am moving forward though....NOT easy, but am determined to get off these ill pills....

I saw Biography the other day, and Cher said she didn't want to record 'If I could turn back time'

I sure would, and never have even touched the pill bottle....However I guess this is one of life's lessons!!!

I also learned a thing from a doctor friend of mine, and he said that since the Benzo's are stored in the fat tissues this may help once you take your last dose, as the benzo slowly releases into the bloodstream to ease the transition off the benzos...On the other hand if you had very little body fat, you would go from your last pill without anything to buffer you... so I'm going to have a twinkie!

SW007

 

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Songwriter:

 

I am posting in response to your question about light therapy.  I live in Seattle where we don't get much sun and have used it for years. It definitely helps.  One important thing:  Don't be cheap about the light you buy.  Get the most intense one available.  My first light was much smaller than my second one and the difference in effect was profound. 

 

ntw

[[km...]]

I was also diagnosed with IBS several months ago but I now believe it's the w/d

[[so...]]

Hi Kel; how is the tinnitus going with the accupuncture? Just wanted to know if you had any mild ear pain as well during your taper.

SW007

[[ad...]]

hey Songwriter,

Twinkie sounds like a great idea!!!  Wish I could have one.  On a candida diet right now though.  ABout the fat thing....I lost 25 pounds last year from being sick on Klon.  Could barely eat.  So when I found out that Klon can concentrate in the body's fat, that made me wonder.  If I lost 25 pounds of fat, then whatever Klon in there just got intensified in the rest of it....Good Lord! 

 

The other thing is....whatever amount of it is in our fat, we have no control over when it gets released....right?  We don't know when a "dose" is going to get launched, or not.  So if no dose, more withdrawals.  And then after a dose, even more withdrawals when the next dose doesn't come.  Either way, we lose....it seems to me.  :'(

 

That's when I started looking into.....how to detox FAT.  By sweating, is what I've heard.  I tried an infrared saund at my pain clininc.  Really helped!

--adelia 

[[...]]

Hi Songwriter:

 

I am posting in response to your question about light therapy.  I live in Seattle where we don't get much sun and have used it for years. It definitely helps.  One important thing:  Don't be cheap about the light you buy.  Get the most intense one available.  My first light was much smaller than my second one and the difference in effect was profound. 

 

ntw

 

I'd second that - I have a really good one and use it religiously every morning, making it the first light I see - that's supposed to help set your diurnal clock so your sleep cycle will improve.  Does it do that for me?  How should I know?  I just do everything I can think of or find out about, and what's helping what and what's not - I have no idea.

 

I'd also ditto the sweathing thing - I use the steam room at my health club regularly, love it, so it must be doing some good, right?  Also helps my sinuses and dry skin.

 

Snow

[[ad...]]

Snow, you and I are definitely on the same "wavelength"!!! 

 

I was just thinking how I take magnesium maalate 3x/day for the muscle burning aching stuff.  Then I wondered if it was really helping.  Then thought:  HOW SHOULD I KNOW?  I've taken it the whole time I've been in misery.  But it makes me feel good to know I have SOMETHING to do, something to try, some recourse.  Other than more drugs.  I did go half a day last week without the amino acids I take for (brain GABA) relaxation etc.  By the afternoon, I could feel a big bad difference.  Besides, gotta have something to spend my money on, and order online, right?  While I'm recupping here at the hacienda. 

 

I need to go enroll in my local gym's sauna....I think I need to sweat for awhile.  You don't really sweat in an infrared sauna...well, some do, some don't.  I don't even get hot really.  Weird.  But it's supposed to be very healing.

 

Snow, how do you do the "light therapy" first thing in the morning?  Shine it into your face or something?  Sorry if that's a stupid question.  I usually just "open the blinds" -- that's about as much therapy as I can handle first thing in the morning.....  

bfn,

oldelia

[[...]]

  RE:  the light -

  Well, if you've got some rays to open the blinds to in the morning count yourself among the blessed.  I get up around 5:30 - sometimes even 5:00 - done "sleeping," and I find I do better if I just get up -  then stumble to the bathroom with my eyes closed - nothing but a nightlight on in there - brush my teeth, and sit down on my meditation platform with this light - it's probably 15" wide and maybe 20" high - special full spectrum thing, you understand - (made by veralux, called, yes, as I said, "HappyLight") - it has to be no more than a couple feet away from your face, and you have to keep your eyes open (but not look into it directly).  So I sit there for a half hour, contemplate my current morning benzo dose, write in my journal, practice meditating open-eyed like the Zen folks do, the light is on a surface next to me (it stands up like a table picture frame).  NO light turned on until after, and believe me - none is coming in the window.

 

S.

[[ad...]]

Cool Snow.  Sorry you don't have any light up there.  My sister lives in Portland so I hear all about it.  I couldn't do it, all those clouds, that's for sure.  I'm a lizard....need the sun.  Do you take extra Vitamin D? 

 

Okay, so I'm gonna check out the HappyLight.  Becuase noCal doesn't have mega light in the winter....as soon as my body gets better, I'm gonna find a warm sunny beach somewhere to recuperate!  Maybe a downright HOT sunny beach. 

 

And here again, Snow Cone, you and I are kind of on the same wavelenth.  I also stumble to my meditation cushion first thing (not a "platform", I'll have to git me one of those although in my current condition I'd probably trip), and sit for half an hour.  Used to do an hour pre-drugs.  Will again.  I often do open-eyed like the M. Buddhists do  but then I close my eyes like adelia does  just to get to the higher reaches, ya know?  I think I"ve learned everything I know from that cushion. 

 

Hey, so how do you feel after that half hour of Happy Light?  Different?  More energized? 

Since I started heavy tapering in the winter, I started using more light, being that I've been stuck at home mostly.  Turning on most of the house lights first thing.  Since I read that one can sleep better if more light during the day.  And I stopped wearing sun glasses (not that you'd need any  of those) just so my eyes would get lit up too.  Did it work?  How the heck should I know?  But at least I was doing something! 

--Hodelia

p.s.  I like the way you "contemplate" your morning dose....hehehe, that's funny!!!  And sooooo Snow!

[[so...]]

Hi kel: just wanted to see how the tinnitus was coming along....getting any better? Has the accupuncture helped?

SW007

[[so...]]

Hi LL: just wanted to check in to see how you were doing?....Haven't heard from you in a while....

I went to the Doc today, and he thinks I'm making good progress...

I'm down to .25 split twice a day on Clono and less than .40 Ativan at bedtime....

I started at 1mg Clono begginning of Jan. so was wondering if you think this is a reasonable taper...

I'm getting a lot of head pressure, derealization, and headaches.....do you think I should be slowing my taper down...

I've been at the current dose for 12 days.....

Anyhow, give me an update on how things are going.....

Kindly

SW007

[[ha...]]

Hi kel: just wanted to see how the tinnitus was coming along....getting any better? Has the accupuncture helped?

SW007

Hello, Thanks for checking in. It's going ok. The accupuncture does help.It's gets a little expensive so I can't go all the time.  We've had the flu going around here. So it seems to get worse when your head is full. Yes I did have ear pain while I tapered. That has gone away.

 

So how are things going with you? Are  you feeling alright? I hope all is well. Your friend Kel

[[so...]]

Hi Kel: Thanks for your response....I'm not too bad...I'm having this derealization for about 2 wks....like nothing is real kind of feeling, which is frustrating as I like to be in control, and I feel spaced out most of the day.

I'm down to .25 clono split in 2 during the day, and around .40 Ativan at night to sleep....

I really don't know my next move...whether to try to switch over to the Clono at bedtime then titrate the final amount, OR just keep on dry cutting....What to do???

I have an assignment in Europe end of May, and would like to get this over with before that, but may have to delay....This sure has put a crik in my life, to say the least....

Went to my Doc, and he said I'm on a miniscule amount....but hey, it was 1mg  or less of C/T off Ativan that spun me into all this...I just wished he would have put me just on one benzo and I could have reinsated and tapered from there....All hind sight now...

Anyhow, glad to hear the Accupunture is working...too bad you still have the tinnitus after 6 months....

I DO hope is lessens....

Take Care,

SW007