How many people HAVE to work while tapering

[[lk...]]

Hey Gang..............

 

E........Sounds like you had a long day. So not doing the paramedic deal right now? I would think that could be hairy on some days.

 

Intend....Just my measly opinion here but I really don't think she saw it. I could be wrong....its happened before I certainly don't think it was done purposely. Sorry to hear about your husband. How long is his recovery? 3mg is great! I bet your glad to be off the X now. I know that dealing with people and the public is not fun on days when you aren't feeling good. I feel your pain. Ya gotta put on the happy face. I think its beneficial on some level. It gets me out of my head sometimes. SOme days are definitely better then others for sure. Gotta just keep trudging the road. One day it will have the finish line.

 

Hi to everyone else lurking!!

 

Lisa

[[In...]]

Hi Lisa,

 

You're probably right about that post being missed. I'm touchy and grouchy and not hesitant to either be that way or admit it.

 

My hubby's surgery was 4/16, but the follow up is ongoing as he's on all these meds. Had another echocardiogram last month and the heart muscle is weak. So more doctors appts and another echocardiogram in December. He's been taking this HBP med that has a dry cough as a side effect. He's been coughing intermittently for a couple of months. At first we thought it was allergies as he has them and it's that time of the year. But finally we decided it wasn't, so I googled his med and cough together and it is a common side effect.

 

I literally felt like screaming with that cough. But yesterday I finally called the doctor and got a new med. And no cough.

 

Well as far as finally getting on K, I've been on it now for a few months. I'm just trying to find a comfortable micro cut to taper from. But the X withdrawals are gone, and I am glad. But K is not a good fit for X. Oh well, I'm cutting it slowly, even as I experiment so someday it will be gone. At least I hope so.

 

As far as the job, yep putting on that happy face isn't always easy. But I have to be cognitively sound also, so it's really some added big time pressure. But I think I could survive it as I've been doing it so long now. I read that you are having sleep problems. I tapered X myself although obviously not all  the way off. The withdrawals just wore me out, and I slept pretty good. It almost seems like a tradeoff in retrospect; have withdrawals that wear you out and sleep, or have easy withdrawals and stay awake.

 

Of course, I don't know if  you're having a rough time during the day or not. My absolute worst was

cog fog, so I had to use a lot of energy to focus, and it just knocked the stuffing out of me. Well, I also read you're ready (almost) to jump. You're way ahead of me with all my crosses and now a LNG taper ahead. I'll probably literally be retired before this is done.

 

Intend

[[et...]]

Lisa no Paramedic thing now. I couldn't do it anyway. today was actually worse than the 12 hour day. Had office politics all morning and had to write a freakin exam all afternoon. I would have got over 90% easily as I usually do but I'm probably in the eighties and ruined mt night getting there. I hate the whole schooling, ongoing training thing right now. I'm so damn stupid it drives me nuts.

 

Intend you're allowed to be grouchy on this thread we all have multiple reasons not just the taper. I hope your husband gets straightened out soon. I wish I could help with the K taper. I was on it and crossed over to V seamlessly. I have to be on at work too and what I used to find easy is now tiring me out too. I am fretting about starting my taper and causing my wife grief. I wish she would really get engaged and commit to helping me. I have nobody else in her category. She still thinks there is a magical treatment somewhere that nobody is telling me about. This is also tiring me out as she seems so reluctant to figure this out. This is one thing I can't accept. I feel like I'm getting thrown an anchor instead of a life preserver.

e

[[lk...]]

Intend......Oh lord....I can be touchy and grouchy in a heartbeat. No worries! Sometimes things just hit us differently then we expect.

 

So is the next echo to tell you if the muscle is strengthening? Is that even possible? I hope the next one brings some good results. Its funny that you mentioned the bp med that makes you cough. I was just having this convo with another friend about 2 weeks ago about my father in law. I had no idea that was a side effect of some. Which one was that that caused your husbands? Glad you got a new one lol I would have wanted to kill him too. I feel that way with my husbands snoring. Lord have mercy I want to smother him with a pillow!

 

So do you think you ever have stabilized on the K? Good deal with the x wd being gone. I know you had a rough go of it with that. I hope this taper is far easier on you. It gets old fast! I bet you are sick and tired of it all!

 

I have to say that cog fog was not one of my symptoms thankfully. Luckily I can do my job in my sleep most of the time and all of my formulas are written down so I don't have to try to remember them all. I struggle being the happy chipper caring about every client person that I am expected to be at work. It is super hard some days. Other days Im totally fine. My worst sx have been the horrible migraines...stomach issues...neck and shoulder pain and then of course sleep. I would have to say the sleep and headaches have dominated  the end of my taper. The tinnitus has come and gone but hasn't been super bad since mid way thru. I have not had a lot of the deep depression like some talk of. That has happened maybe 3x and it was so horrible. I feel for people that feel like that all the time. The weirdest thing is that I am completely exhausted most of the time but still can't sleep. Now I had sleep issues before X so lord knows I might not be good with it after. I mean I can't get my dose any smaller before I jump.

 

I have used melatonin 3 nights in a row and it DID improve my sleep which is totally weird. I had tried it several times with no effect at all. Now it seems to be helping. i tried to cut the 3mg pill in half last night in hopes that dosage would do the same but nope....sure didn't. So I will be back to the 3 for now. I did get some vit c to take too. Everyone says that can help. I don't think it can hurt!!

 

DOnt fret.....You will be done when you are done. You say microtapering. So thats using the liquid titration right? Hopefully you can find the dose that works. Do you do a daily cut or cut then hold? I have seen so many different ways it amazes me. Hang in there!!

 

E.....classes....OY!!!!!!!!!!! We had an educator from New york come to our spa to teach us all of these new techniques for color and highlight and yada yada yada that no one anywhere near my state would wear! I was totally dying trying to pay attention to actually see how to do it in case one of the trainees needed help. My mind is A LOT better but its still not there. It cant focus on things for long. Sorry your day was bad ...hope tomorrow is better!

 

Lisa

 

Hang in there.

Lisa

[[Co...]]

I felt that I had to withdraw from work, just after my jump.  For a few weeks, I was a total basket case. That is ironic, because I totally kept it together during my taper.  It was external circumstances, post-jump, that changed the dynamics for me.  Right now, I'm not working, but I am thinking of a return in a couple of weeks. 

 

It is just plain good luck that put me in the situation where I don't need $ right now.  I wonder how I would have done if I was desperate.  Not very well, I think.

 

Love you guys,

CC

[[ma...]]

Dear Intend

Thanks for your answer and advise of a few days ago. I have been away so did not reply but it was very useful.

Yeh, two days by the sea side and for the first time in ten months felt refreshed for some hours!

I had a conversation with the doc today- he said I am looking much better but I know I'm faking some of it.

The next step is to talk with occupational health. I work with some tricky characters and the institution is in a mess. it was hard enough before all this so still not sure if I will hack it.

I have cut to 1.5mg v, and so far its been manageable. Drove 4 hours yesterday in sweltering heat with an elderly friend who cant map read and just about kept my cool! Not sleeping much, low mood if I think about it, and muscle pains but getting accustomed to this stuff..

 

etown, it is a shame your wife can't engage with your problems, but I am sure that is really common. As you say, we can look pretty good and still be having a very tough time. I now really sympathise with all those people who have invisible illnesses. I'd like to write a book about it, if I had more neurons firing!

Good wishes to all buddies. magga x

 

 

[[et...]]

Cool sounds like you are your way up.

Magga - glad you got some relaxation. My wife is trying just not at a level that will work for me. I am putting some things together for her to learn more and we'll see where that goes. Its weird how an awesome relationship can have such pressure in situations like this. I think she is also in denial that her strong husband actually needs her.

etown

[[In...]]

I had a reply all typed up when it seemed the system went down. And it was kind of late, and I had so much left to do. I kept trying to send it but it wouldn't work, so I gave up. Annoying for me because this iPad can get temperamental to type on when I'm tired. It's me making errors I know.

 

So, Magga, thank you for answering. Like I said in an earlier reply, I'm a grouch. Hardly any pretense.

 

 

etown,

I had no idea what I was in for here when I started this fiasco. I know I must be hard to live with, but my husband is really understanding. He's put me through some "stuff" in our marriage of 40 years himself also. We really married way too young and kind of grew up together. Two older teens from very dysfunctional homes who stuck together, it now seems, for security purposes. But it's held somehow through a lot of thick and thin on both our parts.

 

I think Magga is right when she says we can look ok and it's hard for people to even recognise we're often not. Well, at home, I've solved that problem. I think I look ok, but I am really me there. Not a nut by any means, but I've really changed for real. I often am depressed from this drug, and I do not pretend I'm not. In fact I talk about how I feel a lot. And of course, he sees me so changed also. Some of that is this awful confusion that I struggle with on K; really not the same cog fog I had while tapering Xanax, but confusion about doing simple things like the bank balance. Too much to list here, but if I'm frustrated, I am. And I say it. I've explained a few things to him, but it's seeing me and my genuine lack of motivation and all this other crap he knows I'm not faking anything. It's hard to give lessons on benzo withdrawl so I guess observation is a good teacher.

 

Intend

[[In...]]

Lisa,

 

I didn't get the chance to answer you either because of the system not working.

 

Yes, I think the next echocardiogram is really to see where the heart muscle is at. It's strange, the whole thing, because he's a really big guy, in good shape, or looks that way, and is always busy with some project that requires strength, and otherwise, he's no couch potato. It's an arrhythmia which the surgery greatly improved as he was having  shortness of breath. The electrical impulses in the heart were going counterclockwise. So the surgeon actually burned scar tissue in the heart like a dam, and it forces the impulses to go back in a clockwise direction. So I'm thinking that the wrong direction part of this is what caused the weakness. You'd think I'd know all this, but there were so many doctors involved so fast, it's hard to remember all the explanations.

 

The HBP med he was on was lisinopril. Theres others in the same "class" and I've read that dry cough is a very common side effect. Every time he would start coughing, it wasn't just a cough or two. It was racking coughing that went on. So me being the true grouch I am just kept saying to get a cough drop. That always helped, but he'd wait till the coughing got extensive before getting one which drove me nuts. But I called the doctor on Tuesday and  finally and got a different medication for him. It's called losartan. So the coughing is supposed to go away gradually, much like it came on

with the lisinopril.

 

Yes, I completely stabilized on K. It's just that no two benzos are really equivalent in quantity of dose or in the receptors that they hit. Xanax is a triazolobenzodiazepine which hits more receptors than most benzos, so I've really felt that aspect since crossing. That's the X withdrawl I felt. But now it's just the difference in benzo function I feel. Plus side effects. I have a weird rash on my left ankle that is persistent. Had Keflex for it, and now I'm trying yeast infection cream. So far it's size limited thank goodness, but of course, it totally makes me mad. I've been switched around between X and K 4 times, so I know this is a K effect, but it's really stubborn. And that depression goes from that lack of motivation (mild form of depression) to feeling a little "blue" to full on clinical depression where I feel hopeless about life. But it's not constant, and ADs are actually shown to be most effective for continual clinical depression, and I don't really have that. Plus they give me nausea which I already get that on this stuff sometimes anyway. And I'm really wanting to avoid anymore "brain meds" so no ADs for me.

 

I am doing the liquid micro tapering. But I don't do it everyday. I do some holding because I get some pretty good sx just micro cutting. If I did it everyday, I'd probably be totally out of it; in fact I know I would. Ive had enough weird sx that I just can't even consider cutting every day, but every little bit helps, or so they say. So far I've been fortunate in that I've never had headaches while on or tapering X or K. I even went through a horrendous caffeine withdrawl (shocked the hell out of me how bad it was) and got no headache. But I had so many sx doing that I was sure it was benzo withdrawl. I was not even having trouble drinking coffee, but since I read so much that coffee was verboten while withdrawing, I thought I should at least cut down. Well, I survived, but wow. So I'm still drinking 16 oz every morning as long as I can.

 

I'm definitely going to hang in there. I'm getting off this awful stuff. I'm always amazed at how people are ok with klonopin. But I'm too sensitive now cause of all those dumb switches and I think being on X has made my brain just want only that. If you read up on the story behind Xanax, it's kind of a "unique" benzo. And it's really true when they say it's better to taper from your original benzo as far as I'm concerned. Anyway I'm sure this is TMI. I just can't seem to write small posts. Oh well, it's therapeutic for me I guess.

 

Intend

[[lk...]]

CC.....glad to hear you were able to take off when you needed to. Hopefully you can get back into some work if you feel it is needed and helpful!

 

E.....My husband has been supportive with this as much as he knows how. If they don't live it they don't believe it unfortunately. I know he thinks I am making some of it up or overdramatizing it. Ugh.....its annoying really. I have read so many things to him. He believes there is a wd but I think her really believes that the physical part isn't as harsh as I have told him and that all of that is "in my mind" THAT irritates me lol I try to think about it from the other side and I guess it would get old if he constantly had some ailment for months on end trying to get off a drug. I would be hesitant to believe it was THAT bad......good luck with your wife.

 

Magga....good deal on a few days away. It makes a difference!!! I have MANY days where I am faking it but I somehow feel like that helps. If I didn't have to do that I wouldn't and I think I would get further into my head then necessary. Fake it till ya make it right!

 

Intend.....SOunds like a tricky surgery for your hubs...hope the next round of tests go well.

 

You have really been round and round on the k and x...I didnt know you had crossed over more then once. How horrid. I believe its best to taper off of the original drug too. I have no basis to make that assumption other then the fact of what I have read on here and my own experiences compared to others on here. I wasn't willing to take the time to cross over then have to take more time to taper off that. That was really my thinking in the beginning and I obviously saw others had done it so why not try it right.

 

I know you will get off this crap! You are way too determined not too!

 

All have a good night. Im heading to bed to hopefully sleep so I can get up to go to work

 

Lisa

 

 

[[bo...]]

I just joined today after several weeks of lurking. I was taking around.5 mg of Ativan for a year and a half, very occasionally I would take 1mg.  Actually, I felt great the whole time, had no adverse reaction although I was probably getting some tolerance w/d because I could feel my fingers tingling.  Anyway, I began to worry that my doc would stop prescribing it so figured I should try to get off.  I actually told my GP I wanted to get off, told him I was at .5 mg daily and he told me to cut that in half to .25 about 5 weeks ago and all hell broke loose.  I had just about every symptom you could imagine although continued to go to work.  That was the main reason I joined here - to see if anybody else actually had to work.  I mean, it seems like almost everybody was able to just quit somehow. 

 

I can't do that.  My family depends on me and I need the medical insurance.

The past few weeks have been awful, but I could handle it because I had nothing really stressful to do, but in two weeks I have a two week period with a lot of stress and just don't think I could handle it.

Anyway, I went to see a pDoc and he suggested I go back up to .5 mg to stabilize and get through the tough work time and try to come up with a decent plan.  But so far I haven't wanted to give up my gains.  I will probably have to do it because I am terrified of losing my job and everything at my age (56). 

 

My plan is probably to go back up to the .5mg , and try a slower taper.  I don't know if the Doc will allow a c/o to Valium because the I/D withdrawals nail me worst. I take the whole .25 mg at night on the offchance I might get some sleep.  I've been getting a bit more the past few days at last.  Plus, I do have some periods I feel ok.

 

My primary fear is when I jump.  I'll have to take a leave of absences then I am pretty sure.

 

Oh, I don't know.  It is pretty frightening. 

[[et...]]

You will probably need to slow your taper. You should not reduce by more than 5-10% every 2 weeks. The cross over to Valium has been good for me to even out the taper even though I've had my share of distress. I am going to slow down alot as I have the same work issues as you and I definately can't do what I did in May and June :'(. Maybe consider a cross over to valium at a lower dose since you have already made some progress. Have you looked up the tapering charts on the Ashton manual?

 

Holy crap workers sunday afternoon here in Ontario and I already feel stressed about going to work tomorrow.

BBBBUUUUUMMMMMMEEEEEEERRRRRR

etown

[[et...]]

Oh forgot welcome to this thread BOBO. You're going to love it here with like minded people

etown

[[bo...]]

Yes, I'd like to try the crossover because I take the pill at night and it is fine but later in the day I get the wd.  I can't even try to discuss that with my GP because I think he thinks this should be no problem to get off.  So I went to see a pDoc for the first time.  I discussed all the Ashtom method and crossover with him but didn't want to press anything because I am new to him.  He suggested I should go back up to .5 and start from there although I am hesitant.  I think what I'd like to do is try somewhere between 3 and 5 mg of Valium and then go down more slowly, get through this time at work and plan for some time down the road when I'll jump and may have to take a few months off.

 

Actually, the impression I get is that this pDoc would just as well give me these pills for the rest of my life.  I know that's not an option although I'll admit sometimes it is tempting - I tink to myself I'm probably not going to live that long anyway, why screw up my family's life torturing myself off.  But I haven't really even given it a shot.

 

26 years ago I quit drinking (alcoholically) and smoking (over 2 packs a day) and it was nothing like just this month seemed.  I should have known better, that's all I keep telling myself.

[[et...]]

Calculate what you should be at in Valium and add some stabilize then go down slowly. what's this I'm not going to live long. We have to to tell ourstory and help others. We need you here on this thread too. Figure the Valium out add some for comfort and lets get tapering. I start again first of august after my latest setback. if you quit alcohol and smokes you have another thing to work for.

etown

[[bo...]]

That sounds like a good plan to me! I wish you were my doc - it might not be as easy to get him onboard with the crossover, but I'll try bringing in some literature.  I don't think he's an expert on this.  When I told him you were supposed to cut 10% off the tiny pills he was sort of incredulous.  But It took me three weeks to get an appointment with him, and it looks like another three till I see him again.

 

My other main worry is that they will try to push an AD on me. I really don't want to start up with that.  My GP wanted me to start on Lexapro, but I told him no, let me talk to the psych first.

 

Thanks for the welcome!

[[et...]]

One Doc tried the AD thing on me first. I answered him "why would you give an AD to someone who is NOT depressed"? Weirdly he got it!. You should also try dosing 2x daily. when I went sideways on Mother's Day someone on here told me to split my dose in 2. It smoothed things out a lot. I printed off the Ashton manual and my proposed tapering schedule and mt family GP agreed to help. Don't give him the schedule unless you have to. Most people find Ashton to be too fast at certain levels so you don't want to commit to anything with your Doc. Just show him you've done your homework and that should be enough. I had another glitch as you can see in my signature so I'll be at it for a long time yet. When you read all over I don't think AD's do squat antway. Just another thing to complicate the issue.

etown

[[lk...]]

Hey Bobo! Welcome! Sorry you are here but glad you found the site. Lots of good info on here and people who know what you are going through. It makes life a lot easier to handle when you have other people doing the same thing you are.

 

I bet you DID have some nasty effects from that .25 cut I am not sure the difference in Ativan vs Xanax (I was on xanax) I only took mine at night so I decided to keep it that way. A lot of people spread their doses out during the day to help.  I never felt like I had IW. Did you have the IW before you cut that big chunk or did that just start after you cut? Just curious. What symptoms are you feeling now? Since it has been 5 weeks maybe you don't have to go all the way back up to the .5. Usually they don't recommend an updose after 2 weeks. Just some info to put out there. I myself didn't want to C/O to valium cuz I am impatient and didn't want to take time doing that then more time getting off of that. There are varying opinions on crossing over and not. Ultimately you need to do what you need to do and what works for you and the work situation.

 

I hope whatever you decide calms things down and then you can proceed at the right pace.

 

Lisa

[[bo...]]

I'm thinking I may try to go up to .375.  I'm not sure. I'll be honest, a tried a little extra crumb (maybe 1/16 or less of a pill) today to see if I felt it.  A little tired maybe, not much. I think it is so hard to even tell how much I'm taking when I cut because the medicine isn't even distributed evenly in the pill and it is very difficult to get the measurements exact even cutting in half.  I bought a scale but screwed up on the resolution, so need to order another one. Sigh.

 

I wish my symptoms would calm down a bit.  I just want to be able to keep my job.  I'll probably wait a little more to see if I think I can handle the thing I have to do next week.  I might try splitting the dose but the dang half pill I have now is so tiny, and I have a hard enough time sleeping as it is.

 

Truthfully, when I was at the stable .5 mg I had ID withdrawals but only tingling in my fingers, and maybe some weird sensations in my throat.  I think I first felt the IW when I cut, and also after I read about them on here and realized what they were.

 

Ever since I made the cut I have anxiety, hot flashes, burning skin, some muscle aches but not too bad, tingling, and I have this benzo belly but I've had that for a while - mainly just bloated and gas.  Anxiety that makes it a little tough to talk.  Everything is worst when I wake up - which is common.  Often it calms down later in the day. Some periods are actually not that bad, typically when I am at home.  Work is okay if I am busy but if I sit without anything to do I get worse. 

 

And insomnia which is getting a little better. I actually fell asleep a few times before taking my pill, and usually sleep a few hours fitfully.  I sleep and dream but not sure I rest really.

 

I know it isn't advisable to updose, but I'm not sure still.

 

Primarily I would like to be able to work long enough to plan for my acute withdrawal.  From what I hear I very well might not be able to work through that and need to plan time off and income.

[[bo...]]

Lisa-

I notice you just jumped off.  How is that going?  Is it a lot worse than tapering?  Were you regularly taking the Xanax or just as needed?

[[bo...]]

Oh, a couple other things I forgot to mention.  The first couple weeks after the cut, I couldn't eat hardly at all, and my appetite has stayed down.  With the firming up at .5 mg, In the past two months I've lost around 25 pounds, which is good because I'm way overweight.  But one other thing - I feel completely agitated so I would expect my BP to skyrocket.  But just the opposite.  I take a slew of BP meds and could never get it down to normal, now it has been running around 110/65 which is a little frightening as well.  But my GP doesn't seem alarmed.

[[et...]]

Holy crap Lisa I need to read more. You DID jump! Awesome you did it! and worked too! You are a trojan woman! Congrats! Wow you made it! Awesome........you are the best!

etown

[[lk...]]

Thanks guys I am totally feeling nothing at this point. NOT A THING!!!!!!!!!!! No symptoms. I was at a pretty low dose so I wasn't expecting to get slammed or anything. True test will be the next 2-3 days. They were usually where I could feel my cuts. Hopefully it will be easy!!!

 

Bobo.....Like I said....jumping was not as bad as I thought. I had started to realize as I went down that my body was going to be ok. When I cut too much  I paid for it with lots of symptoms that lasted a while. Once I held for a month! Yes the last few years I took it every night to sleep and was taking ambien also which affects the same receptors...then I would take the xanax as needed for any anxiety that was bad enough. Are the ativan not scored like the xanax? The xanax were very easy to get in half then it got a little harder to break them into the smaller pieces but it was possible. Not too bad.

 

So could you tell if the added little tidbit helped or no?

 

E.....Its a good feeling! You will get there. No doubt in my mind!

 

Lisa

[[bo...]]

The pills I'm getting aren't scored - I think they are generic.  I can get a fairly accurate cut with my cutter at 1/2 pill but there is always one half a little smaller and one a little larger.  Of course, the smaller one could actually have more of the active med in it.  Beyond 1/2 I'm not sure how accurate I could be - splitting 1/8 pill into multiple doses.  IDK.

 

I can't say I felt the tidbit much one way or the other.  I actually took it to see if I would feel worse.  And since the pill half I take tonight is small, maybe it isn't much of an updose for today.

 

Well, tomorrow I have to drive one hour to work in traffic, put in a full day, then back in probably worse traffic. I've been doing it for a month now.  Actually, the driving part is not bad if I can get the aC blowing on me.  At least the drive home since I know I look forward to being home.

 

Thanks for all the help.  Sometimes these sites make me feel worse, because some folks seem so hopeless and the time lost seems so much.  I read symptms and imagine I have them all.  Except Aside from one big pill cut nothing has changed much for me in the last month except after reading all the stuff on here I have begun to worry constantly. But I know my symptoms that I do have are real, just not sure they are quite as bad as I imagine right now.

 

Anyway,  Nice to actually talk with some folks.

[[et...]]

Bobo - I have chosen a couple of threads where I got to know the people and usually hang out there. I'm careful to hang out primarily with people who I relate to. Some stories are much harder it seems so I don't want to cloud my vision with more complication. If you took everything to heart you read you would be a mess.

etown