WHAT TO EXPECT

[[we...]]

here is what ashton has to say about it:

 

Reinstatement, updosing

 

A dilemma faced by some people in the process of benzodiazepine withdrawal, or after withdrawal, is what to do if they have intolerable symptoms which do not lessen after many weeks. If they are still taking benzodiazepines, should they increase the dose? If they have already withdrawn, should they reinstate benzodiazepines and start the withdrawal process again? This is a difficult situation which, like all benzodiazepine problems, depends to some degree on the circumstances and the individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

 

Reinstatement after withdrawal? Many benzodiazepine users who find themselves in this position have withdrawn too quickly; some have undergone 'cold turkey'. They think that if they go back on benzodiazepines and start over again on a slower schedule they will be more successful. Unfortunately, things are not so simple. For reasons that are not clear, (but perhaps because the original experience of withdrawal has already sensitised the nervous system and heightened the level of anxiety) the original benzodiazepine dose often does not work the second time round. Some may find that only a higher dose partially alleviates their symptoms, and then they still have to go through a long withdrawal process again, which again may not be symptom-free.

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

Pharmacologically, neither reinstating nor updosing is really rational. If withdrawal symptoms are still present, it means that the GABA/benzodiazepine receptors have not fully recovered (see above). Further benzodiazepines cause further down-regulation, strengthen the dependence, prolong withdrawal, delay recovery and may lead to protracted symptoms. In general, the longer the person remains on benzodiazepines the more difficult it is to withdraw. On the whole, anyone who remained benzodiazepine-free, or has remained on the same dose, for a number of weeks or months would be ill-advised to start again or to increase dosage. It would be better to devote the brain to solving individual symptoms and to finding sources of advice and support. Advice about how to deal with individual symptoms is given in the Manual (Chapter 3).

 

 

[[Ch...]]

Have you had some extra stress to trigger it?

 

One thing to keep in mind is the kindling effect.  I can get the Wiki thing for you...wait, here it is:

 

Kindling due to substance withdrawal, refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative-hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the first withdrawal syndrome. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures.

 

You've come so far already, and according to the experts you ARE past the window for successful reinstatement.  It didn't work last time...

 

Lizzy's been where you are, so she knows how this goes.

 

Come on, 14 days til ...

 

Challis

[[bl...]]

Are you serious about reinstatement not working? Because if that's the case, I am going to reinstate now before it's too late. I plan to use the medication as needed in the future and cannot -- cannot -- risk the possibility of these not working when I really do need them to work.

 

Why does this happen with this kindling?

 

I am now, after 80 days of tapering, strongly considering fully reinstating my original dose to ever avoid this problem. This comment has me terrified, and not in a helpful way at all. It is freaking me out completely, actually. Again, I plan to resume occasional use at a lower dose once I've broken my addiction. I need to be able to do that or else I will not be able to continue with my career which requires regular air travel and long stints of public speaking in front of public speaking.

 

I have three lectures coming up in front of over a hundred people each.

 

So what is up with this kindling thing?

 

I can start a new thread if need be! I am just freaked out by this information and don't mean to hijack Jane's thread!!!

[Guest [ja...]]

go ahead lol i am freaked out too! i may never get me back.

[Guest [...]]

hey Blue

 

Scary indeed but I think its all relevant but it is a well known fact that this does happen.  Im just concerned in your case that you know the future of you being able to get these meds at the doses you were on is I believe and correct me if I am wrong not going to be available for you.  I would if I were you start a new thread outside of the c/t area because a lot of people do not look here unless they are from the c/t set if you get my drift.

 

Lizzyxx

[Guest [ja...]]

scary, cause if i could reinstate i would.

[[bl...]]

I will start a new thread. I've finally discussed it with my husband and he feels my doctor is way, way out of line and that I should see a new one, FWIW. He's hot under the collar about it, and he's an influential sort of person who can easily get his way, so I'm a bit more secure about my personal plans now.

 

I am holding my Xanax bottle and considering taking a full dose though and saying "Forget it" if it will cause future problems.

 

I will go start a new thread.

 

I hope you've been very, very well! (I misplaced my password during a busy time; sorry to have been silent for a bit).

[Guest [...]]

Blue you have worked so hard please do not make a rash decision just think about it before you stick some in your mouth ok.

 

Maybe it wont happen for you maybe you will never need anything ever again you could be fantastic without it.

 

I was worried about you.  I always lose the password lol.

 

Lizzyxx

[[Ch...]]

here is what ashton has to say about it:

 

Reinstatement, updosing

 

A dilemma faced by some people in the process of benzodiazepine withdrawal, or after withdrawal, is what to do if they have intolerable symptoms which do not lessen after many weeks. If they are still taking benzodiazepines, should they increase the dose? If they have already withdrawn, should they reinstate benzodiazepines and start the withdrawal process again? This is a difficult situation which, like all benzodiazepine problems, depends to some degree on the circumstances and the individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

 

Reinstatement after withdrawal? Many benzodiazepine users who find themselves in this position have withdrawn too quickly; some have undergone 'cold turkey'. They think that if they go back on benzodiazepines and start over again on a slower schedule they will be more successful. Unfortunately, things are not so simple. For reasons that are not clear, (but perhaps because the original experience of withdrawal has already sensitised the nervous system and heightened the level of anxiety) the original benzodiazepine dose often does not work the second time round. Some may find that only a higher dose partially alleviates their symptoms, and then they still have to go through a long withdrawal process again, which again may not be symptom-free.

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

Pharmacologically, neither reinstating nor updosing is really rational. If withdrawal symptoms are still present, it means that the GABA/benzodiazepine receptors have not fully recovered (see above). Further benzodiazepines cause further down-regulation, strengthen the dependence, prolong withdrawal, delay recovery and may lead to protracted symptoms. In general, the longer the person remains on benzodiazepines the more difficult it is to withdraw. On the whole, anyone who remained benzodiazepine-free, or has remained on the same dose, for a number of weeks or months would be ill-advised to start again or to increase dosage. It would be better to devote the brain to solving individual symptoms and to finding sources of advice and support. Advice about how to deal with individual symptoms is given in the Manual (Chapter 3).

 

This is another way of describing the kindling effect I posted for you on another thread, Jane.  It's really a serious issue.  Lots of forum members who are suffering badly have tried a few times to reinstate and taper after they'd been off awhile.

 

Less than two weeks and you have a home for at least a year...

 

Challis

[[bl...]]

Blue you have worked so hard please do not make a rash decision just think about it before you stick some in your mouth ok.

 

Maybe it wont happen for you maybe you will never need anything ever again you could be fantastic without it.

 

I was worried about you.  I always lose the password lol.

 

Lizzyxx

 

Thanks Lizzy. I started a new thread in the w/d forum. I will not ever be fantastic. I wasn't well to begin and can't remember being well since elementary school, with so it's very unlikely that I would be now. I am not going to do anything rash. But I am in a state of near-blind panic at this point. I feel like I'm going to suffocate to death over here.

[Guest [...]]

Blue just posted on that thread you are having massive panic over this im sure thats what it is.  I did the same thing myself yesterday when reading something.

 

Lizzyxx

[[bl...]]

Blue just posted on that thread you are having massive panic over this im sure thats what it is.  I did the same thing myself yesterday when reading something.

 

Lizzyxx

 

Sorry to hear it, Lizzy. I'm glad you're feeling better now. 

[Guest [...]]

Blue im feeling better than death but still a life half lived.

 

Lizzyxxx

[Guest [ja...]]

i feel close to death. i dont know what to do...i feel like week 2 all over again... :'(

[Guest [ja...]]

theres no exceptions? i will go back on xanax if i have to at original or higher dose...im really suffering and have no one to watch over me.

[[Ch...]]

theres no exceptions? i will go back on xanax if i have to at original or higher dose...im really suffering and have no one to watch over me.

 

You have us, Jane.  And you know how closely I'm watching you. 

Don't go under on me now, girl.  You're having ups and downs which is par for this course.

Listen to Lizzy.  She's been there and knows what's up with this.  It's the rapid withdrawal, which is why we try really hard to encourage people to taper. 

 

You'll still heal.  You're already healing even if it doesn't feel like it at the moment.

 

Tomorrow is another day.  Day 21?

 

Challis

[Guest [ja...]]

22

covered in sweat...

[[Ch...]]

22

covered in sweat...

 

Tomorrow's 23.

Covered in sweat is withdrawal. I would wet a towel and cool yourself off...

 

[[Ch...]]

It's a wave.  It will go away and a window will come again.

You've had some good ones already, my girl.  They'll be back, maybe later tonight, maybe tomorrow.

But they'll be back.

[Guest [ja...]]

so theres NO exceptions at all? Can anyone that has speak up...im dying here... :'(

[[ce...]]

22

covered in sweat...

 

Tomorrow's 23.

Covered in sweat is withdrawal. I would wet a towel and cool yourself off...

I have to agree with Challis. Of course it's ultimately your decision, but if it were me I wouldn't take anymore.  I'm sure others will have other opinons about this, but 22 days off is a great start.  If you choose to reinstate you'd most likely be in for a longer taper with maybe even more difficult symptoms.  Wouldn't be worth the risk I think. 

 

Sorry you're having such a rough time right now Janedoe.    :'(

 

Hugs,

Cedar

[Guest [ja...]]

just wanted to say sorry to every one. having a tough time...feel free to drop in at my blog or one of 1000 in the C/T rapid section

 

 

[[...]]

Jane,  you just stopped the phenobarb on the 11th.  You are probably having a little withdrawal from that barbiturate.  It is not as severe as benzo withdrawal, but the combo is probably making you feel pretty sketchy right now.

Are you still going to rehab in a couple of weeks?  If you can, hang on because there will be no guarantee that going on xanax, unless its a huge dose, will help.  You will be starting at step one, once again.

 

You have come so far.  Most of us have felt the symptoms you are having right now, having tapered benzos  or cold turkeyed them.  Hang on girl, this is the rough part and we are here for you....

Love, Sky

[Guest [...]]

Jane

 

Seriously i felt like i was going to die and was screaming in a heap on the bed coming off this stuff you know that i have told you many a time.  Go find my rapid insane hospital taper blog and read that it gives a day by day description of what I went through.  It was the worst thing imaginable Jane no person should have to suffer like that but you know what Im not great but im loads better the first few weeks are hell.  Now im entering week 5 and well recovering.

 

i would not lie to you.  Just look at what you have done amazing so far.  Dont throw it down the drain for something that may not work.

 

Lizzyxx

[Guest [ja...]]

oh thank you guys so much...i am probably coming off the pheno too...im just really depressed i cant be my cheerful self right now. so many sxs's just booming on me i dont see any light yet...