Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[je...]]

She thinks it would be harder to get off. I have only been on Ativan for 5 months so I am hoping for a smooth transition. I have read a lot about it and they say make sure your dose is equal. I am hoping after I stabalize on Xanax I will be able to cut it down more successfully.

[[mr...]]

She thinks it would be harder to get off. I have only been on Ativan for 5 months so I am hoping for a smooth transition. I have read a lot about it and they say make sure your dose is equal. I am hoping after I stabalize on Xanax I will be able to cut it down more successfully.

Xanax is a short acting benzo.

Cross over is normally done using Valium because it can last up to 20 hrs.

It helps with interdose withdawals.

 

[[Ma...]]

Jenn,

 

All I can really say is that I was switched from Klonopin back to Ativan.  Some people on this board were shocked at that because ativan is shorter acting.  The point of my doc doing that is because I was used to ativan, had been on it a long time before klonopin and klonopin was messing me up really bad.  It was extremely difficult to transistion back to ativan, for me.  But I am glad I did.  Interdose withdrawal has not been a problem for me so far.

 

All of these drugs are hard to get off.

[[An...]]

I am holding my last cut of. 0625 mgs for over 6 weeks now, trying to get stable.

But it seems that as I continue to hold, new symptoms cycle in and out. I also have depression with this cut, and are crying buckets.

My BP has become unstable too.

The back of my head where most symptoms seem to congregate, has a sensation that sounds like sizzling  :'(

I wonder if holding for too long works for some people, but is problematic for others.

Any thoughts?

Wishing healing thoughts to everyone.

Love, Anu

[[La...]]

Hi Cedartree:

 

I have a couple of questions for you about the "possible taper" you posted upthread. First, I should say that I have been generally following the strategy in your possible ativan taper and have had pretty good success thus far. With the exception of one big wave and a few smaller ones, I have been marching forward.

 

Did your taper off lorazepam follow the "possible taper" you posted upthread? And if so, did it deviate at all from what you posted or is that taper schedule a faithful reproduction of your actual taper?

 

I ask this because the last four cuts down to zero include some hefty (and increasing) % cuts. I would be making these planned last four cuts next month in Dec and based on my experience, cuts this high (30-50%) would send me straight to hell. Should I plan on not being able to get out of bed for an entire month, cancelling all work and holiday plans with the expectation that such high % cuts at sub-0.1mg will induce severe wd sxs? Or were big % drops more tolerable at these low doses as compared to early and mid-taper. For example, I tried a 22% cut mid-taper and it totally destroyed me. Should I expect the 30-50% cuts near the end of your possible taper to be even worse? I have significant work and holiday schedules to plan for December in the upcoming 2 weeks and wondering if I need to hide under the covers for a solid month? I don't think I could bear wd sxs any worse than that 22% cut I did mid-taper, but part of me is hoping that the big jumps you sugest near the end might be easily tolerated since the dose is so low, its basically like jumping from 0 to 0 to 0 to 0 since I would predict that 0.1 mg oral lorazepam results in a bioavailability in the brain that is already less than the EC50 (half-maximal effective concentration) for lorazepam. Another way to say this is that the dose is so low in these last four steps, that is is sub-therapeutic, and GABAergic pathways are really not being activated significantly at any of these last four steps.

 

Thoughts?

[[mo...]]

Laserjet , I am hoping that the last part of your post is correct . I am about the same timeline as you in regards to the end of my taper . But I feel that coming off at 1/16 of a  mg is  such a minuscule amount it should not be a problem . I hope . I am also thinking about instead of just jumping off . Week one 0.0312 mg every other day for 10 days then every three days and so forth . MM

[[On...]]

Laserjet , I am hoping that the last part of your post is correct . I am about the same timeline as you in regards to the end of my taper . But I feel that coming off at 1/16 of a  mg is  such a minuscule amount it should not be a problem . I hope . I am also thinking about instead of just jumping off . Week one 0.0312 mg every other day for 10 days then every three days and so forth . MM

 

When I first found Benzo Buddies back in June, I read every signature taper history I could. I do remember seeing one person onlywho did use this every-other-day dosing at the vey end. I thought it was brilliant. I only wish I had noted the person's name so I could ask questions now, but as I recall, this person had practically no sx after finishing the taper. 

[[Co...]]

MM...that is an interesting taper possibility for the last one or two cuts...I am at my last cut ...(  .312)....I just dropped the afternoon dose of the same yesterday. My last cuts have been following a fairly predictable pattern of some nice mini-windows for a day or a couple of days followed by a pretty tough day or so...followed by more mini- windows....I was just wondering about dropping the morning dose next week, but dragging it out by taking the morning dose every other 2end morning or so until TG. I volunteer in my grandson 's kindergarten and don't want to miss due to s/x...if I can hobble along to TG I would have some days to be miserable and maybe get a little stable before school starts again...but I don't know if the tiny little bit of dust that I am taking is even therapuetic in the least...any thoughts?

[[Co...]]

Jennylyn...re : your Oct. 31 post about crying....I also wonder if it is a 'special ' gift from L. I am at the end of my taper.( ready to jump in a week or so). Crying ..despair...depression and feeling abandonded were big features of my taper...especially at mid taper...I cried from the bottom of my heart every single morning....then it started getting better...now I hardly ever wake up crying and the feeling of abandonment is pretty much gone. ...I am sorry you are in misery...it does let up and go away...even though it seems like it never will...hold on Jenny...you will get to th e other side of this...distraction helps so much.....wishing you windows and peace...cooper

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Mountainman

I see from your sig line you had propranolol akathisia. I got akathisia from metoprolol (another beta blocker similar to propranolol) My symptoms were extreme anxiety, the need to move, shaking legs and once an inability to talk. After 5 trips to the ER I was still not diagnosed accurately and finally figured it out myself. I was wondering what your symptoms were, how long did the akathisia take to develop and how was it diagnosed. Do you feel your akathisia made your benzo taper any more difficult?

Thanks.

Bart

[[ce...]]

Hi Cedartree:

 

I have a couple of questions for you about the "possible taper" you posted upthread. First, I should say that I have been generally following the strategy in your possible ativan taper and have had pretty good success thus far. With the exception of one big wave and a few smaller ones, I have been marching forward.

 

Did your taper off lorazepam follow the "possible taper" you posted upthread? And if so, did it deviate at all from what you posted or is that taper schedule a faithful reproduction of your actual taper?

 

I ask this because the last four cuts down to zero include some hefty (and increasing) % cuts. I would be making these planned last four cuts next month in Dec and based on my experience, cuts this high (30-50%) would send me straight to hell. Should I plan on not being able to get out of bed for an entire month, cancelling all work and holiday plans with the expectation that such high % cuts at sub-0.1mg will induce severe wd sxs? Or were big % drops more tolerable at these low doses as compared to early and mid-taper. For example, I tried a 22% cut mid-taper and it totally destroyed me. Should I expect the 30-50% cuts near the end of your possible taper to be even worse? I have significant work and holiday schedules to plan for December in the upcoming 2 weeks and wondering if I need to hide under the covers for a solid month? I don't think I could bear wd sxs any worse than that 22% cut I did mid-taper, but part of me is hoping that the big jumps you sugest near the end might be easily tolerated since the dose is so low, its basically like jumping from 0 to 0 to 0 to 0 since I would predict that 0.1 mg oral lorazepam results in a bioavailability in the brain that is already less than the EC50 (half-maximal effective concentration) for lorazepam. Another way to say this is that the dose is so low in these last four steps, that is is sub-therapeutic, and GABAergic pathways are really not being activated significantly at any of these last four steps.

 

Thoughts?

Yes, this taper is what I did.  And, the end of my taper was sheer hell, but my body was upset at not having anymore benzo after about 20 years being on benzo's of various kinds.  Its really hard to say how each person will react as everyone's experiences are so varied. Some people say the end of their taper is the easiest and some say its the most difficult. Its all speculation until you go through it.  If you know your body cannot handle certain reductions, then go slower.  Everyone really has to try to create a taper plan that's specific to the individual. It greatly depends on length of use and the amount (mgs) of benzo taken.

 

It was imperative for me to take these smallest doses at the end of my taper.  I just know I couldn't have done it any other way without going completely insane.  Only you will know if its a waste of time or not.  If you get to that point and discontinue your dose, then believe me your body will let you know if you can get away with it within several days to a week.

 

You have some very "scientific" ideas about wd, but I think its less complicated than that. The key is to taper as slowly and as safely as you can so that you can get off benzo's and stay off benzo's for complete healing.  This is a wicked drug and its really that simple. Make a plan that makes sense for you and stick to it. Overthinking the process isn't useful in my opinion. Taper and get free. 

[[mo...]]

Hi Bart , I was diagnosed with Akathisia by my VA psychiatrist . My Akathisia was a side effect from a anti- psychotic drug called Abilify . My symptoms were mostly the urge to keep moving . The first line drug to treat  Akathisia is Propranolol . It worked really well for me . I stopped my Abilify because it gave me extreme insomnia but for some reason I still had the Akathisia after stopping . Probably because I did too  fast of a taper. Propranolol is used in the treatment of PTSD for nightmares , panic attacks and anxiety . I told my doctor that it helped in these areas plus with my withdraw symptoms . I have been taking propranolol it 2 times a day at 5 mg . My doctor told me I could take it 4 times a day if needed to combat my WD SX if needed. I am not sure if the beta blocked is causing your Akathisia unless you suddenly stopped taking it or did a fast taper from it . I suspect it could be withdraw symptoms from the Valium because your so near the end of your taper . I wonder if you switched from the beta blocker your are on to Propranolol would help ? Propranolol is specific for the treatment of Akathisia . The propranolol has been a great drug for me so far. My last visit my doctor gave me script for Remeron to take PRN in case I needed it for insomnia and or or withdraw symptoms . I did read from Dr Ashton's notes that these are two drugs that may help benzo withdraw.MM

[[je...]]

So far so good on the switch. I don't really feel any different. Except for dry mouth. Hoping this continues!

[[...]]

MM

Thanks.

Bart

[[be...]]

Long time no see everyone! I'm sure most of you may not remember or came after me. But I spent a year in here.  Just saying hello and  letting everyone know that  despite how it felt at times,  I healed. Finished my taper 9 months ago. Crazy. It's hard to remember what exactly was so bad about it now. I guess that's a good thing. I hope everyone here is doing alright. Good luck to you and have an awesome day.

 

BDL

[[Bi...]]

Hi Bart , I was diagnosed with Akathisia by my VA psychiatrist . My Akathisia was a side effect from a anti- psychotic drug called Abilify . My symptoms were mostly the urge to keep moving . The first line drug to treat  Akathisia is Propranolol . It worked really well for me . I stopped my Abilify because it gave me extreme insomnia but for some reason I still had the Akathisia after stopping . Probably because I did too  fast of a taper. Propranolol is used in the treatment of PTSD for nightmares , panic attacks and anxiety . I told my doctor that it helped in these areas plus with my withdraw symptoms . I have been taking propranolol it 2 times a day at 5 mg . My doctor told me I could take it 4 times a day if needed to combat my WD SX if needed. I am not sure if the beta blocked is causing your Akathisia unless you suddenly stopped taking it or did a fast taper from it . I suspect it could be withdraw symptoms from the Valium because your so near the end of your taper . I wonder if you switched from the beta blocker your are on to Propranolol would help ? Propranolol is specific for the treatment of Akathisia . The propranolol has been a great drug for me so far. My last visit my doctor gave me script for Remeron to take PRN in case I needed it for insomnia and or or withdraw symptoms . I did read from Dr Ashton's notes that these are two drugs that may help benzo withdraw.MM

 

Propranolol is good stuff.  I take 30mg per day.

[[Ma...]]

Hi BDL,

 

I am so glad you stopped in and that you are doing well

[[Ma...]]

Just a note about akathesia.  The number one, in fact probably the ONLY cause of it, is psych drugs and some other drugs like the one you mentioned Bart.  Apparently, anything that really dampens down the CNS, will cause this when the drug is removed.  It is god awful, I know, because I had it really bad when I got off Lamictal, and it lasted for many, many months.  I was not even aware that is what it was until reading on here for a while.  I could not be still, I was very upset when I had to wait anywhere, like a doctor's office.  I would pace in the doctor's office.  It was really hellish. 

 

I would say it lasted a good 6 months.  Then after that, I had a mental issue with being confined, I think from having the physical aka, even though it was gone, I would get incredibly anxious about being stuck somewhere where I could not go outside.

 

Abilify has a horrible track record for causing akasthesia.  It is the number one selling drug in the US now (I mean, number one selling non-generic), so this is gonna be a damn epidemic of people with aka when those folks try to get off it.  But any pscyh drug has the potential to cause aka, especially the anti-psychotics.  If you ask me, I think it is downright criminal that these drugs are being used for depression and not pscyhotic like symptoms.  Abilify was on T.V. as an adjunct to anti-depressants urging people to "ask your doctor if abilify is right for you!"    SOOOOO UNETHICAL!

 

"Business ethics" = oxymoron.

 

My aka did go away, but it was a very long time before it did.  But it will go away eventually.  I guess the body needs time to really rebuilt whatever natural ability is destroyed by these horrendous psych drugs.

[[...]]

Hi Mairin

 

Thanks for the info

I've always appreciated your posts

It looks like your taper is going well

 

Bart

[[mo...]]

You are so right about the Abilify Mairin . I really had a time of it in regards to side effects . I started reducing by 0.0312 mg about 4 days ago. I definitely felt some irritability SX when I started but it went away after a few days . Over all I have been doing fairly well at the lower doses . You are getting down there too ! How are you doing at the lower doses ? MM 

[[mo...]]

Mairin or anybody wants to chime in . I was thinking about instead of jumping off at 0.0312 mg  at end of my taper  . I was wondering if it would help if one would take 0.0312 mg every other day for 10 -14 days . Then 0.0312 every 3 days for 10-14 days and so forth . I was wondering if if would help feather out the taper a little more smoothly . We are talking about 1/16 of a mg of Ativan. I will ask my doctor when I see her at the end of the month and post what she said . She seems to be a little benzo wise and has really supported me through my taper . MM

[[...]]

Hi Mountainman,

I see the logic in this and it is an interesting idea.  But, although I have no proof or even evidence to point to, I suspect this would not be a good thing to do.  The reason I think this is because it will make your blood level cycle up and down, over and over, and I suspect that is not a good thing.  Like I said, I have no proof to offer, it is just my hunch. 

[[La...]]

MM:

 

If we are talking about 0.0312mg, then isn't that really 1/32 mg that would be oscillating up and down with your alternate day dose strategy?

[[mo...]]

Yes your right laserjet . I really felt the decrease in dose when I dropped from 0.0635 mg to 0.0312 mg . Very extreme irritability for a few days . I mellowed out after a few days with some nice windows . SG 57 has a really good point . When you alternate and sip doses I think that it could cause some problems . There would not be the same amount of steady drug in the blood stream . I guess you could say that you would be causing inter-dose withdraws ? I can't see jumping off any lower than 0.0312 mg's that is pretty much a minuscule amount . So far for me the lower doses have not been too bad . I think that not having been on a high dose of Ativan has lot to do with it . I'm sure I have some kindling because  like Mairin the first time I came of this drug wasn't too bad at all . There are certainly lots of factors that can effect tapering . Dose , length of time , previous attempts and of course mental health history . I do think from reading some of the posts here that we are far better off than the Valium folks in terms of jumping and maybe post-withdraw . Just because of Ativan's short drug life in the body .So far for me cedartree's plan definitely has worked for me . MM

[[La...]]

Very encouraging post MM. If dropiing from 0.06 to 0.03 only involves a few days of irritability, well, I can live with that. I know these dose values only represent a 0.03mg difference, but it is the relative diference (50% cut) that scares me. Scared or not, I hope to be at that same point as you late next month, notwithstanding and complications in the interim.

 

I am tentaitvely planning to go from 0.035mg to 0.015 mg and jump from there. It is just a plan and my plan keeps changing as this rollercoaster ride evolves. Conceptually, I am hoping/planning to take my last dose this New Years eve with the goal of 2014 being benzo free. It is an important milestone for me, but if I get caught up / slowed down in my taper over the next 6 weeks, I might jump from 0.035mg to keep my goal of no Benzos in 2014.

 

I understand the "throw out the calendar" mentality with regard to tapering, but I also agree with some other posters who say that having a defined obective and plan (that is open to modification along the way) is equally important.

 

Keep us Ativan'ers posted on your progres. Thanks again.