Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[br...]]

Hi Cooper,

 

Thanks for the suggestions.    Throughout my taper, I have never felt stable....but went to the next cut.....and have just continuously felt horrible.  I was holding for so long this time b/c I was hoping to feel stable, for once, before making the next cut.....but months at .125 mgs 2Xs a day have gone by and I still do not feel stable.....just continue to feel horrible.  Am I the only one that is not stabilizing?  Or am I misunderstanding what being stabilized means?  I thought stabilized meant you felt better, more normal, like yourself and not so horribly sick......is that correct? 

 

It's amazing how much a pill the size of a piece of dirt can do to a person.  I took early retirement this past summer hoping I could get my health in check and be able to return to a job at some point.  Unfortunately, at this point, it appears as though I still have a long road ahead of me.  When I first started my taper, I had no idea it would be this bad.....I was naïve enough to think that it would be no big deal and that as I lowered my doses, I would begin to feel better....just like any other medication....and thought that I would be done in 4 to 6 weeks......well, here it is 9 months later, and I'm still going through hell.  It stinks that w/ds x/s wax and wane and last unknown lengths of time.....possibly even years after you jump off. 

 

I have read that some people have permanent damage from benzos..........I hope this not what's going on in my case.  The pharmaceutical companies can come up with this horrible medication....but they can't come up with a remedy that prevents misery and suffering when you stop taking it.  It disgusts me when I see commercials on TV advertising various types of medication that are then followed up with a laundry list of serious, horrid side effects.  I had a dr. who once gave me a script for an arthritis med.....I picked it up at the pharmacy and when I got home, I read the paperwork that the pharmacy gives with the med and in bold capital letters it said, may cause stroke, heart attack, etc, etc.......I thought to myself, I don't think so....and I never took that med.....I destroyed it.  I only wish I had done the same thing with the Lorazepam instead of taking it. 

 

I am so grateful to you and all the BBs for your support and encouragement .  Only others experiencing this firsthand truly understand.  My dad and siblings lend a sympathetic ear and hug me as I cry uncontrollably b/c I feel so sick....it hurts me to know that they hurt too b/c they can't do anything to stop my pain.

 

Cooper, I will definitely check into the books you mentioned......as I don't understand a lot of exactly when or how much to cut to be considered doing it in a healthy way.  I've read things on the internet that say you should taper under a dr's supervision.....but in my experience, I haven't had exactly what I would call supervision from my dr.  I drive 45 minutes one way to my appt.. once every 2 months or so, pay my co-pay, sit in the waiting room for an hour...then see the dr. for 10 minutes...at which point, he tells me I shouldn't be having w/d x/s....writes me a script if I need it....then goes on to the next patient......it's like being on an assembly line and I'm just a product going by on the conveyor belt that he stamps his approval on. 

 

Again, Cooper, many, many thanks to you and all the BBs for all that you have shared with me in trying to help me toward recovery.

 

Much Love & Hugs..... :smitten:    

             

[[La...]]

Brunette:

 

"Am I the only one that is not stabilizing?"

 

No, reading through the threads on BB, you are far from alone in this respect.

 

"Or am I misunderstanding what being stabilized means?"

 

I would agree with your interpretation of stabilized, with the caveat that feeling "better" may only mean slightly better. After a cut, there would be increased wd response to the lower dose, followed by a decrease in wd sxs. However, "better" here is highly relative.

 

"It stinks that w/ds x/s wax and wane and last unknown lengths of time.....possibly even years after you jump off. "

 

"Possibly" is the key term here. While I am still on the taper road, from my extensive readings, I tend to believe conventional wisdom; that is, the smoother one's taper with regard to wd sxs, the smoother and less protracted/severe the post-jump period. In many, but not all, drug histories, it seems there is a common predictor in post-jump success.

 

"I have read that some people have permanent damage from benzos"

 

I would challenge this understanding, at least from a structural perspective. Verfied brain damage has yet to be demonstrated. With regard to permanent psychological damage, I think that the propensity for this phenomenon may be more related to it's incidence pre-benzo in any individual. Those that had relatively healthy psychological faculties going into benzos, are likely to emerge/recover post-benzo with quite a good prognosis.

 

"It disgusts me when I see commercials on TV advertising various types of medication that are then followed up with a laundry list of serious, horrid side effects."

 

ABSOLUTELY.

 

"I've read things on the internet that say you should taper under a dr's supervision"

 

This statement is rooted in protection from legal liability. From my experience, most doctors are less able to supervise a taper adequately as compared to the sum knowledge available on BB.

 

"I drive 45 minutes one way to my appt.. once every 2 months or so, pay my co-pay, sit in the waiting room for an hour...then see the dr. for 10 minutes...at which point, he tells me I shouldn't be having w/d x/s....writes me a script if I need it....then goes on to the next patient......it's like being on an assembly line and I'm just a product going by on the conveyor belt that he stamps his approval on.  "

 

I always pay my Drs in cold hard cash. And my psychiatrist charges an ungodly rate. As a result, I sit with my Drs and talk with them as long as is needed. The dialogue follows a natural unhurried path that covers all the symptoms, concerns, drug reactions, possible paths forwards, and patient/doctor interpretations. This can and has been as long as 90 min. 10 min would never be an adequate length of time for any health concern (of mine).

 

Hope you are feeling better Brunette. You will, in time.

[[br...]]

Hi LaserJet,

 

Thank you so much for your input.  I find this whole ordeal to be so confusing. I never know how or what I should do and as I said in my last post, guidance from my psych dr. is lacking.  I think I'll try to be more aggressive at my next appt. and see where it goes.  If he gets mad and kicks me out, I won't be any worse off than I am now.  The only problem is that in my area (rural setting) there are not many psych drs to choose from and therefore, it takes months to get an appt.  In the last 2 days, I got a new twist to my erratic sleep pattern.....now, I find myself sleeping 9 to 10 hours and when I get up, I still feel crushing fatigue as though I hadn't slept at all and zero energy (not that I had any before, but it is even worse now).  I hope things turn around soon.....even if it's just the least little bit.....just to give me something to hold on to.

 

Thank you so much for your support and encouragement.

 

Much love and hugs......  

[[Co...]]

Just a note...on the positive side of benzo w/d today....

.......yesterday ( not the positive part)....a total return to mid-taper misery...all the s/x ( ANXIETY..near panic....dizziness...d/r....depression...nausea....tinnitis...big hypichondria)....I was completely discouraged ...then

............TODAY...slept really well....woke up HAPPY from happy dream....the morning continued with NO anxiety, hypochondria ( other than what I experienced minimally before benzo) ..no dizziness...no nausea...very very slight agoraphobia ( no real hesitation regarding going to my daughter 's in law for dinner later today).    No thumping heart...no shakiness...

.........I am only writing this to say that we never really know when ( or how which is the crazy making part)  when a window will open up to us We can be in the depths of fear and depression one day....and wake up the next day to something that resembles what we used to know as normal. ....These are the days that keep me moving on instead of giving up. ....Hold on to the little breaks ativan jumpers.  We will all get to the end of this...wishing you all Happy Thanksgiving....and windows.....cooperten

[[br...]]

Hi all,

 

I have gone from bad to worse ......and I haven't even done anything any differently.  The last two days dizziness and extremely severe muscle weakness, fatigue and exhaustion.  I have been holding at .125 mgs 2Xs/day for months waiting for my next psych appt.  Has anyone else had things suddenly turn worse even when you have changed your dosage or done anything any differently?

[[br...]]

oops....I meant to say......has anyone else had things suddenly turn worse even when you HAVEN'T changed your dosage or done anything any differently?

 

Thanks.

[[mr...]]

oops....I meant to say......has anyone else had things suddenly turn worse even when you HAVEN'T changed your dosage or done anything any differently?

 

Thanks.

Yes. Many times. My mom would suffer withdrawals without any reason.

This may explain why some people blame their new or worsening symptoms on something they ate or a supplement or exercise.

My mom would make a great improvement only to see it gone after a week with no changes in dose, food or supplements.

She doesn't exercise anymore, so that isn't the cause either.

It is our body healing and is so discouraging when we wait soooo long for improvements.

Permanent improvements will come in time.

[[br...]]

Thanks, mrtmeo.    In addition to the extreme weakness, fatigue & exhaustion, I now have cog fog and keep feeling like I could pass out any minute.  It's sooooooo horrible.  Last night, I went to my brother and sister-in-law's house and cried for someone to help me......someone to stop the pain......and of course, they were sympathetic but there was nothing they could do to help me.  I'm so frustrated b/c I feel so sick all the time .....and instead of getting better.....I seem to just keep getting worse.  I wish there was a way to make all the pain, misery and suffering stop.  :'( :'( :'( :'( :sick: :(

[[mr...]]

Thanks, mrtmeo.    In addition to the extreme weakness, fatigue & exhaustion, I now have cog fog and keep feeling like I could pass out any minute.  It's sooooooo horrible.  Last night, I went to my brother and sister-in-law's house and cried for someone to help me......someone to stop the pain......and of course, they were sympathetic but there was nothing they could do to help me.  I'm so frustrated b/c I feel so sick all the time .....and instead of getting better.....I seem to just keep getting worse.  I wish there was a way to make all the pain, misery and suffering stop.  :'( :'( :'( :'( :sick: :(

Hi brune,

I see you are getting very close to the end of the taper, Congrats!

I am so sorry u have to go thru so bad this far.

I find that by the time we get past the acute stage, some symptoms disappear and we don't even notice because we have had them for so long.

Please hold on and see if things get better.

 

[[So...]]

Reading this thread is making me very nervous about tapering Ativan!

 

Has it really been horrible for everyone? I mean, like super bad. Are you in constant w/d since it is not a longer acting benzo? Are you able to function between cuts?

 

Should I get back on Klonopin for my taper? I hated Klonopin. It gave me lots of head pressure.

 

Denise 

 

 

[[br...]]

Thanks, mrtmeo. 

 

Nana,

 

Everyone's experience with w/d is unique to them.....so I can't speak for everyone else, but in my case, my taper has not been smooth at all.  I have experienced horrible, excruciating. debilitating w/d x/s throughout my taper.  I actually feel worse now than I did at the beginning of my taper.  Going back to Klonopin is a personal choice.  However, I don't think it really matters what benzo you take, you may still experience w/ds of varying degrees.....or you may be one of the lucky ones who tapers easily.

 

Hoping you will be one of the lucky ones.....

 

 

[[La...]]

Reading this thread is making me very nervous about tapering Ativan!

 

Has it really been horrible for everyone? I mean, like super bad. Are you in constant w/d since it is not a longer acting benzo? Are you able to function between cuts?

 

Denise 

 

Denise:

 

The early and mid-portions of my taper were truly horrific, however, in contrast to many other Ativan'ers, at the lower doses, my taper has been going realyl well. Waves are turning into windows so much, that the waves rarely rear their ugly head and do so for very short periods and are mild. At 0.25mg and below, I felt my old life returning; better sleep, better memory, little cog-fog, much less anxiety, and just overall better health. Early and mid taper I felt like I was so damaged, that my life would eternally be spent in wave after wave. I could not see a bright future in my cards. But at some point, I felt the grip of this addiction loosening and i knew my path was headed in the right direction. At 0.1mg, I feel so close to normal, I am tempted to jump, but I know better.

 

I don't think withdrawing is easy for most people who are physically addicted, whether it is k, a, or v. The key is to develop a good plan for tapering and adjust as necessary. Expectations are very important; I had to abandon some of mine to keep my sanity on this long arduous journey. But I feel I am emerging; and possibly in better shape than when I began this journey. Along the way, I have learned better [anxiety] coping strategies, improved sleep hygiene practices, and stimulus control methods to combat the insomnia for which the Ativan was originally prescribed.

 

I have really been so dedicated/determined to getting better as I refused to let this poison break me. You can do this too.

[[So...]]

Reading this thread is making me very nervous about tapering Ativan!

 

Has it really been horrible for everyone? I mean, like super bad. Are you in constant w/d since it is not a longer acting benzo? Are you able to function between cuts?

 

Denise 

 

Denise:

 

The early and mid-portions of my taper were truly horrific, however, in contrast to many other Ativan'ers, at the lower doses, my taper has been going realyl well. Waves are turning into windows so much, that the waves rarely rear their ugly head and do so for very short periods and are mild. At 0.25mg and below, I felt my old life returning; better sleep, better memory, little cog-fog, much less anxiety, and just overall better health. Early and mid taper I felt like I was so damaged, that my life would eternally be spent in wave after wave. I could not see a bright future in my cards. But at some point, I felt the grip of this addiction loosening and i knew my path was headed in the right direction. At 0.1mg, I feel so close to normal, I am tempted to jump, but I know better.

 

I don't think withdrawing is easy for most people who are physically addicted, whether it is k, a, or v. The key is to develop a good plan for tapering and adjust as necessary. Expectations are very important; I had to abandon some of mine to keep my sanity on this long arduous journey. But I feel I am emerging; and possibly in better shape than when I began this journey. Along the way, I have learned better [anxiety] coping strategies, improved sleep hygiene practices, and stimulus control methods to combat the insomnia for which the Ativan was originally prescribed.

 

I have really been so dedicated/determined to getting better as I refused to let this poison break me. You can do this too.

 

Wow, you tapered quite a bit in just three months! How many days between cuts did you go? Were you tapering 10% at each cut?

 

Denise 

[[aw...]]

There's great deal on Gemini scales at Am-z-n right now. The good ol' model 20, accurate down to about 3 mg ('tho they claim 1) and usually about $50, is on sale for...well, let's just say it's a good price.

 

"I'm dreaming of a wide window...just like the ones I used to know..."         

 

SZ rules!

 

 

aweigh

[[La...]]

Reading this thread is making me very nervous about tapering Ativan!

 

Has it really been horrible for everyone? I mean, like super bad. Are you in constant w/d since it is not a longer acting benzo? Are you able to function between cuts?

 

Denise 

 

 

Wow, you tapered quite a bit in just three months! How many days between cuts did you go? Were you tapering 10% at each cut?

 

Denise 

 

Denise, even at the worst points in my taper, I was not in constant wihdrawal. I always had some level of sxs easing up/windows. Though in early and mid taper, they were short and infrequent. I was always able to function in between cuts, I have to work to support my family and only missed work a few days since August. In between cuts, I drove and went to work, went food shopping, paid bills, cooked meals, etc... There was really no choice for me to do otherwise. But it was very difficult to do these things when sxs were bad.

 

The details of my taper are clearly laid out in my sig. Before I tapered (before BB), I bounced around a bit, as my sig indicates. But once tapering properly, for most cuts, I held for 1 week. I varied the % drop based upon what my body was telling me: how were my sxs at the time?, how well did I fare from the last cut? I would adjust my proposed taper plan (on an Excel sprweadsheet) literally DAILY, based on how I felt at each moment. It was a dynamically evolving plan. On average, I would say my cuts were ~13-15% every 7 days, but exact %s vary, as detailed in my sig. I had to hold longer than 1 week mid taper as I got slammed with sxs, I updosed a bit and things settled down nicely.

 

I am also finding that at the real low doses of Ativan, the % cut guidlines ala Ashton, are not as critical as they are at higher doses. That is, the absolute amount of a cut, plays more of a role. I just dropped 0.03mg lats week which is in the range of what is commonly cut here, but that mass translates into a 22% drop. And my body didnt experience any ill effects from it and I am 5 days into that cut. Earlier in my taper a 20% cut would have pummeled me. 

 

So long as I continue to feel well, I am scheduled to cut down to 0.075mg ativan this Tuesday. I can't wait! 

[[So...]]

There's great deal on Gemini scales at Am-z-n right now. The good ol' model 20, accurate down to about 3 mg ('tho they claim 1) and usually about $50, is on sale for...well, let's just say it's a good price.

 

"I'm dreaming of a wide window...just like the ones I used to know..."         

 

SZ rules!

 

 

aweigh

 

Are the a necessity when tapering Ativan? I haven't started my taper yet. I guess I need to know what to get for it.

 

Denise 

[[So...]]

Reading this thread is making me very nervous about tapering Ativan!

 

Has it really been horrible for everyone? I mean, like super bad. Are you in constant w/d since it is not a longer acting benzo? Are you able to function between cuts?

 

Denise 

 

 

Wow, you tapered quite a bit in just three months! How many days between cuts did you go? Were you tapering 10% at each cut?

 

Denise 

 

Denise, even at the worst points in my taper, I was not in constant wihdrawal. I always had some level of sxs easing up/windows. Though in early and mid taper, they were short and infrequent. I was always able to function in between cuts, I have to work to support my family and only missed work a few days since August. In between cuts, I drove and went to work, went food shopping, paid bills, cooked meals, etc... There was really no choice for me to do otherwise. But it was very difficult to do these things when sxs were bad.

 

The details of my taper are clearly laid out in my sig. Before I tapered (before BB), I bounced around a bit, as my sig indicates. But once tapering properly, for most cuts, I held for 1 week. I varied the % drop based upon what my body was telling me: how were my sxs at the time?, how well did I fare from the last cut? I would adjust my proposed taper plan (on an Excel sprweadsheet) literally DAILY, based on how I felt at each moment. It was a dynamically evolving plan. On average, I would say my cuts were ~13-15% every 7 days, but exact %s vary, as detailed in my sig. I had to hold longer than 1 week mid taper as I got slammed with sxs, I updosed a bit and things settled down nicely.

 

I am also finding that at the real low doses of Ativan, the % cut guidlines ala Ashton, are not as critical as they are at higher doses. That is, the absolute amount of a cut, plays more of a role. I just dropped 0.03mg lats week which is in the range of what is commonly cut here, but that mass translates into a 22% drop. And my body didnt experience any ill effects from it and I am 5 days into that cut. Earlier in my taper a 20% cut would have pummeled me. 

 

So long as I continue to feel well, I am scheduled to cut down to 0.075mg ativan this Tuesday. I can't wait! 

 

Do you have your oral suspension made, or do it yourself with the pills? My pills are .5 mg. i take 4 doses a day.

 

Denise 

[[La...]]

"Do you have your oral suspension made, or do it yourself with the pills? My pills are .5 mg. i take 4 doses a day. "

 

Denise 

 

My local compounding pharmacy prepares the oral suspension at a modest charge. It was a lifesaver for me, though as many here will state, liquid suspensions can be preapred at home. Having my pharmacist do it, took the "work" out of the taper for me, and the specific methods he uses have been empirically validated as evidenced in peer authored publications and in the manufacturer's internal validation studies. His highly accurate scale is also operationally qualified with calibration certification. And the precision of his formulations have been tested using external HPLC.

 

Given these facts about my compounding pharmacist, I was definitely going to put my taper in his hands. 

[[So...]]

"Do you have your oral suspension made, or do it yourself with the pills? My pills are .5 mg. i take 4 doses a day. "

 

Denise 

 

My local compounding pharmacy prepares the oral suspension at a modest charge. It was a lifesaver for me, though as many here will state, liquid suspensions can be preapred at home. Having my pharmacist do it, took the "work" out of the taper for me, and the specific methods he uses have been empirically validated as evidenced in peer authored publications and in the manufacturer's internal validation studies. His highly accurate scale is also operationally qualified with calibration certification. And the precision of his formulations have been tested using external HPLC.

 

Given these facts about my compounding pharmacist, I was definitely going to put my taper in his hands. 

 

Thanks, for your help. I live in a small town, and I checked them all, but none of them do the compounding.

 

I spoke with Birdman and just ordered a scale and the other supplies I will need.

 

Can't wait to get started and get off this crap. I have only been on it for two weeks, and my poor fuzzy brain wants it's life back! 

 

Denise 

[[br...]]

Hi All,

 

Does anyone else who's on a low dose in their taper feel like they're getting worse......mainly, physical x/s?  Haven't changed anything...but In the ilast 4 days, I've just gotten worse and worse......more crushing weakness/fatigue/exhaustion than ever, nausea (not the kind of nausea that feels like you're going to vomit......it feels like an almost constant lingering sick green feeling  :sick:and a sensation under the skin in my arms that feels kinda like mild electric shock mixed with slight burning....don't feel like eating...when I talk, I still have that feeling that I don't have enough air to keep talking and my throat gets tight and raw if I try to keep talking......obsessing that the dr's are missing something and that I'm dying of a disease the dr's haven't caught. Staying up all night b/c I don't feel well.....and then my body crashing and sleeping all day.....then the minute I wake up, immediately feeling horrible.  Don't want to be alone (I live alone) but don't want to bother anyone else b/c then I'm just horribly sick at someone else's house.  Sometimes I feel like I want  someone to hold my hand so I can fall asleep without being scared b/c I'm afraid that if I fall asleep, I won't wake up.  I feel so sick that I think I must have some horrible underlying medical condition, but so far, I have had extensive medical testing that hasn't turned up anything significant.  Just keep thinking, "why am so sick" and "why can't I find a dr. who can figure out why I'm sick and help me" :'(.      Is it possible that all of this is my body trying to adjust to the lower amount of Lorazepam that it's getting?  :'( :'( :'( :sick:  

 

 

[[La...]]

Is it possible that all of this is my body trying to adjust to the lower amount of Lorazepam that it's getting?

 

Yes.

[[br...]]

Thanks, LaserJet. :smitten:   It's so frustrating to have barely enough energy to get from room to room or to take a shower.  Then lying down but still feeling horrible.....and feeling like my body won't calm down.  Is there any way of knowing for sure that this is happening b/c of tapering off med?  Most of the time, I feel just as bad when I take my med as I do between doses......so I'm getting any relief.  Does it help if you take depression med like Zoloft, etc?  My dr. prescribed Zoloft but I couldn't take it b/c it made me feel like I couldn't breath. 

[[aw...]]

BrunetteScorpio:

Unfortunately, I pretty much agree with Laserjet. The symptoms you describe may be due to the large, sudden changes in your dosage. Perhaps if you could return to the last daily dose that you felt OK on, your symptoms would improve a lot. It's important to take your dose at even time intervals.

Personally, I would avoid anti-depressant meds while trying to taper from a benzo.

 

Aweigh

[[La...]]

"Is there any way of knowing for sure that this is happening b/c of tapering off med?  Most of the time, I feel just as bad when I take my med as I do between doses."

 

There are no certainties in this life, but given my similar experience tapering this same drug, I would wager an awful lot, that this is happening to you because of the taper. And yes, since mid taper, I feel just as bad when I take my dose as do between doses. It gives zero relief.

 

:'(

[[La...]]

"Is there any way of knowing for sure that this is happening b/c of tapering off med?  Most of the time, I feel just as bad when I take my med as I do between doses."

 

There are no certainties in this life, but given my similar experience tapering this same drug, I would wager an awful lot, that this is happening to you because of the taper. And yes, since mid taper, I feel just as bad when I take my dose as do between doses. It gives zero relief.

 

:'(