Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[be...]]

Letsgetthisdone, your pills are all .5mg. The gram weight per pill is not the same as the milligram dose strength inside of it. In order to dry cut these, you can just cut whatever percentage off the weight...and the same percentage will come off your dose.

 

For example, if you are starting at .5mg/.606g and cutting 10% (.05mg/.061g), drop .061g off your total weight of pill. This will make you land at .45mg and a new dose weight of approximately .545g. Ldbenzohelp is bringing up an excellent point about accuracy of weight - it’s downright impossible to get this perfect with a cheapo scale at the low doses. However, many here and across the forum have dry cut all the way down and been successful using these close approximations. If you find that you are extra sensitive to cuts as you go lower, the liquid titration may be something you need to look into. It is absolutely more precise.

 

Best wishes and I hope my explanation isn’t confusing! All others, feel free to chime in if you can bring clarity.

[[...]]

Hi Friends,

 

Reading the last few questions and answers about dry and liquid tapering, I imagine it can seem very confusing.  PLEASE DON'T GET FRUSTRATED. I had to study both options for a long time before I decided what to do.  (It was a good activity while holding).  A couple of friends, who are good at math and science, helped me think it through before starting.

 

I'll post a link again to a computer application developed by Jim Hawk, a BB member from Switzerland.  I found his README FIRST sections for both liquid and dry tapering to be quite helpful for getting an overview.  Later you can ask about techniques for doing measurements or how to do your own calculations.

 

http://benzo.alwaysdata.net/

 

I had to put a lot of time thinking about it in the beginning. But it really has become routine, "like brushing my teeth."

 

Don't worry, even those of us who felt challenged figured out the micro-tapering thing. As a visual person, I found practicing with the materials helpful. Daily Liquid Micro Tapering has made all the difference for me in being able to minimize withdrawal symptoms.

 

Luey

 

 

[[Gi...]]

I dissolve my 0.5 mg pill in 5 ml vodka (80 proof).  Then I add 49 ml of water.  5 ml is only 1 tsp, so my alcohol intake is a fifth of a tsp per day.  This was easiest for me. 

 

Hi Gingermint, 

 

Did you mean to say you dissolve a 0.5mg pill in 1ml of vodka? And add 49ml of water.

 

That would make an easy 0.01mg/ml solution to work with.

 

A ratio of 1:2:8  is what I learned from Jim Hawk and Builder. And it's even less alcohol. Makes it very easy to calculate.

 

I hope you feel better soon!

 

Luey

 

Yes Luey, that's  my formula. One ml of vodka not five.  That was a typo on my part. (Today has not been a good day.) It's  quick to make, shelf stable and easily titrated to whatever dose I want.  What dose I was on at any given time determined what size syringes I used.  It works for me and is very portable for traveling.  Still, I  look forward to being off the end of the year and the real healing beginning.  I know it won't be easy but tapering for four years and feeling lousy much of the time hasn't been easy either.

 

This now seven week wave I'm in is the result of tapering .00005 mg twice a week from Jan 1st to April 30th.  I was doing ok with it until that last cut then I was slammed with symptoms. 

 

 

[[Bi...]]

Hello Everyone,

I’m feeling reflective tonight. Though this journey has been extraordinarily difficult, it has for me become a spiritual awakening. My life began to change three years ago before I had any idea what was wrong with me when I started looking at life differently and chose to look on the bright side.

Now while I am tapering I have had severe symptoms mixed with astonishing vivid experiences. I feel more alive today than I have in over a decade - even when I am in a wave.

I’m getting so close to zero. I took another dose reduction a few days ago down from .375 to .25. I’m feeling pins and needles in the soles of my feet, mild tinnitus, and fractured sleep. But I’m not depressed. Praise the Lord!

This time I’m choosing to look at my symptoms as just “hyper sensitivity.” I am just really very much alive. So much that my feet are tingling.

I’ve found that the seasons where I consciously try to stay positive are easier for me than the seasons where I do not. I’m thinking positively that this cut will be easier than the others.

Looking forward to the day I can say I am not taking any drugs!

 

 

[[ld...]]

Hi Luey,

 

Could you please elaborate on the ratio you mentioned? I'm not understanding what the three numbers represent.

 

Thanks!

LD

[[ld...]]

HI BB,

 

Does anyone with depression and anxiety feel the negative thoughts return during the taper as part of their w/d symptoms? Almost like the Ativan treats the depression. I know benzos are a treatment for anxiety, and I know anxiety and depression are closely associated. THIS is what tricks my brain. Is it really my underlying disease that I'm feeling or w/d symptoms???

 

LD

[[...]]

Bibsjo, I admire your being able to see this as a spiritual journey.  So many times I have thought for myself there is nothing spiritual about it.  I did, however, have to keep believing the suffering wasn't the "real me." Always having a thread of hope has/is helping me get through it. 

 

LD: . The 1:2:8 ratio just refers to 1mg tablet Ativan, 2ml vodka and 8ml water. (A total of 10ml liquid). Using a base of 10 for liquid tapering makes the conversions of mg. to ml straight-forward.

 

I know what you mean wondering if symptoms are from the underlying condition or withdrawal. For me there are similarities, but the depression/anxiety is so much worse.  Neither of them are easy.  I hope tuning into your body will help you to determine the difference.  I had to address the depression, a real bio-chemical illness, first.

 

Hang in there through this difficult wave. I hope you feel better again this evening to get a break from the symptoms.

 

Luey

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Ap...]]

Hello Everyone,

I’m feeling reflective tonight. Though this journey has been extraordinarily difficult, it has for me become a spiritual awakening. My life began to change three years ago before I had any idea what was wrong with me when I started looking at life differently and chose to look on the bright side.

Now while I am tapering I have had severe symptoms mixed with astonishing vivid experiences. I feel more alive today than I have in over a decade - even when I am in a wave.

I’m getting so close to zero. I took another dose reduction a few days ago down from .375 to .25. I’m feeling pins and needles in the soles of my feet, mild tinnitus, and fractured sleep. But I’m not depressed. Praise the Lord!

This time I’m choosing to look at my symptoms as just “hyper sensitivity.” I am just really very much alive. So much that my feet are tingling.

I’ve found that the seasons where I consciously try to stay positive are easier for me than the seasons where I do not. I’m thinking positively that this cut will be easier than the others.

Looking forward to the day I can say I am not taking any drugs!

 

Bibs, this is really great. I've struggled with this for the last 15 years or so. I want more than anything to understand how to "look on the bright side" and how to have a more positive mindset. I had some major health issues when I was 23 and I believe that even in my life is was put me on the path of "looking on the dark side". My hope is that once I'm free of A I can work with my therapist to help me progress my change in outlook. Thank you for the reminder that it is most certainly in our control if we just work at it.

[[Gi...]]

Bib,

 

I have embraced your "look on the bright side" philosophy.  On Thursday I had a terrible wave all day, worst in a long time.  I told myself that the worse my symptoms the more healing is taking place.  Friday I had a window all day long.  Today minor wd sx.  Thank you for pointing out that we all have the option to put a positive spin on any situation.

[[Le...]]

Hi beautyfromashes - Thank you so much for that very helpful explanation!

[[...]]

Hi ldbenzohelp and All:

 

ldbenzohelp wanted me to show how to do calculations for a DLMT plan.  I used her current dose of 0.15mgs with a 5% reduction every 9 days for the example. Please feel free to ask questions or let me know if you see any mistakes.

 

Daily Liquid Micro Taper (DLMT) Calculation

 

EXAMPLE:

Current Dose: 0.15mg

Planned Reduction: 5% (.05) Every 9 Days

Solution: 0.5mg tablet : 1ml vodka : 49ml water (50ml total liquid)

Solution Concentration: .01mg  = 1ml

 

1) Multiply Current Dose by Planned Reduction Percentage

      0.15mg x .05  = .0075mg (cut amount)

 

2) Divide the cut amount by the days:

      .0075mg / 9  =  .0008mg.  (daily reduction)

 

3) Multiply x 100 to convert mgs to mls for a .01mg = 1ml solution.

    .0008mg. =  .08ml. 

 

Daily Taper Plan

 

0.15mg. (15ml)  minus .0008mg. (.08ml)  = .1492mg (14.92ml)

 

Day #1  15.00ml.        (.15mg)

Day #2  14.92ml        (.149mg)

Day #3.  14.84ml.        (.148mg)

Day #4  14.76ml        (.147mg)

Day #5.  14.68ml.        (.146mg)

etc.

 

*This is a set daily reduction.  Decrease or increase your cuts depending on your symptoms.

 

I hope this might help anybody who is interested.

 

Luey

 

 

 

 

 

[[ld...]]

Thanks Luey!

[[Ap...]]

YES! Thank you Luey for that. Just become more clearer to me. I bought all of the supplies last night via Amazon, suppose to be here today. Plan is to see if I can get stable with adding back my mid day dose. If not I'll try to updose slightly and if that doesn't work I'm going to liquid. I'm getting pretty stressed out with the lack of confidence in my scale. Would be much less stressful to just pull that plunger back.

 

Another question, after making the 50ml solution, will that stay good for a few days or do you need to remake it everyday?

 

 

[[Ap...]]

Luey

Just to confirm, does this look right to you? I know this is significantly faster than normal DLMT'rs but I don't seem to be having a problem with the speed that I'm going at, its just the anxiety from the lack of confidence in the dry cutting at this level. My goal is to just keep up the same pace unless there is some other reason that switching to DLMT would force me to slow way down that I'm not seeing.This example below is actually a bit slower than my plan for the end, I was going to go .2, .15, .1, .5, walk off.

 

 

Current Dose:         0.175 mg

Planned Reduction: 20%

Reduction Frequency 7 days

Solution: 0.5mg tablet : 1ml vodka : 49ml water (50ml total liquid)

Solution Concentration: .01mg = 1ml

 

1) Multiply Current Dose by Planned Reduction Percentage

0.035 mg

 

2) Divide the cut amount by the days:

0.0050 mg

 

3) Multiply x 100 to convert mgs to mls for a .01mg = 1ml solution.

0.50 ml

 

Daily Taper Plan

 

Day 1 17.5         ml .175mg

Day 2 17.00 ml .170mg

Day 3 16.50 ml .165mg

Day 4 16.00 ml .160mg

Day 5 15.50 ml .155mg

Day 6 15.00 ml .150mg

Day 7 14.50 ml .145mg

[[...]]

Hi April10,

 

I checked your math and came up with the same numbers as you. Your calculations and plan look good.

 

Increments of five are easier to read on the syringe, so that's a plus of your current plan.

 

I make enough solution to last for 7-10 days and store it at room temperature in a mason jar- no problems.  It's nice not to have to make a solution everyday.

 

The "right" DLMT plan is one that allows you to reduce a small amount everyday with minimal symptoms.  I let go of percentages a long time ago.

 

Each night I put my full daily amount into a glass measuring cup and top it off with water.  Then for each dose for the next 24 hours I drink 1/3 of the cup.  It really makes it easier. 

 

You are going to do great!  Keep us posted and please don't hesitate to ask questions.  I am happy to help anyone going through this!

 

Luey

 

 

[[po...]]

JuJU I saw a FB picture of me at 53. Six years has taken a toll on my body. The Ambien was like a daily glass of milk. I slept 8 hours and then went my daily but I was hooked. I could not even travel without a dose count. Then 1 dose of Wellbutrin F my life up and I wound up on 2 Benzos. One is down. Luey said take a break and regroup some.  So Thursday is my 30 days off Ativan. So now the 1mg of Xanax starts. But I cannot find that dry cutting xanax group. I do NOT want to go to You Tube for those horror stories. I hope this site re-org doesn't mess this tight group up. I got saved here. Goodnight. Powerball.

[[Wa...]]

Hello all,

Very glad to find this great resource of caring folks😀 This was my intro, and was invited to join this thread.

 

I’ve been taking Lorazepam .5mg, once daily, or .25 twice daily, consistently now for about two months, after a huge spike in anxiety. I have a great pdoc who I’ve seen for PTSD(law enforcement 27 years) who just put me on Zoloft, gradually upping me up to 50mg daily to avoid side effect hell. I’ve been on that dose for exactly two weeks, and it seems to be slowly starting to work.

 

The last week I’ve noticed that my lorazepam dose times are almost identical daily..my body tells me so! I’ve also noticed that now, I’m getting some stomach discomfort and a touch of nausea until the next dose kicks in. I put it together a few days ago that my ‘Anxiety symptoms” are potentially intradose symptoms, which scares the crap out of me. Fortunately, my current low dose seems to be holding me (barely), but when I tried to taper down to .25mg, it was not happening. 

 

My doc also gave me clonodine at a tiny dose to help with the ‘fight/flight’ sensation I get in the mornings.

 

I’m going to ask to be transitioned to diazepam and the taper off lorazapam.

-would anyone reading this who has completed this with my lower dose jump,in and tell me what I might expect?

-would anyone give me some guidance on the crossover or try again in a straight taper?

-also scared about anxiety coming back strong after taper, but maybe Zoloft will have kicked in by then.

 

I truly appreciate any help folks. I’m scared about this.

 

Update 6/22 at 0700am- woke up terrible fight or flight in stomach, aches in back, stomach upset and anxious as hell.

My last dose was yesterday at 0930 (.5). Just took .25 and feeling better, so I know this is intradose wd for sure. :'(

So scared this has happened, had no idea I would become dependent. This taper is really going to be a journey...

[[Ju...]]

Welcome Wanttheoldme,

 

I am so sorry you are having a rough time. I understand your frustration at being dependent after such a short time.  This can be a scary process but you are in the right place. Tapering from Lorazepam is very doable.

 

Have you read the Ashton Manual yet? I would highly recommend that be your first place to start.

If I am reading right you reduced from .75 to .25 That is a very big reduction. This is much faster than what Ashton recommends- 5-10% off your current dose every 7-10 days.

 

We are all so different in how we react to these drugs. Those on this thread chose not to switch over and are tapering from Lorazepam. Some are dry cutting pills, some are doing liquid Daily taper. I am using a Compounded liquid from a pharmacy. How we go about getting off the drug is a very personal decision.

 

I chose to not cross over for a number of reasons. I was switched from Xanax to L in the beginning and it was a process I did not want to repeat.  I already know how my body reacts to this drug.  So was not eager to change again. I did not want to take more time for a transition and I wanted to move forward with my taper. 

 

If you look back through some of the post you will see many are very close to being done with their taper. Powerball started at 4 mg and reduced Dry cutting pills and 30 days ago is Ativan free. Luey also started at a high dose, using a liquid and is getting close. Beauty was short term use low dose, dry cutting and is very close to being done as is April10th. I am around your same dose you are and I am making progress and know I will be off this drug.

 

In the beginning my doses were all over the place. I was experiencing interdose withdrawal.  I split my doses in three.  This has worked for me. I eased into this split. Myself or others can chime in with more details on getting your doses split. I stabilized for a bit and began my taper.

 

I am glad you are here. Hang in there. Ask questions. We are all here to support each other through this process.

 

JuJuBi

 

[[Ju...]]

Powerball,

 

Congratulations on 30 days!

6 years has taken a toll on all of us. Reading you first few sentences look what you have accomplished. And you were able to live your life while doing it. You are well on your way to being free of these drugs.  I do think it was good that you took a break. 

I wish I could help find the group for you. I know nothing about tapering Xanax. But you know we are here for you to support you through this.

 

[[ld...]]

Hi all,

 

Just checking in. It's been a bad week. I dropped 20% one week ago, from 0.022g (0.1766 - 0.1842mg) to 0.017g (0.1371 - 0.1445mg). This was a 20% drop. Didn't feel great last week. It was too much, I think, but who knows b/c of life factors?  Saturday, I switched over to DLMT to try and be more accurate. I'm still at 0.1446mg (14.46mL). And yesterday and today have been the worst! Just curious, when any of you switched from dry cut to liquid taper, did you have days of misery??? If so, why? Dose is the same. I had a couple BB check my numbers.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

LD

[[...]]

Powerball, Great to hear from you- your youth will return  . Best wishes for start of the X micro-taper.  Hang with us, your known group.  It's just another benzo right?  Maybe it's more potent so maybe you'll need to go slower.

 

Tech,  Good to hear from you, you're getting so close!!!

 

Committed, Are you there?  I'm going to send you a pm.

 

ld, What do you think about going back to the dose where you last had some good days?  Then the liquid will allow you to taper more slowly. Maybe you're one of the people who needs to keep your percents very low.  I have heard a tiny minority struggle with liquid, the majority report a much easier micro-taper.  Listen to your body.

 

Welcome WantTheOldMe,  I think we all want to get back to "the old me!" Or at least to a new and successfully benzo free me.

 

Wishing everyone moments of peace,

 

Luey

 

Good day to everyone here,

 

 

[[Ju...]]

ld

 

Sorry to see you are having such a rough time of it.

 

I had no problem but then I used a Compounded liquid which I think was a little stronger or at least hit me faster.

Most that go to the liquid taper find it easier. For me anytime there is a change it can cause stress and things can flare up.

 

Luey may be on to something. It looks like you've had trouble since your last drop from .18 to .14.  20% is more than Ashton recommends.  You have a couple choices. You can try holding out for a few more days to see if things improve and you can stabilize.  Or go back to where you felt better or something in between closer to the 5-10% recommended.  Stabilize and start your liquid taper again.

 

You may need to take things a little slower.  I know the feeling of wanting off this drug. But sometimes we need to slow down and let our CNS and bodies settle.

 

Hang in there.

 

[[Wa...]]

Jujubi,

Thanks for words of encouragement. I did read the Ashton manual.

I have a couple of noob questions..sorry.

I don’t have a scale but imagine that’s the only way to taper correctly?

CT would probably be a very bad idea?

I’m going to have to ask about weights so I do it correctly.

My tablets are 1milligram which I always break in half or quarters. Some days when I feel really anxious I would take .5at once, and then try to push through the day with nothing else. Sometimes I would take.25 twice. Never took more than .75.

I am really worried about this taper as I’m fairly sure my anxiety now is largely dependence , but not 100%, so that fear of tapering and still having crippling anxiety is a dark thought.

Sorry, kind of babbling I know, but today has been roughest in awhile.

Thanks for the support...

 

[[Ap...]]

Jujubi,

Thanks for words of encouragement. I did read the Ashton manual.

I have a couple of noob questions..sorry.

I don’t have a scale but imagine that’s the only way to taper correctly?

CT would probably be a very bad idea?

I’m going to have to ask about weights so I do it correctly.

My tablets are 1milligram which I always break in half or quarters. Some days when I feel really anxious I would take .5at once, and then try to push through the day with nothing else. Sometimes I would take.25 twice. Never took more than .75.

I am really worried about this taper as I’m fairly sure my anxiety now is largely dependence , but not 100%, so that fear of tapering and still having crippling anxiety is a dark thought.

Sorry, kind of babbling I know, but today has been roughest in awhile.

Thanks for the support...

 

Wanttheoldme, the quickest thing you need to do to get rid of your current misery is get on a consistent dose asap. You need to find the dose that stabilizes you then you can think more clearly to put together a plan. It looks like .75 was your highest dose so you may want to start there. With ativan's short half life you need to take about 3 doses per day (IE 3x a .25mg dose) to keep it consistent in your blood. If I were you I'd take one of those 1mg pills you have, break it in quarters (just eye ball it until you have a scale) and start taking 3 of the quarters per day. Your number one job right now is to get stable.

 

You will want to buy two things off of amazon, the Gemini milligram scale and the Equadose pill splitter.

 

Most would strongly advise against c/t.

 

I'm on the backend of the taper and will give you some comforting news....the crazyness before I started the taper was significantly harder than the taper itself. When you are dosing at all sorts of different levels each day it is extremely hard on your nervous system. I have faith that once you get stabilized and going on your taper you will be (cross your fingers) past the worst part.

[[Gi...]]

ld

 

Sorry to see you are having such a rough time of it.

 

I had no problem but then I used a Compounded liquid which I think was a little stronger or at least hit me faster.

Most that go to the liquid taper find it easier. For me anytime there is a change it can cause stress and things can flare up.

 

Luey may be on to something. It looks like you've had trouble since your last drop from .18 to .14.  20% is more than Ashton recommends.  You have a couple choices. You can try holding out for a few more days to see if things improve and you can stabilize.  Or go back to where you felt better or something in between closer to the 5-10% recommended.  Stabilize and start your liquid taper again.

 

You may need to take things a little slower.  I know the feeling of wanting off this drug. But sometimes we need to slow down and let our CNS and bodies settle.

 

Hang in there.

ID,

I agree with what JuJubi says.  These last two days may not be because of the change to liquid, it could just be more wd from your 20% cut.

 

From Jan 1 to April 30 I cut .00005mg twice a week.  That's  a TOTAL of 1% cut in 4 months.  I had symptoms but they were manageable until my April 30th cut.  Then began a 7 week wave that was awful.  Last Wed I had a beautiful window, felt normal.  Next day I was hit with the worst wave I've had in ages.  I've been much better since then. 

 

A small updose might be helpful so you can start from stability.  That or hang on longer until sx start easing off.  Pay attention to what you eat, I cannot have large amounts of sugar or artificial sweetners while tapering.  I get an awful wave when I do.

 

You can do this, it's a learning process along the way, but definitely doable and then you'll have your life back. G