Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[po...]]

I AM POSTING THIS BRAND NEW ARTICLE FROM THE NEW YORKER, THE BYLINE IS THERE. FASCINATING.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/04/08/the-challenge-of-going-off-psychiatric-drugs?utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Magazine_Daily_040119&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bdcc6eb24c17c3610e4df48&user_id=49362588&esrc=&utm_term=TNY_Daily

 

pOWERBALL

[[...]]

Hi Powerball (and anyone else sharing this Ativan thread),

 

I was hoping to meet some people on this thread who are also taking a relatively high dose of Ativan so we can exchange experiences and support each other.

 

I am trying to celebrate the small victories (even though its difficult for someone like me as I just want to be back to my healthy self). You made me feel good about my progress so far as I know I have a long way to go and have been suffering with some difficult symptoms.

 

You sound like you are doing well on the medications you are taking which I know can be such a relief after suffering.  If I knew there was no danger in taking the Ativan long-term I would just keep taking it.  But it seems clear that it causes a physical dependency that can lead to more serious problems.  Knowing about these problems and the fact that I find myself addicted, I am determined to get off of it if I can, trying to accept it will likely take a long time.

 

I understand your requirement to sleep especially when needing to show up for work.  So far I am keeping my night time dose higher so I can sleep but hoping I can eventually taper off of it too and somehow sleep.  Proactively, I am researching time release melatonin.  I am retired so I could suffer through some sleep problems, but in any case going without sleep greatly diminishes ability to function and quality of life.  I empathize with you and hope little by little we can find a way to taper off the benzos and still sleep.

 

I also am taking Lamictal and have accepted I will likely need to take something for severe depression for the rest of my life.

 

Anyway, good to meet you here. I support you in your journey and doing the best thing for yourself one day at a time.   

 

I hope we can all support each other on this Ativan thread, cheering each other on in our journeys to be free of Benzos. 

 

Blessings to you and anyone trying to taper off Ativan.  We can do it!

 

Luey

[[te...]]

Hi all , haven’t posted in a bit . Wondering if anyone sees a cycle . I have a string of good days then back to achey every we’re , no sleep anxious to name a few ?

Bless us all

[[Fi...]]

Luey and powerball, feel free to rant and vent on this ativan board as we lean on each other for supports!

 

getting off the benzo is definitely the right decision.  whatever you think the ativan is helping now, whether it's insomnia or anxiety, those sxs will only get worse down the road.  it seems like you guys already did quite a lot of research and are doing really well on your tapers!  congrats!

even though i was never at higher dosage, but i can attest to that things do get better as you come down on dosage, both physically and psychologically. Don't get discouraged, have a positive attitude, taper at a speed comfortable to you, and take it one day at a time.  i also recommend to split and spread your dosage through out the day, and taper via DLMT when you can. 

Sierra gives great advice and she is very enthusiastic about helping others.  if you have any questions and concerns, pls don't hesitate to ask her and/or me!

oh, one more thing, try not to read too much into horrid blog.  leave those to the people further along in taper or done with withdrawals. do not project their experience of taper to your own.

 

tech21 - when i was doing cut and hold taper, i definitely see a clear cycle. i would experience 2 ok days immediately after the cut, followed by 6 days of intense sxs with little sleep, then one peaceful day of rest before my next cut.  the whole cycle would repeat every time i cut. after i switched to daily taper and at lower dosage, i'm feeling a lot better with few mild sxs and lessen day time interdose withdrawals. the cycle becomes less pronounced.

[[...]]

Thanks to all on the Ativan Support Thread!

 

I really need it right now!  I am grateful to find a small supportive group and hope I can offer support to those of you who I have "met" so far in the last couple days.  And of course to any others contributing here both giving and receiving help.  My first time ever to join an on-line support group! And my first time ever to find myself dependent on a substance and the uncomfortable process of withdrawal.

 

Tech21,

 

Congratulations on your progress so far, I feel the difficulties of going up and down- what they call waves and windows here on BB.

 

The patterns I have noticed seem to be a couple of things:  I start out the week going fairly strong in terms of taking care of responsibilities, exercise, etc.  By the end of the week I start to crash and have to rest completely for two or three days, with fatigue and my worst symptom nausea.  My other pattern seems directly related to tapering- as I go down on my doses since reaching 3& 1/8mgs., I'm starting to feel the drops even though small using DLMT.  Other than that it doesn't feel very linear except weekly ups and downs.

 

FisherK. Thanks for your kind words of support.  It really means a lot from both you and Sierra.  I appreciate the suggestion to not look at the horror stories on here, its hard enough as it is.  Wanting to keep as much hope as possible.

 

I am here to help keep this support thread going.  I need the support right now.  Good news is I have had three fairly good days in a row on hold, If I feel good by next week, I am going to try to continue the slow DLMT process.

 

Blessings to you all,

 

Luey

 

[[Fi...]]

you will likely experience a lot of sleepless night as you taper down, as most people do here on the forum. dont get discouraged if you find yourself lacking in the sleep department. 

 

i had few month of inconsistent, very little and poor quality sleep.  but as i come down on dose, a lot of those sleeps returned.  Ativan suppresses REM and deep sleep.  i'm now feel more rested after sleep and getting lots of dreams (sometimes can be bad...).  during those days of little sleeps, i find doing meditation, developing a good sleep hygiene and taking melatonin really helped me.

 

i have 6 bottles of melatonin of different brands and concentration stocked in my house. i find the one that helps the most is the LifeExtension IR/XR 1.5mg.  it's got both the immediately release and extended release component.  it lasts a good 7 hours for me.  i recommend to give that a try.

 

wish everyone  a smooth taper!

[[...]]

Thanks Fisher K,

 

I appreciate your advice on the Melatonin Brand to help with sleep.  Awesome it is working for you.  I'll check it out if the two other extended release versions I have purchased don't work if the time comes. 

 

So far I have been keeping my evening dose higher which helps with sleep but soon I want to see if I can start taking small amounts off my nightly dose. 

 

Another friend of mine uses books on tape or buddhist talks and it seems they help her fall asleep.  I tried it once and found I had nodded off somewhere into the talk.

 

It looks like you are doing great on your taper!  Thanks for supporting people like me who have a longer way to go.

 

Blessings,

 

Luey

[[Fi...]]

LuEy, your name is there again

 

i recommend to reduce evenly across your doses all throughout your taper.  I made my mistake of tapering my daytime dose first, fearing that my sleep will suffer.  but my sleep did suffer regardless, even with my night time dose intact.  not only my sleep suffered, i was experiencing more and more of the daytime interdose withdrawals.  just keep in mind as you come down the dosage.

 

best luck to you!!

[[...]]

Hi Fisher,

 

Haha, I don't know why I keep signing "LuCy". weird- neither Lucy or Luey are even close to my real name. 

 

Thanks for sharing your experience.  I have already tapered significantly more from my daytime dose(s) than my night time dose so at this point I probably won't make a radical change unless symptoms require it. 

 

I have dropped from 4mgs. to 1.25mgs total daytime dose.  In the p.m I have dropped from 2mg. to 1.75.  (Total taper amount so far: 6mg. to 3mg.) Luckily tapering more from the daytime dose has been working for me so far in that I am sleeping well and keeping daytime symptoms at bay as long as I hold and go slowly.  Sleep is so important to me and I want to keep sleeping well as long as I can.

 

It also has been working better for me to take one dose in the a.m. and one dose in the p.m. although I know others report they do better if they spread out three or four doses throughout the day. I'll probably stay with this as long as it keeps working to feel the best I can in the process.

 

So far my challenge has not been interdose withdrawal symptoms, but feeling more of my two main symptoms of nausea and fatigue as I try to drop lower.  Since 3.25mgs, I have needed to slow down, hold more often and switch to DLMT. 

 

I have been holding this week and feel so much better than a week ago!  I have had more energy to exercise, socialize, eat well, do spring cleaning etc.  The thought of starting to drop again makes me a bit nervous,  but I am determined to move forward.

 

When I do start to taper again, hopefully in a few days, I plan to slowly try to DLMT off both the total daytime and night-time doses simultaneously. 

 

It seems like this process requires regular readjustments. 

 

Thanks again for your support!  Always wishing you success and ease in your journey.

 

LuEy

[[te...]]

fisherk

If you dont mind me asking how are you tappering , by what method?

I am filing and weighing my 3 doses and as the pill gets smaller its become very difficult.

my scale keeps jumping all over the place.

I also get only 3 hours a sleep at night... and can never nap.

Lisa

[[po...]]

You need to weigh each pill you are going to cut. and then cut proportionally. I discovered their weights are all over the place I take 4 mg all at night and believe it not a cup of coffee around noon has reduced my interdose withdrawal about 90% or more. My current system is to cut .002 every third day. I don't even want to know how long that will take I just need my brain to recover slowly and adapt to preserve my sleep with a slow taper and remember to practice what I learned from the 6 week CBT-I which I recently completed. Powerball

[[Fi...]]

i used to do cut and hold method by weighing on 0.001g scale.  it became very inconsistent and difficult at low dose.  so i switched to liquid titration. i find it surprisingly easy and accurate. I highly recommend this method.  pls see quote from sierra below

 

Since you need the benzo evenly distributed in liquid for consistent dosing, it's best to make a solution.  Ativan is soluble in either propylene glycol or ethanol (I use 80 proof vodka), and then can be further diluted with distilled water. 

 

Here's the method builder (the titration pro buddy) taught me:

 

      .5mg tablet dissolved in 1ml vodka + 49ml distilled water = 50ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)     

 

      1mg tablet dissolved in 2ml vodka + 98ml distilled water = 100ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)

 

      2mg tablet dissolved in 4ml vodka + 196ml distilled water = 200ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio)

 

Depending on the mg size pill you have, select from the above calculations. You'll also need a few 10ml oral syringes.  I use a glass mason jar to keep the solution in and store it in the refrigerator.  I give it a good shake before each dose (I'm paranoid it's going to precipitate out of solution).  Rinse the syringe & you're good to go for next time.  I'll make enough to last about 5 days to a week - depends on where I am in my dosing schedule, so varies. 

 

The greater dilution allows for improved accuracy at smaller increments, so continued reductions are no problem.  Well, at least no problem from a measuring standpoint. 

 

You could also ask your doctor to prescribe liquid lorazepam instead of making it yourself.

 

I hope this helps.  I'd encourage you to visit the Titration board too.

 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

i also want to share my experience of both the cut and hold and DLMT with you guys. i hope this can be of some help! i posted this few days back and i will cut paste below...

 

for the past 10 days, i did micro tapering from 0.25mg to 0.15mg ativan at the rate of  0.01mg per day (equivalent of 1mg V per 10 days).  The 10 days prior to this, i tapered from 0.35mg to 0.25mg via cut and hold method (also equivalent of 1mg V per 10 days). these are all done with one single night time dose.

 

10 days cut and hold:

first couple days of mild to moderate sxs immediately after cut, followed by 6 days of pretty intense suffering. during this time, i experienced many sleepless nights, intense anxiety, tremor, daytime interdose withdrawals,  heightened BP and HR, new sxs such as burning skins, , and many other sxs. this was followed by 1-2 days of peaceful days before i continue taper again.

 

10 days of  micro taper:

mild to moderate sxs EVERYDAY!! moderate sxs at 5-6 days of consecutive cuts.  sleep and anxiety are significantly improved.  interdose withdrawal is lessened.  feels to me sxs are most physical than mental.

 

with all other variables the same, i can say with confidence that the DLMT made the world of difference!  I'm a shorter term user.  The rate of tapering obviously is individually based.  however, once you find the rate that is tolerable to you without dragging too long, stick to it. i feel like my body is getting used to the reduction everyday and feels better at lower dosage.

[[te...]]

Fisher k , I am also tapering Ativan daily but file and weigh , I am very low now at 0.37 by pill weight which is equal to 2.5 mg Valium . I am finding it hard to weigh to get accurate weight at small doses . But the liquid is so hard to understand .

[[si...]]

Fisher k , I am also tapering Ativan daily but file and weigh , I am very low now at 0.37 by pill weight which is equal to 2.5 mg Valium . I am finding it hard to weigh to get accurate weight at small doses . But the liquid is so hard to understand .

 

Hi Lisa,

 

I thought you were at .37mg of A, which is far different from the associated tablet weight.  I was calculating based on that.  If you're at the A equivalent of V, that's .25mg A, since 1mg A = 10mg V.  If this is all correct now, just replace .37mg with .25mg and you're good to go.  Creating the liquid A solution becomes easy once you practice the process first a few times using water to familiarize yourself. 

 

Alternatively, you can ask your doctor for a prescription of liquid A, so you don't have to become a kitchen chemist.

 

To get a better scale reading at the really low weights, try placing a nickel on the scale with the small weighing bowl and tare it.  Then weigh your tablet powder.  This process should improve reading accuracy.

 

xo,

sierra 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

i would highly recommend switching to DLMT.  i was a bit hesitant at first, but quickly realized it's not as difficult as i first imagined, and also much more accurate.

 

first buy yourself a few 10ml syringe and a 8 oz glass mason jar.  if youre at .25mg ativan, the easiest way is to dissolve two 0.5mg tablet into 2ml of volka, then dilute it by adding 98ml of water.  this will give you the 0.01mg/ml solution.

 

lets say if your next dosage is at 0.245mg ativan (not sure your rate),  24.5ml of the prepare solution will give you the exact amount you need.  this way you wont ever have to deal with the physical weight of the pill again. it will work the same even the pharmacy change the generic of the pill.

 

oh, refrigerate the remaining and it will last you 4 days, before mixing the next batch! and always stir it up nicely before drawing!

 

[[po...]]

The nickel trick is so helpful Sierra! when I get to a lower dose on my 2mg pill I will have to revisit my options for accuracy. Only once did I cut too much and had too many. sxs. Steady as it goes. I start my new job on Monday and feel very confident my tapering routine and symptoms are under control. I am thinking very positively. I have not been on the Ativan that long either. Powerball

[[si...]]

Hi Everyone!

 

Congratulations on the new job, powerball!  The positivity and comfort you've developed to tapering will serve you well!  Always listen to your body and adjust accordingly.  I think each of us has our own unique tapering pace we discover by trial and error just where it is.  It's not the elimination of sxs, but where they are tolerable so you may remain functional while tapering and smoothly move forward.  Glad you found the nickel (or dime) trick helpful.

 

How're you doing Luey?

 

FisherK - You are SO close!!!  Thanks for making the DLMT instructions easier to understand than I did! 

 

Lisa (tech21) - Whichever method you find most comfortable will be the right one for you.  Both FisherK and I can help you through learning the DLMT, as can many other buddies.  It seems complicated, but once you do it a few times, gets a lot easier.

 

Hope you all have a great Sunday!!!

 

xo,

sierra 

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Sierra,

 

Thanks for asking.  I hate to complain but I guess that's part of what support groups are for.  My last three days have not been going well.  I've mainly been in bed feeling sick with nausea and vomiting. Its weird because I had such a good five days leading up to this and was starting to feel hopeful that I had stabilized.  This pattern seems to hit me for two or three days every week whether I am tapering or not.

 

Sometimes I question if what I am experiencing is withdrawal but I don't contact my psych nurse practitioner because I don't want her to prescribe even more medication. I know my stomach symptoms are a mystery to her anyway.  I get sick like this when I am depressed, but I don't feel depressed now.  Really this all feels so scary to me wondering if I will ever be well.  I have an appointment in another month and I prefer to try to wait this out to see how I am by then.

 

Right now I am just trying to get through the day, always hoping tomorrow will be better.  I'm on hold indefinitely for now at 3mg. Ativan until I have at least a solid couple of weeks without throwing up.

 

Blessings to you all and thanks for your support,

 

Luey

[[te...]]

Lieu ,

Same thing happens to me . Every 7 to 9 days even if I didn’t cut hardley at all . Lasts a few days then good days again . Can’t make any sense of it .

[[si...]]

Hi Luey,

 

I'm so sorry you're nauseous.  That's one of the few sxs I haven't (yet) experienced.  I'm unsure too if it's related to Ativan withdrawals or not, especially since you've been holding awhile and it has yet to resolve.  You'll reach a broader audience by posting this concern to the Support During Withdrawal forum.  I'd encourage you to do so. 

 

Please continue to have faith.  This is a very difficult process, but we all heal.  It just takes time and perseverance.  You will get there, day by day, hour by hour, moment by moment.

 

Sending you lots of healing love!

 

xo,

sierra 

[[Fi...]]

luey,

 

did you get checked if you have other GI issues?  did you ever have endoscopy or colonoscapy? blood test normal?  sometimes a simple acid reflex problem can cause nausea and vomitting.  of course depression and anxiety is a major trigger as well, since there are more gaba receptors in the gut than anywhere else.  but, must rule everything out before connecting the dots to benzo withdrawals. 

 

the importance of gut-brain axis can not be ignored. it can be the root cause of mental health issue.  in my case, I suspect my years of use of Proton Pump Inhibitor for treating chronic acid reflex problem is the primary reason i suffered the panic disorder, thus the start of my benzo nightmare.

 

best wishes to everyone!

[[...]]

Hi Tech, Sierra and Fisher K,

 

First I want to say I am appreciative of all of you- to have others share this experience with ideas and support, it helps to not feel so alone in the middle of what seems so crazy.

 

@Tech,

Yes isn't it weird how feeling bad goes in cycles.  For you it sounds like every 7 or 9 days.  Do you see any patterns in your life or tapering or is just a mystery?  For me its almost always near the end of the week and all or part of the weekend.  I ask myself is it because I am more structured and busy at the beginning of each week?  Do I push myself too hard?  Or is this just the pattern of my body- hopefully going through healing? I do know that I am going to hold until this stops happening for a least a couple of weeks in a row.

 

On another topic, if you don't mind me asking- how long did you take Ativan for?  I see you are on a small amount and yet still suffering.  It seems the amount doesn't have that much to do with how difficult this is.  Everyone's experience seems so different and yet similar. 

 

@Sierra and Fisher,  I have posted, searched and read about the nausea and vomiting both here and on the Ashton manual.  I guess it may not be one of the more common symptoms, but it seems there are others who experience it.  I have gone to a gastroenterologist who didn't find anything. I have significantly changed my diet and that seems to help.  A past psych nurse thought for sure it was a manifestation in my body of anxiety.  Even main stream medicine seem to be understanding more and more about the brain/gut relationship. And on days when I feel good, I don't have any stomach issues.  Thankfully the good days each week are in the majority.

 

The only thing I can figure out to do about these patterns and symptoms is to hold and take care of myself.

 

I don't expect anyone here to give me answers or even advice.  I do appreciate being able to talk about it, share experiences, support and learn from each other- to not feel so isolated. I appreciate having a small group to exchange information with as it seems easy to get lost on the bigger forum topics.  I guess the most important thing is to have supportive people who will "listen" understand and not judge.

 

On a positive note- I feel good again today!  (-:  I hope you all are doing well and look forward to hearing about each of your journeys.

 

Many blessings,

 

Luey

 

 

 

[[po...]]

I feel like I am on an ultra slow withdrawal from 4 mg but I guess I have only been on withdrawal for 7 days. First day at work was fine. Actually exhilarating going to a new place after almost 5 years at another job. This is a big job so I need to be on my A game. So maybe ultra slow is the way to go. Powerball

[[te...]]

Could someone please help me . I take my 0.5 mg of Ativan and file it till I get to a weight on the scale of 0.37 my pill itself before I start filing weighs 0.61 . I am not sure if I am getting filler or Ativan at this point . I use that 0.37 and divided it into 3 doses . Could someone tell me how to make a days worth of liquid so I can try to see if I can do it . Then do I just use a syringe and pull out 0.37 and swallow it ? I am sorry but do very confused and nervous I have been tapering wrong for all this time maybe that why I have two good weeks then back to bad . This is awful just feel like quitting this nightmare .