Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[Fi...]]

hi all,

 

Im glad finding this forum dedicated to Ativan.  I needed some help with my taper.

 

im a short term user and spend 8 weeks of my total 11 weeks on ativan tapering from 1.5mg, giving by my pdoc the end of last year.  i'm currently holding at .35mg of night  time only ativan, and having hard time during day time hours.  Im pretty certain im going through the interdose withdrawals every day. Im using the dry cutting method with a scale.  how do you suggest to split the dose evenly through out the day? do i just go straight to 0.1 am, 0.1 afternoon and 0.15 night?  wouldn't i be getting a pretty bad withdraw from the large night time dosage drop? 

since its short term use, would you recommend i just tough it out for 4 weeks to be done of or switch to slow liquid taper?  if i have to, what is the best way to do ativan taper in small quantity like this?

 

thanks for all the help. best wishes to all!

 

[[si...]]

Hi FisherK,

 

I'd bet you're going through interdose withdrawals too.  Once I began tapering, I spread my daily dose out to 4x/day.  That made my reductions a lot smoother by avoiding interdose withdrawals.  The lower doses are still going to be difficult, so no need to also deal with interdose withdrawals.

 

Since you've been able to reduce by dry cutting with a scale, keep going with that method & spread out your doses to 3 or 4 times per day.  I think you'll feel a lot better.  I would avoid "toughing it out" at all costs.  Benzos make our lives hell enough without us helping them. 

 

Here's my current dosing schedule for reference:

   

                                5am    .1mg

                              11am  .1mg

                                5pm    .1mg

                              11pm  .12mg

   

I've found tapering much more comfortable doing a symptoms based taper instead of one with a predetermined schedule. 

 

If you find the scale becomes inaccurate at lower doses, you can always learn to do a liquid microtaper - lots of buddies to help. 

 

Hope this helps a little. 

 

xo,

sierra 

 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

hi sierra 7,

what solution do you use to microtaper? just water? can you go over how it's done?

also, how do you plan to reduce your 0.1mg  day time dose down further? do you dry cut or with liquid? do you mix one batch a day and dose with syringe each time?

I saw a post where the person dissolve t the daily dose in a water bottle and drinks it through out the day at random.

 

 

thanks for the help!

 

 

 

 

 

[[si...]]

Hi FisherK,

 

Since you need the benzo evenly distributed in liquid for consistent dosing, it's best to make a solution.  Ativan is soluble in either propylene glycol or ethanol (I use 80 proof vodka), and then can be further diluted with distilled water. 

 

Here's the method builder (the titration pro buddy) taught me:

 

      .5mg tablet dissolved in 1ml vodka + 49ml distilled water = 50ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)     

 

      1mg tablet dissolved in 2ml vodka + 98ml distilled water = 100ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)

 

      2mg tablet dissolved in 4ml vodka + 196ml distilled water = 200ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio)

 

Depending on the mg size pill you have, select from the above calculations. You'll also need a few 10ml oral syringes.  I use a glass mason jar to keep the solution in and store it in the refrigerator.  I give it a good shake before each dose (I'm paranoid it's going to precipitate out of solution).  Rinse the syringe & you're good to go for next time.  I'll make enough to last about 5 days to a week - depends on where I am in my dosing schedule, so varies. 

 

The greater dilution allows for improved accuracy at smaller increments, so continued reductions are no problem.  Well, at least no problem from a measuring standpoint. 

 

You could also ask your doctor to prescribe liquid lorazepam instead of making it yourself.

 

I hope this helps.  I'd encourage you to visit the Titration board too.

 

xo,

sierra 

 

[[Fi...]]

wow, thanks for the clarification!

 

i do have a question!  i thought the alcohol is a big no no during taper! 

 

[[si...]]

A shot is about 40mls, so at your dose it'll take you months to have a decent drink!   

[[Fi...]]

hahaha, that certainly lighten the mood a bit

[[si...]]

hi,

just wondering how are you planning to lower your dose? at some point you will have to eliminate the morning/afternoon dose and keep the night time dose only correct? or  you intend to keep it evenly distributed all the way to the end? ashton manual is advocating cutting 0.1 mg ativan equivalent toward the end of taper per 1-2 weeks. are you going with this recommendation or going slower? 

noticed you cut another .02 today! prayers to you for a smooth ride here on out!

 

Hi FisherK!

 

My plan is to cut evenly across all 4 dosings, keeping the bedtime dose heaviest.  I'm not following the Ashton method of cutting a dose out, so I can hopefully avoid interdose withdrawals.  It just seems too brutal to cut a dose out.  I mean, we should keep our blood serum levels as even as possible all the way down.  At least, that's my reasoning. 

 

The benefit of tapering on A over V is a faster feedback loop - if we cut too fast, we'll know it within a few days.  I'm using that to my advantage by cutting a little every other day, then holding a day to see how well I tolerate the cut.  If it's too much, I'll hold for a bit longer.  If I feel good, I'll do another small cut the following day.  This is called a 'symptoms based taper' instead of adhering to a schedule.  I think it's superior since we're all different and it allows you to control your taper based on what your body is telling you.

 

I hope this makes sense.  Keep asking good questions of everyone.  So many helpful folks here.  Take the suggestions that work for you and stay in charge of your taper. 

 

Thanks so much for the well wishes - so far, so good!

 

Keep your eye on the prize.  We will get there! 

 

Have a great evening!

 

sierra 

[[si...]]

do you feel the 0.1mg day time dose? do you worry that once that gets low enough it will just be non therapeutic? i'm so afraid that if i split my night time dose, i will lose my sleep...

do you take other meds or supplements to help with the taper? I tried buspar today, it actually made thing much worse for me...

 

The way I feel .1mg daytime doses is by not feeling those roller coaster interdose withdrawals.  They don't remove all sxs, but they make for a much smoother, more steady ride. 

 

Once cuts get to the point where they're technically considered "non-therapeutic" they may still help carry you through with a placebo effect.  There are many scientific studies proving that the placebo effect works and can be just as effective (or more), so I'm going to just believe and taper down to fumes. 

 

I was worried about not getting enough sleep by distributing doses throughout the day, since I originally took a single dose at bedtime, as prescribed.  At a certain point, if you're going to withdraw, you have to accept the sxs thrown at you and roll with it.  Fighting can be in vain and actually becomes counterproductive, by wasting your energy.  We should prepare the best we're able.  So, I read up on sleep hygiene and have been seeing a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist.  Basically, you teach yourself coping skills needed to replace the original purpose of the benzos.  Implement and practice them over and over again until they become habit.

 

My sleep took a hit when I initially went to 4x/day, but has overall improved.  When I'd wake up at 2am with racing heart, I'd start breathing deeply and try to slow my breath down, telling myself it's the benzos, I'm ok, relax.  Oftentimes, that would work and I'd fall back asleep, other times it would calm me down some, but I couldn't go back to sleep, so I'd grab a book and go read on the couch. 

 

            Acceptance   

 

            Distraction                                   

 

            Coping Skills

 

I don't take other meds or supplements.  My belief is our bodies and brains are trying to heal themselves from being assaulted by medications.  Throwing more at them just gets in the way and may delay healing.  We got ourselves here by taking a pill to "fix" us, right?  However, if you have a blood test showing you're deficient in vitamin D, for example, then yes, definitely supplement with vitamin D.  Or, if you have high blood pressure prior to taking benzos, then that medication is probably necessary too. 

 

What's worked thus far for me is a healthy high protein diet, no sugar, no caffeine, don't skip meals, lots of water, no processed carbs....  Lots of good self-care - exercise (don't overdo it), fresh air, positive attitude, a good support system...

 

I really hope this helps you!  We will be better and stronger by getting through this and beating the benzos!

 

Carpe diem!

 

sierra 

[[Fi...]]

thank you so much for your information and encouragement! i will try to split my night time dose and see if that lessens my day time sx!

[[Fi...]]

can anyone chime in about the what their experience is regarding to the minimum "therapeutic" dose is for ativan?  when youre at the low dose, what dosage does everyone have the hardest time after a taper? i would imaging there's got to be a dosage where if one go under, you're pretty much at acute withdraw.

 

pray for healing, everyone...

[[si...]]

can anyone chime in about the what their experience is regarding to the minimum "therapeutic" dose is for ativan?  when youre at the low dose, what dosage does everyone have the hardest time after a taper? i would imaging there's got to be a dosage where if one go under, you're pretty much at acute withdraw.

 

pray for healing, everyone...

 

Hey FisherK,

 

Guess it's just you and me for now... 

 

I recall reading somewhere that 1mg V (equivalent to .1mg A) is considered the minimum for a therapeutic dose.  So going lower than that would technically put you into acute.

 

I'm guessing those who're already at tolerance, yet dosing above therapeutic, would already be in acute too?

 

sierra 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

haha,

 

I guess I cat give that a try. on my next taper, I also to move 0.05mg Ativan to morning and see if that can help with my interdose withdrawals issue!

 

 

how are you feeling with your new cut? wish all is good

[[si...]]

So far, so good on the last little cut.    Overall, I feel much better at these lower doses.  Like my body and brain are happier to be getting rid of being drugged.  Yesterday, I went on a 4 mile mountain run before the rain hit.  That felt really good (the exercise has helped my sleep, I believe).

 

I'm dropping to .38mg today & will hold there for a day or two or longer, if sxs flare up too much. 

 

How're you doing? 

 

I hope spreading your dose out can alleviate some of the interdose withdrawals.  The active duration of A is around 6-8 hours, so dosing 2x/day may not provide enough cover, but really, who knows?  I hope it gives you some relief.  Maybe try it for a few days and see if your body adapts.  If not, change course.  We all metabolize at different rates and are really our own lab rats in tapering. 

 

The only good study tapering benzos is Dr. Ashton's, done back in the 1990s when I was a kid.  Ha!  For sure though, we know more than the majority of doctors in tapering benzos.  Sad but true.  Last week when I told my doctor what I was doing, he was intrigued and wanted to learn more, so we spent another 15 minutes with me telling him details of how I am tapering.  He was unaware of so much.  Lucky though, he's supportive and hopefully will be able to help future patients better.

 

Have a great day & keep posting your progress!

 

sierra 

[[An...]]

wow, thanks for the clarification!

 

i do have a question!  i thought the alcohol is a big no no during

hi all,

 

Im glad finding this forum dedicated to Ativan.  I needed some help with my taper.

 

im a short term user and spend 8 weeks of my total 11 weeks on ativan tapering from 1.5mg, giving by my pdoc the end of last year.  i'm currently holding at .35mg of night  time only ativan, and having hard time during day time hours.  Im pretty certain im going through the interdose withdrawals every day. Im using the dry cutting method with a scale.  how do you suggest to split the dose evenly through out the day? do i just go straight to 0.1 am, 0.1 afternoon and 0.15 night?  wouldn't i be getting a pretty bad withdraw from the large night time dosage drop? 

since its short term use, would you recommend i just tough it out for 4 weeks to be done of or switch to slow liquid taper?  if i have to, what is the best way to do ativan taper in small quantity like this?

 

thanks for all the help. best wishes to all!

 

 

Short term use, i recommend toughing it out and  getting off quickly. Dont use more than you need as it will cause further dependanc and damage  Felt better off ativan. Indont think tapering for shirt term helpful, and neither are holds.

[[Fi...]]

good to hear youre doing great after a cut. I wish I have the energy to run 4 miles. I used to do mountain bike a lot prior to this struggle. now I just feel too fatigued all day to ride. a moderate exercise will up my sx!

 

with that said, today is a good day for me as well! the best I've been for many weeks, despite still taking only the night time dose!  I feels so good that im thing about make my next cut.  Really want to get this thing over with. not sure how much to cut at the moment, but i really dont want to drag this on for too long, since i'm still on it for fairly short time.  i fear the longer i'm on it, the harder it is for me to get off.  Never felt good this whole time on ativan anyways.

 

youre so lucky to have a doctor that is on board  with your taper. i had to fired my pdoc couple days ago. it's frustrating talking to her. even til now, she does not believe the sx i'm experiencing is due to taper. she believe since i'm only on med for short time, i should not have any problem taking the med off in a couple weeks. i dont know where to look for a benzo-wise pdoc.

 

just wondering what dose the when youre next cut will be?

 

best luck!

[[Fi...]]

@[an...]

 

that's what i'm debating. should I get this over quickly? never a moment felt good on it the whole time. would you consider your taper a quick taper?  how are you handling your withdrawals after jump? it's great to hear that youre feeling better after stopping Ativan.

 

 

thanks for your advice!

[[An...]]

@anxioumama:

 

that's what i'm debating. should I get this over quickly? never a moment felt good on it the whole time. would you consider your taper a quick taper?  how are you handling your withdrawals after jump? it's great to hear that youre feeling better after stopping Ativan.

 

 

thanks for your advice!

 

Inwould consider my taper extremely ridiculously long for having taken it for 2 to 3 weeks. Inthink honestly I wasn't tapering as so much as poisoning myself at different doses for 2 months. I thought it would be good to taper. I was totally out of my mind with ativan anxiety.

 

I feel not great but better than on it. I'm having trouble with sleep and stomach issues. Burning sweat. I'm 10 days out. I suspect itll be hard for me because I was so sensitive to it. I'm waiting.

 

I would get it over with. Theres no reason you couldn't jump very soon, you are so low already. I dont think there's a point in prolonging the inevitable and causing more gaba damage. The fact you are biking is great. You will be fine.

[[si...]]

good to hear youre doing great after a cut. I wish I have the energy to run 4 miles. I used to do mountain bike a lot prior to this struggle. now I just feel too fatigued all day to ride. a moderate exercise will up my sx!

 

with that said, today is a good day for me as well! the best I've been for many weeks, despite still taking only the night time dose!  I feels so good that im thing about make my next cut.  Really want to get this thing over with. not sure how much to cut at the moment, but i really dont want to drag this on for too long, since i'm still on it for fairly short time.  i fear the longer i'm on it, the harder it is for me to get off.  Never felt good this whole time on ativan anyways.

 

youre so lucky to have a doctor that is on board  with your taper. i had to fired my pdoc couple days ago. it's frustrating talking to her. even til now, she does not believe the sx i'm experiencing is due to taper. she believe since i'm only on med for short time, i should not have any problem taking the med off in a couple weeks. i dont know where to look for a benzo-wise pdoc.

 

just wondering what dose the when youre next cut will be?

 

best luck!

 

Hi FisherK!

 

Awesome news that you're feeling better!  Yay!!!  You're such a short timer, if you feel inspired, taper faster.  Daily, or every other day, cuts of, say .01mg, you might consider.  Like I said before, Ativan has a fast feedback loop, so you'll know.  Then adjust, based on how you feel.  That's just a suggestion.  You decide the right path for you - how fast, how slow, when to jump...

 

For me, the exercise helps bleed off anxiety sxs & sleep better.  I try to do it in the mornings.  So much of this is just trial and error to figure out the best path for each of us.

 

You probably have more knowledge than most doctors regarding your taper.  They're necessary for prescription writing, so you have what's necessary to taper. 

 

Today I'm going down to .37mg!  Symptoms are manageable. 

 

Can't wait to be on the other side with Anxiousmama and off the Ativanicide poison!

 

Stay strong & have a great day!

 

sierra 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

hi sierra,

 

sleep has really been compromised  for the past two days, despite having relative minor sx in the day time. i've yet to make any cut, because of this.  benzo is really weird this way. hard to predict....

 

i noticed you're cutting ~.01mg every day. how are feeling so far? are you continuing this way the rest of the way? 

 

wish all is good for everyone!

 

[[si...]]

Hi FisherK,

 

Oh, it's awful not getting enough sleep.  I'm so sorry that's happening to you!

 

Maybe you're experiencing a paradoxical reaction to the A now, and it's keeping you up instead of allowing you to sleep?  That may be something to consider (although you probably have already), especially since you take it at bedtime. 

 

It's such a guessing game sometimes.  Like you said - hard to predict...

 

I'm so glad your daytime sxs are minor.  That's a big win!

 

The overall quality of my sleep has improved the lower I go and I feel so much more myself.  It seems as I taper, different sxs come while others go.  For me, the most debilitating sxs is that feeling of impending doom, like the bottom is falling out and I can't quit crying.  Ugh.  That one hasn't been around for a few weeks and I pray it doesn't return.  It was awful. 

 

Yes, general goal is to go down .01mg/day, so long as I feel pretty good and can keep sxs in check.  We shall see.    Really want to be done taking the Ativanicide poison already, but gotta stay functional. 

 

Tapering is like walking a tight rope with all you have to balance, trying to keep from falling on your face.

 

Glad we're not alone in this challenge.

 

Stay strong everybody!

 

sierra 

 

 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

hi sierra,

at what dosage did you have that impending doom feeling? was it at the beginning of the taper? were you doing the liquid taper at the time? how long did it last for you?

 

anxiety sx and sleeping have always been the biggest issue for me during the taper. 

 

i concur aboutt feeling more myself the lower i go.  feels like i can think more clearly, but with that it also gives me more time to ponder all the what ifs....

 

i followed the ashton taper at the low dosage and took off 0.1mg last night, with it came very little sleep.  other than that its tolerable so far. i know the effect wont fully kick in in a couple day, and hope things wont be too bad.  i know it is be a bit too much of a cut at the low dosage, but i really want to get the poison out of my system as well...

 

wish everyone a smooth ride the rest of the way!

[[si...]]

Hi FisherK,

 

Happy Saturday!

 

So, that horrible impending doom crying my eyes out sxs appeared around .5mg or .6mg, I think, and I was doing the liquid taper by then (prior to that, I was pill crushing and weighing).  The worst of it was about 1/2 day and it generally lasted almost a week.  I was SO unreasonably fearful and agoraphobic too.  It was so strange - like I was possessed or something.  Even at the time it was happening I was like, "Who is this?"  I mean, it was so out of character and I knew it, which even freaked me out more.  My poor husband didn't know what to do with me.    Lucky for me, he just hugged me and told me it would be ok.

 

Yes, there are so many "what ifs" and we can overthink ourselves into paralysis.  At some point, we just need to make our own calculated move after sifting through all the data.  But, doesn't it feel good to be thinking more clearly and more like your pre-medication self?  I'm so happy the fog is lifting for you!

 

Hopefully, your short term use will work in your favor and you'll be able to keep cutting with tolerable sxs.  And if not, there's no shame in slowing it down.  No one wins a medal for going the fastest and they can't take your birthday away if you don't. 

 

I'm sending you well wishes that your .1mg cut goes smoothly.  Keep us posted!

 

Do something distracting and enjoyable this weekend!

 

sierra 

[[Fi...]]

We got ourselves here by taking a pill to "fix" us, right?  However, if you have a blood test showing you're deficient in vitamin D, for example, then yes, definitely supplement with vitamin D. 

 

i was reading your previous response to my question and just realized that you're such a fortuneteller!  my blood work shows that i do have vitamin D deficiency!! should i take vitamin D supplement? I read so many post about how vitamin D rev up the sxs!!  i so afraid to add another to my system....

 

 

[[si...]]

We got ourselves here by taking a pill to "fix" us, right?  However, if you have a blood test showing you're deficient in vitamin D, for example, then yes, definitely supplement with vitamin D. 

 

i was reading your previous response to my question and just realized that you're such a fortuneteller!  my blood work shows that i do have vitamin D deficiency!! should i take vitamin D supplement? I read so many post about how vitamin D rev up the sxs!!  i so afraid to add another to my system....

 

How random that I choose vitamin D as an example! 

 

Maybe consult a dietician to investigate other ways to get vitamin D besides supplements.  Get more sunshine - which is converted into vitamin D by our bodies.  Look up other food sources of vitamin D that you can increase in your diet.  I'd take all those approaches before popping another pill - but that's me.  You do you. 

 

How's that cut feeling?

 

sierra