Tapering off Ativan Support Thread

[[te...]]

Thanks Sierra

Found it . I will be checking in thank you

[[Fi...]]

hi sierra,

today is the third day of my 0.1mg ativan cut off 0.35mg. i wanted to wait at least three days before i give an update.

 

aside from sleeping troubles, the first two days actually went pretty good. the sxs were there but were pretty mild. i was able to work and enjoyed the weekend.

 

today the sxs are a bit more intense than the last two day, but still very tolerable. cross my fingers that things will improve the next few days.

 

how is your taper going?

 

 

 

[[si...]]

Hi tech21, FisherK, and fellow Ativan peeps!

 

Hope everyone got a better night's sleep last night!  What's worked for me is when I wake up in the middle of the night, I try to calm myself down through deep breathing and doing the mindful meditation body scan.  If I don't fully fall back asleep, at least it gets me out of the anxiety of waking up. 

 

Here's an overview:  https://ggia.berkeley.edu/practice/body_scan_meditation

 

If you guys try it, let me know what you think. 

 

Want to share and tips you've found to decrease sxs? 

 

I ran 4 miles yesterday morning, which feels really good.  I truly believe exercise, to whatever level you're capable of, helps healing and diminishes sxs. 

 

Check out how exercise scientifically benefits the brain:

 

FisherK - That's fantastic news about your cut!  Keep listening to your body & keep us posted!

 

tech21 - How're you doing?  I hope sleep is improving!

 

Wishing each of you a fantastic day!

 

sierra 

 

 

[[si...]]

For anyone interested in a daily microtaper, here's a great spreadsheet fellow BB member badsocref kindly created to do the calculating for you:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=152430.0

 

sierra 

[[te...]]

Hi all ,

Had another non sleep night don’t understand this sny more my cut was too small to do this . I seem to see a 2 week pattern , feel ok for that ant of time then back to no sleep and edgy all day .

[[Fi...]]

quick update 6th days after my 0.1mg cut off 0.35mg ativan.

 

i developed a new sx along with this cut.  I now get burning sensations on my neck, back, arms and legs.  they would come whenever i feel a bit of anxious, especially pronounce after shower.  does anyone have this?  how long does it take for this sx to subside?

 

my sleep also suffered after this cut.  i wake up ~3am every night and often will have hard time falling back to sleep. im usually awakened by the burning sensation, night sweat and anxious feeling.  i would put on my headphone and listen to meditation sleep talk. i use the headspace app on my iphone. it helps at time putting me back to sleep, but not always.

 

tech21, i find melatonin helps putting me to sleep, but not sure how effective it is with maintaining it.  you can try melatonin if you have hard time falling asleep.

 

sierra, i find the meditation apps really helpful getting me through hard times. the headspace meditation app i use teaches body scan, noting and visualization techniques. there are also lots other options in app stores. on tough days i would spend hrs on meditation app.

 

wish all speedy recovery

 

 

 

[[si...]]

Hi tech21 & FisherK (& any others are welcome to join in!),

 

I am so sorry you're both having a rough go of it, other than I am not alone.  The sleep stuff sucks.  During the day after, you just end up existing from moment to moment hoping you survive the day.  I know it too well.

 

tech21 - I'm sure you've investigated everything to help with sleep.  I encourage repeating a good sleep hygiene routine over and over again.  It's not a quick fix.  Your body needs to become accustomed to the repetition until sleep happens.  Best you can do is low lights in the evening and calm everything down, avoid stressors and electronics...sorry if you already know this, but it's started working for me after over a month of trying.  I hope you get relief soon.

 

FisherK - Hate that you're waking up so early, but I'm super impressed with your resourcefulness with that app.  I'm going to check it out!  The burning sensation will come and go for me, usually in the evenings, but it's on the palms of my hands and soles of my feet.  Sometimes I'll rub menthol cream on them for the cooling effect (for my feet, I'll put socks on if I need to walk around so the cream doesn't get in the carpet).

 

If you guys haven't already, check out Parker's post on what's happening in your brain (and body).  All these horrid sxs are actually your body healing - which should give us all hope.  Our bodies are trying to recover from the benzo assalt.  Even though sxs are terrible, the fact that it's actually an effect of healing keeps me from completely breaking down.  Here's a link to that post - I reread it often when I need hope:

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66397.0

 

I hope everyone has a better evening!  We will get through this!  Glad you're here! 

 

xo,

sierra 

 

 

 

[[Fi...]]

hi all,

 

i used headspace every day since i started taper. the meditation really helped me tremendously, especially helpful early on during my taper when it was especially difficult.

 

i recently started trial version of another app,  "calm".  its very different,but they are all good in their own rights.

 

however, both of them require yearly subscription fees, which is bummer...  i think these app should be made available for everyone with physical and mental struggles, because i think mindfulness mediation can really be a useful tool to combat or at least making it more tolerable.  maybe have it covered under medical insurance, like they cover all the evil drugs?

[[te...]]

Hi all ,

Another bad night , I hope someone got a good night sleep . Wish we could just have better days this is really getting me down . It’s been a long road and still some to go . Have a hard time excepting the road ahead . Every time I make a 0.001 cut

Wishing everyone well .

Lisa

[[Fi...]]

hi tech21,

 

how long have you been taking ativan prior to your taper? did you start ativan to help with sleep?

 

i've been having really bad sleep problem for the past week as well, after my last cut.  it is miserable! i can sympathized and am so sorry for you.

 

besides your sleep issue, are all other sxs managable?  do you have similar 2 weeks cycle you mentioned whether you take a small cut or a big cut?

 

i hope sleep will return for us soon!

[[si...]]

Hey Lisa - I've been thinking about you and hoping sleep has improved.  Morning exercise, to whatever you're capable of, has really helped my sleep.  How's it going?

 

FisherK - I hope your sxs are calming down from the last cut.  Let us know how you're doing.

 

My big sxs right now is a racing heart, which usually happens later in the day.  It's really uncomfortable, but comes and goes.  I've also been noticing how I so easily get sensory overload when out and about. 

 

I truly believe all these sxs are our CNS healing and trying to regain homeostasis after the benzo assault.  We will get there.  Day by day.  Hour by hour.  Second by second.

 

Stay strong guys! 

 

xo,

sierra 

[[Fi...]]

i'm at 8 days out of my last cut. things have stabilized a bit for me. by that i mean i've returned to my familiar pattern.  however much sleep i get, i would  wake up in sweat, anxious, feeling a bit of down.  this would go away around 10. the sxs return at 130, leave at 4, then return again at 530, and finally subside at 8. 

 

the sxs i'm having are anxiety, poor sleep, sweating, burning on neck, back, arms and legs, blurry vision, irritable, fatigue, tremor and chest tightness.

 

hi sierra- if you have racing heart issue, i would really recommend taking low dose of beta blocker propranolol.  i take 10mg one in the morning and one  at night.  early on during my taper, my heart rate and blood pressure varies wildly.  propranolol really tune it down for me.  it also have anxiolylic effect that helps with physical aspect of sxs.  i will probably start the daily tapers in a couple days. Since we are at similar taper stage, can you go over how you prepare your liquid? how many days do you prepare at once?  do you mix multiple 0.5's in the volka?  thanks so much.

 

yeah... "day by day, hour by hour, second by second".... that about says it

 

 

[[si...]]

Hey FisherK,

 

Thanks for the recommendation of a beta blocker.  I hadn't thought of that.  Will definitely call my doctor about it tomorrow.

 

Here's the daily tapering liquid instructions from an  earlier post...

Hi FisherK,

 

Since you need the benzo evenly distributed in liquid for consistent dosing, it's best to make a solution.  Ativan is soluble in either propylene glycol or ethanol (I use 80 proof vodka), and then can be further diluted with distilled water. 

 

Here's the method builder (the titration pro buddy) taught me:

 

      .5mg tablet dissolved in 1ml vodka + 49ml distilled water = 50ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)     

 

      1mg tablet dissolved in 2ml vodka + 98ml distilled water = 100ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)

 

      2mg tablet dissolved in 4ml vodka + 196ml distilled water = 200ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio)

 

Depending on the mg size pill you have, select from the above calculations. You'll also need a few 10ml oral syringes.  I use a glass mason jar to keep the solution in and store it in the refrigerator.  I give it a good shake before each dose (I'm paranoid it's going to precipitate out of solution).  Rinse the syringe & you're good to go for next time.  I'll make enough to last about 5 days to a week - depends on where I am in my dosing schedule, so varies. 

 

The greater dilution allows for improved accuracy at smaller increments, so continued reductions are no problem.  Well, at least no problem from a measuring standpoint. 

 

You could also ask your doctor to prescribe liquid lorazepam instead of making it yourself.

 

I hope this helps.  I'd encourage you to visit the Titration board too.

 

If you have .5mg tablets, I would probably make a solution using 2 of them.  This will last you about 3-4 days.  Too much longer and the potency of the drug can begin degrading (I have a reference for this somewhere, if you'd like).  You would double each amount in this calculation:

 

.5mg tablet dissolved in 1ml vodka + 49ml distilled water = 50ml Ativan solution (.01mg/ml dose ratio.)

 

So, if you're current daily dose is .25mg, your liquid dose is 25ml.  An easy conversion by just moving the decimal point.  You can plug all the data into that calculator which will give you your daily dosages.

 

I really hope this will make your taper smoother and lessen your sxs!

 

We will get through this!  Stay positive!

 

sierra 

[[Fi...]]

hi all,

the past weekend was a blessing, feeling mostly returned to baseline from my last 0.1mg ativan cut.  even went to the movie after haven't been able to do so for the past 3 months.  even my sleep improved.  i was able to sleep solid 6 hours last night, which is rare for me during whole taper!!  enjoyed my couple days of leveling before getting ready to cut again.  im excited to report that i started my next batch of cuts in daily taper fashion last night.  i will give this a try for the next 10 days.  I'm crossing my finger this will work better for me than the cut and hold method. 

wish everyone great day!

[[si...]]

Hey FisherK,

 

You deserved some relief and I'm so happy you found it!

 

At what rate or increments are you doing your daily taper?  If it's too much you should feel it in a few days.

Then, you can always adjust at a slower rate or smaller increments.  I truly believe listening to your body is key.  Sxs probably won't totally be eliminated, but getting them to a manageable tolerance is ideal.

 

I'm crossing my fingers for you too!  Thanks for sharing the good news!

 

sierra 

[[Fi...]]

hi sierra,

 

i'm hoping it will be somewhat close to my previous cut and method tim line at 0.1 per 10 days.  i cut 0.01 last night. but i also realize, it will be harder at lower dosage. so i'm just trying to feel this out for now. how are you doing with your daily taper? were you able to get your heart rate under control?

 

 

[[si...]]

I think you're approaching the daily tapering in a really smart way.  The .01mg drop you do today should be felt by Friday or Saturday, since Ativan is short acting.  Then, if it feels too much you could hold for a day or two or lower your daily taper to .005mg.  Like I was describing earlier, this should be more like walking down stair steps instead of jumping off a cliff.  Keep us posted!

 

My taper is going well.  My heart rate has mellowed out, so I'm happy with that.  Didn't end up calling my doctor yet.  Right now, the .01mg/day reduction is working really well.  Like you, I'm going to stick with it until sxs get too much. 

 

Have a great rest of your day!

 

sierra 

 

 

[[po...]]

Sierra,

 

Your post was very on point to my own experience. I am on 4mg of Ativan for sleep and I failed when my psychiatrist just bumped me down to 3.5mg. I have a new job and am very stable on my meds cocktail. I have started a micro taper since getting to 3.5 must be sx based and I must be careful. I also just finished 6 weeks of CBT-I (a specialized cbT for insomnia) and it has really helped. For now I am going to live with the afternoon sx since they still seem manageable and they only last about 4 hours. My doc does not support my taper at this time (since I am doing so well), and I was a wreck, but I will continue my slow microtaper. Powerball

[[si...]]

Sierra,

 

Your post was very on point to my own experience. I am on 4mg of Ativan for sleep and I failed when my psychiatrist just bumped me down to 3.5mg. I have a new job and am very stable on my meds cocktail. I have started a micro taper since getting to 3.5 must be sx based and I must be careful. I also just finished 6 weeks of CBT-I (a specialized cbT for insomnia) and it has really helped. For now I am going to live with the afternoon sx since they still seem manageable and they only last about 4 hours. My doc does not support my taper at this time (since I am doing so well), and I was a wreck, but I will continue my slow microtaper. Powerball

 

Hi Powerball,

 

Congratulations on your new job!  I also work, so cannot allow my sxs to get out of control.  I think you'll find a daily microtaper quite manageable so long as your taper rate isn't too fast.  The good news about Ativan is its fast feedback loop: If you taper too fast, you'll know within a few days, so you can slow it down quickly. 

 

It's great you're getting methods to help with sleep that don't include more pills!  I am a huge fan of CBT because the skills are so useful, you just have to be disciplined and practice them daily.  As my doses of Ativan have decreased combined with better sleep hygiene habits, my sleep has improved.

 

At this point, all you need your doc for is to prescribe enough Ativan for you to taper comfortably and not feel rushed.  Most all doctors are sadly ignorant to what a responsible benzo taper involves, though they tend to write prescriptions as if they were candy.  I was never warned by my doctor that a withdrawal might be involved if I chose to stop taking Ativan as prescribed.  The only tip off I got was from the pharmacist - whom I'm eternally grateful to - warning me to begin tapering off before I reached tolerance.

 

The good news is you found this site where you have all the info and support you need to safely and sanely get benzos out of your life! 

 

sierra 

[[...]]

Greetings to others trying to Taper Ativan,

 

This is my first time posting on a specific support group and I am also relatively new to BB.  I am currently holding at 3mg. of Ativan after reducing from 6mg. starting in mid. December.  I was able to go relatively quickly from 6 to 3 &1/4 but since then have been experiencing more symptoms.  It took me over a month to taper from 3&1/8 to 3mg. where I am currently holding because of difficult symptoms. 

 

I currently am taking 1.25 in the morning and 1.75 at night. I have tapered more of the day time dose first because if I don't get enough sleep I can't function and it would make everything worse.

 

I recently started DLMT using Jim Hawk's computerized model with an intention of trying to cut 5% every 14 days while I am still at this relatively high dose, slowing down if I need to.

 

I am interested in hearing from others who are attempting to cut from such a high dose of Ativan or buddies who have successfully completed their Ativan taper and can offer any insight or words of wisdom about getting through to the other end.

 

My main on-going symptom is lack of energy.  I am functioning at a much lower level of energy than I would normally and only try to accomplish a couple of things per day.  I do go to yoga and walk around 3 miles a couple of times each week, but have to be careful or I will get exercise fatigue forcing me to stay in bed for two to four days.  I eat healthy organic whole foods as much as I can, no sugar, coffee, junk food etc.

 

My most upsetting symptom is nausea and vomiting.  Does anyone else struggle with this?  The only thing I have discovered is to hold for several days waiting for it to subside as it is very upsetting and debilitating.  On those days, I tend to despair, feel discouraged and more fearful.

 

I am trying to surrender to so many things: my limited energy, the length of time it seems like this will take, not being able to participate socially or go to cultural events, needing to be in bed by 8pm.  I live by myself and my main support comes from talking to a few supportive friends on the phone.  I am very grateful for their support.

 

I should also mention that I have suffered from episodes of very serious and difficult to treat depression and anxiety in the last eight years.  I am currently on 200mg of Lamictal that helped me get out of a deep depression and at this point, after multiple episodes, I am accepting that I will likely take something for depression for the rest of my life.

 

My psych nurse practitioner thinks Ativan is a good medication, thus the high amount she prescribed for me.  I do think she will keep prescribing Ativan to me and allow me to control my own taper.  I am not planning on sharing the details of DLMT with her at this point. She clearly knows I want to get off of it, but it seems she is not educated about the seriousness of Benzo addiction and withdrawal.

 

Thanks for listening and I welcome any feedback or words of wisdom for my situation.  I hope someday soon I can also be a support to others in the Ativan support thread.

 

Blessings, Patience and Hope to us all,

 

Luey

 

[[si...]]

Welcome, Luey! 

 

Congratulations on reducing from 6mg to 3mgs!  That's a lot!  Your approach to tapering the last half is wise, listening to your symptoms.  Eating well, reducing stress, exercising, drinking plenty of water, avoiding alcohol & caffeine, getting plenty of rest, having a support network, staying positive will help you a lot as you taper.

 

Why did you decide to taper off Ativan?  Did you reach tolerance?

 

The (only) good news about Ativan is it's fast feedback loop - within a few days, you'll know if you're tapering too fast, so can slow it down or, if you feel really good, you could increase your taper rate.  There's no one-size-fits-all, so continue learning what's worked for others, try what you think may work for you and adjust accordingly to create a taper that works for you.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't currently a very active thread.  However, by scrolling through past entries, you'll find Ativan users with similar profiles to yours (see their signatures) and can follow their stories.  I've gleaned learnings from doing just this and have applied them to my own taper.  The Withdrawal Support (during your taper) is a much more frequented thread, so it may be a good idea for you to also post there: http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?board=145.0

 

As many of us here have discovered, our doctors are only good for writing prescriptions.  They seem very capable of getting us hooked on medications, yet clueless as to how to get us off them.  So, the fact that you will have access to enough Ativan to support a comfortable taper rate is great news.  Your doctor really doesn't need to know if you're doing a DLMT or even tapering at all, unless you choose to share that information.

 

I also thought I needed Ativan to sleep.  Afterall, that's why it was originally prescribed to me.  However, in the course of tapering, to avoid interdose withdrawals (Ativan's duration of action is about 6-8 hours from each dose), I started spreading doses out to 4x a day from that single evening dose.  Sleep was affected for a while, but I've gone to a CBT once a week to learn better sleep habits.  With some practice, I've seen marked improvements in both quality and duration of sleep - Ativan had actually been making my sleep worse.  You'll need to find ways to cope with issues for which benzos were originally prescribed.  During your taper is the perfect time to begin.

 

I'm happy you've found BB!  You'll find an amazing amount of information and support here.

 

xo,

sierra 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[...]]

Hi Sierra (and Others on the Ativan Support Thread),

 

Thanks so much for replying to my post.  It helps me a lot to know there is someone out there who understands and supports me.  I have to admit I am envious of the small amount of Ativan you are taking, not to discount your experience, but it reminds me how far I have to go.

 

I took the Ativan for the extreme symptoms of my depression/anxiety which were vomiting, anxiety attacks and the need to get relief from my severe symptoms in the evening, ie. to "knock myself out."

 

I knew all along, although my doctor disagreed with me, that it wasn't a good idea to be taking such a high dose of Ativan. But the symptoms of my depression were so severe, I would have done anything to get relief in the short run, so I took the Ativan knowing I might have to pay for it later.

 

I certainly built a tolerance of the Ativan over time in that I needed to to take an increasing amount to get relief.  But at this time, the 3mgs. I am still taking often give me relief from an upset stomach in the morning (unfortunately it doesn't always work throughout the day) and assure a good night's sleep.

 

It does not seem like a linear process in terms of windows and waves.

 

Splitting my daytime dose of 1 & 1/4 milligrams doesn't really work as well as taking it all at once.  I do have to suffer some minor symptoms of anxiety in the afternoon because of the long time between my morning and evening dose.

 

As soon as I got better from the depression taking Lamictal, I knew I wanted to start tapering and started almost immediately after feeling the depression lift. 

 

Now I am frustrated because I went from half a year of being sick to an unknown amount of time going through withdrawal which is another kind of sickness in itself.

 

It was helpful for you to tell me that Ativan has a "quick feedback loop."  How many good days do you usually wait before continuing on your taper.  My rule for myself at this time is I need to have at least a week of "good" days before I continue.  Last week I only had three out of seven good days so I am on hold for now.

 

I wish someone could give me a solution for the nausea and vomiting.  I have searched the forum but haven't found any members who have found much of a solution.  Maybe holding is the only real solution?

 

Has the withdrawal affected your energy levels?  Mine are significantly reduced.

 

Again, thanks so much for your reply.  I hope we can continue to communicate and also hope some others trying to taper off Ativan will share information, especially others trying to taper off such a high amount. Please let me know how I can support you.  I will certainly celebrate your successes no matter how small.

 

Many Blessings to You,

 

Luey

[[si...]]

Hi Sierra (and Others on the Ativan Support Thread),

 

Thanks so much for replying to my post.  It helps me a lot to know there is someone out there who understands and supports me.  I have to admit I am envious of the small amount of Ativan you are taking, not to discount your experience, but it reminds me how far I have to go.

 

You are not alone, Lucy.  I'm here for you and so are many others.    You may have a long way to go, but it doesn't help overwhelming yourself.  Here and now is all you have control over.  Focus on setting yourself up to be successful now.  You just do one day at a time.  Tapering becomes one of your daily habits, like brushing your teeth.  Before you know it, you'll have climbed the mountain by putting one foot in front of the other.

 

I took the Ativan for the extreme symptoms of my depression/anxiety which were vomiting, anxiety attacks and the need to get relief from my severe symptoms in the evening, ie. to "knock myself out."

 

I knew all along, although my doctor disagreed with me, that it wasn't a good idea to be taking such a high dose of Ativan. But the symptoms of my depression were so severe, I would have done anything to get relief in the short run, so I took the Ativan knowing I might have to pay for it later.

 

I certainly built a tolerance of the Ativan over time in that I needed to to take an increasing amount to get relief.  But at this time, the 3mgs. I am still taking often give me relief from an upset stomach in the morning (unfortunately it doesn't always work throughout the day) and assure a good night's sleep.

 

It does not seem like a linear process in terms of windows and waves.

 

Splitting my daytime dose of 1 & 1/4 milligrams doesn't really work as well as taking it all at once.  I do have to suffer some minor symptoms of anxiety in the afternoon because of the long time between my morning and evening dose.

 

As soon as I got better from the depression taking Lamictal, I knew I wanted to start tapering and started almost immediately after feeling the depression lift. 

 

Now I am frustrated because I went from half a year of being sick to an unknown amount of time going through withdrawal which is another kind of sickness in itself.

 

I know how frustrating this is and completely empathize with you.  In our desperation for relief, we trust our doctors to help us and then we're on our own to undo the damage.  You will persevere and get through this.

 

Dropping 3mg Ativan in 4 months is really fast, so perhaps your body is trying to catch up, hence the resultant Increase in sxs?  Holding or slowing down will hopefully provide you with some stability soon.  I know others recommend trying a small updose to find some stability, which may be worthwhile to consider.  What do you think?

 

It was helpful for you to tell me that Ativan has a "quick feedback loop."  How many good days do you usually wait before continuing on your taper.  My rule for myself at this time is I need to have at least a week of "good" days before I continue.  Last week I only had three out of seven good days so I am on hold for now.

 

I wish someone could give me a solution for the nausea and vomiting.  I have searched the forum but haven't found any members who have found much of a solution.  Maybe holding is the only real solution?

 

I'm so sorry you're experiencing that. I did a quick search of my own and saw someone had decided to c/o to Valium when nausea became an issue with Ativan.  Have you considered that? 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=28240.msg422424#msg422424

 

Has the withdrawal affected your energy levels?  Mine are significantly reduced.

 

Yes, my energy and strength are both depleted as I taper.  It's really pathetic, but I realize it's temporary.  I do what I can everyday to exercise.  I know your yoga will help your healing.  Go easy on yourself.  It's important to remember that we are asking a lot of our brain/body as we taper.  Our energy is being used by our brain/body to regain the homeostasis benzos robbed us of.  It's going to the best use right now. 

 

Again, thanks so much for your reply.  I hope we can continue to communicate and also hope some others trying to taper off Ativan will share information, especially others trying to taper off such a high amount. Please let me know how I can support you.  I will certainly celebrate your successes no matter how small.

 

Many Blessings to You,

 

Lucy

 

It's my pleasure to connect with you, Lucy!  Hopefully other Ativan users will chime in here and offer their perspectives, experiences, support and wise words for you.  You are a gem and I will support you too!

 

Stay strong and at the same time indulge in lots of self care - both will help you heal!

 

xo,

sierra 

 

 

[[...]]

Sierra,  Hahaha, I realized I signed myself Lucy My first smile of the day.  I have to remember that my BB name is Luey.  Thanks for helping me laugh!  p.s. I went back in and edited it!  And thanks so much for all the support- it helps!

[[po...]]

Wow from 6 to 3 mg. I am just trying to get from Ativan 4 to 3.5 first.  To get out of this interdose withdrawal I was tempted to take 1 mg at noon but that would leave me only 3 mg for sleep and right now I just cannot do that. So I know caffeine is to be avoided and I have given up my morning cup, but I had a small cup around noon and my afternoon withdrawal symptoms basically went away! Of course that is just one day, and I need confirmation of that, so will try tomorrow. Unfortunately my taper on my 2mg tab I cut 0.011 up from 0.006 and that was just too much. What was I thinking? Well this is the first time I have done anything like this so now I know why I am reading these posts. Powerball